Bowmans_Boot Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, Koolkeith said: Owning an IT company is a broad term. She owned a testing consultancy company. It’s like saying you work in the car industry and people expecting you to know how to fix a car. Ann does know about IT. It is a weak argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, luckydug said: I just had a look at that thread for the first time and although there are some unsympathetic posts the majority do feel sorry for them. Maybe the Mods got there before me and cleaned it up. Let's just hope that the latest cases are not just the tip of a large iceberg. No it hasnt been cleaned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Sooperstar said: It does. My guess is a fake invoice re stadium works or something like that. The seats never turned up right enough!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowmans_Boot Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Oliver Twist said: I don't discuss/debate with charlatans. I'll comment on what I like concerning anything I like. Nice to know your Hearts, whatever that means. Why not just email the club about everything? Then you dont need to post at all. So which clubs forum should I post on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said: Ann does know about IT. It is a weak argument. Have you spoken to her about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I feel I should apologise for not caring about Hamilton... I just don't honestly like the club very much. I could lie, but I don't. As long as it just causes them a pain in the hole, and no serious harm. I'm quite easy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowmans_Boot Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, Koolkeith said: Have you spoken to her about this? What? Seriously?? Ann knows about IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I see some of the usual suspects are using Hearts being a victim of a crime as an excuse to have a sky wee dig at their own club. As sad and dull as it is predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Bowmans_Boot said: What? Seriously?? Ann knows about IT. You are aware there are multiple areas of specialty in IT though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Och, feck Hearts and Hamilton, I'm off for a pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 She’s not necessarily going to know personally the ins and outs of every facet of IT. I work in IT, doesn’t mean I know everything. Blaming her because she knows about IT is just as weak an argument. Particularly when we don’t know the details of the fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ryder said: I feel I should apologise for not caring about Hamilton... I just don't honestly like the club very much. I could lie, but I don't. As long as it just causes them a pain in the hole, and no serious harm. I'm quite easy about it. Oh well, that's alright then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Jamboelite said: You are aware there are multiple areas of specialty in IT though ? Clearly not. So you work in IT, can you fix my computer for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, Bowmans_Boot said: What? Seriously?? Ann knows about IT. Are you trying to say Budge is at fault somehow here? How do you know the nature of the fraud is down to an IT error or security flaw or hackers or whatnot? And how do you know it is even the fault of the club? According to the news reports there are some very sophisticated fraudsters around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, redjambo said: Oh well, that's alright then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said: Why not just email the club about everything? Then you dont need to post at all. So which clubs forum should I post on? Plymouth Argyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jamboelite said: You are aware there are multiple areas of specialty in IT though ? I'm sure Ann personally installed the security systems and email filtering applications that may have been breached here. Probably wrote them herself since she knows about IT and that. Nightmare for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jamboelite said: You are aware there are multiple areas of specialty in IT though ? You mean it's not just two guys in a basement office telling folk to switch their computer off and on again?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said: Ann does know about IT. It is a weak argument. These scams aren't really about IT strength though. They almost always rely on tricking individuals within businesses. As FF correctly points out by having the right controls in place these risks can be mitigated but to imply it's an IT issue is misleading despite it being described as Internet fraud. If they were hacked then that would be a different issue but that doesn't seem to have been the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Some wankers really blaming the club for being caught out by a fraud without knowing all the details. Any excuse eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said: What? Seriously?? Ann knows about IT. The fraud may have been perpetrated through the medium of IT, but in most cases fraud is carried out on a human level. There is not much you can do IT-wise to guard against that, the only thing you can do is educate individuals against the potential dangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ryder said: I feel I should apologise for not caring about Hamilton... I just don't honestly like the club very much. I could lie, but I don't. As long as it just causes them a pain in the hole, and no serious harm. I'm quite easy about it. Fine. That's not at all the way you're last post came across though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 So just to clarify. Its our fault that Hamilton got defraded cause we didnt say anything. Its our fault because AB who is apparently the worlds greatest cyber security expert didnt see this coming Its the fans fault cause a limited few felt no