pablo Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 The fate of the ‘Anywhere’ people They have found a new way to reject their national identity Professor Robert Tombs is a Fellow of St John’s College, Cambridge, and the author of The English and Their History June 23, 2021 The Brexit strain in our political bloodstream has mutated almost beyond recognition. It seems strange now that, for years, it dominated everything. It was going to destroy the economy, create mass unemployment, explode the Union, smash the constitution and remake the political system. But its latest variants are not very contagious and cause little harm to the body politic. The National Farmers’ Union tries to revive Project Fear with stories of vast herds of Australian cattle, while Oxford dons insist that Rhodes Must Fall — for the Empire, so some of them insist, is the key to Brexit. One of their most vocal members, indeed, co-authored a book explaining that Brexit was due to “a nostalgia for a time when life was easier, and Britain could simply get rich by killing people of colour and stealing their stuff”. So here is the anti-Brexit cause boiled down to its primitive components: vested interest, and visceral alienation. Meanwhile, in the real world, the Brexit battle has quickly receded into memory. Was it really only five years ago? We are already commemorating the date: “Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars / And say ‘These wounds I had on Brexit day’.” In 2016, leaving the EU seemed a British eccentricity, whether to be praised or blamed. On one hand, it was the product of domestic politics: David Cameron’s miscalculated effort to silence the Tory Eurosceptics. On the other, it was the long-term result of a peculiar national history: having suffered less than elsewhere from the wars, revolutions and foreign occupations of the 20th century, the British were far less attached to the “vision” of a United Europe, and hence far less patient with its failings. But five years on, Brexit seems to be one symptom of broader changes in Europe and the world. At a political level, it was a popular reaction not only against globalisation, but against the political manifestation of globalisation, in which, for a generation, national governments had ceded increasing powers to international bodies. Peter Mair, in his already classic work Ruling the Void: The Hollowing of Western Democracy, called it the “withdrawal of the elites” into supranational institutions, in which the “horizontal” approval of other politicians outweighed the “vertical” support of the electorate. This was the catalyst for “taking back control”. In many, if not all, democratic countries, there have been manifestations of this desire, invariably messy and disruptive. Brexit turned out to be a relatively quick and clean solution, compared, at least, with the turmoil in the United States or the political paralysis in France. SUGGESTED READING Why Remain lost BY AYAAN HIRSI ALI At the international level, the brief period of Western (above all American) hegemony after the fall of the Soviet Union was sharply ended by the failures in the Middle East, Afghanistan and Libya. This was underlined by the massive presence of China, and more particularly by the sudden collapse of optimistic expectations that China could be integrated into an international order created and still led by the West. For critics of Brexit, leaving the EU inevitably weakens Britain and undermines Western solidarity at the worst moment. At best, they argue, we shall be isolated, and at the mercy of great power blocs, whereas European membership gave us protection and a voice within a mighty organisation that could maintain itself against the United States and China. We shall see. But at the moment, things look different. The EU is embarrassingly marginal in world politics. Most of its members do not want, and are not powerful enough, to play “the great game”, and so the EU itself is only a simulacrum of the Great Power. It has a flag, but not an army; and indeed, not a policy. Its dominant member, Germany, is increasingly dependent on China for its exports, and on Russia for its energy. The EU cannot be relied on to play the smallest role in areas of danger: the Middle East, the Pacific or Africa. France’s failing attempt to hold back Islamist onslaught in central Africa depends on a few RAF helicopters. Deterring Russian adventures in the Baltic depends on a handful of British units in their traditional “tripwire” role. Should we not be asking ourselves why we are doing this, for an EU that is feckless and hostile, and whose main endeavour seems to be causing trouble in Northern Ireland? And then there was the pandemic, a sudden materialisation of the dangers of the 21st century: the perils of globalisation; the ruthless irresponsibility of China; the absence of effective global organisations; the complacency of the West … But nowhere so far have the political consequences been more severe than in the EU. It would be tedious and unnecessary to rehearse its failings. Suffice it to say that it proved worse than irrelevant in the sort of situation that its defenders commonly used to justify it: a crisis that “crosses frontiers”. In this case, the EU’s member states had to restore frontiers and rely on themselves for vaccines. The glorious vision of a “sovereign Europe” has faded. Even Emmanuel Macron, the only remaining federalist champion of substance, relies on various permutations of Project Fear. Like the old Austro-Hungarian empire, the EU continues because it cannot be either reformed or replaced. But in neither case did that prevent its members from quarrelling. SUGGESTED READING Did we really 'take back control'? BY PHILIP CUNLIFFE What has become of the 48.1% of the British electorate — 16 million people — who voted in 2016 to Remain? The largest group (43% of them), according to Lord Ashcroft’s exit poll on 23 June, feared the economic consequences of leaving, and another 20% feared national isolation. Only 9% felt strong attachment to the European vision. As the fears of post-Brexit