Poor ickle snowflake

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Junta said:

Years ago, i remember after work on quiet Monday night, i nipped into a pub in the Grassmarket for a quick drink. Just as i finished my beer and was about to leave, i noticed there was a girl sitting crying at a table. I saw she was drinking a bottle of Becks. I bought one and gave her it and a tissue and said something along the lines of, "hope you feel better soon". Then walked out. I heard her say thank you.

 

All of a sudden, i feel like a deviant ?

 

This is a fine example of what you should actually do. Very well played on your part, this is a great example of human kindness.

 

Can folk not see the difference between this and telling women they should smile more? One involves empathy, the other is unwelcome advice.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Ugly American said:

 

This is a fine example of what you should actually do. Very well played on your part, this is a great example of human kindness.

 

Can folk not see the difference between this and telling women they should smile more? One involves empathy, the other is unwelcome advice.

Yet if the girl (more accurately surely the woman) had reacted (reasonably enough in her apparently distraught condition) by telling him to mind his own ****ing business and that she could buy her own beer thanks very much, he would be a creepy weirdo.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Junta said:

Years ago, i remember after work on quiet Monday night, i nipped into a pub in the Grassmarket for a quick drink. Just as i finished my beer and was about to leave, i noticed there was a girl sitting crying at a table. I saw she was drinking a bottle of Becks. I bought one and gave her it and a tissue and said something along the lines of, "hope you feel better soon". Then walked out. I heard her say thank you.

 

 

That was a kind thing to do.  I don't see why you or anyone else would need the "deviant" chat, TBH.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

But how will these wee lassies even know they have a nice smile if we don't tell them? ?

 

 

****.

 

 

That's ME telt.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

29 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

That was a kind thing to do.  I don't see why you or anyone else would need the "deviant" chat, TBH.

And I don't see why you or anyone else would in quoting his or her post delete the so called "deviant chat" which was clearly the main point of his or her post.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Yet if the girl (more accurately surely the woman) had reacted (reasonably enough in her apparently distraught condition) by telling him to mind his own ****ing business and that she could buy her own beer thanks very much, he would be a creepy weirdo.

 

Let's put it this way -- I have heard at least three dozen women, possibly more, complain about having been told to smile or similar.

 

I have never heard one complain about being bought a beer.

 

It's almost as if some folks are trying hard to not understand the point.

[Ulysses]

7 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

It's almost as if some folks are trying hard to not understand the point.

 

UA, you're not heeding my advice.

 

Heed my advice, and all will be well.   

[Bridge of Djoum]

I can't be the only one seeing the irony in i8 calling people ''snowflakes'' when, if you look at the threads and posts over the years, it's him who appears to be offended by more things than anyone else!

[FWJ]

7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

That was a kind thing to do.  I don't see why you or anyone else would need the "deviant" chat, TBH.

But if the young woman, instead, had said ‘mind your own business and I can buy my own beer you condescending busybody’ how would you feel about it then?

It seems to be that it all depends on how the recipient interprets the words or actions.

 

I’ve been told on many occasions to “cheer up love it might not happen”, invariably by women.  Maybe it’s becsuse I’m a naïve hick from the sticks but I’ve always interpreted their words as well-meaning if perhaps unwelcome at the time.

Some people are pretty gauche, but most people are well-intentioned.

 

Edit:  I should add I think what Junta did was kind too.

Edited October 11, 2018 by FWJ

[i8hibsh]

6 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

I can't be the only one seeing the irony in i8 calling people ''snowflakes'' when, if you look at the threads and posts over the years, it's him who appears to be offended by more things than anyone else!

 

 

Angrey is not mutually exclusive to offended

Offended is not mutually exclusive to snowflake

 

 

I hate hatred, it is not to be confused with being offended.  As for snowflake, mine are well and truly strapped on Djoumy my man.

[i8hibsh]

11 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

This is a fine example of what you should actually do. Very well played on your part, this is a great example of human kindness.

 

Can folk not see the difference between this and telling women they should smile more? One involves empathy, the other is unwelcome advice.

