Hard Brexit

[Boab1874]

You cannot go onto W T O rules without border in Ireland.That is against British law so no W T O..E U is right you cannot make the rules as you are the ones that want to leave.Tony Blair done a great job.Only way out is withdraw article 50.Control the borders as they should have been controlled.All jobs 30 days job centre then open to E U workers. Min wage £30000 and private health insurance.No job 90 days sent back home.That is E U law,why does this country not do it. Answer  Tory profit.

[frankblack]

18 minutes ago, Boab1874 said:

You cannot go onto W T O rules without border in Ireland.That is against British law so no W T O..E U is right you cannot make the rules as you are the ones that want to leave.Tony Blair done a great job.Only way out is withdraw article 50.Control the borders as they should have been controlled.All jobs 30 days job centre then open to E U workers. Min wage £30000 and private health insurance.No job 90 days sent back home.That is E U law,why does this country not do it. Answer  Tory profit.

 

You have posted this complete pish before and had it proven wrong.  Posting the same thing two weeks later doesn't make it any better,.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45856784 

 

Yeah, I saw this.  Interesting that Ruth Davidson is aligning herself with the DUP.  Says it all about the Tories, I'd say.

 

You do realise their party name is The Conservative and Unionist Party, don't you?

[Boris]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You do realise their party name is The Conservative and Unionist Party, don't you?

 

Yes.  And by taking such a hard line (DUP style) they are, imo, weakening the Union.

 

A previous clip showed Davidson asking the FM to stay in the single market.  Now she wants out of it.  This country (and Union) is being led to its demise by the politiking of this party.

 

Edit: and being held hostage by a bunch of religious zealots.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Boris

[Boris]

9 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

A previous clip showed Davidson asking the FM to stay in the single market.  Now she wants out of it.  This country (and Union) is being led to its demise by the politiking of this party.

 

Sorry, was on another thread...

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/uploads/monthly_2018_10/Remember_this_When_Ruth_Davidson_said_.mp4.3e18f6d128f4a04e78ca5712f5e0b9d3.mp4

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Boris

[Boab1874]

And the SNP said in 2014 Scotland will be great after independence.We now know the facts Bankruptcy. Look up the rules on W T O  and learn some sense. Do not listen to that right wing talk. E U must stand firm .Famine appeal for the U.K. send your €10 to

[pablo]

 

I also seem to remember that the SNP's position in 2014 was to leave the EU with no deal. Although they were confident of negotiating re-entry within 18 months or something? 

[Boris]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

I also seem to remember that the SNP's position in 2014 was to leave the EU with no deal. Although they were confident of negotiating re-entry within 18 months or something? 

 

Slightly different circumstances, wouldn't you agree?  But re-entry would have been straightforward.

 

What we have here, today is an omnishambles that beggars belief!

[pablo]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

Slightly different circumstances, wouldn't you agree?  But re-entry would have been straightforward.

 

What we have here, today is an omnishambles that beggars belief!

 

It would have a piece of cake, you're right. I'd have given the job to Humza Yousaf, he seems a smart cookie.

 

Anyway, interesting to see Mundell and Davidson's threat. Quite refreshing to be reminded that politicians in some parties are still allowed to voice their own opinions.

[Boris]

9 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

It would have a piece of cake, you're right. I'd have given the job to Humza Yousaf, he seems a smart cookie.

 

Hahaha.  

 

9 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Anyway, interesting to see Mundell and Davidson's threat. Quite refreshing to be reminded that politicians in some parties are still allowed to voice their own opinions.

 

It is.  Davidson is full of them.

 

First she advocated remain.

 

then she advocated staying in the single market.

 

Then she attacked Boris Johnson regards the Irish border and now she is advocating hard brexit!

 

It's so hard to keep up at times!!!

 

 

 

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Would it? What makes you say that?

 

At the time there was consensus that an indeoendent Scotland would apply for EU membership, and (although I can't say 100%, obviously) I am pretty sure that it would have been accepted, granted there may have been caveats.

 

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I remember the Spanish position being **** you, undoubtably because of their own issues but still....

