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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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11 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

May needs to stop listening to her party, and stop putting her own survival first,

and start listening to the people ( not those who claim to represent the people ironically enough)

 

This SHOULD NOT BE A PARTY POLITICAL THING

 

She could easily form a group with all parties involved - SNP, wales, NI , large chunks of the labour party and so on to form a soft-Brexit steering group

 

This is above Tory internal politics, and it is far greater than her career,

and deserves to be treated as such

 

Anna Soubry was saying as much this morning on tv, where she said that everybody needs to come together from all parties and work together to get the best deal possible for the UK, not the best deal for the Tory Party or the Labour Party or Scotland or Wales, but the best deal for the UK as a whole.

She added that she has compromised and is now behind getting the best deal for the UK, it's time for other people to compromise as well now.

 

I can't argue with her.

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7 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Anna Soubry was saying as much this morning on tv, where she said that everybody needs to come together from all parties and work together to get the best deal possible for the UK, not the best deal for the Tory Party or the Labour Party or Scotland or Wales, but the best deal for the UK as a whole.

She added that she has compromised and is now behind getting the best deal for the UK, it's time for other people to compromise as well now.

 

I can't argue with her.

Agreed, but Joe Public will suffer further as various leaders try to make financial and political capital out of the situation. 

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1 hour ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

 

 

Yet without full EU membership, a deal which keeps Scotland in the Single Market (EEA and EFTA) would be an advantage in the case of independence. 

 

Agreed. But if we are independent then we should join the EU. Scotland if independent will be more aligned to Ireland's style of free market independence than the Scandinavian model meaning the Euro etc would make more sense.

 

Honestly cannot see this Scandi-Scotland dream of some. I'd like it. But in all honesty our economy will be aligned to our lower tax neighbours in Ireland and England in the event of independence. 

 

Either way this has opened a Pandoras box where nothing can be squared by the PM. Her solution is to unite the soft brexiteers on all sides of the house and in the process destroy her party unity. Won't happen but a national government of the Liberals-Moderate Labour-One Nation Tories with SNP and Plaid would see us solve this crisis easily.

Edited by JamboX2
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Dusk_Till_Dawn

A pig's ear.

 

I don't like the DUP but I do see their point. This is just a bit of a hatchet job designed to help push Brexit through.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
31 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Agreed, but Joe Public will suffer further as various leaders try to make financial and political capital out of the situation. 

 

I saw that Tony Blair back in the mix earlier this week (trying to keep himself relevant). If like me you voted remain, he's the last person you want siding with you.

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Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

I saw that Tony Blair back in the mix earlier this week (trying to keep himself relevant). If like me you voted remain, he's the last person you want siding with you.

 

Indeed. Blair lost his political capital a long while ago. He's now a liability and, for the sake of those who want to retain as strong ties to the EU as possible, he should do the right thing and just keep away.

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3 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Invade the Republic and make them all British. Problem solved.

Some Tory backbenchers and all of the DUP have actually said that Ireland should leave the EU and re-join the UK.

 

:rofl: 

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
1 minute ago, Cade said:

Some Tory backbenchers and all of the DUP have actually said that Ireland should leave the EU and re-join the UK.

 

:rofl: 

 

Ireland is generally a right royal pain in the arse, going back many, many years.

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8 minutes ago, Cade said:

Some Tory backbenchers and all of the DUP have actually said that Ireland should leave the EU and re-join the UK.

 

:rofl: 

 

There's more chance of Hibs winning the Champions League.

 

Edit : Come to think of it, there's more chance of Hearts playing Hibs in a Champions League Final.

 

Really, what an utterly naive and stupid suggestion.  Some people live in a cossetted, deluded bubble.

Edited by SwindonJambo
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22 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

I saw that Tony Blair back in the mix earlier this week (trying to keep himself relevant). If like me you voted remain, he's the last person you want siding with you.

Yep, astonishing that he thinks he's anything but a liability for any campaign.

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14 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Ireland is generally a right royal pain in the arse, going back many, many years.

 

Yes, ever since the island was invaded and ruled by the English, subsequently the British, who proceeded in various ways to treat the native inhabitants like crap. You can't really blame them for deciding to be a pain in the arse in retaliation.