concern for another football club Its the clubs fault for any and all human error. That about cover it ? Oh and just the small matter that none of us know how this occured and what the root cause of the fraud was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bowmans_Boot said: Why not just email the club about everything? Then you dont need to post at all. So which clubs forum should I post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said: These scams aren't really about IT strength though. They almost always rely on tricking individuals within businesses. As FF correctly points out by having the right controls in place these risks can be mitigated but to imply it's an IT issue is misleading despite it being described as Internet fraud. If they were hacked then that would be a different issue but that doesn't seem to have been the case. Internet fraud is different from IT fraud anyhow as you can't be completely secure on the internet these days anymore than you can be completely secure in your own home no matter how much security you install. Someone will find a way in. You can't expect a business like Hearts to spend a fortune on IT security but they should be aware of basic security best practice, which we should trust they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feedthefox Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Peebo said: Oshaniwa’s agent involved? Haha v good just looked at this and that’s a great start.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coburg Hearts Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, redjambo said: Agreed. We're getting pretty distracted from the matter in hand, the fact we've been defrauded out of a significant sum of money. Of course, there's not much we can do about it except offer our support to the club, and to the individual involved if relevant, and hope that measures are put in place, and continually updated, to avoid anything like this happening again. Well said, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Anyhow, this is nowhere near the most interesting football related fraud stories. Carlos Kaiser or Ali Dia anyone? https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/apr/26/the-forgotten-story-of-carlos-kaiser-footballs-greatest-conman As others have said fraud is usually more about exploiting human weaknesses than technology flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Stole £5.71 from every single season ticket sold is what I've heard. What ever happened to choring a penny in the hope nobody would notice. Modern day criminals are right Shitebags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, socrates82 said: You mean it's not just two guys in a basement office telling folk to switch their computer off and on again?! Thats about 80% of IT to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jamboelite said: So just to clarify. Its our fault that Hamilton got defraded cause we didnt say anything. Its our fault because AB who is apparently the worlds greatest cyber security expert didnt see this coming Its the fans fault cause a limited few felt no concern for another football club Its the clubs fault for any and all human error. That about cover it ? 1. No 2. No (but it might bear some scrutiny) 3. No (but those who are quite happy to see Hamilton in that position are dicks) 4. No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, redjambo said: Oh well, that's alright then. I know I should feel bad, I know it, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Jamboelite said: Thats about 80% of IT to be fair. Spot on. The other 20% is spent Googling for a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, Barack said: Ann’s sat over a bank of pc monitors 24/7, diligently checking her firewalls, incase of cyber attacks, & monitoring her employee’s potentially lax attitudes towards internet security, right enough. JKB. The home of the infallible poster. Place is full of perfect folk . Never make mistakes, Bastian's of moral, social and practical practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mir00005 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Human error or not, it's not hard to contact a supplier to confirm bank details. Very silly behaviour. It's not always guaranteed that you will get your money back via the bank. Let's hope Hearts did. We need all the cash we can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hopefully all the clubs that have been involved in this can get the money back. Hamilton are a grand old club so hopefully they can get through this and it does not put their existence in doubt. Fingers crossed for them. As a club that came damn close a few years back I'm sure Hearts fans more than most will sympathise with what has happened. Will be interesting to see if more clubs come out in the coming days with similar stories. Every penny is a prisoner in Scottish football so this is not needed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, mir00005 said: Human error or not, it's not hard to contact a supplier to confirm bank details. Very silly behaviour. It's not always guaranteed that you will get your money back via the bank. Let's hope Hearts did. We need all the cash we can get I 'm waiting on someone demanding to know if we were insured and did we get our money back. This Internet fraud stuff gives me the fear it really does. Am I the only one who opens their Internet bank account with bated breath in case some so an so has emptied my account overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Think I'll wait until the full story comes out officially rather than trust what the Sun choose to print. Thaf having been said, if one of my customers issues me with an invoice with different bank details, I'll phone them to confirm before I set up the new payment details and remit the payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Gigolo-Aunt said: Hopefully all the clubs that have been involved in this can get the money back. Hamilton are a grand old club so hopefully they can get through this and it does not put