ri Alban Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Give me 1 thing that would mean tories are not bad. Then give me an example of how Europe has the UK currently “under its heel”? What law are you looking forward to NOT obeying when the EU boot is removed from our neck? Name me just 1. Freedom of movement, but wait, The jocks, Taffs and Paddies can still come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: So like 2014 its Tories bad - lets have an indy ref - oor oil is worth a fortune (maybe)- curency will be erm - we will sort something out - taxes will remain higher than UK - austerity will get worse for a while - jobs fecked - get back under the heel of Europe - hard borders - but its FREEEEEEEEEEDOM - gees a big feather ! Is it still 2014 where if we vote NO it will safe guard our place in the EU? Is it still 2014 where we are listening to dribble from Joanne? Lamont and Jim Murphy? Will it be like 2014 when the Indie movement fails and the union supporters riot in George Square? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Custard Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Will there be a hard border with England? What currency will we use and how will it be funded? My mortgage is in £GBP, what will be done to mitigate my currency risk upon adoption of a new currency by the government? How will shared services such as the armed forces, taxation etc be provided in an independent Scotland and how will they be paid for? How will my pension be paid? How can the union be broken 'easily and quickly' when we all witnessed the Brexit situation? Why would the UK not play the EU role and simply not negotiate? Out of the EU and separate from the UK - how would that benefit Scotland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rupert Custard said: Why would the UK not play the EU role and simply not negotiate? The EU has already negotiated a deal and wasted 2 years and fortune on something it didn’t even want. Its the UK that’s incapable of ‘negotiating’ and still after 2 years has no ****ing clue what it even wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Ibrahim Tall said: The EU has already negotiated a deal and wasted 2 years and fortune on something it didn’t even want. Its the UK that’s incapable of ‘negotiating’ and still after 2 years has no ****ing clue what it even wants. Theresa negotiated a terrible deal. Boris should've been PM after the referendum instead of her. Unfortunately its too late for a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Rupert Custard said: Will there be a hard border with England? What currency will we use and how will it be funded? My mortgage is in £GBP, what will be done to mitigate my currency risk upon adoption of a new currency by the government? How will shared services such as the armed forces, taxation etc be provided in an independent Scotland and how will they be paid for? How will my pension be paid? How can the union be broken 'easily and quickly' when we all witnessed the Brexit situation? Why would the UK not play the EU role and simply not negotiate? Out of the EU and separate from the UK - how would that benefit Scotland? The SNP have campaigned for a "People's Vote" on Brexit so I trust they would expect to have one on an Independence Settlement in the unlikely event of winning an Indy Referendum? If it is shown that Independence makes Scotland worse off as the SNP argue Brexit will, it would be hypocritical not to treat like for like surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said: Theresa negotiated a terrible deal. Boris should've been PM after the referendum instead of her. Unfortunately its too late for a deal. Precisely. Theresa May wanted to fudge Brexit and engineered a bad deal with the EU as late as possible that was never going to pass parliament in the hope the UK would give up on Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, frankblack said: The SNP have campaigned for a "People's Vote" on Brexit so I trust they would expect to have one on an Independence Settlement in the unlikely event of winning an Indy Referendum? If it is shown that Independence makes Scotland worse off as the SNP argue Brexit will, it would be hypocritical not to treat like for like surely? Did we have a people's vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Does anyone believe Frank Black voted yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, frankblack said: The SNP have campaigned for a "People's Vote" on Brexit so I trust they would expect to have one on an Independence Settlement in the unlikely event of winning an Indy Referendum? If it is shown that Independence makes Scotland worse off as the SNP argue Brexit will, it would be hypocritical not to treat like for like surely? Independence and leaving the eu are separate things, you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Boris said: Independence and leaving the eu are separate things, you know? Both involve a negotiated separation with costs, so very similar - we would just be a much smaller country with less security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, frankblack said: Both involve a negotiated separation with costs, so very similar - we would just be a much smaller country with less security. Yes, but it is a different negotiation than the UKs with the EU. Also there are international precedents etc Would we be better off if independent? Personally I don't think so overnight. But eventually we would be fine, IMO. Politically, we would be better off immediately, again, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: Does anyone believe Frank Black voted yes? Yes me as I did only to find out I had been lied to by snp like many people I won’t be fooled again mind you Sturgeon on Loose Women has me swithering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Yes me as I did only to find out I had been lied to by snp like many people I won’t be fooled again mind you Sturgeon on Loose Women has me swithering Out of interest, what were the lies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Laughable reading all the wee saps voting in opinion polls to stay shackled to a catastrophe of a union, ruled by an idiot who spends his spare time writing xenophobic poetry calling them vermin. Scottish unionists are actually scum in my opinion. I can say the above and not be abusive apparently. All I need to do is claim I was trying to be humorous... like when the wee fat simpleton that’s currently Prime Minister did similar. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 30 minutes ago, Boris said: Out of interest, what were the lies? The infamous White Paper if not lies was a complete work of fiction that fell down within months as the oil price crashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, frankblack said: The SNP have campaigned for a "People's Vote" on Brexit so I trust they would expect to have one on an Independence Settlement in the unlikely event of winning an Indy Referendum? If it is shown that Independence makes Scotland worse off as the SNP argue Brexit will, it would be hypocritical not to treat like for like surely? In a democracy that makes sense, it would, well, make sense to have a confirmatory vote once the details are known. This current democracy doesn't make sense, which is why there's not going to be a confirmatory vote once the Brexit details are known. I think a confirmatory vote in the event of a Yes to independence would be perfectly fine; given precedent, I hardly think it's in any way required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 53 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Yes me as I did only to find out I had been lied to by snp like many people I won’t be fooled again mind you Sturgeon on Loose Women has me swithering Absolute garbage. You are just like the trolls that infest any pro-SNP/independence articles; "honest I really really did vote Yes/SNP but never again". Total utter garbage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, frankblack said: The infamous White Paper if not lies was a complete work of fiction that fell down within months as the oil price crashed. And then recovered, as oil prices do. At the time, anything above 60 dollars meant money in the bank. With the exchange rate now, it's more like anything above 40 dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, Justin Z said: In a democracy that makes sense, it would, well, make sense to have a confirmatory vote once the details are known. This current democracy doesn't make sense, which is why there's not going to be a confirmatory vote once the Brexit details are known. I think a confirmatory vote in the event of a Yes to independence would be perfectly fine; given precedent, I hardly think it's in any way required. Can you imagine the tantrums from the SNP if that were to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, XB52 said: And then recovered, as oil prices do. At the time, anything above 60 dollars meant money in the bank. With the exchange rate now, it's more like anything above 40 dollars. The fact is that it showed the SNP's plans for independence were written on the back of a fag packet, and the Scottish oil industry has never recovered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 32 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said: Can you imagine the tantrums from the SNP if that were to happen? Not particularly, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Justin Z said: Not particularly, to be honest. You're right. I'm sure they would be fine with a do-over referendum if the Yes side won. 😆😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said: You're right. I'm sure they would be fine with a do-over referendum if the Yes side won. 😆😆 Calling a confirmatory referendum a "do-over" referendum is really pretty silly. If the original question were structured in such a way as to make a second referendum an actual do-over, an exercise in political tactics, they'd be justified in objecting. I don't see them complaining if the original referendum were laid out similarly to Brexit and the final deal would need democratic confirmation to go forward, just as Brexit was, legally speaking, since it was advisory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 That said, seeing as Brexit apparently doesn't need one, I could also see them responding "one rule for me, and one for thee?" which would also be fair, hardly the stuff of tantrums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) SNP2 coming soon. A second pro indy party being set up to take the regional vote. 960,000 second votes gave the SNP 5 extra seats, while 1.08m votes combined, gave the Tories, Labour and the Libdems 45 extra seats. Remember when the voting system was supposed to stop Majority Governments. Not before time. Game over! Edited August 13, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ri Alban said: SNP2 coming soon. A second pro indy party being set up to take the regional vote. 960,000 second votes gave the SNP 4 extra seats, while 1.08m votes combined, gave the Tories, Labour and the Libdems 46 extra seats. Remember when the voting system was supposed to stop Majority Governments. Not before time. Game over! Edit. Edited August 13, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, ri Alban said: Edit. If you do that you will dilute your own vote. Tactical voting will be evident next Holyrood elections to remove the Nationalist majority which the Greens are propping you up with. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, frankblack said: Tactical voting will be evident next Holyrood elections to remove the Nationalist majority which the Greens are propping you up with. 👍 You think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 11 hours ago, frankblack said: The fact is that it showed the SNP's plans for independence were written on the back of a fag packet, and the Scottish oil industry has never recovered. ???? Your post makes no sense. You are now blaming the snp for the oil industry collapsing???? It hasn't and what has the oil.price got to do with the SNP?? We get it, you are a unionist and don't want independence but try and stick to reality instead of making rubbish up. You know like, honest I voted snp/yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 58 minutes ago, frankblack said: Tactical voting will be evident next Holyrood elections to remove the Nationalist majority which the Greens are propping you up with. 👍 Greens propping up a nationalist majority? Don't you mean that Scotland has elected a pro-independence majority? Surely the opposite of that is a majority unionist parliament made up of much more minority parties? The SNP would still be the largest party and therefore would try to run a minority government? Only polls, but suggests more of the same. http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/polls/scottish-parliament Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 12 hours ago, frankblack said: The infamous White Paper if not lies was a complete work of fiction that fell down within months as the oil price crashed. If it was a "lie" when the oil price "crashed"... Was it then true when it "recovered"? How come oil benefits 60+ Million UK folk but is BAAAAAD for 5+ million Scots? I never could work that one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, frankblack said: If you do that you will dilute your own vote. Tactical voting will be evident next Holyrood elections to remove the Nationalist majority which the Greens are propping you up with. 👍 They can be as tactical as they like but the unionist vote will be what??? 40% at the Holyrood elections? Labour is finished and nobody up here voted tory. most of their MSP's got in on the list vote. Useless. Youre clutching at straws. It'll be an SNP whitewash, the unionists will be ragdolled aboot the place and whats more...YOU KNOW IT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 3 hours ago, XB52 said: ???? Your post makes no sense. You are now blaming the snp for the oil industry collapsing???? It hasn't and what has the oil.price got to do with the SNP?? We get it, you are a unionist and don't want independence but try and stick to reality instead of making rubbish up. You know like, honest I voted snp/yes Try learning to read before replying with an incoherent rant. That isn't what I said at all. 3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said: If it was a "lie" when the oil price "crashed"... Was it then true when it "recovered"? How come oil benefits 60+ Million UK folk but is BAAAAAD for 5+ million Scots? I never could work that one out. The oil industry in Scotland has not recovered to pre 2016 levels and anyone holding that up as the backbone of their economic policy is incompetent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said: They can be as tactical as they like but the unionist vote will be what??? 40% at the Holyrood elections? Labour is finished and nobody up here voted tory. most of their MSP's got in on the list vote. Useless. Youre clutching at straws. It'll be an SNP whitewash, the unionists will be ragdolled aboot the place and whats more...YOU KNOW IT! We will see. You are overlooking where lost labour votes will go from anti-independence voters. My argument is there will be enough seats taken against the SNP to block Independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, frankblack said: Try learning to read before replying with an incoherent rant. That isn't what I said at all. The oil industry in Scotland has not recovered to pre 2016 levels and anyone holding that up as the backbone of their economic policy is incompetent. Its exactly what you said, not my fault if you can't understand your own posts in your rush to slag off the SNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Just now, XB52 said: Its exactly what you said, not my fault if you can't understand your own posts in your rush to slag off the SNP x 1 million Literacy clearly isn't your strong point. Trying to defend yourself saying I don't understand what I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, frankblack said: We will see. You are overlooking where lost labour votes will go from anti-independence voters. My argument is there will be enough seats taken against the SNP to block Independence. Nope. Clear Independence majority and yet another mandate to hold one. You spewin??