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes, ever since the island was invaded and ruled by the English, subsequently the British, who proceeded in various ways to treat the native inhabitants like crap. You can't really blame them for deciding to be a pain in the arse in retaliation.

Correct. Unfortunately, may sold out to the religious extremists. Hopefully there will be united Ireland, under the Irish flag, soon. 

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42 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Correct. Unfortunately, may sold out to the religious extremists. Hopefully there will be united Ireland, under the Irish flag, soon. 

 

At risk of going off-topic, although a politically united Ireland would seem a worthwhile aim given the history of the island and its people, it certainly wouldn't be an easy proposition for the foreseeable future. It certainly shouldn't be something that is forced - it would need the will of the Unionists to decide that they can in fact live and prosper in a united Ireland. For the moment, perhaps it's best not to stir the hornet's nest. It's not that long since folk were killing each other. Without wanting to state the obvious, the relationships between Republicans and Unionists, and the North and South, were actually doing not too badly (relatively speaking)  until Brexit reared its head.

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1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

At risk of going off-topic, although a politically united Ireland would seem a worthwhile aim given the history of the island and its people, it certainly wouldn't be an easy proposition for the foreseeable future. It certainly shouldn't be something that is forced - it would need the will of the Unionists to decide that they can in fact live and prosper in a united Ireland. For the moment, perhaps it's best not to stir the hornet's nest. It's not that long since folk were killing each other. Without wanting to state the obvious, the relationships between Republicans and Unionists, and the North and South, were actually doing not too badly (relatively speaking)  until Brexit reared its head.

 

This, with bells and whistles. We've had peace in Northern Ireland for nearly 20 years and achieving and maintaining it was and is a delicate balancing act.  An enforced change like that would be profundly foolish as tensions remain between the 2 sides, albeit well managed.

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People forget just how shaky the peace in NI is.

 

More "peace walls" have been built since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement than before it.

 

Dissidents on both sides are constantly agitating to rip up the accord. 

 

Every year there is the marches/bonfires debates and sectarianism and violence are still rife across the province.

 

The terms of the GFA are non-negotiable and any deviation from them will very swiftly see the resumption of the Troubles.

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22 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Although I would very much like that to be the case, it's too late, imo. For example, the new homes of the European Medicines Agency and European Banking Authority have already been decided. If there had been a groundswell of opinion in the UK, particularly on the streets, I could have seen a potential reverse and second referendum, but the polls have shown not much change in opinions at all, and we have generally accepted the decision without too much public protest.

 

Our only hope was that our "leaving" wouldn't in fact be much of a leaving at all, but that doesn't looks likely either.

 

I have to say, and I will no doubt take pelters for it, that if we could be guaranteed that we would apply for EU membership as part of an independent Scotland then, as an ardent Europhile, I would go against my current political views and vote Yes in a second Scottish Independence referendum. I didn't vote No the last time to stay in a country that would withdraw from the EU. I wanted to be Scottish, British and an EU citizen - if I'm only allowed to choose two out of three then I'll forego being British.

It seems you are not alone, Indy up to 47% according to the new poll released today. And remain up to 68% if there's a EUref2.

Edited by ri Alban
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Upon being shown the "impact assessments" the the Government has been fighting to keep secret for months:
 

"Dick Newby, the Lib Dem leader in the House of Lords, who was one of the first in the reading room, described the tight security as “a complete farce” and said it was incorrect to call the papers impact assessments.

 

“They make no assessment of the impact. They describe the current situation, they explain how the EU operates as well as how other countries work and then a section on what stakeholders think – that’s it. There is zero assessment of the economic impact,” he said. “Nothing is redacted because there is nothing to redact.”

 

:turmoil: 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
3 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

At risk of going off-topic, although a politically united Ireland would seem a worthwhile aim given the history of the island and its people, it certainly wouldn't be an easy proposition for the foreseeable future. It certainly shouldn't be something that is forced - it would need the will of the Unionists to decide that they can in fact live and prosper in a united Ireland. For the moment, perhaps it's best not to stir the hornet's nest. It's not that long since folk were killing each other. Without wanting to state the obvious, the relationships between Republicans and Unionists, and the North and South, were actually doing not too badly (relatively speaking)  until Brexit reared its head.

I know, but for purely selfish reasons, I'd love to see the DUPs' faces when they realise the unionists sold them a dull one.

