Fraud at Hearts ( edited )

[Disco Dave]

Obviously we dont know the details of this yet but I find it incredible that you can transfer 80 grand, let alone £750k without some additional checks and balances going on by the banks.

 

Internally, surely we should have some controls in place that say any payment over x amount requires authorisation by at least one other senior member of staff....... Unless of course it was a really senior member of staff who authorised the payment(s).

 

Either way, we clearly need to tighten up our processes although I’m sure Budge has done this already.

[upgotheheads]

That figure of 80k is around the sum we make from tv games (I think).

Maybe there's a connection. TV money being diverted maybe?

[Jambof3tornado]

8 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

That figure of 80k is around the sum we make from tv games (I think).

Maybe there's a connection. TV money being diverted maybe?

2+2=7

 

Speculation is pointless.

[Harry Potter]

Just heard on the radio , hearts were not caught out by this fraud.

[kila]

11 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Just heard on the radio , hearts were not caught out by this fraud.

 

If that is true then last night's statement should've said fraud attempt

[Harry Potter]

2 minutes ago, Barack said:

Be a bit embarrassing for some, if that’s the case.

 

”Aye, but Budge should’ve foreseen an attempt. Needs to get her McAfee sorted!”

Think what the radio was saying , an attempt was made but was spotted .

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Do we even know what this fraud involved?

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Do we even know what this fraud involved?

 

 

No. But we are clear who is at fault though. ?

[redjambo]

18 minutes ago, kila said:

 

If that is true then last night's statement should've said fraud attempt

 

Indeed.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Can we just blame Scot Gardiner?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

18 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Can we just blame Scot Gardiner?

 

Pretty sure someone on here already has

[i wish jj was my dad]

11 hours ago, Bowmans_Boot said:

Sometimes Hearts fans are dicks. Read the Hamilton thread (now quiet) & the Jamie Walker ones for evidence. 

Aye.  Some 'Hearts fans' are still are trying to blame everyone but Jamie for him trying to engineer a move to the huns.

 

On topic, Scottish football can't afford to see any money lost to the game.  

[1971fozzy]

So are we £80k down or not ?

[frankblack]

If the club spotted this and dealt with it appropriately then the correct checks were made.

Do incoming invoices have to be matched to a purchase order from inside the business before payment can be authorised?

[Beast Boy]

46 minutes ago, Barack said:

Be a bit embarrassing for some, if that’s the case.

 

”Aye, but Budge should’ve foreseen an attempt. Needs to get her McAfee sorted!”

 

 

 

[Beast Boy]

Great news that we weren't affected. Maybe Hamilton arrange a fundraising match? Hopefully not against us though, playing them 3/4 times a season is enough of an injury and suspension risk. They could raffle off McKinnon and Imrie's boots afterwards.

[Marvin]

Not the best thing to see 1st thing Saturday morning In a digital age fraud is a huge problem. Hope the culprit gets caught. 
 

 

[1971fozzy]

The seethe on sisterslovers.net if we weren’t affected will be a joy to read. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Not sure how much sympathy I have for Hamilton. Losing £1m like that? Seems very weird.

[Bowmans_Boot]

46 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Aye.  Some 'Hearts fans' are still are trying to blame everyone but Jamie for him trying to engineer a move to the huns.

 

On topic, Scottish football can't afford to see any money lost to the game.  

The on topic part, I fully agree. 

[Coburg Hearts]

2 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

Just heard on the radio , hearts were not caught out by this fraud.

Hope this is the case but can't find it anywhere . What radio channel did you hear this on? 

[jambali]

14 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

From the brief statement Hearts must have known about for a while or am I misreading it.

Yip

 

Poor by the club

[McCrae]

2 hours ago, Disco Dave said:

Obviously we dont know the details of this yet but I find it incredible that you can transfer 80 grand, let alone £750k without some additional checks and balances going on by the banks.

 

Internally, surely we should have some controls in place that say any payment over x amount requires authorisation by at least one other senior member of staff....... Unless of course it was a really senior member of staff who authorised the payment(s).

 

Either way, we clearly need to tighten up our processes although I’m sure Budge has done this already.

 

This is what should happen.  

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, jambali said:

Yip

 

Poor by the club

Why is it poor by the club?

[Coburg Hearts]

1 minute ago, jambali said:

Yip

 

Poor by the club

How is it poor? What if the police have told Hearts not to mention it so as not to alert the fraudsters that the police are on to them, as often happens in such cases? 

[Heartsofgold]

Everyone commenting that it's poor by the club not saying anything before, we don't know the full details.  it may be that the Police have been involved for some time but only now have escalated it to a full investigation.  If so then the club are not allowed to comment at all on an active criminal investigation.  

[Independence]

10 minutes ago, jambali said:

Yip

 

Poor by the club

Why? Bizarre comment!

[Jammy T]

15 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

 £80k is what I heard.

 

Human error. Honest mistake. Bill from a contractor paid by funds transfer. Except the bill was paid to fraudsters.

 

 

 

If we lost cash it is another loss from the construction model we entered into....

 

Well known fraud in construction business.

 

Fraudster gets headed paper of contractor. Sends letter to client advising of change of banks - new bank account is accessible by fraudster. Client pays money to new account without checking with contractor accounts team directly - money lost and contractor still due money.

 

Might be covered by insurance but I'd expect any decent sized company to have fraud protection measures in place.

 

Another bollock dropped re stand build if money gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beast Boy]

25 minutes ago, jambali said:

Yip

 

Poor by the club

 

Lost me. How come?