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, frankblack said: Try learning to read before replying with an incoherent rant. That isn't what I said at all. The oil industry in Scotland has not recovered to pre 2016 levels and anyone holding that up as the backbone of their economic policy is incompetent. Who says its Scotland backbone? One of many resources we should be pooling and sharing between 5 Million folk not 60Million. Is the oil only worthless when Scotland has anything to do with it? Seems to be OK for the rest of the planet. Funny that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 38 minutes ago, frankblack said: x 1 million Literacy clearly isn't your strong point. Trying to defend yourself saying I don't understand what I posted. Your wankery is really not a good look. That post was written like actual shit--unclear structure and multiple possible meanings. XB's interpretation was entirely reasonable in trying to make sense out of that verbal diarrhea, especially given your history of one-sided guff and flat out lying about how you voted in the first referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Justin Z said: Your wankery is really not a good look. That post was written like actual shit--unclear structure and multiple possible meanings. XB's interpretation was entirely reasonable in trying to make sense out of that verbal diarrhea, especially given your history of one-sided guff and flat out lying about how you voted in the first referendum. Oh dear. You seem to be having a meltdown and dishing out the personal abuse as usual. Dry your eyes. By the time Scotland gets anywhere near another shot at an Indy referendum, Corbyn will be gone and someone electable in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, frankblack said: Oh dear. You seem to be having a meltdown and dishing out the personal abuse as usual. Dry your eyes. By the time Scotland gets anywhere near another shot at an Indy referendum, Corbyn will be gone and someone electable in place. Have yourself a wee break, Franky boy. And/or go back to school. Laughable grasp of how to write English. Veins bursting in your forehead at people for understandably misreading your poor attempt at the written word, and then trying to deflect your anger on others, "as usual". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, Justin Z said: Have yourself a wee break, Franky boy. And/or go back to school. Laughable grasp of how to write English. Veins bursting in your forehead at people for understandably misreading your poor attempt at the written word, and then trying to deflect your anger on others, "as usual". Oh dear. You are having a mare. The first person to resort to personal abuse has lost the argument. 👍 You sound really unconvincing in your belief that Independence is happening. I am content knowing its got no chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, frankblack said: The first person to resort to personal abuse has lost the argument. 👍 5 hours ago, frankblack said: Try learning to read before replying with an incoherent rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Decent article in The Herald today. I think this is where a lot of No voters are at the moment, along with a lot of undecided voters. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17832792.win-no-voter-economy-stupid/?fbclid=IwAR1aa-4uVyvIUEYTrI4s12sJr2WS-vYdWciJk9R0Xr6DY6AuZCQc1Fq0SaE Also, as is said in the article, the next Scottish Elections is likely to be campaigned for on the one issue, with Pro Independence parties looking for a majority to force another Indy ref. Anyone know when the campaigning will start, has it already started, or will it be ramped up due to a possible No Deal Brexit? 2021 is not too far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Justin Z said: Selective quoting only makes you look an arse - and the smilies don't hide it. Think you'll find the poster resorted to personal abuse inbetween those posts. You however jumped straight in with personal abuse. I'll accept your apology now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 9 hours ago, frankblack said: x 1 million Literacy clearly isn't your strong point. Trying to defend yourself saying I don't understand what I posted. I'll try one more time, and I'll write really slow to give you time to read the letters that make words so perhaps you might just comprehend them. You said, and I quote " The fact is that it showed the SNP's plans for independence were written on the back of a fag packet, and the Scottish oil industry has never recovered. " So the SNP plans on a fag packet (actually a pretty large number of pages in their white paper)meant the oil industry never recovered. It really isn't that hard you know but never mind; you cling to your precious union as it reaches it's dying days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, frankblack said: I'll accept your apology now. Please keep posting--the entertainment is much appreciated during these long days of dissertation writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 31 minutes ago, XB52 said: I'll try one more time, and I'll write really slow to give you time to read the letters that make words so perhaps you might just comprehend them. You said, and I quote " The fact is that it showed the SNP's plans for independence were written on the back of a fag packet, and the Scottish oil industry has never recovered. " So the SNP plans on a fag packet (actually a pretty large number of pages in their white paper)meant the oil industry never recovered. It really isn't that hard you know but never mind; you cling to your precious union as it reaches it's dying days. You still haven't got it. I said it never recovered to pre 2016 levels, and the whole economic plan was written on a fag packet and a work of fiction put together to patch a huge gaping hole in their economic plans. The entire backbone of the economy was to be propped up by the Oil industry and that was proven to be nonsense within months. Once Brexit happens you will find the reality that all but the window lickers won't jump into Independence and sacrifice all their security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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