Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Captain Sausage said:

This attitude sums up everything wrong with British politics. People so entrenched in their views that they refuse to look at things with any modicum of impartiality. 
 

Johnson is a *****. I doubt you’ll find many people on here who would disagree. 
 

But talk of ‘winning’ - it should be about what is best for the country? Clearly the best thing for the country is to give the people the opportunity to unlock this omnishambles of a parliament. 
 

Corbyn is showing his true colours. Couldn’t give a **** about normal people, just wants power. 

 

You don't think it would be better to properly debate the Withdrawal Deal? Which could be passed. Which means we leave the EU. 

 

I thought this was about leaving the EU. 

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

 

Corbyn is showing his true colours. Couldn’t give a **** about normal people, just wants power. 

 

So what does Boris want? 

 

You like him do you? You think he has higher principles?

 

You maybe like Tory Governments. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Captain Sausage]

18 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So what does Boris want? 

 

You like him do you? You think he has higher principles?

 

You maybe like Tory Governments. 

wtf? I’ve expressed, consistently and recently on this thread, what I think about Boris Johnson. 
 

And you’re just furthering my point - it’s not football. Stop being so ****ing partisan and take the red blinkers off. Corbyn has consistently stood in the House of Commons deriding the Tories for not giving him an election. Now he’s offered one and he shits it. Embarrassing.

 

As for Brexit, it can get ****ed. It’s a total joke that makes this country significantly worse off - I want the opportunity to vote to stop Brexit, either through the greens or the Lib Dem’s probably, but I’d need to see what their policies are when they’re released for an election. 
 

The whole single party voting irrespective  of policy or circumstance is an absolute affront to democracy and highlights the lowest common denominator within our society. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

32 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's about winning. Why should Labour care. They have been playing politics with Brexit for 2 years. Why change.

 

It's a bigger question why Boris Johnson isn't willing to debate his Withdrawal Deal. He has a Deal they did well to get that allows Britain to leave the EU. He is playing politics too. 

 

Wasn't it something to do with the possibility of amendments being added, such as a customs union, second referendum etc etc, if that were the case then little wonder the government didn't want the withdrawal deal brought back for it's second reading, because by the time this amendment and that amendment could have been added, the final withdrawal deal could look very different from the deal agreed with the EU.

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Wasn't it something to do with the possibility of amendments being added, such as a customs union, second referendum etc etc, if that were the case then little wonder the government didn't want the withdrawal deal brought back for it's second reading, because by the time this amendment and that amendment could have been added, the final withdrawal deal could look very different from the deal agreed with the EU.

 

Boris seems to be relying on getting a majority at an election to pass his Deal. His team think his message about trying to deliver Brexit but being stopped by everyone else will be a strong vote winner. 

 

Fine if that happens. 

 

But high risk too. For example polls say people would prefer a second Referendum to an election. The Labour election campaign is strong. The Brexit Party is still a force and have by far the best communicator as leader. And other things can happen too in the 5 weeks of election campaign. A flu outbreak would focus on NHS favouring Labour. The Grenfell fire report tomorrow focuses on poverty and disadvantage potentially helping Labour. Polls do not capture the full picture. 

 

The election result is not a formality. 

[Mikey1874]

Amendments can also be added to the Election Bill. One possible amendment being talked about that would mean a March or May election would be adding 16/17 year olds to voting.

 

Would take several months to set that up. 

21 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Wasn't it something to do with the possibility of amendments being added, such as a customs union, second referendum etc etc, if that were the case then little wonder the government didn't want the withdrawal deal brought back for it's second reading, because by the time this amendment and that amendment could have been added, the final withdrawal deal could look very different from the deal agreed with the EU.

 

Another amendment could be that the Withdrawal Deal is debated first albeit SNP and Lib Dems are against this. 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

 

Its amazing how our political press has the pressure on anyone but the prime minister who's lost an unprecedented amount of votes, been forced by the courts to do parliament's bidding against his "rather die in a ditch" will and is floundering about like a floppy haired clueless tit with no control over his party.