[Boof]

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

Great news that we weren't affected. Maybe Hamilton arrange a fundraising match? Hopefully not against us though, playing them 3/4 times a season is enough of an injury and suspension risk. They could raffle off McKinnon and Imrie's boots afterwards.

 

Better if they raffle their boots beforehand to minimise they damage they could inflict.

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

Great news that we weren't affected. Maybe Hamilton arrange a fundraising match? Hopefully not against us though, playing them 3/4 times a season is enough of an injury and suspension risk. They could raffle off McKinnon and Imrie's boots afterwards.

 

They could raffle off McKinnon and Imrie full stop.

[VivaObua]

This has to be linked to the 80k we paid  for Kenny Anderson who I believe now plays for a 2nd division Icelandic team? 

[Jamboelite]

Just now, VivaObua said:

This has to be linked to the 80k we paid  for Kenny Anderson who I believe now plays for a 2nd division Icelandic team? 

 

It really doesnt.

 

Apparently the two incidents of us amd Hamilton are unrelated according to the papers.

 

its more likely to be the stand as there will be mutliple contractor invoices.

 

Do we even know if they actually got money from us or just attempted it.

[luckydug]

Why do people post stuff when they have no idea what's happening.

It's a Police investigation they are hardly going to make recorded highlights programme just to satisfy folk on a football forum.

The truth will be revealed eventually .

[Beast Boy]

33 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Better if they raffle their boots beforehand to minimise they damage they could inflict.

 

Youre not thinking outside the box here. If they raffle them after the game, then they will come with added extras like players’ teeth and chunks of flesh.

[hueyview]

Mentioned now on Off The Ball....  Hearts, Hamilton and now wee Annan....  Are there no depths to which these scoundrels will not go........    

[Beast Boy]

19 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

They could raffle off McKinnon and Imrie full stop.

 

I think the aim would be to try and make money though. If they tried to raffle them off as professional football players, it’d be Accies who were up on charges of fraud.

[Morgan]

24 minutes ago, VivaObua said:

This has to be linked to the 80k we paid  for Kenny Anderson who I believe now plays for a 2nd division Icelandic team? 

Why?

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

2+2=7

 

Speculation is pointless.

 

Resistance is futile.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

If we lost cash it is another loss from the construction model we entered into....

 

Well known fraud in construction business.

 

Fraudster gets headed paper of contractor. Sends letter to client advising of change of banks - new bank account is accessible by fraudster. Client pays money to new account without checking with contractor accounts team directly - money lost and contractor still due money.

 

Might be covered by insurance but I'd expect any decent sized company to have fraud protection measures in place.

 

Another bollock dropped re stand build if money gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you lose out on a pitch for the work? You've been pretty negative about all aspects of the build. Poor stuff.

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

If we lost cash it is another loss from the construction model we entered into....

 

Well known fraud in construction business.

 

Fraudster gets headed paper of contractor. Sends letter to client advising of change of banks - new bank account is accessible by fraudster. Client pays money to new account without checking with contractor accounts team directly - money lost and contractor still due money.

 

Might be covered by insurance but I'd expect any decent sized company to have fraud protection measures in place.

 

Another bollock dropped re stand build if money gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One of many possibilities. 

[Jammy T]

11 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Did you lose out on a pitch for the work? You've been pretty negative about all aspects of the build. Poor stuff.

 

Everyone I work with thought it was nuts for the club to set the construction model up the way they did and weren’t at all surprised a mistake like the seats happened.

 

if it was driven purely by economics and was the only way we could build it fair dues, but the project was in principle too risky for a construction management model with a client inexperienced in construction projects.

 

Thats all

 

[Jammy T]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

One of many possibilities. 

 

To be fair we’d be in good company - happened on Crossrail.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Jammy T said:

 

Everyone I work with though it was nuts for the club to set the construction model up the way they did and weren’t at all surprised a mistake like the seats happened.

 

if it was driven purely by economics and was the only way we could build it fair dues, but the project was in principle too risky for a construction management model with a client inexperienced in construction projects.

 

Thats all

 

 

I'd need someone to explain in basic English what the "construction model" chosen was in relation to the one you and your colleagues think the model should have been. No buzz words or industry jargon please.

[jambali]

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

 

Lost me. How come?

1 They could have released a holding statement.

2 There are shareholders/investors who deserve information. A statement should have been ready to issue now that it is out

3 Supporters deserve information. As customers it is possible their information has been compromised.

 

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, jambali said:

1 They could have released a holding statement.

2 There are shareholders/investors who deserve information. A statement should have been ready to issue now that it is out

3 Supporters deserve information. As customers it is possible their information has been compromised.

 

 

I would have thought any directly affected party would have been kept up to date?

 

As for letting the fans know, if we haven’t actually lost any money, then I’m not particularly bothered about being told. Maybe the police asked us to remain quiet about it in public?

[davemclaren]

11 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

To be fair we’d be in good company - happened on Crossrail.

It can certainly happen but everyone is just speculating at present. 

[The Future's Maroon]

If there is a police investigation ongoing, which there is, the club can't release any details with potential court case coming up (if the shysters are caught).

 

The club said this in their statement, I'm puzzled...what do people not get about that?

 

 

[Jamboelite]

16 minutes ago, jambali said:

1 They could have released a holding statement.

2 There are shareholders/investors who deserve information. A statement should have been ready to issue now that it is out

3 Supporters deserve information. As customers it is possible their information has been compromised.

 

 

If customer information has been compromised as Hearts hadnt informed those affected then they would be liable.

 

no way 3 has happened imho.

[sinbad]

Would be declared in accounts would it not? So would become public at some point