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Space Mackerel
8 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

Agreed. But if we are independent then we should join the EU. Scotland if independent will be more aligned to Ireland's style of free market independence than the Scandinavian model meaning the Euro etc would make more sense.

 

Honestly cannot see this Scandi-Scotland dream of some. I'd like it. But in all honesty our economy will be aligned to our lower tax neighbours in Ireland and England in the event of independence. 

 

Either way this has opened a Pandoras box where nothing can be squared by the PM. Her solution is to unite the soft brexiteers on all sides of the house and in the process destroy her party unity. Won't happen but a national government of the Liberals-Moderate Labour-One Nation Tories with SNP and Plaid would see us solve this crisis easily.

 

Guess you’ve missed this going on for the last few years?

 

http://www.arcticcircle.org/

 

Last one was in Edinburgh in November. 

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4 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

At risk of going off-topic, although a politically united Ireland would seem a worthwhile aim given the history of the island and its people, it certainly wouldn't be an easy proposition for the foreseeable future. It certainly shouldn't be something that is forced - it would need the will of the Unionists to decide that they can in fact live and prosper in a united Ireland. For the moment, perhaps it's best not to stir the hornet's nest. It's not that long since folk were killing each other. Without wanting to state the obvious, the relationships between Republicans and Unionists, and the North and South, were actually doing not too badly (relatively speaking)  until Brexit reared its head.

 

Jaysus, that escalated quickly.  :cheese:

 

This is a straightforward problem, and solving it doesn't require any changes to relationships within and across these islands, or to the constitutional status of any part of these islands.  The EU wants regulatory alignment between both sides of the land frontier.  The DUP and unionists generally want regulatory alignment across the United Kingdom.  The United Kingdom wants to leave the EU, and have as open access as possible to its markets afterwards.

 

These requirements can all be reconciled easily enough, in the presence of the political will to reconcile them.  May knows that.  Foster knows that.  Sturgeon and Jones know that.  Varadkar, Tusk, Barnier and Juncker know that. 

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51 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Guess you’ve missed this going on for the last few years?

 

http://www.arcticcircle.org/

 

Last one was in Edinburgh in November. 

Co-operation with nations on the likes of defence, green energy and science (Arctic Circle) is in no way the same as modelling your economy to match those nations.

 

Eg - NATO. Denmark, Lithuania, France, Britain and Holland in. All have massively different economic models in place. 

 

What is true though, is nations try and prevent being at a disadvantage from their nearest neighbours. So a high personal tax, high business tax EU Scotland could be at a disadvantage to it's nearest neighbour Ireland and rUK on a more liberal model. Can't see the Finance Minister lasting long on that front.

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2 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I know, but for purely selfish reasons, I'd love to see the DUPs' faces when they realise the unionists sold them a dull one.

 

The DUP’s faces (not a pretty sight at the best of times) would be the least of anyone’s worries. The more extreme loyalists would go absolutely berserk and there would be huge riots and worse. Unfortunately Ulster Politics is highly combustible and as Cade said, any backpedaling on the GFA would quickly undo 20 years of good work.

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Saw a tweet from Humza Yousef today that summed up my utter frustration at politicians in this country today. But sums up my thoughts on the position we find ourselves in. I'll elaborate:

 

Humza Yousef stated Davidson was more interested in kniffing her leader, siding with the DUP and against "Scotland" than fighting for a soft Brexit on the back of Ruth's statement this morning.

 

Now each one of those statements is a contradiction. Davidson called for whatever applies to NI to apply to the whole UK, including Scotland, to protect the integrity of the union. Foster may not want a soft Brexit but her statement derailing the talks yesterday has somewhat played into the soft Brexiteers hands, like Davidson. Who can now join up Fosters "UK integrity", Irish border and Scottish issue in a simple solution - the UK must stay very close to the EU model and single market.

 

Yousef should, in theory, back this. Afterall despite Sturgeon leading the SNP to 3 or 4 definite positions on the EU since 2015 he should instinctively agree that any opportunity - Ireland - to press on May that a soft Brexit is needed should be jumped on.