 

 

Thing is you can't win imo.  You buy a girl a drink and you want in her pants.

[Mr Sifter]

12 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

This is a fine example of what you should actually do. Very well played on your part, this is a great example of human kindness.

 

Can folk not see the difference between this and telling women they should smile more? One involves empathy, the other is unwelcome advice.

 

There’s no distinction between the two. None whatsoever.

[doctor jambo]

51 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Thing is you can't win imo.  You buy a girl a drink and you want in her pants.

Seemingly they are all so scared of being raped she probably had the beer tested for rohypnol.

 

NO wonder the world is full of depression and mental illness, loneliness and isolation.

When acts of kindness make people uneasy.

I think the nub of the matter is she did not fancy the guy, so the attention was unwanted.

Yes there are lots of creeps out there

but we are not all creeps

and yes the girl  has feelings, but her reaction has been hyperbolic and excessive

[i8hibsh]

9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Seemingly they are all so scared of being raped she probably had the beer tested for rohypnol.

 

NO wonder the world is full of depression and mental illness, loneliness and isolation.

When acts of kindness make people uneasy.

I think the nub of the matter is she did not fancy the guy, so the attention was unwanted.

Yes there are lots of creeps out there

but we are not all creeps

and yes the girl  has feelings, but her reaction has been hyperbolic and excessive

 

 

Guys really get a bad rep right now and it sucks.  The vast vast vast majority of blokes mean well, are not sex offenders and have honourbale intentions.

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Guys really get a bad rep right now and it sucks.  The vast vast vast majority of blokes mean well, are not sex offenders and have honourbale intentions.

Many moons ago, in a land before kids and all that, even when my intentions were dishonourable, I could still take a hint.

Good looking women are always going to get attention- some wanted and some not so.

Same applies to men

Less fortunate women not so much, and I'm sure that annoys them in equal measure ( in my experience the people hardest on women are women- and good looking women get all kinds of nastiness from other women in buckets!)

We could all improve, but in this case the dude clearly crossed no discernible line that would warrant criticism

[i8hibsh]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

Many moons ago, in a land before kids and all that, even when my intentions were dishonourable, I could still take a hint.

Good looking women are always going to get attention- some wanted and some not so.

Same applies to men

Less fortunate women not so much, and I'm sure that annoys them in equal measure ( in my experience the people hardest on women are women- and good looking women get all kinds of nastiness from other women in buckets!)

We could all improve, but in this case the dude clearly crossed no discernible line that would warrant criticism

 

Thing is these men haters don't get is no-one likes rapists and wife beaters.

 

In a prison which houses some of the absolute decay of society, do you know where rapists and wife beaters are in the prison hierarchy?  The absolute bottom.  

 

Do you know what men do when they find out another bloke is a wife beater or rapist? Contrary to what these feminists think, we don’t high five them and buy them a beer, we beat the absolute shit out of them.

 

Men don’t like rapists and wife beaters much.

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

 

We could all improve, but in this case the dude clearly crossed no discernible line that would warrant criticism

 

He's a creepy weirdo. 

 

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Thing is these men haters don't get is no-one likes rapists and wife beaters.

 

In a prison which houses some of the absolute decay of society, do you know where rapists and wife beaters are in the prison hierarchy?  The absolute bottom.  

 

Do you know what men do when they find out another bloke is a wife beater or rapist? Contrary to what these feminists think, we don’t high five them and buy them a beer, we beat the absolute shit out of them.

 

Men don’t like rapists  wife beaters much.

The SFA does.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Bridge of Djoum

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Bridge of Djoum said:

The SFA does.

 

 

touche

[doctor jambo]

5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

He's a creepy weirdo. 

