What does Craig Levein see that we don’t?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Training 

[jambopilms]

I would like to see Clare come into a game we are already comfortable. It’s a bit harsh to judge anyone against Celtic or in a derby.

 

[UcheGang]

There are definitely players in there with CW and SC but they are still a bit on the raw side. They will come good.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

2 young players expected to hit the ground running, give them a break to settle into the club, training, surroundings, they will will still be getting to know new team mates and developing team understanding relationships it takes time 

I remember CL brought in Ricardo Fuller and he took a while to get going, then boom what a player he was for us

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, Old Castle Rock said:

2 young players expected to hit the ground running, give them a break to settle into the club, training, surroundings, they will will still be getting to know new team mates and developing team understanding relationships it takes time 

I remember CL brought in Ricardo Fuller and he took a while to get going, then boom what a player he was for us

 

Imagine the comments on here from some after Paul Hartley's first few games for us, and he wasn't even returning from a long injury layoff like Clare.

[Highlander]

I think what gets on my tits about Clare is the fact that he said he models himself on Dele Alli.

 

In what cosmos is this laddie's heid?

[4marsbars]

 e

Edited November 12, 2018 by 4marsbars

[Bauld]

He probably sees 2 players that have not long fought their way back from injury.

 

That haven't, to my knowledge, had a pre season and therefore won't be at their best until next season but have been given no choice but to be thrown in in an emergency situation.

[gashauskis9]

The fact that Clare has been at his most effective off the bench tells me that he’s still getting up to speed.  Was hung out to dry starting at Parkhead.  

 

I’ve seen enough in flashes from both Clare and Wighton to make me content that they are great players who need to get up to speed following serious injuries.  Huge step up for both of them as well, I think we forget that.  Lots of pressure to fill the gap left by Uche and Naismith.

 

 

[Thomaso]

4 hours ago, chester copperpot said:

Clare will come good. I am sure if that.

 

Wighton is more of a punt. These are just my opinion though. 

 

Clare came with a huge reputation. He has been training with us for 8 weeks so should now be physically fit surely. The worrying thing is that he has shown not one glimpse of any exceptional football ability in the games he has appeared in - regardless of needing game time you do not forget how to play football. We now desperately need him to add something positive to the team.

 

As for Wighton - did we really need "one for developing"???  That plan is now costing us as he is nowhere near a decent replacement in the striking department.  Another £100k would have bought Shankland from Ayr who continues to bang them in for fun.

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

Clare came with a huge reputation. He has been training with us for 8 weeks so should now be physically fit surely. The worrying thing is that he has shown not one glimpse of any exceptional football ability in the games he has appeared in - regardless of needing game time you do not forget how to play football. We now desperately need him to add something positive to the team.

 

As for Wighton - did we really need "one for developing"???  That plan is now costing us as he is nowhere near a decent replacement in the striking department.  Another £100k would have bought Shankland from Ayr who continues to bang them in for fun.

Reilly used to bang them in for fun with QoS.  Where is he now?

No guarantees Shankland would be the hit you seem to assume and did we have that extra £100k at the time?  All theoretical, you understand.

[sadj]

11 hours ago, EastSideJambo said:

Way too early to judge either player 

 

Reluctance to use Mitchell higher up the park is possibly a missed opportunity that could take of pressure off aforementioned pair 

Dont you start being bloody sensible....

 

Can anyone confirm if its our choice where Mitchell plays or if were required by his loan to develop him as a left back? He’s been very frustrating this season. Is it because he’s playing in a better team or a forced shape he’s struggling to show his best in?

[sadj]

15 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Reilly used to bang them in for fun with QoS.  Where is he now?

No guarantees Shankland would be the hit you seem to assume and did we have that extra £100k at the time?  All theoretical, you understand.

Shankland has also stated that due to his earnings from PTing that he won’t move or if he does it won’t be cheap. Is Shankland the answer he has obviously changed from where he was at Aberdeen and I was speaking to someone at the weekend who played against him a lot in u20s who said you could just tell he had a 6th sense at that level. However he will no doubt of been scouted and no one has gone in hard to get him. Celtic usually like to pick up these players and haven’t tried. Is there a reason? You’d have to imagine there is. 

[Thomaso]

19 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Reilly used to bang them in for fun with QoS.  Where is he now?

