Hard Brexit

[Boris]

19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The Guardian and a scary anti-Brexit story? I am shocked.

Well not really a story. Someone's prediction based on god knows what assumptions and analysis.

The Guardian in its desperate fight against falling sales increasingly splashes CP Scott's old maxim "Opinion is free. Facts are sacred" across its pages. "Opinions are Free. Facts are hard to come by" fits the paper better these days. For some reason I still buy it nearly fifty years after I started but I don't really know why. The "I" offers  much the same product, pro EU but less fanatically and obsessively so, and now in much the same format at nearly one third of the price. With the bonus you don't have Polly Toynbee, George Monbiot and Polly Toynbee preaching at you.

 

The Guardian is merely reporting the Chairman of Maritime UK.

 

Support c. 1m jobs and contribute £40bn to the economy.  https://www.maritimeuk.org/about/about-us/

 

But they are just scaremongering.  As you were.

 

Bloody "experts" and their experience and knowledge of the sector that they work in and their ability to TOTALLY misunderstand how things could go.

 

Unlikely to hear this chap voice his concerns on the news though.  More likely to get that spiv Farage or the like.

 

Naturally, I don't want anyone to suffer from Brexit, or for that matter from EU membership, but there are times, when I read articles like that about Dover, that I full on Kevin Keegan would love it for those things to come true and really feck up Kent...just to see the reaction down there and the consequences of their actions.  But only sometimes, as its quite misanthropic to think that way.

 

I'm not optimistic regards the consequences of a hard Brexit.  The dithering and shambolic approach of HMG is quite frankly staggering.

[jake]

2 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Garden of England, too. All that pollution won't be good for their crops. 

??????? 

 

Sorry not a dig but brexit gets blamed for everything .

Now global warming.

??

[jake]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I am sure the 40% youth unemployed in much of Southern Europe appreciate the better job EU nations are doing in regulating and developing their economies. Of course they will have better workers rights (at least on paper) ... if they ever get a job.

Exactly.

And just because people call the EU out does not make them a Tory.

Jeremy Corbyn is anti EU.

And as for better regulation of workers rights.

Jambox2 really needs to speak with some of my workmates.

I can assure him it's just not the case.

 

And here's the rub .

You try and take a stand in a lot of warehouses hotels factory farms etc.

And there will be people escaping from even worse working conditions in this wonderful EU of his.

If like you say they have any job at all.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

26 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

The Guardian is merely reporting the Chairman of Maritime UK.

 

Support c. 1m jobs and contribute £40bn to the economy.  https://www.maritimeuk.org/about/about-us/

 

But they are just scaremongering.  As you were.

 

Bloody "experts" and their experience and knowledge of the sector that they work in and their ability to TOTALLY misunderstand how things could go.

 

Unlikely to hear this chap voice his concerns on the news though.  More likely to get that spiv Farage or the like.

 

Naturally, I don't want anyone to suffer from Brexit, or for that matter from EU membership, but there are times, when I read articles like that about Dover, that I full on Kevin Keegan would love it for those things to come true and really feck up Kent...just to see the reaction down there and the consequences of their actions.  But only sometimes, as its quite misanthropic to think that way.

 

I'm not optimistic regards the consequences of a hard Brexit.  The dithering and shambolic approach of HMG is quite frankly staggering.

Reporting with quite a bit of Guardian spin.

The Maritime Chairman refers to a closure of the M20 in 2015 for 24 days because of Operation Stack and to the need for greatly improved lorry handling facilities on the UK side of the Channel ports,  both  long predating the Brexit vote. It is as much if not more about the UK's underinvestment in infrastructure than about Brexit itself. People in Kent have been complaining about this for years.

 

[jake]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Reporting with quite a bit of Guardian spin.

The Maritime Chairman refers to a closure of the M20 in 2015 for 24 days because of Operation Stack and to the need for greatly improved lorry handling facilities on the UK side of the Channel ports,  both  long predating the Brexit vote. It is as much if not more about the UK's underinvestment in infrastructure than about Brexit itself. People in Kent have been complaining about this for years.