 

 

Where's Elon Musk when you need a good put down

[Francis Albert]

It is a pity but maybe inevitable on a football forum that there is only one clear female voice in this debate. Plus a few forceful male arbiters of what women should react to and how. It is quite likely that UA as he  infers (brags?) has a larger circle of female acquaintances than I do  but even in my circle women's views are rarely unanimous on any topic including their attitude to interaction with men. For example I know some who welcome attention and invite it and would be disappointed if for example  a good looking waiter did not flatter them in some way if only by giving them more attention than others. Of course many would find such attention annoying or embarrassing. As for the two examples widely quoted I think as many would find being bought an unsolicited drink while  sitting minding their own business at least as  or maybe more annoying or disturbing as the action of the guy on the train despite the fulsome praise by some men on here for the "kind act" of the former.

I can't think of any who would go to the trouble or feel so strongly as to make a video about the experience.

 

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

It is a pity but maybe inevitable on a football forum that there is only one clear female voice in this debate. Plus a few forceful male arbiters of what women should react to and how. It is quite likely that UA as he  infers (brags?) has a larger circle of female acquaintances than I do  but even in my circle women's views are rarely unanimous on any topic including their attitude to interaction with men. For example I know some who welcome attention and invite it and would be disappointed if for example  a good looking waiter did not flatter them in some way if only by giving them more attention than others. Of course many would find such attention annoying or embarrassing. As for the two examples widely quoted I think as many would find being bought an unsolicited drink while  sitting minding their own business at least as  or maybe more annoying or disturbing as the action of the guy on the train despite the fulsome praise by some men on here for the "kind act" of the former.

I can't think of any who would go to the trouble or feel so strongly as to make a video about the experience.

 

UA has a large circle of friends, its true, many female- that too may be true, but I suspect many are of his non-centrist religious views- and many people with harder line religious views can only see male-female interactions through this prism.

Perhaps if women cannot be complimented on their appearance as all men are unable to control themselves from libidinous urges then the Burqa and male chaperoning is the way ahead, certainly on public transport.

The girls father/uncle/bother could have stopped the suitor from even looking at her, let alone invading her personal space

[Seymour M Hersh]

10 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

UA, you're not heeding my advice.

 

Heed my advice, and all will be well.   

 

 

[i8hibsh]

34 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

He's a creepy weirdo. 

 

 

 

 

He got stitched up big time.  By all accounts, a lovely (if eccentric) man who kept himslef to himslef

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

He got stitched up big time.  By all accounts, a lovely (if eccentric) man who kept himslef to himslef

Yes it was disgusted how he was villifed because of his looks and eccentricity. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by JamesM48

[i8hibsh]

14 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes it was disgusted how he was villifed because of his looks and eccentricity. 

 

 

The old classic "he looks like a murderer".

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

The old classic "he looks like a murderer".

Yep...no one said that about Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer....crazy...same also goes for " peados" as apparently they are all as ugly as sin so easy to spot.....!!

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

UA has a large circle of friends, its true, many female- that too may be true, but I suspect many are of his non-centrist religious views- and many people with harder line religious views can only see male-female interactions through this prism.

Perhaps if women cannot be complimented on their appearance as all men are unable to control themselves from libidinous urges then the Burqa and male chaperoning is the way ahead, certainly on public transport.

The girls father/uncle/bother could have stopped the suitor from even looking at her, let alone invading her personal space

 

 behave. My comment about the beer was not based on my "non-centrist religious views" (what does that even mean?) but on my long and unglorious career as an inveterate barfly. 

 

For those who are really struggling with this (TBH not sure if Mr. Sifter is being sarcastic or is really struggling), let's break this down.

 

Telling someone to smile is not complimenting them on their appearance. It's unsolicited advice. Most people don't like getting advice from people they know, advice from rando strangers is even worse. Okay, let me know if I lost you there, but that's a big piece. (I'm not going to get into "compliments" on appearance here, as that will get into catcalling, an entirely different creepy thing to do.)

 

Now beyond that, telling someone to smile is telling them to act happy even if they're not feeling happy. That's not necessarily a sexist thing to do so much as it is just bad and unwelcome advice, but for some reason unbeknownst to me, some men feel compelled to say that to women more often, when they never say it to men.

 

So that's two reasons not to tell someone to smile, regardless of whether you're trying to get laid or not. Good?

