Labour

[Riccarton3]

15 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

To be honest Corbyn's policies on utilities, transport and the economy aren't hard left. They're in line with many of Labour's sister parties around the globe.

 

His hard left element is his view of politics, international relations and how he deals with the press is hard left and is where many have concerns. 

 

The party is not doing enough quick enough on anti-semitism. There are elements within the party undermining it and yet he does nothing. He's principled but too rigid in his views. That isn't leadership. 

How he deals with the press? How do you deal with the press in this country??

 

International relations -  is it any worse than the simplistic idea we have a special relationship with a nation run by an extremely dangerous egotistical maniac?

 

Anti semitism 'row' -  seems much of this happens on social media,  absolutely rife for manipulation

Edited February 18, 2019 by Riccarton3

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, IMac said:

Read your history books. Resulted in the rise of Blair 

John Smith's death resulted in Blair. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by ri Alban

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 hours ago, Victorian said:

Nationalised key services.    Perfectly reasonable to provide improved srandards,   accountability,   jobs and working conditions.

 

Enlarged state (generally).     Perfectly valid for largely the same reasons.

 

Increased taxation.     Once more... quite valid.     More than ever,   the public sector could be greatly improved via a wholly affordable rise in taxation.    For virtually everyone,    on a progressive basis.       It is no accidental consequence that ths Tories have accustomed people to relatively low taxation over many years.      It is now almost impossible to propose tax rises to people without howls of protest.    But people should begin to be honest with themselves over this matter.     Most people can afford some degree of increased taxes.

 

I don't agree with a wholesale clobbering of the well off per se,    but a well thought out re-balancing of the tax burden is well overdue.

 

If this is HARD LEFT then I'm a herd of giraffes.

 

 

[ri Alban]

Anna Soubray will join them soon 

[Brighton Jambo]

I find the denial on here about anti semitism in labour bewildering and wrong.  Multiple MP’s including many who haven’t left the party declare that it’s rife.  There are numerous examples where labour has not acted swiftly or decisively enough to resolve situations.  And yet people on here claim it’s part of a media conspiracy etc.  By denying the existence of the problem you are part of he problem.  

 

How is every labour voter can’t just declare with one voice than anti semitism will be wiped out, no ifs, buts, threats is beyond me.  To not do so will literally destroy the Labour Party in its current form.  

[doctor jambo]

11 hours ago, Victorian said:

Nationalised key services.    Perfectly reasonable to provide improved srandards,   accountability,   jobs and working conditions.

 

Enlarged state (generally).     Perfectly valid for largely the same reasons.

 

Increased taxation.     Once more... quite valid.     More than ever,   the public sector could be greatly improved via a wholly affordable rise in taxation.    For virtually everyone,    on a progressive basis.       It is no accidental consequence that ths Tories have accustomed people to relatively low taxation over many years.      It is now almost impossible to propose tax rises to people without howls of protest.    But people should begin to be honest with themselves over this matter.     Most people can afford some degree of increased taxes.

 

I don't agree with a wholesale clobbering of the well off per se,    but a well thought out re-balancing of the tax burden is well overdue.

 

If this is HARD LEFT then I'm a herd of giraffes.

We tried most of that before..... it failed and led to economic collapse.

We are NOT low tax ( our top rate is 46%- nearly half)

The thing about income tax is it means you have less to spend.

if I save £1000 per year in tax I spend that - all of it, resulting in more VAT, rise in consumer spending and economic growth.

its difficult to square the circle- it has been well proven that the lower the tax rates, the higher the overall tax take..

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

We tried most of that before..... it failed and led to economic collapse.

We are NOT low tax ( our top rate is 46%- nearly half)

The thing about income tax is it means you have less to spend.

if I save £1000 per year in tax I spend that - all of it, resulting in more VAT, rise in consumer spending and economic growth.

its difficult to square the circle- it has been well proven that the lower the tax rates, the higher the overall tax take..

 

It can be done via a wholesale,  root and branch modernisation of our entire taxation portfolio.     To make so-called progressive taxation progressive in fact.      That includes VAT as well.     The VAT system is well overdue a thorough redesign.     If there's enough will and honesty then it can be made to happen.

