Kezia Dugdale to resign.

[flecktimus]

They should go for devo-max in Scotland. Drive a wedge between Unionists and Nationalist extremes and capture the middle-ground

We already have the nearest thing to Devo Max.

 

Source - Gordon Brown 

[EIEIO]

Dugdale led the Scottish branch of the Labour party like a Hibby, third in a two horse race.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Regal Kingston]

Dugdale led the Scottish branch of the Labour party like a Hibby, third in a two horse race.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Post of the year.

[Roxy Hearts]

We already have the nearest thing to Devo Max.

 

Source - Gordon Brown

Lol

[Gizmo]

 However, I fully expect a Sarwar leadership next. No one else seems willing to step forward. 

He represents the absolute worst of politics. A clueless, conniving, careerist idiot with all the charisma of a tree stump and makes Jim Murphy seem trustworthy. Surprised the stench of his father's corruption didn't finish him but, like an un-flushable turd, he keeps sneaking back. 

 

I think only the mendacious self-serving Jackie Baillie comes close to inflaming me as much as this tosser. 

[JamboX2]

I get your point about fighting on two fronts, but the Tories have essentially cornered the unionist vote in Scotland. There was a time when Labour won in Aberdeen and the like, but it's like they rolled over for the Tories up there. Had they won those seats, based on attracting the unionist and anti SNP vote, Corbyn may well have become PM! I can't help but think that at the Westminster election, Labour in Scotland was more intent on beating the SNP than the bigger picture of stopping the Tories. To me that was insular, small minded and ultimately futile.

Rolled over? Please. People up there are predominantly middle class and centrist. A Tory, Scottish one at that, is more palatable to many than a Corbynite.

 

This is a realignment of politics Boris. Labour fought a fight hoping on 2 extra seats. But ended up hitting a moderate surge late on. Why? In part the Dugdale message, in part Corbyn. The surgeup here wasn't in well to do areas or where Tories did well. But in the central belt where there are younger voters - Glasgow, the west and student areas of Edinburgh.

 

Your post also suggests that the Labour party should bend the knee to the SNP. Under our electoral system it's all or nothing. 51 SNP MPs returned wouldn't have put him into Number 10. Simply that. Want Labour? Vote Labour.

 

Dugdale had her view on the constitution, but at UK level, theparty hierarchy did little to say they agreed or would follow through with it. That's not Dugdale's fault, indeed any new leader will face the same intransigence from the labour leadership, imo.

Indeed. And here in lies the issue - Corbyn has very very little interest in constitutional reform. Like many of his ilk - Foot, Benn etc. It's do away with the Lords. That's the reform agenda.

 

I used to enjoy these debates but as someone south of 30 it depresses me. Scotland and the UK as a whole is going through a nervpus breakdown of competing extremes and resurgent nationalism. None of it will ever address the issues which dominate our lives. No wonder Europe looks on confused and aghast.

 

And from reading Dugdale's press release and some reports/blogs, I think she thinks

likewise.

[JamboX2]

He represents the absolute worst of politics. A clueless, conniving, careerist idiot with all the charisma of a tree stump and makes Jim Murphy seem trustworthy. Surprised the stench of his father's corruption didn't finish him but, like an un-flushable turd, he keeps sneaking back.

 

I think only the mendacious self-serving Jackie Baillie comes close to inflaming me as much as this tosser.

I'd rather neither of them in all honesty. But Leonard (who?) and Rowley (no charisma) give me equally little hope.

[Space Mackerel]

Jambo x2 thinking Dugdale helped reinvent SLAB up North when before the snap GE was announced they were on about 12-14% and heading to oblivion.

 

Corbyn got you up to where you are, copying already in force SNP policies.

[Swanny17]

Driver.

[JamboX2]

Jambo x2 thinking Dugdale helped reinvent SLAB up North when before the snap GE was announced they were on about 12-14% and heading to oblivion.

 

Corbyn got you up to where you are, copying already in force SNP policies.

I think it's a mixture. Think that comes across in what I'm saying Cosmic.