 

 

Now let's talk about why this young fellow is either not trying to get laid or is doing an incredibly terrible job at it.

 

He handed her the note *as he got off the train*. He wrote "wait 10 seconds" to open it. He didn't leave a number. Even if by some unlikely miracle the woman in question found this charming, he's gone. There's no way for her to respond and say, "yes, you're right, my silly woman brain didn't realize I should have been smiling that whole time despite the fact that the dug is sick, would you come over for a roll in the hay this afternoon and maybe give me other tips on life?"

 

So see, he's not even trying to pick her up.

 

 

Now our actual gentleman Junta with the beer. Here's all the things he did right:

- He took an assessment of the situation and took time to figure out what she might actually enjoy (her beer brand).

- He offered condolences and hopes that things get better, rather than unsolicited advice. That was a demonstration of empathy rather than criticism.

- He offered the beer *on the way out the door*, thereby making it clear he didn't want anything in return. ("See, I bought you a beer, now you have to actually talk to me while I hit on you.")

 

Thoughtful, kind gesture, presented with empathy and without expectation of reciprocation.

 

I mean these are basic social skills, not some deep Secret Code Of Lady Whispering.

[Francis Albert]

Despite the certainty of expression in UA's latest post there is a lot you could contest. But to keep it short just one example, his so called "big piece". He rightly says unsolicited advice is often unwelcome even from people you know but it is much worse coming from "rando strangers".

In the story of the man in the bar isn't the stranger, uninvited (and without even asking her if she wants one),  plonking  a beer in front of the woman giving unsolicited advice to "have another beer"?

I read Mr Sifter as being serious (and correct) in claiming there is little if any difference between the case of the so called creepy weirdo on the train and the so called kind and empathic gentleman in the bar.

[Ulysses]

14 hours ago, FWJ said:

But if the young woman, instead, had said ‘mind your own business and I can buy my own beer you condescending busybody’ how would you feel about it then?

 

She would have been well within her rights to express her opinion, but it would have been rude to do it in that way.

[Ulysses]

9 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

 

 

u ok hun?

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

u ok hun?

 

Never better! 

[FWJ]

31 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

She would have been well within her rights to express her opinion, but it would have been rude to do it in that way.

As opposed to taking it to a (potentially) global audience?

Not keeping it gender-neutral bugs me too.  “Telling women to smile is not okay”.   Is telling men to smile fine?  

I was on a train last week.  The woman doing the tea trolley called me “sweetheart”.  I felt patronised and humiliated.  The first thing I did was to go onto social media to express my outrage at this condescending sexism.  I was stopped in my tracks though because the guy opposite me asked if he could have a plastic glass for the drink he’d taken on the train himself.  She said she shouldn’t really, but she would because “he had such a nice smile”.

Can you imagine!

 

I’m normally a wish-washy pinko Guardian-reading liberal.  But there are bigger fights than this.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by FWJ

[jake]

11 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Guys really get a bad rep right now and it sucks.  The vast vast vast majority of blokes mean well, are not sex offenders and have honourbale intentions.

? 

 

Gus get a really bad rep.

 

????? 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

16 minutes ago, jake said:

?

 

Gus get a really bad rep.

 

????? 

 

 

 

 

Guys have it pretty darn tough in the grand scheme of things.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Guys have it pretty darn tough in the grand scheme of things.

 

In what way?

[Ulysses]

44 minutes ago, FWJ said:

As opposed to taking it to a (potentially) global audience?

 

You asked a hypothetical question, and I told you what I thought.  You don't disagree with my assessment, do you?  If the rest is an attempt to get me to change my mind, it probably won't work.  Probably. 

 

In the scenario you described, that woman's behaviour would have been poor.  Regardless of how the bloke reacted afterwards, her behaviour would still have been poor.  Likewise with the case in the OP.  IMO the guy was out of order.  Whether the woman dealt with it well or badly, IMO he was still out of order. 

 

And the wider point I was making is that - again, IMO - if guys like us are going to get annoyed, we'd be better directing our annoyance towards those men who contribute to women feeling uncomfortable and nervous instead of directing it towards the women who feel uncomfortable and nervous.