[doctor jambo]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It can be done via a wholesale,  root and branch modernisation of our entire taxation portfolio.     To make so-called progressive taxation progressive in fact.      That includes VAT as well.     The VAT system is well overdue a thorough redesign.     If there's enough will and honesty then it can be made to happen.

VAT certainly needs increased as it is unavoidable......

I would also expand it to cover food as we have an obesity epidemic, though possibly at a lower rate

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

VAT certainly needs increased as it is unavoidable......

I would also expand it to cover food as we have an obesity epidemic, though possibly at a lower rate

 

Precisely.    It could do with a well researched and thought out modernisation.

 

 

[Victorian]

Is anyone any further forward regarding what the 'Independent Group' actually stand for?     We know they stand against anti-semitism,   as would any right minded person.     So they share those values with their ex-PLP colleagues,   including Corbyn.     We know they stand for a second referendum,   which is something that remains on the table within Labour's strategy,    albeit insisting on one now is at odds with democratically decided Labour Party conference policy.

 

But generally,    on a broader based platform of policy,   including the full domestic programme,   what do these people stand for,    beyond the nebulous,   meaningless soundbites about them all "sharing the same values",   etc?     

 

How do they propose to recruit disaffected Tory MPs to their group?     Because I believe they will soon find out that their 'shared values' will not conform to the value set of your typical Tory.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Victorian

[Thunderstruck]

31 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Precisely.    It could do with a well researched and thought out modernisation.

 

 

 

Under EU rules, every member country must apply VAT and at a minimum of 15% (certain per-agreed goods can be taxed at lower levels). This is all in the interests of fair competition across the single market. 

 

Options to change are limited as long as we remain in or closely tied to the EU. 

 

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Under EU rules, every member country must apply VAT and at a minimum of 15% (certain per-agreed goods can be taxed at lower levels). This is all in the interests of fair competition across the single market. 

 

Options to change are limited as long as we remain in or closely tied to the EU. 

 

 

 

There you go.    There's an obvious starting point for reforming VAT rates.    A lower rate of 15% through to higher rates of 20% and possibly beyond.

 

Depending what the future relationship is with the EU,    quite possibly more freedom to do more.

[Thunderstruck]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

There you go.    There's an obvious starting point for reforming VAT rates.    A lower rate of 15% through to higher rates of 20% and possibly beyond.

 

Depending what the future relationship is with the EU,    quite possibly more freedom to do more.

 

It doesn’t matter what VAT rate is used, it is a regressive tax and is just another tax on income already taxed. If we leave the EU, VAT would most likely remain or be replaced by another Sales Tax; it’s too easy a target. 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

VAT certainly needs increased as it is unavoidable......

I would also expand it to cover food as we have an obesity epidemic, though possibly at a lower rate

 

We also have foodbanks.

[doctor jambo]

7 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

We also have foodbanks.

True, but overeating is by far the greater issue in this country than hunger.

 

 

Perhaps VAT could be applied depending on the foodstuff?

fruit + veg= 0% VAT

Pot noodles/ chocolate/energy drinks 80% VAT

Takeaway food 40%

 

Have a central regulator (independent and staffed by nutritionists) so when you want  to put a product on the market they assess it and put it in a VAT band.

[Victorian]

28 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It doesn’t matter what VAT rate is used, it is a regressive tax and is just another tax on income already taxed. If we leave the EU, VAT would most likely remain or be replaced by another Sales Tax; it’s too easy a target. 

 

 

It can be reformed to become less regressive than it is now,    albeit depending on the future deal with the EU.

[AlphonseCapone]

23 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

True, but overeating is by far the greater issue in this country than hunger.

 

 

Perhaps VAT could be applied depending on the foodstuff?

fruit + veg= 0% VAT

Pot noodles/ chocolate/energy drinks 80% VAT

Takeaway food 40%

 

Have a central regulator (independent and staffed by nutritionists) so when you want  to put a product on the market they assess it and put it in a VAT band.

 

I think your suggested numbers are a bit too extreme but 0% on fruit and veg is a great idea. There is such a bias in choice for people with limited money just now. 

[Thunderstruck]

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It can be reformed to become less regressive than it is now,    albeit depending on the future deal with the EU.

 

Any tax that takes no account of ability to pay is, by definition, regressive. Tinkering with it will not change that. 