No guarantees Shankland would be the hit you seem to assume and did we have that extra £100k at the time?  All theoretical, you understand.

 

This is true.  Unfortunately in the games he has played Wighton reminds me of Reilly.

[Thomaso]

6 minutes ago, sadj said:

Shankland has also stated that due to his earnings from PTing that he won’t move or if he does it won’t be cheap. Is Shankland the answer he has obviously changed from where he was at Aberdeen and I was speaking to someone at the weekend who played against him a lot in u20s who said you could just tell he had a 6th sense at that level. However he will no doubt of been scouted and no one has gone in hard to get him. Celtic usually like to pick up these players and haven’t tried. Is there a reason? You’d have to imagine there is. 

 

Celtic can't sign them all.

[Highlander]

14 minutes ago, sadj said:

Dont you start being bloody sensible....

 

Can anyone confirm if its our choice where Mitchell plays or if were required by his loan to develop him as a left back? He’s been very frustrating this season. Is it because he’s playing in a better team or a forced shape he’s struggling to show his best in?

 

Is that actually possible in terms of a loan deal, to be prescriptive about where a player plays?

 

Genuine question.

[frankblack]

10 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Celtic do have a history of signing good young players from lower divisions with Christie being the latest example. 

 

Doubt Shankland is anywhere near the level of player that they would consider these days.

 

Christie was with Inverness in the SPL and I don't think he was particularly cheap.

[i8hibsh]

They are both getting their chance due to injuries and both are not taking it.  Simple as that.  They will not be here long.

[EastSideJambo]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Reilly used to bang them in for fun with QoS.  Where is he now?

No guarantees Shankland would be the hit you seem to assume and did we have that extra £100k at the time?  All theoretical, you understand.

An extra £100,000 seems small change when we are paying out £18,000,000 on stadium redevelopment costs 

[Bighenry]

Cmon now... Any player that can’t prove themselves in the space of 2 or 3 hours of football is shite!! 

[FarmerTweedy]

6 hours ago, Muppetboy said:

The ‘muppets’ choose to voice their discontent on here every Saturday night, rightly or wrongly. I already said I’ve not seen enough of them to judge so don’t believe I can have an informed opinion hence the original posts wording

You've asked what Levein sees in these players that 'we' don't.  You've clearly made a judgement on them, and are asking why Levein's judgement is different than yours. You wouldn't be asking the question if you hadn't judged!

[EastSideJambo]

56 minutes ago, sadj said:

Dont you start being bloody sensible....

 

Can anyone confirm if its our choice where Mitchell plays or if were required by his loan to develop him as a left back? He’s been very frustrating this season. Is it because he’s playing in a better team or a forced shape he’s struggling to show his best in?

I'll try and not make a habit of it bud! 

 

Way too early to be judging Clare or Wighton imo. Will probably be next season before we see true value of either. Clare gave me the sense in the Derby that he wanted to stand on it, only for the intensity of the occasion to blow him away. That's understandable and not a criticism of him. I'll be interested to learn where he is best deployed idc 

 

Wighton - I expected to have seen more in his game even this early if I'm truthful.  Looks a bit lightweight and not particularly quick. If you are an attacking player in this environment up here and you have neither of the aforementioned attributes, you need a bit of talent otherwise you'll get stifled out of games fairly readily. Levein seen something to covet him for so long so let's wait and see. I see that clown McPake seems to rate him from his time at Dundee 

 

On Mitchell - I agree he's been fairly disappointing for most part.  When you have a player of such apparent quality it's incumbent on the manager to get the best out of them. Like many others, I'm far from convinced over his credentials as a left back. I'm one of those calling for him to play ahead of Garrucio on left hand side. I'd play him and Morrison either side of MacLean and play 3 central mids until we've got further options to choose from. Wighton and Clare are options from the bench for now imo 

 

[EastSideJambo]

55 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Christie was with Inverness in the SPL and I don't think he was particularly cheap.

Iro half a million iirc 

[JamboAl]

38 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

An extra £100,000 seems small change when we are paying out £18,000,000 on stadium redevelopment costs 

Because we are paying for a better stand does not mean we are free to spend speculatively elsewhere.  I am quite willing to back Ann's judgment on these matters.

 

[EastSideJambo]

Just now, JamboAl said:

Because we are paying for a better stand does not mean we are free to spend speculatively elsewhere.  I am quite willing to back Ann's judgment on these matters.