 

Dugdale had put a lot of hard graft into her party. It is to be admired given the circumstances.

 

I'd love to correct you on your last point, but life is just far too short my friend. Suffice to say Corbyn's university policy doesn't come at the expense of further education.

[Boris]

Rolled over? Please. People up there are predominantly middle class and centrist. A Tory, Scottish one at that, is more palatable to many than a Corbynite.

 

This is a realignment of politics Boris. Labour fought a fight hoping on 2 extra seats. But ended up hitting a moderate surge late on. Why? In part the Dugdale message, in part Corbyn. The surgeup here wasn't in well to do areas or where Tories did well. But in the central belt where there are younger voters - Glasgow, the west and student areas of Edinburgh.

 

Your post also suggests that the Labour party should bend the knee to the SNP. Under our electoral system it's all or nothing. 51 SNP MPs returned wouldn't have put him into Number 10. Simply that. Want Labour? Vote Labour.

 

Indeed. And here in lies the issue - Corbyn has very very little interest in constitutional reform. Like many of his ilk - Foot, Benn etc. It's do away with the Lords. That's the reform agenda.

 

I used to enjoy these debates but as someone south of 30 it depresses me. Scotland and the UK as a whole is going through a nervpus breakdown of competing extremes and resurgent nationalism. None of it will ever address the issues which dominate our lives. No wonder Europe looks on confused and aghast.

 

And from reading Dugdale's press release and some reports/blogs, I think she thinks

likewise.

 

The electorate and areas you mention suggest that the Labour "surge" was more Corbyn than Dugdale, imo.  But enough Labour minded people who previously voted SNP sucked into the "no referendum" narrative and voted Labour.

 

Point regards the NE seats, the Tories winning them damaged Labour UK wide more than it does the SNP, imo.

 

Labour's failure to grasp that constitutionally it's not just about Scotland - Dugdale tbf saw this, but Head office isn't interested!

 

Re your last point about competing extremes, I have to disagree.  Corbyn actually set out a vision that did address the "issues that dominate our lives", imo.  Where New Labour were and the Tories are now is much more extreme, but the narrative isn't painted as such.  If you are political, now should be the time to be energised and interested and dare I say hopeful of a better future.  Change is needed, it's the status quo that is wrecking things.

[AlphonseCapone]

Dp.

[AlphonseCapone]

You're just being silly now.

He's not all there tbh. Runs around angry on most threads. Hope he isn't old, can't be good for the ticker.

[doctor jambo]

The electorate and areas you mention suggest that the Labour "surge" was more Corbyn than Dugdale, imo.  But enough Labour minded people who previously voted SNP sucked into the "no referendum" narrative and voted Labour.

 

Point regards the NE seats, the Tories winning them damaged Labour UK wide more than it does the SNP, imo.

 

Labour's failure to grasp that constitutionally it's not just about Scotland - Dugdale tbf saw this, but Head office isn't interested!

 

Re your last point about competing extremes, I have to disagree.  Corbyn actually set out a vision that did address the "issues that dominate our lives", imo.  Where New Labour were and the Tories are now is much more extreme, but the narrative isn't painted as such.  If you are political, now should be the time to be energised and interested and dare I say hopeful of a better future.  Change is needed, it's the status quo that is wrecking things.

None of them will grasp the real problem

Its not about benefits, its not even about tax avoidance, or the rich getting too much- broad shoulders taking more of the burden

 

Its about an aging demographic costing the country untold billions that will soon dwarf everything else, with the "grey vote" having massive self interest and voting power

its how to address THAT and get some kind of reality to the situation

YOu cannot have the "working age" grinding themselves out to support a huge retired population, whilst ending up never able to retire themselves

Loads of people paying in to support others pensions , whilst unable to set aside for their own

I'll work until 67 to support folks who retired at 55

[Socrates]

I suspect Labour did well in a few reasonably well-off and unionist seats because they were seen as the only contender who could beat the SNP rather than as a result of anything that Kezia Dugdale had to say. Their wins in traditional working class Labour seats seem much more down to Corbyn than Dugdale.

[jambos are go!]