 

 

[Thunderstruck]

35 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

True, but overeating is by far the greater issue in this country than hunger.

 

 

Perhaps VAT could be applied depending on the foodstuff?

fruit + veg= 0% VAT

Pot noodles/ chocolate/energy drinks 80% VAT

Takeaway food 40%

 

Have a central regulator (independent and staffed by nutritionists) so when you want  to put a product on the market they assess it and put it in a VAT band.

 

Looking forward to a new Black Market with a different kind of Pot-Dealer. 

[Cade]

The new "group" which left Labour  is being financed by a shell company called "Gemini A Ltd" formed by Gavin Shuker in January.

 

It appears "The Independent Group" have not registered as a political party in order to subvert the rules regarding political donations, by funneling money through a private company, in much the same way that Chuka Umanna does with his various "think tanks".

Company Number 11770529

[Governor Tarkin]

53 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

True, but overeating is by far the greater issue in this country than hunger.

 

Tell that to someone who's hungry.

 

53 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

 

Perhaps VAT could be applied depending on the foodstuff?

fruit + veg= 0% VAT

Pot noodles/ chocolate/energy drinks 80% VAT

Takeaway food 40%

 

Have a central regulator (independent and staffed by nutritionists) so when you want  to put a product on the market they assess it and put it in a VAT band.

 

I could probably get onboard with something like this, although to be honest, during the lean years of Thatchers 80's me and most of the other kids in the scheme survived on a diet of cheap, calorie dense, 'junk' food. 

 

Healthy eating has not always been a 'choice'.

 

[JamboX2]

12 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

How he deals with the press? How do you deal with the press in this country??

 

He does need to be more at ease and not think the whole world is against him. It isn't. You need to engage with the wider world and he hardly seems to these days. Brown was accused of living in a bunker. Corbyn of late resembles a hermit living on Rockall. Not a peep from him as the nation faces its biggest disaster in a generation. Attlee in waiting this man is not.

 

12 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

International relations -  is it any worse than the simplistic idea we have a special relationship with a nation run by an extremely dangerous egotistical maniac?

 

His views are the exact opposite of the internationalism of the past 40 years. He wants the UK to retreat home; anti-EU, uncertain on NATO and quite happy to defend the failures of folk like Maduro and acquiesce to Russian influence.

 

People may accept that. But he has to elucidate on it.

 

12 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Anti semitism 'row' -  seems much of this happens on social media,  absolutely rife for manipulation

 

The people on the receiving end don't seem to think it is. The party is not being seen to do enough at all on any of this. Which in turn limits the ability to attack the Tories for their internal racism: Islamophobia mainly.

[Shanks said no]

I see Derek Hatton has rejoined the Labour Party 

[Dirty Deeds]

21 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

I see Derek Hatton has rejoined the Labour Party 

And George Galloway wants to rejoin ?

 

That'll make them electable. ?

[AlphonseCapone]

29 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Tell that to someone who's hungry.

 

 

I could probably get onboard with something like this, although to be honest, during the lean years of Thatchers 80's me and most of the other kids in the scheme survived on a diet of cheap, calorie dense, 'junk' food. 

 

Healthy eating has not always been a 'choice'.

 

 

It's pretty shit to debate between what's worse for a country, hunger or obesity, but in an economic sense he's probably right. You can only starve for so long after all before something gives. 

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

It's pretty shit to debate between what's worse for a country, hunger or obesity, but in an economic sense he's probably right. You can only starve for so long after all before something gives. 

Need to make good food cheaper, do this by taxing bad, and supplementing cost of good

[Riccarton3]

33 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

He does need to be more at ease and not think the whole world is against him. It isn't. You need to engage with the wider world and he hardly seems to these days. Brown was accused of living in a bunker. Corbyn of late resembles a hermit living on Rockall. Not a peep from him as the nation faces its biggest disaster in a generation. Attlee in waiting this man is not.

 

 

His views are the exact opposite of the internationalism of the past 40 years. He wants the UK to retreat home; anti-EU, uncertain on NATO and quite happy to defend the failures of folk like Maduro and acquiesce to Russian influence.

 

People may accept that. But he has to elucidate on it.

