What does Craig Levein see that we don’t?

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

You’re not very good at reading between the lines are you? Naismith played 90 minutes against Portugal, chasing shadows after playing another 90 minutes in the heat of Israel chasing shadows for 90 minutes. Levein should’ve done what many other managers do and politely request that our main asset not play for the whole game (Tierney was allowed to leave the squad, tired at 21 yo ffs).

Naismith then played against Dundee, probably should’ve been subbed right after our third goal, gets an injury but plays on and is subbed eventually. He then injures the same knee in the warm up at Murrayfield and our season stutters badly.

Now if CL couldn’t foresee the possibility of that happening he’s not the man that most people on here think he is.

Naismith is not our player.  Maybe Norwich gave authority for him to play with a view to getting an offer for him in January.

[Fourcandles]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You’re not very good at reading between the lines are you? Naismith played 90 minutes against Portugal, chasing shadows after playing another 90 minutes in the heat of Israel chasing shadows for 90 minutes. Levein should’ve done what many other managers do and politely request that our main asset not play for the whole game (Tierney was allowed to leave the squad, tired at 21 yo ffs).

Naismith then played against Dundee, probably should’ve been subbed right after our third goal, gets an injury but plays on and is subbed eventually. He then injures the same knee in the warm up at Murrayfield and our season stutters badly.

Now if CL couldn’t foresee the possibility of that happening he’s not the man that most people on here think he is.

 

I could agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong.......and that wouldn’t help much would it.

 

.......plus the smart arce club would be 2 members short too.

 

.

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Naismith is not our player.  Maybe Norwich gave authority for him to play with a view to getting an offer for him in January.

That’s a fair point, I don’t think permission was requested though. Can’t seem them getting an offer now though.

Lets get back on topic though. What do you see in Wighton and Clare?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Fourcandles said:

 

I could agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong.......and that wouldn’t help much would it.

 

.......plus the smart arce club would be 2 members short too.

 

.

Or we could discuss what you think? That’s kind of the idea ?.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Pasquale for King

[DG_HMFC]

I am fairly confident both Sean Clare and Craig Wighton will become very good players for Hearts.

[Fourcandles]

Losing 2 games to a club with 10times our budget and a draw with Hibs is not a slump........

outwith that if losing one game to the best Kilmarnock team in several decades is a slump then I’m Donald Trump.

 

.

[Beast Boy]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s a fair point, I don’t think permission was requested though. Can’t seem them getting an offer now though.

Lets get back on topic though. What do you think can be done to halt our slump?

 

He stated himself that a big part of his move here was the opportunity to reach 50 caps and the SFA Hall of Fame. Don’t think we would be playing a smart hand if we denied him that chance. Even if we had a say, which I don’t think we do.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Fourcandles said:

Losing 2 games to a club with 10times our budget and a draw with Hibs is not a slump........

outwith that if losing one game to the best Kilmarnock team in several decades is a slump then I’m Donald Trump.

 

.

We have about ten times Killies budget. Drawing with Hibs is always unacceptable. Not scoring in four games, not winning any of them, losing ten goals in that time, considering what happened before is a slump I’m afraid, Donald ?.

 

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s a fair point, I don’t think permission was requested though. Can’t seem them getting an offer now though.

Lets get back on topic though. What do you think can be done to halt our slump?

Why don't you think permission was requested?  Why can't you see them getting an offer?  Special powers?

Back on topic is not about the slump.  It's about what CL sees in players.  And we seem to be specifically talking about players we have had to play who might otherwise have been eased in gradually.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

He stated himself that a big part of his move here was the opportunity to reach 50 caps and the SFA Hall of Fame. Don’t think we would be playing a smart hand if we denied him that chance. Even if we had a say, which I don’t think we do.

He could’ve come off the bench, Scotland have quite a few games coming up etc and now he might not get there which might be due to his workload. You’re right though we might not have a had a say and Norwich might well have wanted him to play and put himself in the shop window. I think in hindsight CL may well have cut his time on the pitch when we were winning games easily, his  experience should’ve led him to do that don’t you think? 