[Francis Albert]

44 minutes ago, jake said:

?

 

Gus get a really bad rep.

 

????? 

 

 

Poor old Gus.

 

Seriously, I don't agree that guys (men as I prefer to call them) get a bad deal compared to girls and lasses (or women as I prefer to call them). I think on the whole women get a worse deal. But what I can't agree with and find objectionable is the stereotyping of men and women which I think insults both. Women encompass a whole spectrum (of behaviour, beliefs and attitudes) as do men. Ludicrous assertions such that men only ever tell women to "cheer up it will never happen " but never tell men to do the same is just so far adrift from my experience that I find it hard to take seriously anyone who makes that assertion.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Francis Albert

[i8hibsh]

19 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

In what way?

 

v women you mean?

 

More likely to die younger (probably could stop there as that is as tough as it gets)

More likely to die at work

More likely to be homeless

More likely to be murdered

Less likely to go on to further education

More likely to be the victim of violence

Less likely to get custody of their children

More likely to work till an older age

More likely to have a heart attack.

More likely to pick up the tab

More likely to go to jail

Less likely to seek counselling

More likely to commit suicide

More likely to be stressed

More likely to work more hours

More likely to see the kids less

Less likely to go to the doctors

More likely to be obese

Less likely to receive a compliment

More likely to go bankrupt

Less likely to be saved on a sinking ship

More likely to go to war

More likely to become an alcoholic

More likely to become a drug addict

More likely to be depressed

More likely to pay more after a divorce

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by i8hibsh

[jake]

39 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Guys have it pretty darn tough in the grand scheme of things.

So does a woman.

 

So does any living thing.

 

Sorry i8

I just don't get the men as victims slant.

 

 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

19 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

v women you mean?

 

More likely to die younger (probably could stop there as that is as tough as it gets)

More likely to die at work

More likely to be homeless

More likely to be murdered

Less likely to go on to further education

More likely to be the victim of violence

Less likely to get custody of their children

More likely to work till an older age

More likely to have a heart attack.

More likely to pick up the tab

More likely to go to jail

Less likely to seek counselling

More likely to commit suicide

More likely to be stressed

More likely to work more hours

More likely to see the kids less

Less likely to go to the doctors

More likely to be obese

Less likely to receive a compliment

More likely to go bankrupt

Less likely to be saved on a sinking ship

More likely to go to war

More likely to become an alcoholic

More likely to become a drug addict

More likely to be depressed

More likely to pay more after a divorce

 

 

 

 

 

 

Impressive response tbf. ?

 

?

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, jake said:

So does a woman.

 

So does any living thing.

 

Sorry i8

I just don't get the men as victims slant.

 

 

 

 

Women have it tougher than men. At no stage in my life have I ever said anything to the contrary. My point is that being male is no walk in the park.

[FWJ]

25 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

You asked a hypothetical question, and I told you what I thought.  You don't disagree with my assessment, do you?  If the rest is an attempt to get me to change my mind, it probably won't work.  Probably. 

 

In the scenario you described, that woman's behaviour would have been poor.  Regardless of how the bloke reacted afterwards, her behaviour would still have been poor.  Likewise with the case in the OP.  IMO the guy was out of order.  Whether the woman dealt with it well or badly, IMO he was still out of order. 

 

And the wider point I was making is that - again, IMO - if guys like us are going to get annoyed, we'd be better directing our annoyance towards those men who contribute to women feeling uncomfortable and nervous instead of directing it towards the women who feel uncomfortable and nervous.

It wasn’t a “scenario”.  It happened last Sunday.  And of course I wasn’t offended, and of course the guy opposite didn’t appear to be either.  She was being friendly and fun.  I couldn’t imagine being offended by that.  Most people are nice and good.  Or at least not bad. And, trying to avoid sounding like I knit my own hemp sandals, if more people thought like that the world would maybe be a better place.