 

Big pressure on the SNP and libs though!

 

The snp will romp Scotland, the libdems have nothing to lose, all the pressure is on the tories as they try to squirm out of their own government.

[Unknown user]

Just now, Barack said:

It's hyperbole for clicks & likes. Nothing more.

 

 

 

Exactly, this is where we are now, they're a disgrace, that Kuessenberg lassie especially is an utter joke.

[Mikey1874]

Probably the right place for today's research story

 

 

[Unknown user]

20 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Probably the right place for today's research story

 

 

 

That seems a bit obvious, people who love themselves are happy. 

 

In other news, self loathing people arent that happy at all.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

35 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Boris seems to be relying on getting a majority at an election to pass his Deal. His team think his message about trying to deliver Brexit but being stopped by everyone else will be a strong vote winner. 

 

Fine if that happens. 

 

But high risk too. For example polls say people would prefer a second Referendum to an election. The Labour election campaign is strong. The Brexit Party is still a force and have by far the best communicator as leader. And other things can happen too in the 5 weeks of election campaign. A flu outbreak would focus on NHS favouring Labour. The Grenfell fire report tomorrow focuses on poverty and disadvantage potentially helping Labour. Polls do not capture the full picture. 

 

The election result is not a formality. 

 

Absolutely high risk, as it is with all the parties, except the SNP who will no matter what the result will still be the largest party in Scotland, everywhere else outwith Scotland is up for grabs.

 

[Victorian]

SNP and LD have bounced LAB into it.   Amendments could still kybosh it though.    CON were said to be prepared to pull the bill if certain amendments were carried.     It might be more cat & mouse stuff.

[dobmisterdobster]

The SNP want to collect their 50 MPs before the Alex Salmond case. Don't blame them.

[doctor jambo]

I think the Tories will return a majority government in the election.

People just want this done now.

Labour are in for an utter mauling

[Martin_T]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I think the Tories will return a majority government in the election.

People just want this done now.

Labour are in for an utter mauling

 

That was what everyone thought in 2017, however it didn't work out that way.

 

If Labour were to suddenly ditch Corbyn and announce Keir Starmer as leader, extremely unlikely though that is, it could make it very interesting indeed.

 

Also there is no such thing as 'done' in the Brexit context, there would be several more years, if not decades of negotiations to be had.

[Mikey1874]

BBC straight away trying to find Labour MPs who don't agree with having an election. 

[Martin_T]

Just now, Barack said:

The negotiations would just be done in private as they have for decades, and announced as & when they're deemed important.

 

There's not going to be daily social media outrage, on every facet of trade negotiations. People are sick hearing about Brexit, no matter which side you fall on. Sick of MP's posturing & inactivity. A GE, and hopefully a result by January 31st, will be in most people's daily lives...the "end."

 

I fully agree people are sick of hearing about it, but given the profound impact it will have on our society, it will continue to be headline news for years to come. A defacto 'leave' date will do nothing to change that. Especially when the practical impact becomes apparent, rising food prices etc.

 

The best way to make Brexit go away is to maintain the status quo which avoids the unnecessary upheaval.

[Brighton Jambo]

Get ready for another UK general election in the week of 9 December. Here's an overview of the main campaign messages to expect:

🗽Conservatives: Get Brexit done.
🐥 Lib Dems: Revoke Article 50.
⚠️ SNP: Protect Scotland’s interests.
➡️ Brexit Party: Tell them again.
🇻🇪 Labour: We support Brexit in principle and we believe that the EU is a capitalist empire, although we would renegotiate the Brexit deal so that the UK remains closely aligned to those regulations that we don’t like but then we’ll also possibly offer another referendum with options that we haven’t yet decided and then we may campaign against the deal that we just achieved so that we could then stay in the EU but then we would need the EU to reform. Our position couldn’t be clearer.