[Dennis Law]

On 12/11/2018 at 20:57, Coco said:

This second striker/attacking midfielder has been a problem position during the current regime.  Some of the players have been successful and some have been successful in other positions.  We've had players who were already at the club and who could play that position.  Walker, Nicholson, King, Robinson, Paterson.

 

And then the signings.  El Hassnaoui, Anderson, Cowie, Djoum, Reilly, Muirhead, Martin, Watt, Amankwaa, Naismith. Clare, Mulraney, MacLean, Wighton. 

 

Some of these haven't really started yet but of the tested players with the exception of Djoum and Naismith they have been very poor signings.

I don’t think the signings are the problem it’s playing them out of position that is . We had 4 different players playing on left side of midfield during the 90 minutes on Saturday. It’s been a feature throughout Levein/Cathro/Neilson selections. Centre miss playing wide - think there is a common denominator there somewhere!.Remember once cowie playing a blinder in centre midfield pumping caley  5-1 only to be moved wide left next game where he had a howler. Cannot for the life of me understand why 4 players get nod before Mitchell and the garrucio change baffles. The team on Saturday reflects a number of games where we lack balance with right footers constantly turning inside giving possession away However all that said top two at this stage!!  Imagine how it would be with players playing in correct position.

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We have about ten times Killies budget. Drawing with Hibs is always unacceptable. Not scoring in four games, not winning any of them, losing ten goals in that time, considering what happened before is a slump I’m afraid, Donald ?.

 

 

We beat Celtic earlier in the season.  How many times more is their budget than ours?  A draw with Hibs was relatively good with our reserve team, don't you think?

Don't pretend you're just sore because of the results.  CL is your problem and you were very quiet for a couple of months.  Were you away on an extended holiday ?

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He could’ve come off the bench, Scotland have quite a few games coming up etc and now he might not get there which might be due to his workload. You’re right though we might not have a had a say and Norwich might well have wanted him to play and put himself in the shop window. I think in hindsight CL may well have cut his time on the pitch when we were winning games easily, his  experience should’ve led him to do that don’t you think? 

 

Could be. I think Levein probably trusts him and manages/coaches him less than other players in the squad. I think signing him probably hinged on a few provisos, and I think Levein was probably willing to accept those provisos because he knew just how influential he is. All just my opinion based on the bits and pieces I’ve read about him though.

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Glib and Shameless Crier

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Why don't you think permission was requested?  Why can't you see them getting an offer?  Special powers?

Back on topic is not about the slump.  It's about what CL sees in players.  And we seem to be specifically talking about players we have had to play who might otherwise have been eased in gradually.

Got my topics mixed up, changed it to your thoughts on Clare and Wighton which you’ve answered. Does any national manager ask permission to play players, it’s only when the club ask for dispensation that dialogue ensues. I don’t think anyone will offer them money to take an injury prone 32 year old on £50k a week who wants to live in Scotland off their hands. Only the artists formerly known as Rangers would buy him, with his history there and the fans feeling and their debts and Naismith being a clever guy who’s made his money I can’t see it. Who do you think would buy him?

[Sid]

Naismith getting injured just now may actually work in our favour. 

No chabce anyone will nip in for him in January and age and recent injury will put doubt in minds at end of season. 

We cant afford him but if offers are limited, there might just be a deal to be had. 

If he had continued to bang then in all season there would be no hope of seeing him here next season. 

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Dennis Law said:

I don’t think the signings are the problem it’s playing them out of position that is . We had 4 different players playing on left side of midfield during the 90 minutes on Saturday. It’s been a feature throughout Levein/Cathro/Neilson selections. Centre miss playing wide - think there is a common denominator there somewhere!.Remember once cowie playing a blinder in centre midfield pumping caley  5-1 only to be moved wide left next game where he had a howler. Cannot for the life of me understand why 4 players get nod before Mitchell and the garrucio change baffles. The team on Saturday reflects a number of games where we lack balance with right footers constantly turning inside giving possession away However all that said top two at this stage!!  Imagine how it would be with players playing in correct position.