 

Whilst is anything straightforward with the EU due to their governance arrangements? 

 

Don't disagree.  See above re caveats.

 

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Also as you have have repeatedly stated assuming the snp position on something post indepedence is not really a given. If the the snp get their wish of independence, undoubtably factions will form over the future vision 

 

I agree factions may form, even splinter, but the SNP position would remain the same whilst under current ownership.  Whether that is the govt post indy is impossible to tell.

 

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

in many ways the snp is a very broad church of political beliefs united over a single belief/issue. (I don’t like single issues for this reason) When that unified aim disappears/resolved other issues will naturally come to the fore.

 

Politicians and people generally into politics like a argument. What gets them up in the morning!!!

 

 

 

Don't disagree!

[Boris]

19 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

i think sometimes people get carried away with what they want to happen as opposed to what is likely to happen.

 

I think that is a very good point.

[Boris]

Just now, Lord BJ said:

 

So not straightforward when one of the caveats is a country going **** you and they have the right of veto.

 

Not that it matters was just slightly surprised you  thought straight forward. Just wondered your rational was all.

 

IIRC, at the time, there was a lot of love coming from the EU toward Scotland.  Perhaps I just felt we would be a shoe in, regardless of Spain.  I also think diplomatic pressure would have been placed on Spain from the rest of the EU, but I am merely speculating.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

In fairness to Davidson and Mundell, all I see is a lot of people speculating on their position. 

 

The report seems to be to be based on little more than a rumour. 

 

I also doubt very much politicians as skilled as Davidson (whether you like her or not she is a skilled politician) backs herself into such a corner. Whilst Davidson or Mundell resigning in reality changes little. 

 

The tories have made a royal **** up of this, albeit, it was a shit storm to deal with. However, internal fighting is just that. 

 

My money still on a deal being reached. Which everyone complains about (remainers and leavers complain it’s not really leaving so what the point). May resigns and the tories appoint a new leader to take them forward and probably win the next GE.

 

i think sometimes people get carried away with what they want to happen as opposed to what is likely to happen.

 

Good post.

 

Like you I still think we will get a deal, but its probably not going to please a lot of people.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

27 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Good post.

 

Like you I still think we will get a deal, but its probably not going to please a lot of people.

 

It's the EU way, last minute and all that.

Sure I heard on the tv that the German Finance minister thinks there will still be a deal & if anybody knows the Germans will, but as you said what that deal looks like is a different matter.

There is one thing for sure, there never was going to be a deal, any deal which pleased everybody, was never and could never happen as somebody would be disappointed no matter what.

The trick is selling it to enough people to get it through parliament.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jambo-Jimbo

[Cade]

May makes statement to the Commons.

 

Nothing has changed.

We still have no deal and no clue what we're doing.

 

 

[Boab1874]

Bottom line is out the E U border Ireland.W T O border Ireland. Remember 90% of the food on sale now was not available pre common market.

[frankblack]

23 minutes ago, Boab1874 said:

Bottom line is out the E U border Ireland.W T O border Ireland. Remember 90% of the food on sale now was not available pre common market.

 

Neither were home computers, mobile phones, and CD players - what is your point, caller?

[Spellczech]

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Slightly different circumstances, wouldn't you agree?  But re-entry would have been straightforward.

 

What we have here, today is an omnishambles that beggars belief!

Not if Spain veto'd an independent Scotland application to join EU, which they strongly hinted they would do because of Catalonia and Basque Region...

[Cade]

9 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Not if Spain veto'd an independent Scotland application to join EU, which they strongly hinted they would do because of Catalonia and Basque Region...

This old chestnut again?!

 

Spain have since dropped that stupid policy after it was pointed out that they never vetoed any of the other separated nations from entering.

Slovakia, Czech Republic, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia etc etc etc etc

[Spellczech]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

This old chestnut again?!

 

Spain have since dropped that stupid policy after it was pointed out that they never vetoed any of the other separated nations from entering.

Slovakia, Czech Republic, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia etc etc etc etc

Never heard that TBH - sure it is not SNP rhetoric after the fact? - as neither of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia etc separated whilst member states though...

