Souttar & Uche out for 5/6 months

[Mark M]

541 for me is our best shout

 

diakoma

smith 

dunne

garrucio

morrisson

haring 

lee

clare 

mitchell

naismith

 

still strong

[Notts1874]

3 minutes ago, Mark M said:

541 for me is our best shout

 

diakoma

smith 

dunne

garrucio

morrisson

haring 

lee

clare 

mitchell

naismith

 

still strong

Might struggle without a goalie.

[Bauld]

For all we know Dikamona and Dunne will be a stronger pairing than Souttar and Dunne. He has appeared very good when coming on as a sub and certainly looks like he can play with the ball at his feet.

 

Plus we have Hughes, he has been good for us when played in the centre. If he can give us back up from the bench when needed that will be a plus.

 

 

It is up front we are going to have to worry about. Uche created the space for others with his powerhouse style. We have nothing else to match that. Wighton is a good player but he isn't a natural goalscorer and is more of a support striker. Naismith is also a support striker as is McLean. 

 

Keena is probably the most natural centre forward we have now.

 

Personally I would play Naismith up front with McLean providing the support and see if his quality is enough to make up for that lack of natural position. Undoubtedly he can score goals if he gets the chance. Failing that give the young lad a chance if we can recall him.

[Pasquale for King]

52 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Hindsight is a wondrous thing. Players can and do get injured all the time. Wanting players to get caps can never be a bad thing.

Ask John Kennedy about that. The fact remains that Uche had a serious injury and was allowed to train and play making the injury worse. I’m not sure if I trust them to have properly diagnosed Souttars Hip injury in the summer which may have been worsened on International duty. 

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Full strength vs everyone please. It’s vital to respond to the rangers defeat and this news with resounding wins.

I’m with you mate and in a perfect world, yes.

 

But reality says he’ll think of tinkering and not risk anymore injury to key players ahead of the semi. 

 

If we didn’t have the semi it would be full strength v Dundee also. 

[redjambo]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Ask John Kennedy about that. The fact remains that Uche had a serious injury and was allowed to train and play making the injury worse. I’m not sure if I trust them to have properly diagnosed Souttars Hip injury in the summer which may have been worsened on International duty. 

 

Do you know that for a fact or are you just making it up to fit your argument? Perhaps it just didn't get any better?

[Inch Hearts]

27 minutes ago, Morgan said:

He wasn't at Dagenham a year ago.

 

And, I thought you were having a dig at the club.   I'm sure you've done that before, if I'm incorrect, I apologise.

 

Im having absolutely no dig at the club as it can’t comprehend for injuries mate.  I don’t share the confidence the back up lad is more than capable of replacing our captain at this time though.  I’m not saying he’s rubbish, I’m not saying I’m thinking he’s a poor signing, I’m saying there’s very little to base the confidence he can replace a player that’s been quoted as going for £5m to an EPL side when he was playing conference football 2 years ago.

[Inch Hearts]

33 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Hey, I'm just pointing out the factual inaccuracy that you're basing your post on.

The Israeli and Greek top tiers are certainly much higher levels than Dagenham.

? sorry mate. 

[Inch Hearts]

35 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

You aren't incorrect in either of your points.

 

Okay, I’ll humour you, where have I posted any digs at the club? And while we are at it how can me saying I don’t share the confidence that we have adequate back up to replace our first choice centre half pairing, both international any sort of dig at the club??? 

[Mikey1874]

29 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Ask John Kennedy about that. The fact remains that Uche had a serious injury and was allowed to train and play making the injury worse. I’m not sure if I trust them to have properly diagnosed Souttars Hip injury in the summer which may have been worsened on International duty. 

 

While we might assume medical assessment and diagnosis is precise it can be difficult.

 

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. The pressure to play from players and the club could be a factor. But I would give the club more leeway. 

[portobellojambo1]

2 hours ago, Hood09 said:

This could all be a big rouse and out they both pop for the Celtic game at Murrayfield. Imagine Celtic planning not to play against Uche and then out he pops....