Definitely and Djoum has been the biggest victim of being moved around. We were 3 nil up against Motherwell under Neilon at HT, he swapped Prince and Djoum at HT and we were rubbish until he took Prince off and put Djoum back Central and scored another three times. Djoum, Cowie, Prince, Lee, Bozanic and a few others have been played our wide to no effect. CL did it with guys like Simmons and Stamp back up n his first spell too. He likes his midfielders and wingers to work hard, nothing wrong with that but it hampers the 442 he wants to play.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Sid said:

Naismith getting injured just now may actually work in our favour. 

No chabce anyone will nip in for him in January and age and recent injury will put doubt in minds at end of season. 

We cant afford him but if offers are limited, there might just be a deal to be had. 

If he had continued to bang then in all season there would be no hope of seeing him here next season. 

Only time will tell, it’s a good point though ??.

[Pasquale for King]

29 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

We beat Celtic earlier in the season.  How many times more is their budget than ours?  A draw with Hibs was relatively good with our reserve team, don't you think?

Don't pretend you're just sore because of the results.  CL is your problem and you were very quiet for a couple of months.  Were you away on an extended holiday ?

Wasn’t quiet at all, was on giving him praise when it was due and moaning about Edwards and choosing to play 352 and then changing it. More recently my big concern was the injury situation and the medical department. Most recently the shame of the sectarian element of our great club has pained me.Yeah results are not important to me I just want CL out, that’s why I find a draw against Hibs at home unacceptable. Can you name one player on the pitch against Hibs that’s played for the reserves this season, remember CL saying big squad for injuries after signing 19 players? You really aren’t a good judge of character at all. I want the best for my club, whoever runs it even if it was Neil Lennon. Just noticed that Fleetwood have the same wage bill as we do eh ??‍♂️?

Edited November 13, 2018 by Pasquale for King

[Musemic]

14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

We have about ten times Killies budget. Drawing with Hibs is always unacceptable. Not scoring in four games, not winning any of them, losing ten goals in that time, considering what happened before is a slump I’m afraid, Donald ?.

 

Not sure where you get your information from but the last official figures reported in November 2017 are :

Hearts - £95,514 / £1,837 (Annual wage/Weekly wage)

Kilmarnock - £55,100 / £1,060

 

Doubtless our expenditure on players is higher than it was last year due to the high number of new recruits but your idea of us having 10x the budget of Killie is nonsense. Killie are a more than decent side anyway and I'm sure if you took their results from this calendar year you'd find that they have the third best record (possibly even 2nd best) since January  (only 8 losses in 30-odd games) so losing to them is no disgrace.

[Pasquale for King]

18 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Could be. I think Levein probably trusts him and manages/coaches him less than other players in the squad. I think signing him probably hinged on a few provisos, and I think Levein was probably willing to accept those provisos because he knew just how influential he is. All just my opinion based on the bits and pieces I’ve read about him though.

 

Definitely, a coach on the pitch as well as the best player in the league imo and a wonderful singing by CL.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Musemic said:

Not sure where you get your information from but the last official figures reported in November 2017 are :

Hearts - £95,514 / £1,837 (Annual wage/Weekly wage)

Kilmarnock - £55,100 / £1,060

 

Doubtless our expenditure on players is higher than it was last year due to the high number of new recruits but your idea of us having 10x the budget of Killie is nonsense. Killie are a more than decent side anyway and I'm sure if you took their results from this calendar year you'd find that they have the third best record (possibly even 2nd best) since January  (only 8 losses in 30-odd games) so losing to them is no disgrace.

