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How Would You Vote in IndyRef2?


Highlander

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4 minutes ago, jake said:

Snip

 

Once again, 100% off-topic from the point you tried to make, which was a lie you're now avoiding, that there's any comparison between a union like the EU and one like the UK.

 

If you ever wonder why you find yourself annoying people even who agree with you, as I do with a fair bit of this post, consider the above.

 

1 minute ago, jake said:

My original point was god forbid we leave one union (the uk) to then rejoin another(EU).

 

And you framed it in a lens of the giving up of sovereignty/control. You got pulled up because of the way you compared the two, as if they were alike from a sovereignty/control point of view. Rather than concede you were wrong, you deflected, started talking about other subjects, and otherwise avoided your error.

 

It's on-topic to discuss the merits of (re)joining the EU. That's not how you put things originally. They're not the same. Cede that and move on to productive discussion.

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Ron Burgundy
25 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

We've also already talked about how this framing is in really bad faith, just a few pages ago.

Who's we?

 

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13 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

No, I am not aware of how a democratic election in the UK was false, and it was cheated. 

Is it common knowledge?

Yes it is

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Just now, Ron Burgundy said:

Who's we?

 

Meant the thread generally, although now that I'm looking for it I'm having trouble. Sorry about that. Anyway, to sum up, a singular quote from a singular politician that the original referendum represented a "once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity" has been transmogrified into the mythical "they" saying "they'd ask the referendum question once a generation/lifetime" depending on who's doing the quote-mining and skewing.

 

There was some discussion about the background of the legal basis for the original referendum in the Boris thread recently so maybe that's what I had in mind, my bad.

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13 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

So do you believe Scotland was 'cheated' in 1979 referendum now? 

Yes. The only vote in the history of the uk when a majority wasn't enough

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24 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Once again, 100% off-topic from the point you tried to make, which was a lie you're now avoiding, that there's any comparison between a union like the EU and one like the UK.

 

If you ever wonder why you find yourself annoying people even who agree with you, as I do with a fair bit of this post, consider the above.

 

 

And you framed it in a lens of the giving up of sovereignty/control. You got pulled up because of the way you compared the two, as if they were alike from a sovereignty/control point of view. Rather than concede you were wrong, you deflected, started talking about other subjects, and otherwise avoided your error.

 

It's on-topic to discuss the merits of (re)joining the EU. That's not how you put things originally. They're not the same. Cede that and move on to productive discussion.

😄

That's me telt

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jack D and coke
8 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Yes. The only vote in the history of the uk when a majority wasn't enough

Incidentally at a time when the oil money was starting to pour into the coffers. 

Coincidence perhaps. 

LOL

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2 hours ago, jake said:

😄

Your slagging me off has got more polite which is nice.

 

I have not said the structure of these unions are the same.

 

They are both unions .

Which centralise power and imo mean less accountability and decrease local power.

One needs only look at the economic levers used by both to see they dont work other than for the already powerful.

It's a global economy and being part of these unions is like employing 2 middle men.

The EU in particular with its policies denies poorer nations fair prices for their food exports.

In fact EU policies on food tax punish the poor in Europe .

And before anyone counters with Tory policies .

Just because you leave the EU does not mean it's a race to the bottom.

We have more chance of progressive economic policies away from the EU whose priorities are the protection of multi national financiers .

We can vote for that.

Scotlands case for independence is a lot more complex but essentially the same .

 

So if Scotland chose independence its wealth and standing would see it given a seat at the top table.

If it were to rejoin the EU it would not.

 

If Scotland was to rejoin its budget would ultimately be governed by the EU would it not?

There are examples of this already .

Greece 

Spain

Italy.

:rofl: Yer first sentence made me laugh. 👍

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On 06/08/2019 at 16:30, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

RBS set to move HQ to London in the event of Scottish independence. Sure they wouldn’t be the only ones either. Can’t blame them what bank would want to operate in Socialist Republic of Scotland and do business in Crankie Dollars. 

Read it.

Ignored it.

By your own answer which I will change slightly

"Can’t blame them what bank would want to operate in the independent conservative fascist Kingdom of little Eng-er-land and do business in Boris Sterling which is almost worthless even now". 

Edited by Pans Jambo
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Class of 75
20 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Subsidy? 