disaster have evaporated, and the EU has shown itself increasingly accident-prone and intransigent, support for the EU logically declines, as recent polls suggest. Moreover, the Remain vote is dispersed among several parties. Only one of these remains politically formidable and openly “Rejoin”: the Scottish National Party. That it should cling to the EU is understandable: only EU membership (whatever the cost) makes independence feasible. But Europhilia is a waning asset. Every blunder or failing in Brussels must make the SNP’s strategy less attractive to rational voters. Its failure to win even 50% of voters in the recent Scottish elections is eloquent. The same logic applies to Northern Ireland: unity with the South might have seemed attractive to middle-of-the-road voters as long as Britain and Ireland were both EU members. However justifiably annoyed Northern voters might be with both London and Brussels, for Northern Ireland to break fully from its main economic partner would be far worse. If the Protocol is either made to work or — which seems increasingly likely — junked, then unification will more than ever seem something that many Irish people on both sides of the border aspire to, as long as it is not actually imminent. So that leaves the rather small number of British voters — and the even smaller number of English voters — who remain unreservedly attached to, or at least nostalgic about, the EU. Can anyone imagine a serious politician sounding a clarion call for Britain to return to the fold? The most they seem to be aiming for is to keep the maximum degree of linkage. Keeping Australian beef out, while allowing Irish beef in. Trying to retain regulatory alignment, presumably so as to maintain Britain as a lucrative market for EU goods (hence our huge trade deficit) while hampering trade with other continents. SUGGESTED READING Why Remain lost BY FINTAN O'TOOLE Other than that, we have the Omega Variant of Brexit — the culture wars. How many of the 150 or so Oxford dons who are boycotting Oriel College because of its failure to remove the statue of Cecil Rhodes do you think voted “Leave”? I suppose the culture wars could be dismissed as froth, as perhaps in a few years they will be: “Because,” as Burke wrote, “half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink… pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field.” Nevertheless, as one who belongs to the Acrididea order myself, I do find it interesting. George Orwell observed 80 years ago that “England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality” — though today I think he might have to add America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. The “decolonisation” movement in all its ramifications seems to be a rejection of national identity, or at least of those identities which are stigmatised as pillars of an oppressive world system — a view that manages to leave genuine oppressors in the clear. Orwell went on to criticise the “negative, querulous attitude… the irresponsible carping of people who have never been and never expect to be in a position of power”. Except that now, they have considerable power within our cultural institutions. Is this the fate of the Anywhere people? Aspiring to be citizens of the world, but discontented wherever they live? Supporting the EU. Supporting “decolonisation”. La lutte continue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Somehow the ONS underestimated the number of EU nationals resident in the UK by 40% 😂. Fantastic that so many have applied for settled status and have faith in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said: Somehow the ONS underestimated the number of EU nationals resident in the UK by 40% 😂. Fantastic that so many have applied for settled status and have faith in the UK. I'm just surprised it's as low as 40%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT1959 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 8 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: We've the bairns singing a North Korean type song though "One Britain, One Nation" You can't put a price on that! Well, not all the bairns as the majority of Scots kids are on holiday on 25 June. This inclusive One Britain day is off to a flyer. Probably never even in the equation. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 8 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: We've the bairns singing a North Korean type song though "One Britain, One Nation" You can't put a price on that! Imagine….imagine this song was about Scotland….I’d have loved to see the reactions On brexit though I think folks need to stop going on. The vote was leave and come hell or high water we need to try make it work. Like everything else it’ll settle down and who knows over time. (not aimed at you btw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, JT1959 said: Well, not all the bairns as the majority of Scots kids are on holiday on 25 June. This inclusive One Britain day is off to a flyer. Probably never even in the equation. 🙂 Their version of 'Britain' doesn't include Scotland or Northern Ireland mate. It stops at Berwick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 7 hours ago, pablo said: Professor Robert Tombs is a Fellow of St John’s College, Cambridge, and the author of The English and Their History June 23, 2021 Well-know Brexit fanboy says "Britain Great Nation One". So what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 O2 announce reintroduction of roaming charges from 25th Aug for Britons travelling to the EU. Sunlit. Uplands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: Their version of 'Britain' doesn't include Scotland or Northern Ireland mate. It stops at Berwick. So that's them on the same page as Scottish and Irish nationalists then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Ulysses said: So that's them on the same page as Scottish and Irish nationalists then. They should have a referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: They should have a referendum. Sainsbury's Newry yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Sainsbury's Newry yesterday. All going according to plan. Given NI is technically in the EU do O2 customers have to pay roaming charges in Belfast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: All going according to plan. Given NI is technically in the EU do O2 customers have to pay roaming charges in Belfast? Mobile roaming isn't covered by the Protocol. As it happens, there aren't any roaming charges at present, but that could change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 56 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said: They should have a referendum. John Bercow should be Labour leader. Two minutes in the Labour Party and “gets it”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Ulysses said: Well-know Brexit fanboy says "Britain Great Nation One". So what? What's wrong with hearing the views and opinions from either side? As an expert on 19th Century French history and a Cambridge professor, he hardly fits the bill of a typical Little Englander 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, pablo said: What's wrong with hearing the views and opinions from either side? As an expert on 19th Century French history and a Cambridge professor, he hardly fits the bill of a typical Little Englander 🙂 I’ve never heard of the guy and the article is ok. As you get into it though it does become clear where he’s coming from. That’s fair enough though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 39 minutes ago, pablo said: What's wrong with hearing the views and opinions from either side? As an expert on 19th Century French history and a Cambridge professor, he hardly fits the bill of a typical Little Englander 🙂 I read the article from start to finish - so that's me after hearing the views and opinions from that side. But now that I've read it I'm in a position to say that views and opinions is all they are, and the fact that the poor gom has letters after his name clearly hasn't helped his research and analysis skills on matters where his personal passions get in the way. 36 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: I’ve never heard of the guy and the article is ok. As you get into it though it does become clear where he’s coming from. That’s fair enough though. WADR, the article is poorly thought out waffle. His views on Northern Ireland in the piece are enough to condemn it to the category of "only useful if printed on soft paper". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 8 hours ago, Ulysses said: Mobile roaming isn't covered by the Protocol. As it happens, there aren't any roaming charges at present, but that could change. I wasn't being entirely serious. Honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 12 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: O2 announce reintroduction of roaming charges from 25th Aug for Britons travelling to the EU. Sunlit. Uplands. It'll be interesting to see what happens next. Roaming charges are after the first 20-25gig of usage as i understand it. In the last decade the support for data/billing for foreign sim cards has been improved and costs reduced significantly to operators. Since Telefonica has sold o2 to Liberty Global I look at this as a case of Liberty looking to introduce an additional revenue stream although they are being a bit cute in their approach by giving customers an allowance. The change though means binge watching Netflix, watching iPlayer/SkyGo etc on holiday is not really an option for o2 customers. Hopefully operators maintain their reciprocal roaming deals as removing them is lose/lose for customers whether UK or European based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: I wasn't being entirely serious. Honest. There's a lot of people here who assume mobile roaming is covered by the Protocol, so it comes as a surprise to them to find out that it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 23/06/2021 at 10:15, The Mighty Thor said: Happy 5th anniversary fellow Remainers/Brexiteers To celebrate.......listening to LBC and they're discussing (and have just played) a song that the Department of Education want all 'British' school children to sing on something called 'Freedom Day' There's genuinely not enough of these to go round I'm choking to fire in a Godwin's Law/Hitler youth analogy here. Setting aside the fact that the origin of this song appears perfectly innocent and well-intended, the fact that the U.K. government now seeks to capitalise on it for political ends is deplorable. Freedom from what, one asks? The answer of course is Freedom from the big bad EU. More Orwellian p**h from the Ministry of Truth, “Four legs (the U.K.) good, two legs (the EU) bad”. Unfortunately, this pathetic attempt at indoctrination is doomed to failure when those young kids look at developing their education in later years and are old enough to understand what Brexit has robbed them of. For example……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT1959 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 EE joining O2 in increasing charges for roaming. Never saw that coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, JT1959 said: EE joining O2 in increasing charges for roaming. Never saw that coming. slowly at first, then all at once. The mobile phone companies can sniff a money making opportunity. I'm glad we hold all the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 16 minutes ago, JT1959 said: EE joining O2 in increasing charges for roaming. Never saw that coming. None of that disgustingly repressive and authoritarian EU legislation to hold them back now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 4 hours ago, JT1959 said: EE joining O2 in increasing charges for roaming. Never saw that coming. This will have a massive impact on everyone not going on holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 9 hours ago, JT1959 said: EE joining O2 in increasing charges for roaming. Never saw that coming. But not when travelling in Ireland, which is interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 The price of