 

Unfortunately, the SNP last night jumped too soon (as did Khan in London and Jones in Wales). Demanding their own fiefdoms be afforded special status added unnecessary party politics to an opportunity open to a more cautious or thoughtful set of leaders. Rather than demand their own nations be afforded an NI opt-out they should have said this morning (whilst chaos reigned at Whitehall) that it is clear that to square the circle SM and CU must stay on the table to not only resolve NI/RoI border issues but also to maintain a UK internal market. 

 

In effect uniting the liberal Tories, nationalists and moderate Labour tyoes behind one goal and allowing May and Davis to jettison the likes of Rees-Mogg, Bone, Cash, Foster, Dodds and Paisley whilst scuppering the Faragists by parroting their parliamentary sovereignty lines in justification.

 

The SNP scent blood. So do Labour. This makes co-operation (clandestine or public) with this floundering government hard to stomach. Labour sense power. The SNP sniff indyref2. But both need the economy of all the UK not to be imploding to succeed in their stated aims of governing and independence. A skint UK is harder to make better like Labour want. A skint, wounded and lost UK is a difficult beast to grapple with or neighbour in the event of independence  (see how much the Irish fear a bad Brexit for their economy and relations with the UK). In effect Sturgeon, Corbyn, Yousef, Cable and Soubry should all be praising Davidson as a prominent Tory in a leadership position throwing weight behind a soft-Brexit.

 

The issue is none want to put the national interest before party. The SNP and Labour cannot be seen to agree with a Tory - even in this dire time - for fear of antagonizing their core base. 

 

Watching Rees-Mogg tonight on the Irish border was remarkable. He sullenly stated the Government should tell Varadkar that we "will not build or police any border, if you want one you do it." That to me is astounding ignorance. Added to that IDS said this was politically motivated with the Presidential election due. The presidency of Ireland is powerless and a-political.  Both hardened Brexiteers and both ignorant of reality. This too should be an alarming wake up call to us all.

 

Personally, the DUP should be told you will have close regulation with the EU and the UK will too. The votes are there for it. May should snatch the chance now to act in the national interest. Equally given it is a hung parliament she should seek to form a national government of all the talents to get this through. If Indy had won in 2014 I'd have wanted a Scottish government of all the talents to hand from all parties working together.  To save ourselves and our nation(s) we need one at UK level as I fear a Tory botched Brexit is set to be woeful compared with the opportunity a united, modetate, national government could achieve.

 

 

But we won't see that. 

Edited by JamboX2
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3 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

Saw a tweet from Humza Yousef today that summed up my utter frustration at politicians in this country today. But sums up my thoughts on the position we find ourselves in. I'll elaborate:

 

Humza Yousef stated Davidson was more interested in kniffing her leader, siding with the DUP and against "Scotland" than fighting for a soft Brexit on the back of Ruth's statement this morning.

 

Now each one of those statements is a contradiction. Davidson called for whatever applies to NI to apply to the whole UK, including Scotland, to protect the integrity of the union. Foster may not want a soft Brexit but her statement derailing the talks yesterday has somewhat played into the soft Brexiteers hands, like Davidson. Who can now join up Fosters "UK integrity", Irish border and Scottish issue in a simple solution - the UK must stay very close to the EU model and single market.

 

Yousef should, in theory, back this. Afterall despite Sturgeon leading the SNP to 3 or 4 definite positions on the EU since 2015 he should instinctively agree that any opportunity - Ireland - to press on May that a soft Brexit is needed should be jumped on.

 

Unfortunately, the SNP last night jumped too soon (as did Khan in London and Jones in Wales). Demanding their own fiefdoms be afforded special status added unnecessary party politics to an opportunity open to a more cautious or thoughtful set of leaders. Rather than demand their own nations be afforded an NI opt-out they should have said this morning (whilst chaos reigned at Whitehall) that it is clear that to square the circle SM and CU must stay on the table to not only resolve NI/RoI border issues but also to maintain a UK internal market. 

 

In effect uniting the liberal Tories, nationalists and moderate Labour tyoes behind one goal and allowing May and Davis to jettison the likes of Rees-Mogg, Bone, Cash, Foster, Dodds and Paisley whilst scuppering the Faragists by parroting their parliamentary sovereignty lines in justification.