 

 

The people on the receiving end don't seem to think it is. The party is not being seen to do enough at all on any of this. Which in turn limits the ability to attack the Tories for their internal racism: Islamophobia mainly.

So, what are these people doing? Attacking Jews within the party for Israeli government policies? Or attacking them just for being jewish?

[Governor Tarkin]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Need to make good food cheaper, do this by taxing bad, and supplementing cost of good

 

Agreed.

The two would need to go hand in hand.

[Governor Tarkin]

38 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

It's pretty shit to debate between what's worse for a country, hunger or obesity, but in an economic sense he's probably right. You can only starve for so long after all before something gives. 

 

These Isles have an historical precedent for allowing it's poor to starve whilst those with means filled their bellies. 

[AlimOzturk]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

Need to make good food cheaper, do this by taxing bad, and supplementing cost of good

 

Honestly cannot see bad in your logic. 

 

Obesity is an epidemic. The amount that could be saved on the NHS by slimming people down and getting them healthier would be astronomical. 

 

Making healthy foods cheaper than junk food is a start. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by AlimOzturk

[Cade]

We could always just go back to Rationing.

The nation was never healthier.

[The Mighty Thor]

16 hours ago, Ulysses said:

When I heard the number 7, I admit I laughed.

 

 

 

This crew has to find find a lot of allies among MPs, and soon.....

 

 

 

 

.....or else political oblivion awaits them.

Political oblivion you say? I'd view them merely as the advance party before the remainder of the Labour party joins them. 

[RobboM]

4 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

True, but overeating is by far the greater issue in this country than hunger.

 

 

Perhaps VAT could be applied depending on the foodstuff?

fruit + veg= 0% VAT

Pot noodles/ chocolate/energy drinks 80% VAT

Takeaway food 40%

 

Have a central regulator (independent and staffed by nutritionists) so when you want  to put a product on the market they assess it and put it in a VAT band.

I thought it already was?
Most food is zero rated but alcohol/crisps/biscuits standard rate

Pot noodles 75% rated ?
 

[doctor jambo]

15 minutes ago, RobboM said:

I thought it already was?
Most food is zero rated but alcohol/crisps/biscuits standard rate

Pot noodles 75% rated ?
 

It needs reformed WITHOUT the input of the "food industry"

the applied VAT should reflect the nutritional value of the product, and bands applied .

 

for example- whole chicken would attract 0%

chicken nuggets 40 %

bring the price of "fresh" into the same price bracket as the crap,

BUT the manufacturers could reduce salt/ fat  contents and be "re-bracketed lower

( the sugar tax worked! the companies re-formulated their products)

[XB52]

3 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

So, what are these people doing? Attacking Jews within the party for Israeli government policies? Or attacking them just for being jewish?

Neither. They are attacking Israel for their racist apartheid policies while supporting the Palestinians. This is then called anti-Semitism by the right wing in the media and some Jews in the Labour party

[AlphonseCapone]

6 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Neither. They are attacking Israel for their racist apartheid policies while supporting the Palestinians. This is then called anti-Semitism by the right wing in the media and some Jews in the Labour party

 

See tbf, there are a lot of people who cross the anti-zionist line into anti-semitic. Too many folk on both sides of the debate don't understand the nuances between those things. 

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, AlphonseCapone said:

 

See tbf, there are a lot of people who cross the anti-zionist line into anti-semitic. Too many folk on both sides of the debate don't understand the nuances between those things. 

 

I just go all-out anti-semitic to avoid any confusion.

[coconut doug]

16 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

To be honest Corbyn's policies on utilities, transport and the economy aren't hard left. They're in line with many of Labour's sister parties around the globe.

 

His hard left element is his view of politics, international relations and how he deals with the press is hard left and is where many have concerns. 

 

The party is not doing enough quick enough on anti-semitism. There are elements within the party undermining it and yet he does nothing. He's principled but too rigid in his views. That isn't leadership. 

Perhaps if you updated your knowledge and understanding of the UK's international relations you might find Corbyn's position more honourable and logical. The idea that the UK is a beacon of ethical foreign policy and internationalist is ridiculous. Nothing is done unless it is in somebody's interest and these somebodies are rarely, if ever citizens. Little or nothing is done for the overall good of the country and that is why politics is broken.