21 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Oh dear god. You just said you had "a degree in this", then you trotted out the subsidy myth, which even some dumbass Yank from Arizona knows is a complete load of crap.
:jj_facepalm:

 

Subsidy, Barnett Formula call it what you will. Scotland does raise its own taxes to a point but money still comes from Westminster which is a subsidy. 

Edited by Class of 75
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Cruyff Turn

The Yoons are going into overdrive at the moment. Arses are caving in left, right and centre. Recent events have been delightful.

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20 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Subsidy, Barnett Formula call it what you will. Scotland does raise its own taxes to a point but money still comes from Westminster which is a subsidy. 

 

If Scotland puts more in, in taxes, than it gets back, which it consistently has for decades, it is a subsidy, yes...to Westminster!

 

Edited by Justin Z
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Who_put_the_ball_in...
1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Read it.

Ignored it.

By your own answer which I will change slightly

"Can’t blame them what bank would want to operate in the independent conservative fascist Kingdom of little Eng-er-land and do business in Boris Sterling which is almost worthless even now". 

Probably because the socialist state won’t have a central bank strong enough to support their 730billion pound balance sheet as their CEO confirmed today.

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28 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The Yoons are going into overdrive at the moment. Arses are caving in left, right and centre. Recent events have been delightful.

😂 Its getting to a fever point now. Unionist Arse collapse 😂

 

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4 minutes ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

Probably because the socialist state won’t have a central bank strong enough to support their 730billion pound balance sheet as their CEO confirmed today.

CEO being a fully paid up member of the loony yoony party. The Project Fear MKII is in full swing. 

Pity he didnt say a word about the financial suicide that is Brexit!!!

 

Bring oan big Broon!!!

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Who_put_the_ball_in...
2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

CEO being a fully paid up member of the loony yoony party. The Project Fear MKII is in full swing. 

Pity he didnt say a word about the financial suicide that is Brexit!!!

 

Bring oan big Broon!!!

Exactly the same logic brexiteers use. Anything that doesn’t fit the fantasy is scare moungering. 

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35 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The Yoons are going into overdrive at the moment. Arses are caving in left, right and centre. Recent events have been delightful.

As their turmoil grows the repeated use of "wee nippy/crankie"  get more frequent, further diluting their losing plight. 

 

For the first time since 2014 I'm excited for our future. Scotland's future. 

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Who_put_the_ball_in...
Just now, Sarah O said:

As their turmoil grows the repeated use of "wee nippy/crankie"  get more frequent, further diluting their losing plight. 

 

For the first time since 2014 I'm excited for our future. Scotland's future. 

Absolutely crack me up 😂 

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jack D and coke
20 minutes ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

Probably because the socialist state won’t have a central bank strong enough to support their 730billion pound balance sheet as their CEO confirmed today.

Which is why they’d HAVE to domicile in England as that’s where the majority of their business is. Its not them leaving as a threat, legally they have to move. 

Edited by jack D and coke
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Cruyff Turn
25 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

😂 Its getting to a fever point now. Unionist Arse collapse 😂

 

Wee Ian Murray’s well fed pus appearing all over the shop trying to put out fires. 😂😂 

17 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

As their turmoil grows the repeated use of "wee nippy/crankie"  get more frequent, further diluting their losing plight. 

 

For the first time since 2014 I'm excited for our future. Scotland's future. 

Aye, project fear mark II has begun, unfortunately they’ve used up most of their lies last time around. 

 

:pleasing:

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2 hours ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

(admin delete)

oh dear. If all else fails play the 'we are the people' card. Nice to see your true colours.

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33 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

😂 Its getting to a fever point now. Unionist Arse collapse 😂

 

they are getting deranged as independence draws ever closer.

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2 hours ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

(admin delete)

Thats lower than a snakes belly!!!

You should be ashamed and retract that!

Never met my grandfather, died in WWII. 

 

Absolutely NOTHING to do with the political situation in the UK today. In fact, he died fighting fascism which could be argued is similar to how the current incumbents in the UK Government are behaving. 

& by the way Scotland is a country, the UK is not. Nobody is trying to “pull it apart”. Just trying to run it properly for the benefit of the many not just the bloody millionaires!!!

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Roxy Hearts
18 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

So,  there was no cheating, in 1979. 