I wonder why Labour were so reluctant to have this election. 🤔

[Cade]

.........and what happens when this GE returns another hung parliament or a fragile coalition/minority government?

 

 

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Get ready for another UK general election in the week of 9 December. Here's an overview of the main campaign messages to expect:

🗽Conservatives: Get Brexit done.
🐥 Lib Dems: Revoke Article 50.
⚠️ SNP: Protect Scotland’s interests.
➡️ Brexit Party: Tell them again.
🇻🇪 Labour: We support Brexit in principle and we believe that the EU is a capitalist empire, although we would renegotiate the Brexit deal so that the UK remains closely aligned to those regulations that we don’t like but then we’ll also possibly offer another referendum with options that we haven’t yet decided and then we may campaign against the deal that we just achieved so that we could then stay in the EU but then we would need the EU to reform. Our position couldn’t be clearer.

I wonder why Labour were so reluctant to have this election. 🤔

 

Parties campaign on a range of issues in a General Election. 

 

You have a point on the Brexit positions. But actually Labour's position could be popular. Polls say the public is more in favour of a 2nd Referendum than a General Election.

[Boris]

I actually think Corbyn is trying to be pragmatic in respect of Brexit.  It's just the delivery of the message that is getting somewhat lost.  Not helped by those in the party who don't like him, and a hostile media, whipped up by jingoistic fervour.

 

So, let us see what happens in December!

 

 

[Mikey1874]

The major factor here is that Brexit has not been delivered.

 

Which despite the polls makes the Conservatives vulnerable. We have the straight 'how would you vote' polls. But the polls giving people different scenarios all gave a hung Parliament for every scenario other than Brexit being delivered which gave a clear Conservative majority. 

[doctor jambo]

36 minutes ago, Cade said:

.........and what happens when this GE returns another hung parliament or a fragile coalition/minority government?

 

 

The Queen steps in, fires everyone in parliament, restores her own demagogue monarchy and puts soldiers on the streets?

 

Or we end up like Italy or Greece where our parliament becomes beholden to the iron will of the EU while we thrash around in circles for the indefinite future

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

Are the Brexit party still going to stand in the election? I still think there is still quite a large section of Tory voters who wanted a no deal, clean break in their eyes, Brexit. It won't happen now but still a few unhappy hard brexiteers might vote for them as might a few Labour voters in the north and midlands of England. 

It going to be some roller coaster election with odd results all over the UK. 

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Are the Brexit party still going to stand in the election? I still think there is still quite a large section of Tory voters who wanted a no deal, clean break in their eyes, Brexit. It won't happen now but still a few unhappy hard brexiteers might vote for them as might a few Labour voters in the north and midlands of England. 

It going to be some roller coaster election with odd results all over the UK. 

 

Brexit Party could push the Conservatives to support No Deal.

 

Really the May / Johnson deal is still well away from the 'pure Brexit' many seem to favour. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Brexit Party could push the Conservatives to support No Deal.

 

Really the May / Johnson deal is still well away from the 'pure Brexit' many seem to favour. 

There is so much polarisation so compromise seems off the agenda for many when that is the only sensible thing around now! 

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Brexit Party could push the Conservatives to support No Deal.

 

Really the May / Johnson deal is still well away from the 'pure Brexit' many seem to favour. 

As a remainer, though a pragmatic one the Bojo deal will probably need to be swallowed- nothing else has a hope in hell of getting anywhere

[frankblack]

42 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The major factor here is that Brexit has not been delivered.

 

Which despite the polls makes the Conservatives vulnerable. We have the straight 'how would you vote' polls. But the polls giving people different scenarios all gave a hung Parliament for every scenario other than Brexit being delivered which gave a clear Conservative majority. 

 

It could alternatively be seen as a chance for leave voters to take their wrath out on the MPs who blocked Brexit.

[dobmisterdobster]

The Tories will support Boris' deal with No Deal as a backup.