       The press is there to support the unethical foreign policies of this country. They attempt to justify the usually needless but massively despicable acts of the U.K. It seems to me that in order to further ingratiate ourselves with a country that could'nt care less about us we are more than willing to ignore morality and decency. That comes in many forms but we have initiated wars, without UN backing on at least 2 occasions in this 40 years of Internationalism, you describe. I've not seen anything in these interventions that is beneficial to anybody other than those in the Military Industrial complex.

       It's never better demonstrated than this week though when a BBC producer has disclosed that the so called gas attacks on Douma never happened and that the casualties were actors. Do you remember when there was a clamour for the UK to bomb Syria and we did in response to Douma. Can you remember what Corbyn's response was at the time? I'll tell you, he was against it. If only he had compromised, that way there would only be half the number of fatalities or everybody would only be half-dead.

             Have you noticed that thousands are now returning to Syria now that Assad and the Russians have created a reasonable level of security? Do you think its alright to see things from a Russian perspective here or in Ukraine where they have been and continue to be ethnically cleansed by British backed fascists? The White Helmets and other terrorists have been evacuated to Israel. Strange isn't it that our press only gives us a one sided view of events. It's logical really that Corbyn who is a true internationalist should seek to avoid them. Have you ever seen him get a fair hearing?

  I'd like to see some real evidence of anti-semitism in the Labour Party, have you got any?

 

[AlphonseCapone]

6 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I just go all-out anti-semitic to avoid any confusion.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

21 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Perhaps if you updated your knowledge and understanding of the UK's international relations...

...I'd like to see some real anti-semitism in the Labour Party, have you got any?

 

 

I like your posts, doug, but find it hard to believe you're a coconut.

Unless 'coconut' is some kind of slang for 'Russian bot'.

[doctor jambo]

35 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Perhaps if you updated your knowledge and understanding of the UK's international relations you might find Corbyn's position more honourable and logical. The idea that the UK is a beacon of ethical foreign policy and internationalist is ridiculous. Nothing is done unless it is in somebody's interest and these somebodies are rarely, if ever citizens. Little or nothing is done for the overall good of the country and that is why politics is broken.

       The press is there to support the unethical foreign policies of this country. They attempt to justify the usually needless but massively despicable acts of the U.K. It seems to me that in order to further ingratiate ourselves with a country that could'nt care less about us we are more than willing to ignore morality and decency. That comes in many forms but we have initiated wars, without UN backing on at least 2 occasions in this 40 years of Internationalism, you describe. I've not seen anything in these interventions that is beneficial to anybody other than those in the Military Industrial complex.

       It's never better demonstrated than this week though when a BBC producer has disclosed that the so called gas attacks on Douma never happened and that the casualties were actors. Do you remember when there was a clamour for the UK to bomb Syria and we did in response to Douma. Can you remember what Corbyn's response was at the time? I'll tell you, he was against it. If only he had compromised, that way there would only be half the number of fatalities or everybody would only be half-dead.

             Have you noticed that thousands are now returning to Syria now that Assad and the Russians have created a reasonable level of security? Do you think its alright to see things from a Russian perspective here or in Ukraine where they have been and continue to be ethnically cleansed by British backed fascists? The White Helmets and other terrorists have been evacuated to Israel. Strange isn't it that our press only gives us a one sided view of events. It's logical really that Corbyn who is a true internationalist should seek to avoid them. Have you ever seen him get a fair hearing?

  I'd like to see some real evidence of anti-semitism in the Labour Party, have you got any?

 

I suspect out intervention stopped the friendly old Russians from improving security in Syria by slaughtering Assads opponents.

Whilst the "west" is not perfect by any stretch, it has been a long time since we shot down passenger jets or barrel bombed towns.

Our intervention probably prevented another Kosovo, by keeping one dictators jets on the ground whilst preventing anothers from cleansing entire areas

[jake]

45 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Perhaps if you updated your knowledge and understanding of the UK's international relations you might find Corbyn's position more honourable and logical. The idea that the UK is a beacon of ethical foreign policy and internationalist is ridiculous. Nothing is done unless it is in somebody's interest and these somebodies are rarely, if ever citizens. Little or nothing is done for the overall good of the country and that is why politics is broken.