[Spellczech]

4 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/02/spain-drops-plan-to-impose-veto-if-scotland-tries-to-join-eu

 

I was like you and had noticed the change. Though I guess brexit has changed things for lots of people.

 

That said I do not think it would be a straight forward process for a variety of reasons. However, the Spanish not using their veto would seem to be a positive imo if Scotland ever chooses to leave the U.K.

 

 

Cheers. Proper politicking that, huh? Change of policy once the vote has been cast and 4 days after Brexit ref...

 

I hate politicians. Bunch of power-grabbing slimey flip-floppers the lot of them!

Edited October 15, 2018 by Spellczech

[maroonlegions]

No-deal Brexit 'probably inevitable', DUP says

 

INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

 

 

DUP running the Government ?

[maroonlegions]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Cheers. Proper politicking that, huh? Change of policy once the vote has been cast and 4 days after Brexit ref...

 

I hate politicians. Bunch of power-grabbing slimey flip-floppers the lot of them!

The corporate elite .

 

They serve the money men, that is why the fear and hate Corbyn.

[maroonlegions]

[Cade]

Knives being sharpened in the hallways of Westminster tonight, by all accounts.

Secret wee meetings in small rooms all over the shop.

Absolute anarchy.

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, Cade said:

Knives being sharpened in the hallways of Westminster tonight, by all accounts.

Secret wee meetings in small rooms all over the shop.

Absolute anarchy.

[Space Mackerel]

3 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Not if Spain veto'd an independent Scotland application to join EU, which they strongly hinted they would do because of Catalonia and Basque Region...

 

Youve been reading Stephen Daisly in The Express again you wee scamp. 

[jake]

2 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Nicola Trump

[Space Mackerel]

3 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Never heard that TBH - sure it is not SNP rhetoric after the fact? - as neither of Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia etc separated whilst member states though...

 

Food for thought

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/europe-can-t-afford-to-lose-scotland-says-guy-verhofstadt-1-4365925

[jake]

2 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

No-deal Brexit 'probably inevitable', DUP says

 

INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

 

 

DUP running the Government ?

DUP representing their voters wishes .

And whether you or I may disagree with their views.

They are democrats.

And they are not running government .

They are reacting as unionists to the EU trying to as they see it split the union as a prequisite to a deal.

If you believe that to be the DUP in control then that's your look out.

 

[jake]

13 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Food for thought

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/europe-can-t-afford-to-lose-scotland-says-guy-verhofstadt-1-4365925

Aye right.

 

????

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, jake said:

Aye right.

 

????

 

Wassup jake? 

 

I mean I have to get specialised gear imported from Germany these days as the U.K. supplier is shite. 

[Geoff the Mince]

13 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Wassup jake? 

 

I mean I have to get specialised gear imported from Germany these days as the U.K. supplier is shite. 

What you can't buy UK tinfoil ? 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Geoff the Mince said:

What you can't buy UK tinfoil ? 

 

Geoff, I know you’re desperate to troll but let jake answer ?

[Dawnrazor]

5 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Geoff, I know you’re desperate to troll but let jake answer ?

? ? ? ? ? 

Spacey, take a step back from the keyboard because you're making a bigger erse of yourself than usual and that is saying something ?

Now, just think of the embarrassment you'd cause you family or friends if they read the utter hypocritical drivel you post on here, please, if you've an ounce of self dignity left, go to bed?

[jake]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Wassup jake? 

 

I mean I have to get specialised gear imported from Germany these days as the U.K. supplier is shite. 

Aye right.

 

[jake]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Wassup jake? 

 

I mean I have to get specialised gear imported from Germany these days as the U.K. supplier is shite. 

Is there no Scottish supply

[jake]

It's an absolute full on project fear on social media.

And I'd warn nationalists that the tactics they are employing go against a core of the Indy support.

Pathetic.

[Boris]

11 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Food for thought

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/europe-can-t-afford-to-lose-scotland-says-guy-verhofstadt-1-4365925

 

The article is 18 months old.  Interesting to hear what he thinks now.