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It could alternatively be seen as a chance for leave voters to take their wrath out on the MPs who blocked Brexit.

How ? Most of the northern regions which generally voted leave have had their mps respect that , even if the said mps don’t personally agreee with Breshit 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

I actually think Corbyn is trying to be pragmatic in respect of Brexit.  It's just the delivery of the message that is getting somewhat lost.  Not helped by those in the party who don't like him, and a hostile media, whipped up by jingoistic fervour.

 

So, let us see what happens in December!

 

 

Yes he has been but The all things to all people Axism doesn’t always work 

[Boris]

24 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes he has been but The all things to all people Axism doesn’t always work 

 

No, it doesn't.  You're quite right.

 

But it may resonate with some.

[scott herbertson]

5 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

A name used by Ptolemy to describe ireland (Great Britain being the bigger of the main british isles, ireland the smaller) and by the French to describe Brittany.

 

 

If it's already taken then maybe "Wee Britain" or "Big England" (to annoy the welsh and Norn Irish)

[Mikey1874]

In the arcane procedures of Parliament they have to first agree how they are going to do this Election Bill (legislation). 

 

Some doubt whether it will go ahead. Government wants it 1. Done today 2. No backbench / Opposition amendments. 

 

Starting to vote now. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Cade]

Important vote coming up.

 

Hopefully Stella's amended motion passes.

[Mikey1874]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

Important vote coming up.

 

Hopefully Stella's amended motion passes.

 

Passes 

 

So Election Bill goes ahead now. Initial chat for a few hours, amendments later this afternoon. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Cade]

[Mikey1874]

Boris missed the news earlier. 

[Mikey1874]

Election campaigns kicking off.

[Mikey1874]

Amendment tabled to allow 16/17 year olds to vote. (Bringing UK in line with Scotland). Jeremy Corbyn also saying want EU nationals to be able to vote. 

 

Not entirely sure what process is for agreeing which amendments are voted on. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Cade]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Amendment tabled to allow 16/17 year olds to vote. (Bringing UK in line with Scotland). Jeremy Corbyn also saying want EU nationals to be able to vote. 

 

Not entirely sure what process is for agreeing which amendments are voted on. 

Speaker chooses

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Cade said:

Speaker chooses

 

Cheers

 

Looking into it further the Committee stage process is clerks decide if amendments are 'in scope' ie relevant then goes to Speaker. 

 

Various speculation going on including 1. that 16/17 and EU amendment will NOT go ahead 2. But if they do Government will withdraw bill. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Don Dan]

December Election now in doubt as selected amendments may derail it (whatever these amendments will eventually be)

[Cade]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

December Election now in doubt as selected amendments may derail it (whatever these amendments will eventually be)

Yes, if Boris doesn't like the amendments made, he'll simply pull the entire bill.

 

 

[gjcc]

10 minutes ago, Cade said:

Yes, if Boris doesn't like the amendments made, he'll simply pull the entire bill.

 

 

 
Yep. More taking his ball home because everyone else wants to play 5’s but he wants to play shapes. 

[gjcc]

Not wanting to put the Bill to the public vote because they’ll reject it. Ummm who do these Knuts work for again?  

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, gjcc said:

 
Yep. More taking his ball home because everyone else wants to play 5’s but he wants to play shapes. 

[Mikey1874]

Jo Swinson "will always support 16 and 17 year olds voting".

 

Check later how she votes. 

[Cade]

#10 confirms that it'll pull an "IT'S MY BALL" and pull the early election bill if either amendment for EU citizens or younger people to get the vote passes.

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

#10 confirms that it'll pull an "IT'S MY BALL" and pull the early election bill if either amendment for EU citizens or younger people to get the vote passes.

If that happens, opposition should go for a vote of no confidence, form an interim govt, then introduce this bill again with all its amendments and pass it.

 

Or legislate for another referendum first. They have the ability to scupper Johnson if they see fit. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Boris