 

The Guardian is about as believable as the Sun.

 

 

[jake]

Going back to Jambox2 assertion on the protection of workers rights.

It's most affluent member Germany has severe problems regarding the exploitation of migrant workers.

This I can assure him is well documented.

So if the most advanced economical country in the EU shows up badly I do wonder about those whose countries are struggling fair.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Very odd speech from BoJo this morning. Odd, not that it was long on rhetoric and short on detail as per usual, but why he chose to give it at all. 

 

Sense he's getting ready to quit which would be a very very good thing for all of us.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, jake said:

??????? 

 

Sorry not a dig but brexit gets blamed for everything .

Now global warming.

??

Please point out where I mentioned anything global warming. Thank you very much.

 

??????? ??????? ??????? 

[Boris]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Reporting with quite a bit of Guardian spin.

The Maritime Chairman refers to a closure of the M20 in 2015 for 24 days because of Operation Stack and to the need for greatly improved lorry handling facilities on the UK side of the Channel ports,  both  long predating the Brexit vote. It is as much if not more about the UK's underinvestment in infrastructure than about Brexit itself. People in Kent have been complaining about this for years.

 

So you don't think that a hard brexit will exacerbate an already highly strained infrastructure at the ports?

 

That was what I got out of the article.

 

In other words we are being taken into the unknown with no contingencies in place.

 

Where's Denis Nordern?

[jake]

2 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Please point out where I mentioned anything global warming. Thank you very much.

 

??????? ??????? ??????? 

You didn't I was taking a liberty in satirical way with your post.

I was finding it funny .

 

Sadly ?

[jake]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

So you don't think that a hard brexit will exacerbate an already highly strained infrastructure at the ports?

 

That was what I got out of the article.

 

In other words we are being taken into the unknown with no contingencies in place.

 

Where's Denis Nordern?

Boris come on eh

[Boris]

1 hour ago, jake said:

Boris come on eh

So there are contingencies? 

[jake]

44 minutes ago, Boris said:

So there are contingencies? 

Boris.

Do you not think unregulated immigration causes worse strains on our weakened infrastructure?

 

Has it not created tensions in people who are not the classic white Englanders that you would fashion as the main brexiteers.

 

It's really not so simplistic as you portray or I do.

Nor is it bathed in idealism as jambo and uly do or I do.

 

What gets me about you Boris is I think you have stated you are a communist or at least a socialist.

How can you support the EU?

 

 

 

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

9 hours ago, jake said:

You didn't I was taking a liberty in satirical way with your post.

I was finding it funny .

 

Sadly ?

Ah, I see. So you're full of shit. 

[Boris]

9 hours ago, jake said:

Boris.

Do you not think unregulated immigration causes worse strains on our weakened infrastructure?

 

In reference to trade and goods leaving and entering the country seemlessly, then no, I don't.  Immigration has nothing to do with the infrastructure around our ports and our ability to move things quickly should there be no customs union.

 

9 hours ago, jake said:

 

Has it not created tensions in people who are not the classic white Englanders that you would fashion as the main brexiteers.

 

I've no idea.

 

I don't subscribe to the theory that the problems ith the NHS, education, housing etc are all down to immigration policy.  Massive underinvestment by central government over decades, as a result of economic doctrine has, IMO, led to this.

 

9 hours ago, jake said:

 

It's really not so simplistic as you portray or I do.

Nor is it bathed in idealism as jambo and uly do or I do.

 

I'd say that when the head of Maritime UK is flagging up potential disruption and problems on the back of a hard brexit, that's pretty simple.  Or when Japan says its companies will leave if they don't make a profit

9 hours ago, jake said:

 

What gets me about you Boris is I think you have stated you are a communist or at least a socialist.

How can you support the EU?