 

11 hours ago, jake said:

DUP representing their voters wishes .

And whether you or I may disagree with their views.

They are democrats.

And they are not running government .

They are reacting as unionists to the EU trying to as they see it split the union as a prequisite to a deal.

If you believe that to be the DUP in control then that's your look out.

 

 

NI voted to remain, yet the DUP are happy to crash their entire country.  Not running Government?  They have May by the proverbials and are try to leverage that.  So not only do we have neo-liberal economic loons trying to force the issue, they are aided and abetted by a bunch of religious zealots.

 

And you talk of democracy?

[Francis Albert]

28 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

 

 

NI voted to remain, yet the DUP are happy to crash their entire country.  Not running Government?  They have May by the proverbials and are try to leverage that.  So not only do we have neo-liberal economic loons trying to force the issue, they are aided and abetted by a bunch of religious zealots.

 

And you talk of democracy?

I doubt DUP voters voted Remain.

You talk of democracy yet dismiss a large part of the electorate as religious zealots

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I doubt DUP voters voted Remain.

You talk of democracy yet dismiss a large part of the electorate as religious zealots

 

I referred to the DUP as religious zealots.  However, had I been referring to DUP voters in such a way, how precisely is that undemocratic?  

 

Regards DUP voters, they are a minority then, given remain won in NI?

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I referred to the DUP as religious zealots.  However, had I been referring to DUP voters in such a way, how precisely is that undemocratic?  

 

Regards DUP voters, they are a minority then, given remain won in NI?

A minority as were remain voters in the uk. Not that you would guess from their reaction to the result

Failing to respect votes because you disagree with the views of the voters is undemocratic.

 

 

 

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

 

Failing to respect votes because you disagree with the views of the voters is undemocratic.

 

 

Rubbish.  One doesn't have to respect the voters or rather what they are voting for, but a democrat will respect the process.

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Rubbish.  One doesn't have to respect the voters or rather what they are voting for, but a democrat will respect the process.

Well in some cases apparently only if the vote gives the right answer. It was a UK vote. Whether NI or Scotland or London voters were in the UK majority or minority is as itrelevant as whether my street was.

Edited October 16, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Well if the vote gives the right answer. It was a UK vote. Whether NI or Scotland or London voters were in the UK majority or minority is as itrelevant as whether my street was.

 

So the DUP only represent the minority view of NI, but they are right and the majority in NI are wrong?

 

If anything, this highlights the lack of democtratic accountabilty within a nation of four equal constituents.  Because some are more equal than others.

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So the DUP only represent the minority view of NI, but they are right and the majority in NI are wrong?

 

If anything, this highlights the lack of democtratic accountabilty within a nation of four equal constituents.  Because some are more equal than others.

 

When you say represent the minority view, are you discounting the other unionist parties in NI?

 

The vote was a UK vote, and Scotland voted to remain in the UK in 2014 so I wish the SNP would stop greetin and get on with their day jobs.

[pablo]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

So the DUP only represent the minority view of NI, but they are right and the majority in NI are wrong?

 

If anything, this highlights the lack of democtratic accountabilty within a nation of four equal constituents.  Because some are more equal than others.

 

We were asked to vote on a UK issue and all got one vote each. I was as gutted as many the morning of the result. But it didn't feel undemocratic, not to me anyway.

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So the DUP only represent the minority view of NI, but they are right and the majority in NI are wrong?

 

If anything, this highlights the lack of democtratic accountabilty within a nation of four equal constituents.  Because some are more equal than others.

Of course nationally the constituents of 90% aren't equal to the constituents of 10% in electoral terms. Scotland for example has had 300 years to grasp this. Yet recently voted to retain this self evident status.

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

When you say represent the minority view, are you discounting the other unionist parties in NI?

 

NI voted to remain in the EU referendum.  Therefore, leave is in the minority, in relation to how NI voted.

 

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The vote was a UK vote, and Scotland voted to remain in the UK in 2014 so I wish the SNP would stop greetin and get on with their day jobs.

 

Yes, I get that, merely highlighting how we as individual nations within one union do not have an equal voice.