 

It's a helluva outlay. Must have been well thought out and costed. Vast outlay nonetheless 

 

I agree on your analogy with Reilly. He did score at Queens and again at St Mirren last season. Not the answer though as we've seen 

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

It's a helluva outlay. Must have been well thought out and costed. Vast outlay nonetheless 

 

I agree on your analogy with Reilly. He did score at Queens and again at St Mirren last season. Not the answer though as we've seen 

2

I think we all know that but as I said I am willing to back AB's judgment rather than idle speculation.  She does not seem concerned re the financial implications and perhaps the forthcoming accounts will enlighten us a bit, apart from post June income/expenditure.

[Rudolf]

2 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

The fact that Clare has been at his most effective off the bench tells me that he’s still getting up to speed.  Was hung out to dry starting at Parkhead.  

 

I’ve seen enough in flashes from both Clare and Wighton to make me content that they are great players who need to get up to speed following serious injuries.  Huge step up for both of them as well, I think we forget that.  Lots of pressure to fill the gap left by Uche and Naismith.

 

 

Spot on.

 

Wighton produced a great moment of skill in the first half when he beat his man and curled a good effort wide.

 

That goes in and he's the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Clare still looks nervous but I'm confident both will come on to a game.

[gashauskis9]

Just now, Rudolf said:

Spot on.

 

Wighton produced a great moment of skill in the first half when he beat his man and curled a good effort wide.

 

That goes in and he's the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Clare still looks nervous but I'm confident both will come on to a game.

There was also a move in the first half where Wighton picked the ball up on the half way line turned his man and won a corner out of nothing.  He’s going to be a handful, Levein knows what he’s doing.

[Rudolf]

2 hours ago, sadj said:

Dont you start being bloody sensible....

 

Can anyone confirm if its our choice where Mitchell plays or if were required by his loan to develop him as a left back? He’s been very frustrating this season. Is it because he’s playing in a better team or a forced shape he’s struggling to show his best in?

Mitchell played wide right against Livingston so unlikely there are any restrictions in place.

[EastSideJambo]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

I think we all know that but as I said I am willing to back AB's judgment rather than idle speculation.  She does not seem concerned re the financial implications and perhaps the forthcoming accounts will enlighten us a bit, apart from post June income/expenditure.

Yes the impending financials will cast some light on things. 18 is a big jump from 12. That said, I've no doubt whatsoever she'd do anything that wouldn't seek to serve the club in the best way going forward 

 

You get one chance at these things so she's right to explore all options 

[colinmaroon]

17 hours ago, merrymac said:

Both out for long periods with injury both bought as long term projects

both having to play in a team suffering from injuries to its backbone players,which has lost a bit of confidence because of this.

both having made 2-3 appearances.

Really?? the majority believe they may not cut it? really!!

 

 

Absolute idiots!!!

 

 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, EastSideJambo said:

Yes the impending financials will cast some light on things. 18 is a big jump from 12. That said, I've no doubt whatsoever she'd do anything that wouldn't seek to serve the club in the best way going forward 

 

You get one chance at these things so she's right to explore all options 

1

I think everyone knows that too but she does not seem unduly concerned so why are you so bothered.  She explained that in her recent statement.

However

I think this thread is about what CL sees in players and not new stand costs.

[sadj]

4 hours ago, EastSideJambo said:

I'll try and not make a habit of it bud! 

 

Way too early to be judging Clare or Wighton imo. Will probably be next season before we see true value of either. Clare gave me the sense in the Derby that he wanted to stand on it, only for the intensity of the occasion to blow him away. That's understandable and not a criticism of him. I'll be interested to learn where he is best deployed idc 

 

Wighton - I expected to have seen more in his game even this early if I'm truthful.  Looks a bit lightweight and not particularly quick. If you are an attacking player in this environment up here and you have neither of the aforementioned attributes, you need a bit of talent otherwise you'll get stifled out of games fairly readily. Levein seen something to covet him for so long so let's wait and see. I see that clown McPake seems to rate him from his time at Dundee 

 

On Mitchell - I agree he's been fairly disappointing for most part.  When you have a player of such apparent quality it's incumbent on the manager to get the best out of them. Like many others, I'm far from convinced over his credentials as a left back. I'm one of those calling for him to play ahead of Garrucio on left hand side. I'd play him and Morrison either side of MacLean and play 3 central mids until we've got further options to choose from. Wighton and Clare are options from the bench for now imo 

 

Id love to see him in front of Garrucio and Lee/Djoum , Haring and Clare/Wighton in the middle and Morrison right with MacLean to try and pick up the goals until players are back. As I said don’t know if we are prohibited from that by Man Utd.