Could you read the earlier posts please. I shared this latest wage structure table earlier. I was pointing out the difference between us and Killie to show him that his comparison between us and Celtic was nearly as 

much as us and Killie. No it wasn’t a disgrace at all to lose to Killie who have a manager who has then punching way above their weight and teams who pay more.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Got my topics mixed up, changed it to your thoughts on Clare and Wighton which you’ve answered. Does any national manager ask permission to play players, it’s only when the club ask for dispensation that dialogue ensues. I don’t think anyone will offer them money to take an injury prone 32 year old on £50k a week who wants to live in Scotland off their hands. Only the artists formerly known as Rangers would buy him, with his history there and the fans feeling and their debts and Naismith being a clever guy who’s made his money I can’t see it. Who do you think would buy him?

1

You're getting a lot mixed up not just your topics.  Are we now on to Naismith - I imagine everyone knows what CL sees in him!!

You seem to be having a wee argument with yourself as highlighted.  You might have a chance of winning but I wouldn't bet on it.

Who do I think would buy him?  I've not given it a great deal of thought but I'd guess someone who thinks he would improve their team might buy him.  He has improved ours.  Hasn't he?

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Wasn’t quiet at all, was on giving him praise when it was due and moaning about Edwards and choosing to play 352 and then changing it. More recently my big concern was the injury situation and the medical department. Most recently the shame of the sectarian element of our great club has pained me.Yeah results are not important to me I just want CL out, that’s why I find a draw against Hibs at home unacceptable. Can you name one player on the pitch against Hibs that’s played for the reserves this season, remember CL saying big squad for injuries after signing 19 players? You really aren’t a good judge of character at all. I want the best for my club, whoever runs it even if it was Neil Lennon. Just noticed that Fleetwood have the same wage bill as we do eh ??‍♂️?

1

Did Jason tell you that Fleetwood have the same wage bill as us?

You are miffed because you blame CL for emptying him.      

(BTW I thought he was a decent player, as it happens.  Just a little bit  too light)

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

You're getting a lot mixed up not just your topics.  Are we now on to Naismith - I imagine everyone knows what CL sees in him!!

You seem to be having a wee argument with yourself as highlighted.  You might have a chance of winning but I wouldn't bet on it.

Who do I think would buy him?  I've not given it a great deal of thought but I'd guess someone who thinks he would improve their team might buy him.  He has improved ours.  Hasn't he?

What I was trying to point out was that the only team that would bid for him would be Rangers as he wants to stay in Scotland, and for the reasons I gave they won’t do it. Now you’re thinking about it who else would bid for him?

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Did Jason tell you that Fleetwood have the same wage bill as us?

You are miffed because you blame CL for emptying him.      

(BTW I thought he was a decent player, as it happens.  Just a little bit  too light)

It was in the wage table I showed you earlier on, the one that disproved all your equal wages between Hearts/Hibs/Killie crap you spouted for months and then disregarded when you were shown the figures.Couldnt care less about  him really, just that we gave him away and Rangers will want more than £65k we got with no sell on fee. You’re really good at pointing out little things that deflect from the fact you never answer anything or come up with any of your own thoughts. A bit like a policeman, you’re definitely clever enough. But let’s ruin another thread eh ?.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Pasquale for King

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It was in the wage table I showed you earlier on, the one that disproved all your equal wages between Hearts/Hibs/Killie crap you spouted for months and then disregarded when you were shown the figures.Couldnt care less about  him really, just that we gave him away and Rangers will want more than £65k we got with no sell on fee. You’re really good at pointing out little things that deflect from the fact you never answer anything or come up with any of your own thoughts. A bit like a policeman, you’re definitely clever enough. But let’s ruin another thread eh ?.

Keep going.  You're on a brilliant roll.  I don't know what CL sees in Fleetwood's wage bill - or are you mixing up your topics again?

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Keep going.  You're on a brilliant roll.  I don't know what CL sees in Fleetwood's wage bill - or are you mixing up your topics again?

In simple language so you can keep up.

I showed you a current wage table for British Clubs and Killie paid £2.2m in wages last season, Hibs £5.3m and Hearts £5.9m. Last season you argued that Clarke wasn’t doing a better job than Levein and Lennon because the wage bills were similar and you were wrong again.