their existence in doubt. Fingers crossed for them. As a club that came damn close a few years back I'm sure Hearts fans more than most will sympathise with what has happened. Will be interesting to see if more clubs come out in the coming days with similar stories. Every penny is a prisoner in Scottish football so this is not needed at all. As much as there are a few distasteful posts on the Hamilton thread I am sure the vast majority of Hearts fans are feeling for them. You are right about other clubs being affected I would be surprised if that is not the case. Not that I want anyone to get stung but it would have made more sense if the fraudsters targeted some of the EPL billions and left us paupers in Scotland alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 46 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said: Fine. That's not at all the way you're last post came across though. Thanks for your approval MJ, you gigantic Hun-sympathiser you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, Ryder said: Thanks for your approval MJ, you gigantic Hun-sympathiser you. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, luckydug said: As much as there are a few distasteful posts on the Hamilton thread I am sure the vast majority of Hearts fans are feeling for them. You are right about other clubs being affected I would be surprised if that is not the case. Not that I want anyone to get stung but it would have made more sense if the fraudsters targeted some of the EPL billions and left us paupers in Scotland alone. Would like to think so Lucky - we sailed bloody close to the wind a few years back. Will be interesting to see if this affects English football as well in the EPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, luckydug said: I 'm waiting on someone demanding to know if we were insured and did we get our money back. This Internet fraud stuff gives me the fear it really does. Am I the only one who opens their Internet bank account with bated breath in case some so an so has emptied my account overnight. I had money taken out of my business account over 10 years ago. Got it all back from the bank thankfully.. anyway, I imagine most companies get defrauded now and then. Processes and systems are not infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Jamboelite said: Thats about 80% of IT to be fair. 2 hours ago, redjambo said: Spot on. The other 20% is spent Googling for a solution. That's not fair lads, I was in tech support for years and you're dead wrong. It's more like 70/30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 How about this scenario. Invoice comes into Hearts for thousands of seats for our new stand. A certain member of staff who recently left the club pays invoice. Invoice is found to be a forgery sent by fraudsters. Hearts £80,000 out of pocket. To be a good cop you have to think like a criminal lol. 2 hours ago, luckydug said: I 'm waiting on someone demanding to know if we were insured and did we get our money back. This Internet fraud stuff gives me the fear it really does. Am I the only one who opens their Internet bank account with bated breath in case some so an so has emptied my account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zico Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Boo Hearts, rubbish etc. I bet Ann didn’t even switch the club computer off and switch it on again. Some IT ‘expert’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 1 hour ago, mitch41 said: How about this scenario. Invoice comes into Hearts for thousands of seats for our new stand. A certain member of staff who recently left the club pays invoice. Invoice is found to be a forgery sent by fraudsters. Hearts £80,000 out of pocket. To be a good cop you have to think like a criminal lol. You catch many criminals in your time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 7 hours ago, redjambo said: As far as I'm concerned, even if a club or person is insured, fraud is still a nasty crime. The immediate effect of having been scammed and losing money can usually be taken on board by a company (perhaps not by the individual involved in the error if it wasn't a systematic failure) but to an individual person who has been scammed it can be psychologically devastating, an unwarranted invasion. Also, even if insurance is in place, there could well be knock-on effects such as the cost of short-term financing before the insurance payout as well as raised premiums in the future. Without knowing the fraud, insurance may not cover it. If you send money to a dodgy account, it is tough, as your were the one that sent the money. Hardh, but I think that is the the rule and lives and businesses have been ruined as a result. It was disappointing to see some people laugh at Hamilton or say ‘feck them’ when they have done. I harm to them. I hope they re-evaluate this now we have been hit, albeit on a much lesser scale (fortunately), though I am concerned about what it was and how we ‘fell’ for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haken Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 5 hours ago, mitch41 said: How about this scenario. Invoice comes into Hearts for thousands of seats for our new stand. A certain member of staff who recently left the club pays invoice. Invoice is found to be a forgery sent by fraudsters. Hearts £80,000 out of pocket. To be a good cop you have to think like a criminal lol. This thread, and posts like this, totally vindicate the club in not going public with this. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidthebaw Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 8 hours ago, Jamboelite said: You are aware there are multiple areas of specialty in IT though ? ..also it was fraud not necessarily hacking. You can be a victim of fraud with/without a computer, it depends on what the fraudsters have done. An invoice to be paid, a less than vigilant member of staff giving details over the phone. Numerous ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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