 

The SNP scent blood. So do Labour. This makes co-operation (clandestine or public) with this floundering government hard to stomach. Labour sense power. The SNP sniff indyref2. But both need the economy of all the UK not to be imploding to succeed in their stated aims of governing and independence. A skint UK is harder to make better like Labour want. A skint, wounded and lost UK is a difficult beast to grapple with or neighbour in the event of independence  (see how much the Irish fear a bad Brexit for their economy and relations with the UK). In effect Sturgeon, Corbyn, Yousef, Cable and Soubry should all be praising Davidson as a prominent Tory in a leadership position throwing weight behind a soft-Brexit.

 

The issue is none want to put the national interest before party. The SNP and Labour cannot be seen to agree with a Tory - even in this dire time - for fear of antagonizing their core base. 

 

Watching Rees-Mogg tonight on the Irish border was remarkable. He sullenly stated the Government should tell Varadkar that we "will not build or police any border, if you want one you do it." That to me is astounding ignorance. Added to that IDS said this was politically motivated with the Presidential election due. The presidency of Ireland is powerless and a-political.  Both hardened Brexiteers and both ignorant of reality. This too should be an alarming wake up call to us all.

 

Personally, the DUP should be told you will have close regulation with the EU and the UK will too. The votes are there for it. May should snatch the chance now to act in the national interest. Equally given it is a hung parliament she should seek to form a national government of all the talents to get this through. If Indy had won in 2014 I'd have wanted a Scottish government of all the talents to hand from all parties working together.  To save ourselves and our nation(s) we need one at UK level as I fear a Tory botched Brexit is set to be woeful compared with the opportunity a united, modetate, national government could achieve.

 

 

But we won't see that. 

Going by the EU withdrawal negotiations, Indy negotiations would still going now. If any party is for party first and only it's the Tories.

I heard the DUP want the same as the UK, well The UK government should impose abortion and gay marriage laws in NI just for her cheek and If she moans, well... You said.

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2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Going by the EU withdrawal negotiations, Indy negotiations would still going now. If any party is for party first and only it's the Tories.

I heard the DUP want the same as the UK, well The UK government should impose abortion and gay marriage laws in NI just for her cheek and If she moans, well... You said.

And overturn devolution in NI? Should the same be true in Scotland and Wales and London?

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4 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

And overturn devolution in NI? Should the same be true in Scotland and Wales and London?

But that's the point. NI already has a different constitutional arrangement to the rest of the U.K.!

 

 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
10 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

The DUP’s faces (not a pretty sight at the best of times) would be the least of anyone’s worries. The more extreme loyalists would go absolutely berserk and there would be huge riots and worse. Unfortunately Ulster Politics is highly combustible and as Cade said, any backpedaling on the GFA would quickly undo 20 years of good work.

Yes, great TV, too. 

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jack D and coke
11 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

Co-operation with nations on the likes of defence, green energy and science (Arctic Circle) is in no way the same as modelling your economy to match those nations.

 

Eg - NATO. Denmark, Lithuania, France, Britain and Holland in. All have massively different economic models in place. 

 

What is true though, is nations try and prevent being at a disadvantage from their nearest neighbours. So a high personal tax, high business tax EU Scotland could be at a disadvantage to it's nearest neighbour Ireland and rUK on a more liberal model. Can't see the Finance Minister lasting long on that front.

Pretty much what I believe too. This socialist utopia would disintegrate rapidly if Scotland ever got Indy. We’d more likely go the opposite way. 

Dont try tell the SNP drones that though. 

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1 hour ago, Boris said:

But that's the point. NI already has a different constitutional arrangement to the rest of the U.K.!

 

 

 

It doesn't in as far as the Government's position. It's got devolution in a manner which is designed to ensure each of it's communities is represented and to enshrine free trade and movement with it's neighbour. 

 

I think this could collapse the Government in the new year and usher in the opposition - which according to Starmer on Radio 4 this morning has said single market and customs union is still on the table.

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2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Pretty much what I believe too. This socialist utopia would disintegrate rapidly if Scotland ever got Indy. We’d more likely go the opposite way. 

Dont try tell the SNP drones that though. 

 

I agree. As someone to the left I think there's a big issue of government by protest and difference in Scotland. It's existed since 1999 but since 2007 has become much more prevalent. The conservatism and reluctance to change in Scotland in terms of democratic institutions and transparency is a major issue. Local government, service provision, the state's role all need discussed. Otherwise we get repeated errors in delivering policy like Police Scotland, OFBA and Named Person. All fair ideas. All poorly delivered.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
43 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

It doesn't in as far as the Government's position. It's got devolution in a manner which is designed to ensure each of it's communities is represented and to enshrine free trade and movement with it's neighbour. 