Do you think there was cheating in 2014?

Do you think there will be cheating in #indyref2?

Yep, cheating. Majority rules in a democracy but some moronic Labour fool stuck 40%. Ruth's knowledge on 2014 postal votes, purdah broken, the vow, lies like we will stay in Europe etc, etc, the msm unbalanced propaganda. Yep, cheating as unionists will always do!

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Roxy Hearts
2 hours ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

Such a sad situation our very own McRae’s battalion fought and died to save our country. This place is full of cheerleaders that will pull that country apart I really think a lot of you would be better supporting a UK hating team from Glasgow.

Which country? The regiments were all Scottish and joined the other regiments from the UK to create an army. I loathe warmongering like we have now and most unionists are warmongers. Westminster can GTF with its nuclear weapons too. A bit sad you used part of our history to have a wee go at another supporter. 

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AlphonseCapone

@Who_put_the_ball_in... One of the worst posts ever on JKB, using something so important to our clubs history for a shite politic point. Should be utterly ashamed of yourself. 

Edited by AlphonseCapone
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23 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

@Who_put_the_ball_in... One of the worst posts ever on JKB, using something so important to our clubs history for a shite politic point. Should be utterly ashamed of yourself. 

Well said. 

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jack D and coke

I wouldn’t make a huge deal over that post tbh. The break up of the uk is a pretty emotional thing just like Scotland joining the union must’ve caused chaos all the years ago. Imo he’s probably an older poster who relates to the war effort and stuff and lets be honest the older ones mostly do it brought them together. 

Everybody has to adopt a much softer approach. If it happens there’s going to be a lot of angry people. 

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Cruyff Turn
2 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

'The Yoons'. Says it all. 

Too right it does. Bootlickers, Uncle Tams, Quislings, House Jocks, 5th Columnists. Take your pick. If the cap fits as they say. 

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1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I wouldn’t make a huge deal over that post tbh. The break up of the uk is a pretty emotional thing just like Scotland joining the union must’ve caused chaos all the years ago. Imo he’s probably an older poster who relates to the war effort and stuff and lets be honest the older ones mostly do it brought them together. 

Everybody has to adopt a much softer approach. If it happens there’s going to be a lot of angry people. 

What and there wasn't in 2014. Didn't see any rioting yes voters then.

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jack D and coke
Just now, ri Alban said:

What and there wasn't in 2014. Didn't see any rioting yes voters then.

I know there wasn’t man. There’s just too much aggravation when discussing it for me. 

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15 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I know there wasn’t man. There’s just too much aggravation when discussing it for me. 

Not long now!

 

:jambobanana:

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8 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

It's a deep thing. The Union of the Parliaments in 1707 meant an end to a lot of friction. 

Actively seeking to create country-sized frictions as Scotland, against England, will always be a major issue for people in Scotland. 

I don't see Scotland becoming independent as a solution to the things that are wrong in Scotland. 

 

300 years of union has do us a world of good. 👍  Not!!!

 

Let's keep giving our sovereignty and democracy away. That's the spirit.

Edited by ri Alban
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Who_put_the_ball_in...
7 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I wouldn’t make a huge deal over that post tbh. The break up of the uk is a pretty emotional thing just like Scotland joining the union must’ve caused chaos all the years ago. Imo he’s probably an older poster who relates to the war effort and stuff and lets be honest the older ones mostly do it brought them together. 

Everybody has to adopt a much softer approach. If it happens there’s going to be a lot of angry people. 

It’s s a fact the men fought for king and country under the union flag. Can’t have it both ways our proud British heritage and British hating ideas. But apparently it’s the “yoons” that are in meltdown 

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5 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Hi @ri Alban I am guessing you believe Scotland can gain it's sovereignty and democracy by leaving the UK, and then keep them, by joining the EU. 

Do u believe the  UK/GB/England didn't have full sovereignty when part of the EU? 

Do u believe The UK is telt, the same way Scotland is telt?

If the UK was the same as the EU I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be any need for an independence, because we already would be. 

 

Anyway, I'm quite comfortable being either part, full or out of the EU after indy, as we'll decide what matters. (But one border is better than 27, and 500m is bigger than 60m, so?) Not WM and the conservative part. Which have had 3 different PMs and a 3rd G.E coming in October, since 2016 and yet Scotland can't ask again. Yet you believe that's ok. 