[sadj]

5 hours ago, Highlander said:

 

Is that actually possible in terms of a loan deal, to be prescriptive about where a player plays?

 

Genuine question.

Iv not experienced it so definately but iv heard of it , there is definately loans where the loan is only allowed if the player if fit is played. As was pointed out above tho mitchell played rm against livi so ??‍♂️

[151]

Works both ways, he seen things in maclean that we wouldnt have, Uche etc

 

But Wighton is a very strange one. Especially when we paid.

[EastSideJambo]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

I think everyone knows that too but she does not seem unduly concerned so why are you so bothered.  She explained that in her recent statement.

However

I think this thread is about what CL sees in players and not new stand costs.

You are keeping good order here Al 

[Debut 4]

5 hours ago, EastSideJambo said:

I'll try and not make a habit of it bud! 

 

Way too early to be judging Clare or Wighton imo. Will probably be next season before we see true value of either. Clare gave me the sense in the Derby that he wanted to stand on it, only for the intensity of the occasion to blow him away. That's understandable and not a criticism of him. I'll be interested to learn where he is best deployed idc 

 

Wighton - I expected to have seen more in his game even this early if I'm truthful.  Looks a bit lightweight and not particularly quick. If you are an attacking player in this environment up here and you have neither of the aforementioned attributes, you need a bit of talent otherwise you'll get stifled out of games fairly readily. Levein seen something to covet him for so long so let's wait and see. I see that clown McPake seems to rate him from his time at Dundee 

 

On Mitchell - I agree he's been fairly disappointing for most part.  When you have a player of such apparent quality it's incumbent on the manager to get the best out of them. Like many others, I'm far from convinced over his credentials as a left back. I'm one of those calling for him to play ahead of Garrucio on left hand side. I'd play him and Morrison either side of MacLean and play 3 central mids until we've got further options to choose from. Wighton and Clare are options from the bench for now imo 

 

Can’t disagree with one bit of that.  

 

Only other thing i’d add is CLs apparent reluctance to shift Djoum more central. It’s becoming irritating. 

 

You look back over Djoum’s time and his best games have been pushed up behind the forward(s) or at least when he’s been given a central role to get forward when he can. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

9 hours ago, Mister Dee said:

Not disagreeing with the assessments, but to balance it, there were quite a few on here (not me), who weren’t impressed with Naismith last season -& he’s our main player now. 

 

 

Yip, folk saying he was average, not worth the money and many had him behind Mitchell and Milinkovic in terms of retaining. 

Usually the same posters that were all over CL the entire season. 

 

The brains trust at thier best. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, EastSideJambo said:

I'll try and not make a habit of it bud! 

 

Way too early to be judging Clare or Wighton imo. Will probably be next season before we see true value of either. Clare gave me the sense in the Derby that he wanted to stand on it, only for the intensity of the occasion to blow him away. That's understandable and not a criticism of him. I'll be interested to learn where he is best deployed idc 

 

Wighton - I expected to have seen more in his game even this early if I'm truthful.  Looks a bit lightweight and not particularly quick. If you are an attacking player in this environment up here and you have neither of the aforementioned attributes, you need a bit of talent otherwise you'll get stifled out of games fairly readily. Levein seen something to covet him for so long so let's wait and see. I see that clown McPake seems to rate him from his time at Dundee 

 

On Mitchell - I agree he's been fairly disappointing for most part.  When you have a player of such apparent quality it's incumbent on the manager to get the best out of them. Like many others, I'm far from convinced over his credentials as a left back. I'm one of those calling for him to play ahead of Garrucio on left hand side. I'd play him and Morrison either side of MacLean and play 3 central mids until we've got further options to choose from. Wighton and Clare are options from the bench for now imo 

 

 

 

**** me, you can talk sense. ??

 

 

[EastSideJambo]

2 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Can’t disagree with one bit of that.  

 

Only other thing i’d add is CLs apparent reluctance to shift Djoum more central. It’s becoming irritating. 