 

 

I've said before that there have been arguments from the Left about leaving the EU that have some substance, however we are leaving for possibly the opposite reasons!

 

The EU is bloated and has gone past what its original intentions were, imo.  It should remain an economic community, not a political union.  BUt the UK's role is to argue that within the EU and try to carry the day, rather than piss about on the sidelines, moaning.

[jake]

3 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Ah, I see. So you're full of shit. 

I wouldn't have quite put it that way but you are entitled to your opinion.

[jake]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

In reference to trade and goods leaving and entering the country seemlessly, then no, I don't.  Immigration has nothing to do with the infrastructure around our ports and our ability to move things quickly should there be no customs union.

 

 

I've no idea.

 

I don't subscribe to the theory that the problems ith the NHS, education, housing etc are all down to immigration policy.  Massive underinvestment by central government over decades, as a result of economic doctrine has, IMO, led to this.

 

 

I'd say that when the head of Maritime UK is flagging up potential disruption and problems on the back of a hard brexit, that's pretty simple.  Or when Japan says its companies will leave if they don't make a profit

 

I've said before that there have been arguments from the Left about leaving the EU that have some substance, however we are leaving for possibly the opposite reasons!

 

The EU is bloated and has gone past what its original intentions were, imo.  It should remain an economic community, not a political union.  BUt the UK's role is to argue that within the EU and try to carry the day, rather than piss about on the sidelines, moaning.

Thanks for your replies mate.

 

[Francis Albert]

19 hours ago, jake said:

Going back to Jambox2 assertion on the protection of workers rights.

It's most affluent member Germany has severe problems regarding the exploitation of migrant workers.

This I can assure him is well documented.

So if the most advanced economical country in the EU shows up badly I do wonder about those whose countries are struggling fair.

Private Eye (strongly anti-Brexit but still able to see the EU's many faults) had a cartoon on this last week.

 

Eurocrat spouting the familiar "nuanced" EU negotiating position  "Post Brexit the UK must comply with all EU rules and regulations" . Sardonic reply by his colleague "It will be odd that the nation most compliant with EU law will not be in the EU".

 

Do people really believe countries like Greece unable to enforce their  own tax laws, strictly enforce EU regulations?

Edited February 15, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Boris]

18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Private Eye (strongly anti-Brexit but still able to see the EU's many faults) had a cartoon on this last week.

 

Eurocrat spouting the familiar "nuanced" EU negotiating position  "Post Brexit the UK must comply with all EU rules and regulations" . Sardonic reply by his colleague "It will be odd that the nation most compliant with EU law will not be in the EU".

 

Do people really believe countries like Greece unable to enforce their  own tax laws, strictly enforce EU regulations?

 

I would suspect it very much depends on the regulation.

 

The UK doesn't enforce all EU regulations either, otherwise you wouldn't have migrant workers drowning whilst picking cockles.

 

But th epoint about the UK being most compliant is interesting.  This suggests that post Brexit, there will be deregulation.  Cui bono?

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

I would suspect it very much depends on the regulation.

 

The UK doesn't enforce all EU regulations either, otherwise you wouldn't have migrant workers drowning whilst picking cockles.

 

But th epoint about the UK being most compliant is interesting.  This suggests that post Brexit, there will be deregulation.  Cui bono?

I am not altogether sure what the drowned cockle pickers have to do with anything. Murders happen. It doesn't mean we don't enforce the law against murdering people.

 

And sorry  I don't get the deregulation reference either.

[Boris]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

I am not altogether sure what the drowned cockle pickers have to do with anything. Murders happen. It doesn't mean we don't enforce the law against murdering people.

 

And sorry  I don't get the deregulation reference either.

 

Regards the cockle workers, there are EU regulations that are there to stop that sort of thing.  Clearly not everyone in the UK enforces these, even although the UK on the face of it does.  You said Greece wouldn't enforce EU regulations, the cockle pickers show that the UK doesn't "strictly enforce" otherwise it wouldn't happen.  I'm not blaming the Govt for that, just saying.