 

Oh, do you remember the EU guarantee during 2014 and how Scotland being out of the EU and UK, that we'd be fecked. Yet No deal leave is absolutely brilliant. 

 

When Indyref2 comes all that will be left on the no side, better together will be in trouble.

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14 minutes ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

It’s s a fact the men fought for king and country under the union flag. Can’t have it both ways our proud British heritage and British hating ideas. But apparently it’s the “yoons” that are in meltdown 

Well now they can fight for Scotland's Kings, Queens or Presidents. Depending who we chose. Not England's.

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Carthage Geoff Tramhater

If the options are Boris or Corbyn you can see why people will favour Independence .

 

Have a bit of faith in our country instead of acting like peasants to Westminster .

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AlphonseCapone
1 hour ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

It’s s a fact the men fought for king and country under the union flag. Can’t have it both ways our proud British heritage and British hating ideas. But apparently it’s the “yoons” that are in meltdown 

 

Wanting Scotland to be independent doesn't make you British hating. You've a very black and white view of things. 

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7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

300 years of union has do us a world of good. 👍  Not!!!

 

Let's keep giving our sovereignty and democracy away. That's the spirit.

 

Isn't that what you would be doing by bending over for the EU?

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8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Isn't that what you would be doing by bending over for the EU?

No. But, as has been mentioned earlier, being part of the U.K., and being part of the eu are two different things.

 

I'm surprised you have bought into all that vote leave nonsense about the eu, but then again , maybe not.

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As a side note, there seems to be many more vocal independence supporters now on JKB than back in the run up to 2014.

 

JKB has always been a bastion of positivity around the subject... in fact the majority of the posters on here did intend to vote Yes in 2014 as proven by a couple of polls on the subject.

 

Since then the majority has apparently increased in size and the rise in the numbers of vocal posters for indie since then correlates with the general swing from No to Yes across the board. Fantastic to see.

 

This place must be about 70% for independence these days. Quite remarkable for a club's fanbase often mocked by others as being "Mini Huns". 

 

For everyone that has moved to Yes, or is thinking about it....

 

giphy.gif

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17 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Isn't that what you would be doing by bending over for the EU?

Nope

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jack D and coke
1 hour ago, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

It’s s a fact the men fought for king and country under the union flag. Can’t have it both ways our proud British heritage and British hating ideas. But apparently it’s the “yoons” that are in meltdown 

I’m not doubting it or rubbishing it and I don’t hate Britain nor do I hate the English. I’m not sure what you mean by having proud British heritage and British hating ideas either. 

You sound exactly like my old man. He’s really confused about it all too. 

 

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7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Hi @ri Alban I am guessing you believe Scotland can gain it's sovereignty and democracy by leaving the UK, and then keep them, by joining the EU. 

 

If so, that would be correct.

 

34 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Isn't that what you would be doing by bending over for the EU?

 

You're better than to repeat this distortion one page after it got thoroughly debunked for about the 95th time.

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jack D and coke
7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

It's a deep thing. The Union of the Parliaments in 1707 meant an end to a lot of friction. 

Actively seeking to create country-sized frictions as Scotland, against England, will always be a major issue for people in Scotland. 

I don't see Scotland becoming independent as a solution to the things that are wrong in Scotland. 

 

That’s fair enough man your entitled to that opinion. I have no problem with anybody who will discuss it properly. 

The name calling (from both sides) and trolling is only cause deep divides it’s not what we need to be doing. 

 

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manaliveits105

The difference in 2014 was that the auld nawbags wouldnt have burst into tears if a  yes result was announced  - they are /were made of sterner stuff - nor would they have insulted the people who voted yes when added to the once in a generation lies and the Salmond factor - yer teas oot !  

- Go the silent majority .

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6 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The difference in 2014 was that the auld nawbags wouldnt have burst into tears if a  yes result was announced  - they are /were made of sterner stuff - nor would they have insulted the people who voted yes when added to the once in a generation lies and the Salmond factor - yer teas oot !  

- Go the silent majority .

You have to be joking. Yes supporters were attacked after losing the vote. Imagine what will happen when we win next time. The loyalists will not be able to take it but hopefully they are given a warm welcome in NI or England 

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