 

I think this could collapse the Government in the new year and usher in the opposition - which according to Starmer on Radio 4 this morning has said single market and customs union is still on the table.

 

Don't forget that Corbyn is blatantly in favour of Brexit. He and Labour are just playing both sides at the moment. They'd be just as hopeless at working this out.

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43 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

It doesn't in as far as the Government's position. It's got devolution in a manner which is designed to ensure each of it's communities is represented and to enshrine free trade and movement with it's neighbour. 

 

I think this could collapse the Government in the new year and usher in the opposition - which according to Starmer on Radio 4 this morning has said single market and customs union is still on the table.

 

I guess I was nit-picking, but point remains that the devolution settlements in Scotland, Wales and NI are all different, therefore the DUP's position of pan-Britain harmonisation isn't across the board.

 

Starmer is correct to offer CU & SM.  Lots of Leave propaganda said leaving wouldn't mean leaving the SM or CU.  This whole charade is farcical.

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41 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I agree. As someone to the left I think there's a big issue of government by protest and difference in Scotland. It's existed since 1999 but since 2007 has become much more prevalent. The conservatism and reluctance to change in Scotland in terms of democratic institutions and transparency is a major issue. Local government, service provision, the state's role all need discussed. Otherwise we get repeated errors in delivering policy like Police Scotland, OFBA and Named Person. All fair ideas. All poorly delivered.

 

That's the SNP Governments fault, nothing to do with independence.  

 

Again, not all people wanting independence would want an SNP government!

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19 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Correct. Unfortunately, may sold out to the religious extremists. Hopefully there will be united Ireland, under the Irish flag, soon. 

 

Stupid comment. Croatia ( in the EU ) and Bosnia ( not in EU ) have a similar border situation to that which is facing the North and South of Ireland. There are a number of crossing points where sometimes they are manned by customs but many times not. Similarly there are forms to be filled out for goods entering the EU but who is checking them ?

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Just now, Boris said:

 

That's the SNP Governments fault, nothing to do with independence.  

 

Again, not all people wanting independence would want an SNP government!

This is a a point that's rarely made considering how important it is, some seem to think Sturgeon would be crowned queen and the SNP would rule forever. 

 

While I support the principle of Scottish independence, I have a big problem with how authoritarian they are. Things like minimum unit pricing bother me, a government should be there to help and represent me, not herd and shape me.

 

If they still existed I very much doubt the SNP would get my vote post independence 

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The Real Maroonblood
2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

This is a a point that's rarely made considering how important it is, some seem to think Sturgeon would be crowned queen and the SNP would rule forever. 

 

While I support the principle of Scottish independence, I have a big problem with how authoritarian they are. Things like minimum unit pricing bother me, a government should be there to help and represent me, not herd and shape me.

 

If they still existed I very much doubt the SNP would get my vote post independence 

That's an excellent post. 

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David Davis admits that the Government has not made any impact assessments of the effects of Brexit.

 

I repeat.

 

THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT MADE ANY IMPACT ASSESSMENTS ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF BREXIT.

 

Staggering.

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
49 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

 

Stupid comment. Croatia ( in the EU ) and Bosnia ( not in EU ) have a similar border situation to that which is facing the North and South of Ireland. There are a number of crossing points where sometimes they are manned by customs but many times not. Similarly there are forms to be filled out for goods entering the EU but who is checking them ?

Like I say, hopefully there will be a united Ireland soon. 

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49 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

That's an excellent post. 

 

Thank you mate, normal service will be resumed shortly though I assure you

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49 minutes ago, Cade said:

David Davis admits that the Government has not made any impact assessments of the effects of Brexit.

 

I repeat.

 

THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT MADE ANY IMPACT ASSESSMENTS ON THE ECONOMIC IMPACT OF BREXIT.

 

Staggering.

Frightening, if nothing else.

 

Quote

Davis says ministers took decision to leave customs unions without analysis of economic impact

Benn asks a final question.

Q: Did the government undertake an assessment of leaving the customs union before the cabinet took that decision?

Not a quantitative one, no, says Davis.