None of them will grasp the real problem

Its not about benefits, its not even about tax avoidance, or the rich getting too much- broad shoulders taking more of the burden

 

Its about an aging demographic costing the country untold billions that will soon dwarf everything else, with the "grey vote" having massive self interest and voting power

its how to address THAT and get some kind of reality to the situation

YOu cannot have the "working age" grinding themselves out to support a huge retired population, whilst ending up never able to retire themselves

Loads of people paying in to support others pensions , whilst unable to set aside for their own

I'll work until 67 to support folks who retired at 55

Whilst I agree with the premise I would point out that there increasing numbers  of folk of working age inheriting large estates from their baby boomer parents and pressurising all parties to meet care costs from asset rich pensioners though general taxation. Why should I pay taxes to protect their inheritance.

 

We need a complete overall of how we fund the elderly and social care but that must include pensioner assets and focus on the provision of proper social care as the priority

[doctor jambo]

Whilst I agree with the premise I would point out that there increasing numbers  of folk of working age inheriting large estates from their baby boomer parents and pressurising all parties to meet care costs from asset rich pensioners though general taxation. Why should I pay taxes to protect their inheritance.

 

We need a complete overall of how we fund the elderly and social care but that must include pensioner assets and focus on the provision of proper social care as the priority

I agree

The difficulty of those with "baby boomer " parents is that their parents are living so long that you don't inherit until the money is not as much use as it should have been.

I'm now in my 40's and have never inherited a bean, and my parents are in their 70's and healthy, and may live another 20+ years. dad retired aged 56

His life on "pension" will exceed his working life span by the time he pops it, and I may have retired by the time I inherit, which is pointless!

A discussion needs had, as May attempted and was shot down for.

The assets of the elderly somehow need mobilised to pay for their own care

[Space Mackerel]

I think it's a mixture. Think that comes across in what I'm saying Cosmic.

 

Dugdale had put a lot of hard graft into her party. It is to be admired given the circumstances.

 

I'd love to correct you on your last point, but life is just far too short my friend. Suffice to say Corbyn's university policy doesn't come at the expense of further education.

Basically, Corbyn bumped the Labour vote up in Scotland from somewhere around mid teens percentage wise to mid 20's.

 

And you came third, behind the dreaded Torys.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Scottish freedom fighter preaches to the masses in Germany today: Ich bin Ein Binliner.

 

[Space Mackerel]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaas, Trappers back with his copy and paste shite from Twatter which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

 

What a guy. [emoji7]

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaas, Trappers back with his copy and paste shite from Twatter which has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

 

What a guy. [emoji7]

 Here's the guest speaker:

[deesidejambo]

Here's the guest speaker:

Combat trousers? Is it the SNLA?

[Space Mackerel]

Here's the guest speaker:

Reported for being off topic

[Gizmo]

None of them will grasp the real problem

Its not about benefits, its not even about tax avoidance, or the rich getting too much- broad shoulders taking more of the burden

 

Its about an aging demographic costing the country untold billions that will soon dwarf everything else, with the "grey vote" having massive self interest and voting power

its how to address THAT and get some kind of reality to the situation

YOu cannot have the "working age" grinding themselves out to support a huge retired population, whilst ending up never able to retire themselves

Loads of people paying in to support others pensions , whilst unable to set aside for their own

I'll work until 67 to support folks who retired at 55

 

 

I agree

The difficulty of those with "baby boomer " parents is that their parents are living so long that you don't inherit until the money is not as much use as it should have been.

I'm now in my 40's and have never inherited a bean, and my parents are in their 70's and healthy, and may live another 20+ years. dad retired aged 56

His life on "pension" will exceed his working life span by the time he pops it, and I may have retired by the time I inherit, which is pointless!

A discussion needs had, as May attempted and was shot down for.

The assets of the elderly somehow need mobilised to pay for their own care

Your putting the blame on the wrong folk. That deal of a decent retirement age and being looked after having put in to the pension pot was not ripped away from our generation by our parents. It was ripped away by neo-liberal politics which drove down wages and reduced the corporate share of contributions to the economy.