 

Who benefits from the UK deregulating from current EU regulations was my point.

[SE16 3LN]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 12:12, Boris said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/14/dover-could-suffer-20-mile-permanent-traffic-jam-after-brexit

 

Hopefully some sort of deal can be agreed because this sounds bloody hopeless!  Ironic that Kent will potentially grind to a halt given that Kent was very pro-brexit.

 

See you in the food queues!

That's not ironic. Anyway, so if the UK doesn't give the EU loads more money the French will blockade. **** them, never give in to blackmail

[SE16 3LN]

5 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Regards the cockle workers, there are EU regulations that are there to stop that sort of thing.  Clearly not everyone in the UK enforces these, even although the UK on the face of it does.  You said Greece wouldn't enforce EU regulations, the cockle pickers show that the UK doesn't "strictly enforce" otherwise it wouldn't happen.  I'm not blaming the Govt for that, just saying

Who benefits from the UK deregulating from current EU regulations was my point.

FFS Boris, you're all over the place. The French and the Germans don't even enforce the smoking ban, vote fascist and the Germans can't eform a govt. and your wittering on about the UK cockle picking industry. Step it up man.

[Space Mackerel]

19 hours ago, jake said:

Boris.

Do you not think unregulated immigration causes worse strains on our weakened infrastructure?

 

Has it not created tensions in people who are not the classic white Englanders that you would fashion as the main brexiteers.

 

It's really not so simplistic as you portray or I do.

Nor is it bathed in idealism as jambo and uly do or I do.

 

What gets me about you Boris is I think you have stated you are a communist or at least a socialist.

How can you support the EU?

 

 

 

 

 

jake, it was the banks that caused the 2008 crash and subsequent Tory policy of austerity. They needed recapitalised and tax payers monies filled their coffers and bonuses back to the levels they are used too. 

 

Wee black dudes had nothing to do with it. 

[Ulysses]

27 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

The French and the Germans don't even enforce the smoking ban.....

 

 

What smoking ban?  The EU doesn't have a smoking ban.

[jake]

18 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

What smoking ban?  The EU doesn't have a smoking ban.

Aha more evidence of EU corruption.

?

[jake]

32 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

jake, it was the banks that caused the 2008 crash and subsequent Tory policy of austerity. They needed recapitalised and tax payers monies filled their coffers and bonuses back to the levels they are used too. 

 

Wee black dudes had nothing to do with it. 

?

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, jake said:

?

 

Sad but true ma wee pal. 

[Boris]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

That's not ironic. Anyway, so if the UK doesn't give the EU loads more money the French will blockade. **** them, never give in to blackmail

Who mentioned French blockades? This is about not being in the customs union and the consequences of that. Britain isn't prepared for it.

 

And I'd argue that it is ironic.

[Boris]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

FFS Boris, you're all over the place. The French and the Germans don't even enforce the smoking ban, vote fascist and the Germans can't eform a govt. and your wittering on about the UK cockle picking industry. Step it up man.

 

Smoking ban? Eh?

 

This country votes fascist too, it's just not as blatant. IMO. If you'd read the context then you'd understand. It was a reference to eu regulations and their enforcement.

 

The Germans can't form a govt? Such are the vagaries of their electoral system. We on the other hand have a shambles of a government. I know which country I think is the more democratic!

[jake]

2 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Sad but true ma wee pal. 

Space go and fek yersel

[Space Mackerel]

9 hours ago, jake said:

Space go and fek yersel

 

 Cmon man. There’s been 2 explosions of cheap credit in the last 30 or so years in the UK. Who did we blame the last time it went tits up?

Remember the advert below?

 

 

 

[jake]

4 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 Cmon man. There’s been 2 explosions of cheap credit in the last 30 or so years in the UK. Who did we blame the last time it went tits up?

Remember the advert below?

 

 

 

?

[Seymour M Hersh]

A clean break is the only way forward for the UK! 