building materials is absolutely shocking. Timber especially. Companies are now given quotas per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Just saw the One Britain One Nation song. Cringe levels are off the chart with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 A group of applicants including the DUP and Kate Hoey have lost their legal challenge to have the Northern Ireland Protocol ruled illegal. Interestingly, the judge ruled that the parts of the 1800 Acts of Union had been repealed by the Protocol, not breached by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Bit of a link in the sausage war! Brexit: 'Sausage war' ceasefire as UK and EU agree three-month extension to grace period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 EU gives the UK another 3 months to implement the legally binding international treaty. What odds am I given that the UK will do shite-all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 'One Britain, Great nation' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said: 'One Britain, Great nation' I don’t know what to think about this government anymore. They’re all off their head and nobody gives a monkeys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 Haribo is running out because there's not enough lorry drivers to deliver it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartleyLegend3 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 15 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: 'One Britain, Great nation' A buffoon though he may be, he knows how to keep the hard of thinking in England onside. He always rides on the nationalist train. A real statesman would be promoting the good of sport bringing nations together for the collective good of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartleyLegend3 Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said: Aye but vaccines wibble, flags wobble, borders wibble, brown faces wibble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartleyLegend3 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartleyLegend3 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartleyLegend3 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) On 03/07/2021 at 18:06, HartleyLegend3 said: If ever there was a so called true patriot that is an absolute ××××××× parasite it is that **** Rees-Mogg. Edited July 9, 2021 by DETTY29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: If ever there was a so called true patriot that is an absolute ××××××× parasite it is that **** Rees-Mogg. He’s utter vermin. Im sure he’s trolling this country. Ripping the pish and making fortunes. Look at those 3….what has happened to the UK? The worst part of all is even with this govt and as horrible as they are the SNP can’t make the case and build support. Imagine Scotland being run by those people. We have absolutely no guts at all. Edited July 9, 2021 by jack D and coke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT1959 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) Whilst the Scottish Government have been advising us, correctly, of the dangers of driving your car whilst feeling tired. The UK Government plan to do away with the fixed hours a long haul HGV driver can drive to make up for the Brexit UK shortfall in drivers. Keep checking your mirrors when on a motorway. Edited July 11, 2021 by JT1959 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 43 minutes ago, JT1959 said: Whilst the Scottish Government have been advising us, correctly, of the dangers of driving your car whilst feeling tired. The UK Government plan to do away with the fixed hours a long haul HGV driver can drive to make up for the Brexit UK shortfall in drivers. Keep checking your mirrors when on a motorway. Just as I was chomping my breakfast I had in mind that something along those lines would be a cheap fix. Well...cheap in monetary terms, initially. Not so cheap for any families devastated by lives being lost due to accidents caused by over-tired drivers being forced to run vehicles without enough sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Boof said: Just as I was chomping my breakfast I had in mind that something along those lines would be a cheap fix. Well...cheap in monetary terms, initially. Not so cheap for any families devastated by lives being lost due to accidents caused by over-tired drivers being forced to run vehicles without enough sleep. Now that they've 'taken back control' they can remove H&S legislation and workers rights on a whim to cover for the inevitable consequences of their shit show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Boof said: Just as I was chomping my breakfast I had in mind that something along those lines would be a cheap fix. Well...cheap in monetary terms, initially. Not so cheap for any families devastated by lives being lost due to accidents caused by over-tired drivers being forced to run vehicles without enough sleep. Changes to working conditions was always going to be a post Brexit target the Conservative government. Maybe the EU went a bit far the other way, but the current crew in charge in the UK are not interested in safety over profit, or safety over covering up the flaws in their Brexit plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 2 hours ago, JT1959 said: Whilst the Scottish Government have been advising us, correctly, of the dangers of driving your car whilst feeling tired. The UK Government plan to do away with the fixed hours a long haul HGV driver can drive to make up for the Brexit UK shortfall in drivers. Keep checking your mirrors when on a motorway. It's an extra hour a day for the next four weeks only. It's also a sticking plaster approach which probably won't make much of a difference. The shortage of lorry drivers isn't as a result of Brexit, although in the UK it has been exacerbated by it. There is a shortage of drivers right across Europe right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartleyLegend3 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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