 

I had similar sort of thoughts at work today, but I think they were thoughts of hope rather than expectation. We just have to get on with it and make best use of the players we have, and hope some can step up to the mark. I just hope Craig doesn't think it means we will have to move away from the style we have been playing this season so far, which I've enjoyed. Yes, the result at Ibrox was a bit disappointing, even if possibly expected, but I think reality is a huge chunk of confidence evaporated with the very early goal. There are options available to change the back line, with Dikimona, Smith and Hughes available, even Haring at a push, although I'd prefer him to remain playing in front of the back line. Uche will be a big miss up front, he is one of those players who attracts defenders, whether he is playing good or not so good, and that in itself creates more space for others around him. We just need to come up with another pairing, rather than revert to playing one up front on their own, something which hasn't really worked at all since Kevin Kyle dropped out the team.

Edited October 18, 2018 by portobellojambo1

[Jamhammer]

Cack news. Just have to get on with it. It’s never players you can do without who get injured though is it?

[Roxy Hearts]

Gutted! We never get any luck. 

[augusthearts]

Bad news - unlucky also with the lengths of injury layoffs being cited. 

[Mikey1874]

44 minutes ago, augusthearts said:

Bad news - unlucky also with the lengths of injury layoffs being cited. 

 

Hopefully one or both will be back sooner 

 

They are both young 

[dode]

Bad news , amazing how much delight our rivals are taking in this news .

we need to win our next couple of games to lay the marker for the semi.

 

[jambocolin]

Yip it’s a sore one but we are moving the ball well can’t wait until next weekend HHGH first post ever on Kickback x

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

While we might assume medical assessment and diagnosis is precise it can be difficult.

 

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. The pressure to play from players and the club could be a factor. But I would give the club more leeway. 

I think the medical department has had enough leeway over the last few years, mistakes have been made and the lessons haven’t been learnt. 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think the medical department has had enough leeway over the last few years, mistakes have been made and the lessons haven’t been learnt. 

Let's be honest though, we have literally no actual knowledge of what information these highly qualified professionals had access to or what decisions have been made on that information. 

If there's been an arse made of this it'll get dealt with, thankfully better people than you or I are in charge of the club, and they're not starting from a position of ignorance 

 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think the medical department has had enough leeway over the last few years, mistakes have been made and the lessons haven’t been learnt. 

 

Perhaps you ought to contact the club and talk over your concerns with them.

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

While we might assume medical assessment and diagnosis is precise it can be difficult.

 

I'm not saying there isn't a problem. The pressure to play from players and the club could be a factor. But I would give the club more leeway. 

I think the medical department has had enough leeway over the last few years, mistakes have been made and the lessons haven’t been learnt. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

Let's be honest though, we have literally no actual knowledge of what information these highly qualified professionals had access to or what decisions have been made on that information. 

If there's been an arse made of this it'll get dealt with, thankfully better people than you or I are in charge of the club, and they're not starting from a position of ignorance 

 

Speak for yourself, better qualified yes but I’m not starting from a position of ignorance. Not only do I have a qualified sports scientist and Uefa pro licence holder in my family but I work with a qualified sports psychologist who works for the club in the video analysis department, their advice and insight is extremely useful.

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes, he trained. But you still haven't shown that the training made his injury worse.

I would imagine the 90 minutes that he was allowed to play made the injury worse, I’ve answered every question you asked and you have still won’t have it. Do you work in the medical department or related to one of them? If the DoF doesn’t realise there’s a problem then he’s unlikely to listen to me or anyone else. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Im having absolutely no dig at the club as it can’t comprehend for injuries mate.  I don’t share the confidence the back up lad is more than capable of replacing our captain at this time though.  I’m not saying he’s rubbish, I’m not saying I’m thinking he’s a poor signing, I’m saying there’s very little to base the confidence he can replace a player that’s been quoted as going for £5m to an EPL side when he was playing conference football 2 years ago.

 

Soapy was playing for Dundee Utd reserves 2 years ago. Haring proves where they were playing last isn’t always a reliable indicator of their quality.

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Soapy was playing for Dundee Utd reserves 2 years ago. Haring proves where they were playing last isn’t always a reliable indicator of their quality.

We signed Souttar in January 2016, he was a first team player at United from 2013 so wasn’t really in their reserves. He’s never played a full season for either team yet though. Clevid hasn’t played many games but hopefully he can do the job, Hughes hasn’t played 90 minutes this season. 