       The press is there to support the unethical foreign policies of this country. They attempt to justify the usually needless but massively despicable acts of the U.K. It seems to me that in order to further ingratiate ourselves with a country that could'nt care less about us we are more than willing to ignore morality and decency. That comes in many forms but we have initiated wars, without UN backing on at least 2 occasions in this 40 years of Internationalism, you describe. I've not seen anything in these interventions that is beneficial to anybody other than those in the Military Industrial complex.

       It's never better demonstrated than this week though when a BBC producer has disclosed that the so called gas attacks on Douma never happened and that the casualties were actors. Do you remember when there was a clamour for the UK to bomb Syria and we did in response to Douma. Can you remember what Corbyn's response was at the time? I'll tell you, he was against it. If only he had compromised, that way there would only be half the number of fatalities or everybody would only be half-dead.

             Have you noticed that thousands are now returning to Syria now that Assad and the Russians have created a reasonable level of security? Do you think its alright to see things from a Russian perspective here or in Ukraine where they have been and continue to be ethnically cleansed by British backed fascists? The White Helmets and other terrorists have been evacuated to Israel. Strange isn't it that our press only gives us a one sided view of events. It's logical really that Corbyn who is a true internationalist should seek to avoid them. Have you ever seen him get a fair hearing?

  I'd like to see some real evidence of anti-semitism in the Labour Party, have you got any?

 

Mate have you a link to the BBC producer regarding Douma ? 

I took a fair bit of stick arguing about the lies told to us by the likes of the BBC and the guardian on here.

 

 

 

 

[jake]

11 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I suspect out intervention stopped the friendly old Russians from improving security in Syria by slaughtering Assads opponents.

Whilst the "west" is not perfect by any stretch, it has been a long time since we shot down passenger jets or barrel bombed towns.

Our intervention probably prevented another Kosovo, by keeping one dictators jets on the ground whilst preventing anothers from cleansing entire areas

No the West just declared an illegal war in Iraq .

Think the numbers killed dwarfed passenger jet fatalities.

 

There are no good guys doc.

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, jake said:

No the West just declared an illegal war in Iraq .

Think the numbers killed dwarfed passenger jet fatalities.

 

There are no good guys doc.

True, but there are bad guys and incredibly bad guys- but you never get the credit for being on the right side, only the blame when on the wrong side.

In Syria we could EITHER have sat on our hands and allowed the opposition to be massacred, or try and minimise it

[jake]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

True, but there are bad guys and incredibly bad guys- but you never get the credit for being on the right side, only the blame when on the wrong side.

In Syria we could EITHER have sat on our hands and allowed the opposition to be massacred, or try and minimise it

Imo the Syrian mess was manufactured by US Saudi Israeli hegemony.

Although Assad is far from being perfect relatively to the area Syria was a stable state which respected minorities and had a relatively modern outlook.

Look at it now.

 

Some things I agree with you doc but Syria was like Iraq a conflict constructed.

[Ulysses]

....and that's Labour's fault?

[coconut doug]

31 minutes ago, jake said:

Mate have you a link to the BBC producer regarding Douma ? 

I took a fair bit of stick arguing about the lies told to us by the likes of the BBC and the guardian on here.

 

 

 

 

https://www.globalresearch.ca/bbc-producers-syria-bombshell-douma-gas-attack-footage-was-staged/5668724

 

 

 

[Ulysses]

Lads, this thread is about the Labour party.  If you want to promote pro-Russia conspiracy theories broadcast on a Russian government-funded telly channel, could y'all at least take it to a thread of its own?

[coconut doug]

49 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I suspect out intervention stopped the friendly old Russians from improving security in Syria by slaughtering Assads opponents.

Whilst the "west" is not perfect by any stretch, it has been a long time since we shot down passenger jets or barrel bombed towns.

Our intervention probably prevented another Kosovo, by keeping one dictators jets on the ground whilst preventing anothers from cleansing entire areas

You know very little about Syria and even less about Kosovo, it seems. Not that long since we started a war costing a million deaths justified on a pack of lies though.

Who was prevented from cleansing entire areas? 

[jake]

6 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/bbc-producers-syria-bombshell-douma-gas-attack-footage-was-staged/5668724

 

 

 

Thanks mate