 

You look back over Djoum’s time and his best games have been pushed up behind the forward(s) or at least when he’s been given a central role to get forward when he can. 

 

 

Looks to me that using Djoum from the left is a means of getting him on the pitch to some extent.  He evidently isn't comfortable there so a bit odd 

 

I can see why he would want to go with safety of 3 centrally but Djoum could be the most advanced of those 3 if he played Mitchell and Morrison to give us pace and width whilst allowing us to be compact out of possession 

 

We aren't playing to strengths of Djoum and it is drawing some possibly unfair criticism of him. 

 

Commendable of Levein to go with both Wighton and MacLean at weekend. Although the suggestion I make of 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 arguably gives us more attacking intent than 4-4-2 with a guy short of sharpness and confidence in Wighton and Djoum out of position 

 

For whatever reason, Levein is most reticent to try Garrucio and Mitchell together on left side. Got to be worth a shot surely 

[EastSideJambo]

1 minute ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

**** me, you can talk sense. ??

 

 

Whisper it quietly mate! 

 

Someone else wrote it! 

[amadjambo]

7 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Imagine the comments on here from some after Paul Hartley's first few games for us, and he wasn't even returning from a long injury layoff like Clare.

The comments at the time amongst the fans was along the lines of “why are we playing him on the wing.” Fortunately Levein saw sense and stopped that.

[amadjambo]

44 minutes ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

Works both ways, he seen things in maclean that we wouldnt have, Uche etc

 

But Wighton is a very strange one. Especially when we paid.

I’ve been far from impressed with Wighton, but he does need time. If he doesn’t start next season well then that will be his chance gone though.

[Alan_R]

I will probably get shot down with folk giving lots of examples to the contrary but CL seems good at unearthing industrious and determined players to fit his teams.

Kisnorbo, McKenna, Haring, De Vries, Uche etc

Im not sure more lightweight technical players are his forte

[amadjambo]

20 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

Looks to me that using Djoum from the left is a means of getting him on the pitch to some extent.  He evidently isn't comfortable there so a bit odd 

 

I can see why he would want to go with safety of 3 centrally but Djoum could be the most advanced of those 3 if he played Mitchell and Morrison to give us pace and width whilst allowing us to be compact out of possession 

 

We aren't playing to strengths of Djoum and it is drawing some possibly unfair criticism of him. 

 

Commendable of Levein to go with both Wighton and MacLean at weekend. Although the suggestion I make of 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 arguably gives us more attacking intent than 4-4-2 with a guy short of sharpness and confidence in Wighton and Djoum out of position 

 

For whatever reason, Levein is most reticent to try Garrucio and Mitchell together on left side. Got to be worth a shot surely 

I thought Djoum did play in the middle on Saturday. Looked to me that Lee was played in the wide role.

[Ministry of Football]

Bottom line, when you bring in a huge number of players, some will work and others won't.

 

Levein did well this summer and we have picked up some gems, with the likes of Haring. Others however are just not so good and that's just reality.

 

I do think Clare has potential and he was well thought of down South. I think he is being managed well by Levein and he may end up quite a player after the winter break.

 

No matter how many times I see Wighton however, I'm not seeing it. I simply think Levein got this one wrong. I have couple of friends who are Dundee fans and they both say he often flatters to deceive. Apparently, he can be quite good on the ball but he's not someone who can lead the line. He doesn't hold the ball up, he can't jump, he's not a winger, he has no pace and he is lightweight. So in a physical league, we just need someone else. 

 

You can't get them all right, the like of Amankwaa prove this. I would suggest Levein is better at picking more physical players.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Ministry of Football

[Beast Boy]

6 hours ago, EastSideJambo said:

An extra £100,000 seems small change when we are paying out £18,000,000 on stadium redevelopment costs 

 

 

[BobbyJenkins]

21 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

I don’t know the first thing about Sean Clare but he was very highly thought of down south.

People who know way more about Scottish football than me think the same about Wighton. I thought, first half yesterday we saw what Wighton is capable of. 

Be a few weeks before we’ll see better but the wait will be worth it IMO

CL also gets to see them train all week, which we don’t 

This.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, EastSideJambo said:

You are keeping good order here Al 

Aye, it doesn't take much for you to go off on a negative rant

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

As others have said, they’re young and they’ll get better. Probably still settling in. It’s not like there’s a full squad to pick from.