[Skacelsid]

Saturdays game is the immediate priority, and we must go with the strongest available. The best preparation for the cup semi would be a good performance and result from what will be a tough test. Replacing Uche is more of a dilemma than Souttar I feel. If as I suspect we revert to one main striker, the midfield and wide players must carry the threat and not isolate that striker. We will have to work hard when not in possession, but containment alone will not work for the tough tests we have coming up. You think you have strength in depth but Uche is a bit different and hard to cover for, we could have held on to Keena, though he is just back from injury, and Vanacek will arrive but we have to get on with it and some will have to step up. We can compensate for the big man through good football with pace, movement and passing. PS great ticket sales response for the Cup Semi from the Jambos, well done all.

[kingantti1874]

3 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think the medical department has had enough leeway over the last few years, mistakes have been made and the lessons haven’t been learnt. 

 

You havent read leveins explanarion. Had multiple x rays and scans which showed no fracture. Only referral to a specialist in london after pain persisted aftrr the rangers game highlighted the possibility of fracture is unlikely bit of the foot and they had to get uche to apply weight and twist to highlight miniscukt fracture in bizarre area. Usually injury occurs if foot is crushed rather than impact.. It was also alight enough that uche played with a little discomfort and was still able to play agianst aberdeen

 

I think our fitness team will sleep comfortably and wont be too bothered about you not cutting them Slack

[Debut 4]

36 minutes ago, Skacelsid said:

Saturdays game is the immediate priority, and we must go with the strongest available. The best preparation for the cup semi would be a good performance and result from what will be a tough test. Replacing Uche is more of a dilemma than Souttar I feel. If as I suspect we revert to one main striker, the midfield and wide players must carry the threat and not isolate that striker. We will have to work hard when not in possession, but containment alone will not work for the tough tests we have coming up. You think you have strength in depth but Uche is a bit different and hard to cover for, we could have held on to Keena, though he is just back from injury, and Vanacek will arrive but we have to get on with it and some will have to step up. We can compensate for the big man through good football with pace, movement and passing. PS great ticket sales response for the Cup Semi from the Jambos, well done all.

It’s a hard one for the club. I did suspect we were hoping to get to January unscathed and with Vanacek coming in , we were all set upfront. 

 

Bringing in another Uche type before the window shut would’ve presented a selection problem once Vanacek arrived. 

 

Not that I would’ve complained but from a financial and squad balance angle, I can understand why the club stuck with the forward options it had.

 

Wighton is there but it’s been a lukewarm start for him and not in the mould of a bustling striker. 

 

 

[gashauskis9]

Still waiting for the Motherwell keeper (who missed no games despite his feared broken ankle) to make an apology here.

[Unknown user]

5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Speak for yourself, better qualified yes but I’m not starting from a position of ignorance. Not only do I have a qualified sports scientist and Uefa pro licence holder in my family but I work with a qualified sports psychologist who works for the club in the video analysis department, their advice and insight is extremely useful.

Ok, so tell us the detailed knowledge you have of their injuries and the mistakes that have been made.

 

[Skacelsid]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

It’s a hard one for the club. I did suspect we were hoping to get to January unscathed and with Vanacek coming in , we were all set upfront. 

 

Bringing in another Uche type before the window shut would’ve presented a selection problem once Vanacek arrived. 

 

Not that I would’ve complained but from a financial and squad balance angle, I can understand why the club stuck with the forward options it had.

 

Wighton is there but it’s been a lukewarm start for him and not in the mould of a bustling striker. 

 

 

 Yes D4 that's football for you. Uche will not be replaced like for like but maybe with a change to a more mobile style. Wighton may have to step up and interestingly CL says Clare is ready, Saturdays selection will be interesting and maybe the solution is already at the club.

[SpikeDudley]

if Uche has only got a fractured foot, why is he out for so long?

[Taffin]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Speak for yourself, better qualified yes but I’m not starting from a position of ignorance. Not only do I have a qualified sports scientist and Uefa pro licence holder in my family but I work with a qualified sports psychologist who works for the club in the video analysis department, their advice and insight is extremely useful.

 

 

A little knowledge is often more dangerous as they say...

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, SpikeDudley said:

if Uche has only got a fractured foot, why is he out for so long?