 

 

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, FWJ said:

It wasn’t a “scenario”.  It happened last Sunday.  And of course I wasn’t offended, and of course the guy opposite didn’t appear to be either.  She was being friendly and fun. 

 

 

 

 

Ah, we have crossed wires.  When I mentioned the scenario you described, I wasn't talking about the woman operating the tea trolley.  I was referring to where you asked "But if the young woman, instead, had said ‘mind your own business and I can buy my own beer you condescending busybody’ how would you feel about it then?"

 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Guys have it pretty darn tough in the grand scheme of things.

Aw boohoo. Man up ffs, snowflake. 

[FWJ]

14 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Ah, we have crossed wires.  When I mentioned the scenario you described, I wasn't talking about the woman operating the tea trolley.  I was referring to where you asked "But if the young woman, instead, had said ‘mind your own business and I can buy my own beer you condescending busybody’ how would you feel about it then?"

 

Ah, ok.

If I was being uncharitable I’d say he was gauche.  But I still think he was probably well-intentioned.

And, as has been said above, anyone who thinks this is just a thing that men say to women (for good or ill) is very wrong.

[Ulysses]

25 minutes ago, FWJ said:

 

If I was being uncharitable I’d say he was gauche.  But I still think he was probably well-intentioned.

 

 

On reflection I see what you mean, though I'd be more inclined to see gauche as a charitable view rather than an uncharitable one.

 

Aside from the nasty extremes of behaviour, we shouldn't underestimate the lower level unwanted attention that a lot of women encounter from men.  We might not understand it or acknowledge it because it doesn't happen to us, but it is a real thing and it does make a lot of women wary.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

29 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

On reflection I see what you mean, though I'd be more inclined to see gauche as a charitable view rather than an uncharitable one.

 

Aside from the nasty extremes of behaviour, we shouldn't underestimate the lower level unwanted attention that a lot of women encounter from men.  We might not understand it or acknowledge it because it doesn't happen to us, but it is a real thing and it does make a lot of women wary.

 

I agree with this. Not many of us would tell a stranger on a train she had a nice ass or nice boobs. Doing that would make a woman very uncomfortable. So most of us are in agreement that there is a line, beyond which our attention might make women feel uncomfortable. It then becomes a question of where that line is. The woman in the OPis telling us that her line is not where a lot of us expected it, and instead of just shrugging it off with a "fair enough", a lot of men start arguing the point. Why should we, as men, get to decide where a woman's line is?

[doctor jambo]

5 hours ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

I agree with this. Not many of us would tell a stranger on a train she had a nice ass or nice boobs. Doing that would make a woman very uncomfortable. So most of us are in agreement that there is a line, beyond which our attention might make women feel uncomfortable. It then becomes a question of where that line is. The woman in the OPis telling us that her line is not where a lot of us expected it, and instead of just shrugging it off with a "fair enough", a lot of men start arguing the point. Why should we, as men, get to decide where a woman's line is?

Because she has drawn her line in the wrong place?

and if she is going to insist on opening debate, surely if her audience respond with "" your being a daftie" , then she redraws her line somewhere else- "audience feedback to encourage self reflection "

 

[FWJ]

5 hours ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

I agree with this. Not many of us would tell a stranger on a train she had a nice ass or nice boobs. Doing that would make a woman very uncomfortable. So most of us are in agreement that there is a line, beyond which our attention might make women feel uncomfortable. It then becomes a question of where that line is. The woman in the OPis telling us that her line is not where a lot of us expected it, and instead of just shrugging it off with a "fair enough", a lot of men start arguing the point. Why should we, as men, get to decide where a woman's line is?

I wonder if this young woman has ever passed an unsolicited comment on someone’s appearance:

”Oh, you’ve changed your hair - it looks good!”

”That’s a nice dress, it really suits you”

”Love your new shoes, where did you get them?”

 

I work in a predominantly female environment and if any have a new ‘do and I don’t pass comment on it they act play-hurt.  How are we supposed to know where the line is drawn?  

 

If it was another woman who had said she should smile - would that have been ok?

Edited October 12, 2018 by FWJ