 

Then you had the crashes - an inevitable consequence of weak banking regulation and growth based on housing booms and debt. The profits are for the few, the losses are socialised and we all pay for it in bullshit austerity allowing ideological reduction in all the post war gains. 

 

Gordon Brown pilfered the protected pension pot and then May, who was rightly shot down, trying to remove the triple-lock on pensions - damn cheek when pensions and benefits in this country are almost the lowest in Europe. 

 

Other countries can get this balance right. That we have a situation where we are significantly worse off in terms of retirement age, exorbitant private rents, and little chance of many getting onto the housing ladder, is entirely political.

 

 

[RobNox]

Your putting the blame on the wrong folk. That deal of a decent retirement age and being looked after having put in to the pension pot was not ripped away from our generation by our parents. It was ripped away by neo-liberal politics which drove down wages and reduced the corporate share of contributions to the economy.

 

Then you had the crashes - an inevitable consequence of weak banking regulation and growth based on housing booms and debt. The profits are for the few, the losses are socialised and we all pay for it in bullshit austerity allowing ideological reduction in all the post war gains. 

 

Gordon Brown pilfered the protected pension pot and then May, who was rightly shot down, trying to remove the triple-lock on pensions - damn cheek when pensions and benefits in this country are almost the lowest in Europe. 

 

Other countries can get this balance right. That we have a situation where we are significantly worse off in terms of retirement age, exorbitant private rents, and little chance of many getting onto the housing ladder, is entirely political.

 

 

Pretty much on the nail there bud!  The rich are getting richer, at the expense of the rest of us.

[Unknown user]

Prob would tbh

[Devi]

Combat trousers? Is it the SNLA?

Probably a combat kilt - his usual attire!

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Devi]

She's got an SNP bird. Didn't take her long to work the magic

And her Dad is a staunch SNP supporter so bombarded from all angles!

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Unknown user]

so bombarded from all angles!

 

[BudgeUp]

Jambox2 and Boris. Keep it up. You two debate finely without insults. You are also both not that far away from each other in viewpoints cos you're both arguing the same points i debate with myself in my head.

 

I'm going to bed now. Drunkish post. I do enjoy your posts on politics though.

 

I'd buy you both a tyskie.

[JamboX2]

41 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

Just signed up for I'm a Celebrity ...

 

"Getting on with the day job"

Tbf not her words but Ruth's.

 

Tbh she's not leader.

 

But for ****s sake. Stop. Making. A. Mockery. Of. The. Party!

[JamboX2]

4 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/labour-getting-day-job-snp-10693828

 

A standing politician taking three weeks off to appear in a TV show, surely her position is untenable.  Seems like a ludicrous decision, god know what she was thinking.

 

As she herself is yet to confirm it, then it's up in the air. But if true, then she hsd to step aside.

 

I genuinely thought she was doing some good as a leader. But if this is her idea of assisting from the back benches then go. Just go. Those who got flack from her as leader - Findlay and Marra especially - deserve a lot more credit than they've been given.

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

I'll never understand how a bright chap like yourself still believes that she was an effective leader.

That's the Labour cult, it's hard to break.

[Sarah O]

Dugdale going on I'm a celebrity...

 

Davidson going on Celebrity Baking....

 

 

Get back to yer day-jobs!!!

[ToadKiller Dog]

Dugdale going to the jungle maybe a wee bit of revenge from her on the Labour Scottish branch members who snipped at her stabbed  her back. 

 

Ruth the truth has got a cheak, Have I got news for you, celebrity bake off etc. 

The wee ginger dugs got it. 

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/im-a-labour-ex-leader-get-me-out-of-here/#respond

[Space Mackerel]

7 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

Tbf not her words but Ruth's.

 

Tbh she's not leader.

 

But for ****s sake. Stop. Making. A. Mockery. Of. The. Party!

 

Shes been guilty of hammering that saying just as much as Ruth. And every other other Labour, Tory MP, MSP, Councillor etc.

[JamboX2]

5 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

I'll never understand how a bright chap like yourself still believes that she was an effective leader.