[CJGJ]

People can deny it all they want but Brexit will impact greatly In the short term at least in terms of the economy and not in a good way ....just view the recent economic impact reports for each region

 

So given that I'm sure those who voted for Brexit will be first to volunteer for redundancy should the worst happen at their firm and will not bleat to the rest of us if their own business goes belly up as a direct result of the vote to leave.

[Space Mackerel]

7 hours ago, jake said:

?

 

Youve been duped by the English Nationalists on the far right of the Tory party jake. As if they give two shinys about a white working class kid from Edinburgh

[jake]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Youve been duped by the English Nationalists on the far right of the Tory party jake. As if they give two shinys about a white working class kid from Edinburgh

?

[jake]

2 hours ago, CJGJ said:

People can deny it all they want but Brexit will impact greatly In the short term at least in terms of the economy and not in a good way ....just view the recent economic impact reports for each region

 

So given that I'm sure those who voted for Brexit will be first to volunteer for redundancy should the worst happen at their firm and will not bleat to the rest of us if their own business goes belly up as a direct result of the vote to leave.

?

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, jake said:

?

 

Awwwwwwwww, Aaron Banks, Nigel Farage, BoJo and The Mogstarr really really do love you. Chin up. 

[jake]

19 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Awwwwwwwww, Aaron Banks, Nigel Farage, BoJo and The Mogstarr really really do love you. Chin up. 

?

[Space Mackerel]

16 minutes ago, jake said:

?

 

Let me know when the “trickle down” economics happens and you’ve all got enough for a down payment on an Austin Allegro GTI. 

[jake]

19 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Let me know when the “trickle down” economics happens and you’ve all got enough for a down payment on an Austin Allegro GTI. 

Let me know when you stop attributing policies or theory to me that I have never once championed.

 

Oh and you never got back to me when I blew you to bits about your London radio programme.

 

Spacey the London boy how ironic. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by jake

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, jake said:

Let me know when you stop attributing policies or theory to me that I have never once championed.

 

Oh and you never got back to me when I blew you to bits about your London radio programme.

 

Spacey the London boy how ironic. 

 

 

 

I think you need to find out what LBC stands for. 

[Gorgiewave]

People talking down a "hard Brexit" should Stop Talking Britain Down. Britain did very well for itself before 1973 (very well indeed at points) and Britain has never relied chiefly on "Europe" for trade. The EU barely enjoys any economic growth, while the rest of the world does. EU fans tend not to admit this or care about it. They're more concerned with presumed moral superiority. What did the EU do in Yugoslavia? Nothing. What did NATO do? Led by the UK and the USA? Establish the peace.

[jake]

23 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I think you need to find out what LBC stands for. 

Spacey the nationalist ? 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LBC

[jake]

I especially like LBCs slogan .

London based talk show leading Britain's conversation.

 

???

 

Spacey that's what you call ironic.

[Space Mackerel]

16 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

People talking down a "hard Brexit" should Stop Talking Britain Down. Britain did very well for itself before 1973 (very well indeed at points) and Britain has never relied chiefly on "Europe" for trade. The EU barely enjoys any economic growth, while the rest of the world does. EU fans tend not to admit this or care about it. They're more concerned with presumed moral superiority. What did the EU do in Yugoslavia? Nothing. What did NATO do? Led by the UK and the USA? Establish the peace.

 

Here comes the red white n blue flag waving British Nationalist all the way giving his points of view from his abode in Spain. 

[Gorgiewave]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

 

Here comes the red white n blue flag waving British Nationalist all the way giving his points of view from his abode in Spain. 

Hello, Space Boy. How are you?

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, jake said:

I especially like LBCs slogan .

London based talk show leading Britain's conversation.

 

???

 

Spacey that's what you call ironic.

 

You should listen sometime, get a good well rounded opinion on all view points. 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Gorgiewave said:

Hello, Space Boy. How are you?

 

Hows Spain? Still in the EU?