You mentioned Holt, I said he was doing ok on loan at Fleetwood, I then noticed their wage bill was £5.8m meaning he’s at a club on a level with ours.

Please don’t make anymore comments if you can’t follow what I’m saying or just want to pick certain bits out without actually moving the conversation forwards and not off a tangent that only you see. You never say what you think, you just want to argue with no real answers or opinions. Bye now ??.

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Could you read the earlier posts please. I shared this latest wage structure table earlier. I was pointing out the difference between us and Killie to show him that his comparison between us and Celtic was nearly as 

much as us and Killie. No it wasn’t a disgrace at all to lose to Killie who have a manager who has then punching way above their weight and teams who pay more.

 

Killie below Ross County, D Utd and Thistle! Where are Motherwell, St Mirren, Dundee, St Johnstone, Livingston and Hamilton - surely not all below three Scottish championship teams?

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Killie below Ross County, D Utd and Thistle! Where are Motherwell, St Mirren, Dundee, St Johnstone, Livingston and Hamilton - surely not all below three Scottish championship teams?

That’s last seasons wages, RC and PT just went down and DU obviously have bigger crowds and pay more than the teams you mention.

[Beast Boy]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah results are not important to me I just want CL out,

 

Sorry, just been skimming most of the longer posts. This was sarcastic, wasn’t it? 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Sorry, just been skimming most of the longer posts. This was sarcastic, wasn’t it? 

Yes indeed, sometimes it’s the only way to deal with the deflection and attempts not to answer any questions. 

[Jingle Bells]

10 hours ago, Dennis Law said:

I don’t think the signings are the problem it’s playing them out of position that is . We had 4 different players playing on left side of midfield during the 90 minutes on Saturday. It’s been a feature throughout Levein/Cathro/Neilson selections. Centre miss playing wide - think there is a common denominator there somewhere!.Remember once cowie playing a blinder in centre midfield pumping caley  5-1 only to be moved wide left next game where he had a howler. Cannot for the life of me understand why 4 players get nod before Mitchell and the garrucio change baffles. The team on Saturday reflects a number of games where we lack balance with right footers constantly turning inside giving possession away However all that said top two at this stage!!  Imagine how it would be with players playing in correct position.

I'd agree with that.

Levein has never been one for playing two wingers in the same team,wrongly imho  However with only one fit CF in the squad it would seem the obvious way to go in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. Wingers have a defensive role to protect their full-back partner's too.

Our shots on target record has been abysmal since Naismith got injured and that needs to improve, otherwise we are back to the dross of last season, when we played to "narrow". on the whole, and didn't score enough goals to win games, as a consequence.

On subject, as for Clare and Wighton they both seem to be a bit to lightweight but that can be worked on, in the gym.

Lack of pace is another matter.though.

[JamboAl]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

In simple language so you can keep up.

I showed you a current wage table for British Clubs and Killie paid £2.2m in wages last season, Hibs £5.3m and Hearts £5.9m. Last season you argued that Clarke wasn’t doing a better job than Levein and Lennon because the wage bills were similar and you were wrong again.

You mentioned Holt, I said he was doing ok on loan at Fleetwood, I then noticed their wage bill was £5.8m meaning he’s at a club on a level with ours.

Please don’t make anymore comments if you can’t follow what I’m saying or just want to pick certain bits out without actually moving the conversation forwards and not off a tangent that only you see. You never say what you think, you just want to argue with no real answers or opinions. Bye now ??.

 

2

In simple language, your hatred for Levein is causing you to hi-jack the thread.

It's not about Clarke doing a better job than CL or Fleetwood's wage bill etc., it's about what the manager sees in certain payers.

Keep up.  Bye.

Edited November 14, 2018 by JamboAl

[Jocam2325]

20 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Yes, been a Jambo for decades.  Been judging players for decades and I called it wrong on John Souttar.  Shocking record that.

You should be the club scout. What a man.