We won 7 seats in a Westminster fight we didn't expect. Whilst a Corbyn bounce helped the work she had done in party reforms had helped the campaigning ability of the party: i.e. increased local control of campaigning in seats. Added to that she did force the government to take education seriously after ignoring it and underfunding it over the previous parliament.

 

But this is an utter slap in the face to the party (as was her resignation). She should resign her list seat and allow a new Labour MSP a chance to serve.

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, ToadKiller Dog said:

Dugdale going to the jungle maybe a wee bit of revenge from her on the Labour Scottish branch members who snipped at her stabbed  her back. 

 

Ruth the truth has got a cheak, Have I got news for you, celebrity bake off etc. 

The wee ginger dugs got it. 

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/11/18/im-a-labour-ex-leader-get-me-out-of-here/#respond

One off media appearances like celebrity bake off or Have I Got News For You are fine by me. Salmond used to appear on them regularly. Charlie Kennedy also. It can be good for raising a profile when you get little media attention.

 

But 3 weeks in the jungle? No. That's dereliction of duty.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

I'm sure she jumped at the chance to spend a few weeks in the bush

[jb102]

Scottish Labour go with the middle class white guy.

[EIEIO]

3 hours ago, Sarah O said:

Dugdale going on I'm a celebrity...

 

Davidson going on Celebrity Baking....

 

 

Get back to yer day-jobs!!!

Bang on you forgot the Tory twat referee though.

[milky_26]

3 hours ago, Sarah O said:

Dugdale going on I'm a celebrity...

 

Davidson going on Celebrity Baking....

 

 

Get back to yer day-jobs!!!

or going on the last leg or the daily show

[Cheile]

1 hour ago, Boo Khaki said:

I'm sure she jumped at the chance to spend a few weeks in the bush

 

 

Excellent!

 

[Space Mackerel]

Welcome to the SNP Kezia :-)

 

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1402512-leonard-dugdale-may-be-suspended-in-next-few-days/

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

Welcome to the SNP Kezia :-)

 

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1402512-leonard-dugdale-may-be-suspended-in-next-few-days/

 

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

Welcome to the SNP Kezia :-)

 

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1402512-leonard-dugdale-may-be-suspended-in-next-few-days/

You can have her.  Her and Eck will win plenty undecideds over to Indy.

 

 

in Spacey Land

[Space Mackerel]

3 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

 

You can have her.  Her and Eck will win plenty undecideds over to Indy.

 

 

in Spacey Land

 

Tossed aside like a used johnny.

 

Poor Kezia ?

[ri Alban]

23 hours ago, jb102 said:

Scottish Labour go with the middle class white guy.

What's your objection to this? Scotland's population is over 96% white. You didn't say Scottish labour go with the English guy instead of the Scottish guy. Why? Is the election of a Muslim over the white majority more important to your moral outrage, than the election of an Englishman over a Scotsman.

 

[JamboX2]

56 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

All i heard from her was flip-flopping, empty soundbites, and pointless platitudes.  I honestly think now that whatever happens in the future, I'll never return to Labour.  

Really can't be bothered going over old battles with you but Dugdale did do quite a bit of work reforming the way Labour operated behind the scenes for the better.

 

And she was good on education and inequalities between men and women.

 

But it's your vote. Your choice. What evs. Bit hard to vote Labour in Belgium though...

[JamboX2]

22 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Welcome to the SNP Kezia :-)

 

https://stv.tv/news/politics/1402512-leonard-dugdale-may-be-suspended-in-next-few-days/

I'm not too sure she'd want to join the SNP. You know, given how she's a unionist and called Sturgeon a liar over that claimed conversation.

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

Really can't be bothered going over old battles with you but Dugdale did do quite a bit of work reforming the way Labour operated behind the scenes for the better.

 

And she was good on education and inequalities between men and women.

 

But it's your vote. Your choice. What evs. Bit hard to vote Labour in Belgium though...

Corbyn won Scottish Labour 6 seats, nothing or no one else. Your kidding yourself if you think Kezia was the inspiration.