 

Im hoping they are exaggerating a bit, said berra was out for 6 months and the man himself says back in another 6 weeks.. Fingers crossed 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

A little knowledge is often more dangerous as they say...

His next post after the one you quoted starts with "I would imagine the 90 minutes that he was allowed to play made the injury worse". Not exactly indicative of an in depth knowledge of the situation. 

 

He may know slightly more than you or I, but definitely much much much less then the paid professionals treating the injury or the people in charge of the club who hold them to account. 

As I said, if they've made an arse of this, the club won't just let it go, but there's nothing but innuendo to suggest that's the case. 

[Taffin]

28 minutes ago, Smithee said:

His next post after the one you quoted starts with "I would imagine the 90 minutes that he was allowed to play made the injury worse". Not exactly indicative of an in depth knowledge of the situation. 

 

He may know slightly more than you or I, but definitely much much much less then the paid professionals treating the injury or the people in charge of the club who hold them to account. 

As I said, if they've made an arse of this, the club won't just let it go, but there's nothing but innuendo to suggest that's the case. 

 

 

No disagreement on any of that from me ?

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, SpikeDudley said:

if Uche has only got a fractured foot, why is he out for so long?

Probably he has big feet so it takes longer to heal.

[Captain Sausage]

7 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Probably he has big feet so it takes longer to heal.

 

Science. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, SpikeDudley said:

if Uche has only got a fractured foot, why is he out for so long?

Specialist equipment is needed to operate on Uche, they're waiting for a mining company in South Africa to return the hire. 

[August Landmesser]

EEN has an interview with CL about both injuries here, including an explanation (quoted below) of why Uche's was so hard to diagnose. Long story short, you can drive a car over Uche and he'll still play football... 

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-boss-craig-levein-explains-nature-of-souttar-ikpeazu-injuries-1-4816824

 

"Ikpeazu suffered his injury in the well-documented challenge with Carson in the lead-up to Steven Naismith’s match-winning goal away to Motherwell five weeks ago. The severity of it was finally discovered this week after pain had continued to plague the big striker throughout the past month. “It’s quite an obscure injury, a fracture in an area of his foot that is really difficult to detect,” said Levein. “We’ve had scans, X-rays and CTs and he’s constantly had pain during it all. We sent the images down to the leading specialist in London, James Calder, and he said there was a very small chance – our physio had already suggested it – but getting the scan to show something wrong it has to be done when the foot is under stress. Rather than take an X-ray of the foot he had to stand in a certain position that created the shift in the bone that allowed us to recognise the injury. It’s normally an injury associated with a car driving over someone’s foot.” After a three-game absence, Ikpeazu returned to the team for the defeat to Rangers at Ibrox a week past Sunday and played the full 90 minutes. The bustling former Cambridge United striker was ready to face Aberdeen tomorrow until his shock diagnosis. “He didn’t feel great during the Rangers game but he played,” said Levein. “He was still in pain up to the Rangers game, he played in that and the pain was still there afterwards. But he was going to play on Saturday – that is how tough a boy he is. He’s started the season so well and was feeling really strong, having worked really hard to get himself fit over the summer and lose a lot of weight, and has been a revelation.”

[redjambo]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I would imagine the 90 minutes that he was allowed to play made the injury worse, I’ve answered every question you asked and you have still won’t have it. Do you work in the medical department or related to one of them? If the DoF doesn’t realise there’s a problem then he’s unlikely to listen to me or anyone else. 

 

You "would imagine". Right you are.

 

No, I don't work in the medical department. However, it is obvious here that you are making accusations against the club regarding this issue without giving the club the right to reply, which isn't particularly fair. In the words of the old maxim, you should "put up or shut up". If you do indeed have our club's best interests at heart then you should contact the club and discuss your concerns with them. Otherwise, it just seems that you have an agenda and are intent, for some reason, on stirring it.

[Doc Rob]

9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Speak for yourself, better qualified yes but I’m not starting from a position of ignorance. Not only do I have a qualified sports scientist and Uefa pro licence holder in my family but I work with a qualified sports psychologist who works for the club in the video analysis department, their advice and insight is extremely useful.

 

Hate to be blunt, but 1. Neither of these people is you, 2. Sports Science is not the same thing as Sports & Exercise Medicine, and 3. Sports psychology has literally nothing to do with physical diagnosis and management.