Q: Isn’t that extraordinary?

No, says Davis. He says the range of different outcomes it too wide. Some free trade agreements have been very effective, and others haven’t. Ministers had to take a judgment. That is what thy did, he says.

  • Davis says cabinet took decision to leave the customs unions without an analysis of the economic impact.

 

How exactly did they decide? A flip of a coin? Staggeringly irresponsible. He should be sacked.

 

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2 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Yes, great TV, too. 

 

Not so good for those killed, bereaved or left with life changing injuries though. Do you remember the troubles? I'm 50 and have a friend of 30 years+ I speak to weekly who lives in Belfast.  Peace in Northern Ireland was achieved with hard work, compromise  and delicate negotiation.

 

The troubles were absolutely brutal and an enforced United Ireland would spark their resumption and no mistake.

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Space Mackerel
2 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I agree. As someone to the left I think there's a big issue of government by protest and difference in Scotland. It's existed since 1999 but since 2007 has become much more prevalent. The conservatism and reluctance to change in Scotland in terms of democratic institutions and transparency is a major issue. Local government, service provision, the state's role all need discussed. Otherwise we get repeated errors in delivering policy like Police Scotland, OFBA and Named Person. All fair ideas. All poorly delivered.

 

I do love your mantra of reiterating everything like the Daily Record or Reporting Scotland. It’s very amusing

Heres a thread on Twitter from the General Secretary Police Scotland. Maybe it might put to bed you and the rest of the unfounded attacks about the Polis here :)

 

 

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So, after months of Parliament demanding to see the impact assessments that were rumored to exist, and the Government refusing to release them, even going to court to secure the release of them, it turns out that they never existed in the first place.

 

So, why didn't the Government just admit at the very start that it hadn't done any impact assessments? WHY go through multiple Parliamentary motions and court cases?

 

DD has been misleading Parliament (LYING) from the start.

 

 

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Arse 'Friends' Dyslexic?

Presented with an open goal, I fully expect Corbyn to grill May about Betty from Doncaster's winter heating allowance...

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Benn: So, just to be clear, has the government undertaken any impact assessments on the implications of leaving the EU for different sectors [of the economy]

Davis: Not in sectors. The Treasury, of course, has got an OBR forecast which has an implication, although even that is pretty crude ... There is no systematic impact assessment.

Benn: So the answer to the question is no. So the government hasn’t undertaken any impact assessments of implications of leaving the EU for different sectors of the British economy.

Davis: No.

Benn: So there isn’t one, for example, on the automatic sector?

Davis: Not that I’m aware of, no.

Benn: Is there one on aerospace?

Davis: Not that I’m aware of.

Benn: One on financial services?

Davis: I think the answer is going to be no to all of them.

 

:facepalm::vrface::hartley:

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2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

That's the SNP Governments fault, nothing to do with independence.  

 

Again, not all people wanting independence would want an SNP government!

I'm actually not conflating the two but criticising all Holyrood politicians - all those issues were supported across party divides 

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3 hours ago, Smithee said:

This is a a point that's rarely made considering how important it is, some seem to think Sturgeon would be crowned queen and the SNP would rule forever. 

 

While I support the principle of Scottish independence, I have a big problem with how authoritarian they are. Things like minimum unit pricing bother me, a government should be there to help and represent me, not herd and shape me.

 

If they still existed I very much doubt the SNP would get my vote post independence 

 

Dont think anyone thinks the snp would rule for ever. What most people think is than snp will be in power in the short to medium term after independence vote and most certainly dealing with the transition. 

 

I agree with the view that Scotland wouldn’t become some socialist utopia. Scotland is pretty conservative in a lot of its thinking and approach. Whilst economically it would more likely have to go the way of low tax economy for a variety of reasons.

 

A bit like brexit the vision sold, by many, won’t be close to reality. 

 

On Scotland’s independence, I voted no last time in the referendum. However, if it was run again and uk was continuing to muck up brexit I would plump for Indy and Europe to be honest on the basis I think it would be brighter economic future.

 

I still don’t think we will see a brexit, IMO something will happen we will see a change govt possibly which halts it for a while. Probably see a rerun of a vote again, under the guise of clarity of deal or similar.

 

i do wish politicians would stop ducking referendums and concentrating on running the country!

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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