 

You're not qualified to judge this and neither of your information sources are either. So you should probably wind your neck in.

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

You havent read leveins explanarion. Had multiple x rays and scans which showed no fracture. Only referral to a specialist in london after pain persisted aftrr the rangers game highlighted the possibility of fracture is unlikely bit of the foot and they had to get uche to apply weight and twist to highlight miniscukt fracture in bizarre area. Usually injury occurs if foot is crushed rather than impact.. It was also alight enough that uche played with a little discomfort and was still able to play agianst aberdeen

 

I think our fitness team will sleep comfortably and wont be too bothered about you not cutting them Slack

I didn’t think they would lose sleep, like you don’t about your typing/spelling/grammar etc. Glad it was explained that they couldn’t find out what was wrong though.

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Smithee said:

Ok, so tell us the detailed knowledge you have of their injuries and the mistakes that have been made.

 

I’ve already posted what I know, if you can’t be bothered to read it I can’t be bothered retyping it.

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

 

A little knowledge is often more dangerous as they say...

Not a problem you will ever have had them ?

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

You "would imagine". Right you are.

 

No, I don't work in the medical department. However, it is obvious here that you are making accusations against the club regarding this issue without giving the club the right to reply, which isn't particularly fair. In the words of the old maxim, you should "put up or shut up". If you do indeed have our club's best interests at heart then you should contact the club and discuss your concerns with them. Otherwise, it just seems that you have an agenda and are intent, for some reason, on stirring it.

Please don’t ever question my support for my one and only football team. My agenda is that I want the very best for the club, to break the stranglehold of the ugly sisters and these injuries are hampering that especially this season when everything is up for grabs. If you or anyone else is happy within mediocrity and a top 4 finish that’s fine, don’t criticise the rest of us who want it all. My anger at losing these players is no doubt clouding my judgement whilst I look for someone to blame. I’ve been in touch a few times over the last few years( handrails for the bottom part of the new stand in the first three games, watching old guys struggle up and down was scary) and had no response I’m afraid, no big deal.

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’ve already posted what I know, if you can’t be bothered to read it I can’t be bothered retyping it.

Yeah, I read it, you know a psychologist who works in video analysis at the club, that's your source.

 

Ann and Craig's sources are better then yours, they know more about this than you. If they think something needs done they'll do it, and it'll be based on much more information than you have at your disposal. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Doc Rob said:

 

Hate to be blunt, but 1. Neither of these people is you, 2. Sports Science is not the same thing as Sports & Exercise Medicine, and 3. Sports psychology has literally nothing to do with physical diagnosis and management.

 

You're not qualified to judge this and neither of your information sources are either. So you should probably wind your neck in.

Your hero Doctor House goes through the various diagnoses, pity our medical department didbt watch the show. With that grammar I don’t think you are qualified to talk about it either Doc, don’t tell me what to do ok.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Yeah, I read it, you know a psychologist who works in video analysis at the club, that's your source.

 

Ann and Craig's sources are better then yours, they know more about this than you. If they think something needs done they'll do it, and it'll be based on much more information than you have at your disposal. 

You haven’t read all my posts as I’ve specified problems from last season that clearly haven’t been rectified, I only asked these two folk late yesterday to find out what they think. As CL has explained the process fully it seems the people we employ couldn’t find out was wrong with Uche “we FIINALLY got to the bottom of the problem” said a

clearly frustrated CL. Whether Uche made the problem worse by training and playing is difficult to ascertain but it would seem likely don’t you think? I think changes are likely in the department.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

You haven’t read all my posts as I’ve specified problems from last season that clearly haven’t been rectified, I only asked these two folk late yesterday to find out what they think. As CL has explained the process fully it seems the people we employ couldn’t find out was wrong with Uche “we FIINALLY got to the bottom of the problem” said a

clearly frustrated CL. Whether Uche made the problem worse by training and playing is difficult to ascertain but it would seem likely don’t you think? I think changes are likely in the department.

I'll say once more then leave you to it - you're talking from a position of ignorance compared to those in charge at the club, intelligent people who care about the club's welfare. 

If something needs done I trust them to do it, I'm not going to mob up because of innuendo from some radge on the internet.