The terrible thing that's happened in america

[Bridge of Djoum]

Thanks, though in fairness what I said was more or less a symbolic representation of an easily observable and readily identifiable external reality.

 

Cheers. 

And here was me thinking you were some kinda Demigod. Turns out any of us could have written that.

[Ulysses]

And here was me thinking you were some kinda Demigod. Turns out any of us could have written that.

 

 

[niblick1874]

The first amendment (free speech) is under attack on all fronts by the deep state, all directed at anyone that speaks out against them.

 

Here is another way they are doing it and it is disgusting.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRuzg0sRoRU

 

 

Some may have come across the name Southern Poverty Law Center when George Clooney told us he was giving them one million dollars to fight hate groups right after Charlottesville (I like it when they out themselves like that).

 

Others will have come across them when looking into George Soros (yep, him again).

 

Nice sounding name is it not. Southern Poverty law Center.

 

All is not as it seems at first glance.

 

We are witnessing  a coup. 

 

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/southern-poverty-law-center-transfers-millions-offshore-accounts

 

They are now saying it's over 80 million that the non profit charitable organization has stashed away in off shore bank accounts.

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center which claim a staff of 75 lawyers who practice in the area of children's rights, economic justice, immigrant justice, LGBT rights and criminal justice reform reported spending only $61,000 on legal services in 2015.

 

Again, go have a look at what they are doing in reality. There are many people rightfully in fear for their lives because of them. Have a look at their map of America. $61,000? WTF.

 

 

Meanwhile, for others that can see beyond a smokescreen to what that smokescreen is there to cover up, I will show just one of the multitude of things, all showing the corruption that is rife within the deep state, that the American people are getting and the rest of the world is not.

 

 

If anyone thinks America has not woken up to this and much more they are mistaken.

 

Anyone that doesn't take into consideration that Trump is the duly elected President, voted in by the American people, are missing an integral part of the equation. They are being given no choice but to pick a side whilst seeing the above and thugs dressed in black with their faces covered claiming to be anarchists and communists while doing what they are doing.

 

The American MSM have shot their bolt and have shot themselves. The American people are seeing right through this.

 

Another update. 

 

 

This is massive and the ramifications are mindboggling. 

 

 

Not a peep from the MSM which should show, beyond any doubt, to anyone with any common sense, that it is not bias. They are knowingly playing an integral part of this coup.

 

I won't go into the lawsuit on behalf of thousands of Americans that is heading the way of CNN for what they did when reporting on the Southern Poverty Law Centers list of hate groups.  

[Ulysses]

Zoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

The SPLC is under attack by far right organizations who enjoy making facts up to suit their ends...

 

https://www.splcenter.org/news/2017/09/08/splc-demands-correction-fox-news

[Justin Z]

 

 

Link (to the TRUTH)

[niblick1874]

The SPLC is under attack by far right organizations who enjoy making facts up to suit their ends...

 

https://www.splcenter.org/news/2017/09/08/splc-demands-correction-fox-news

 

Is it wise to go to the web site of the subject matter to form an opinion? Big boy did it and ran away? In my post about the SPLC I made a point in asking those that read the post to have a look beyond what they and the MSM are saying about them, as in

 

 Again, go have a look at what they are doing in reality. There are many people rightfully in fear for their lives because of them. Have a look at their map of America.

 

I will leave it at that.

[niblick1874]

For those that are not getting this.

 

If or when the shit hits the fan, (doesn't have to get that bad), guess who gets it first from those that believe the MSM when they tell them that the SPLC are on the up and up. I think those on the hate list have a right to feel under threat. It stinks. When are they going to bring in the witch finder general?

 

It is way beyond stirring it.

[Sydney]

For those that are not getting this.

 

If or when the shit hits the fan, (doesn't have to get that bad), guess who gets it first from those that believe the MSM when they tell them that the SPLC are on the up and up. I think those on the hate list have a right to feel under threat. It stinks. When are they going to bring in the witch finder general?

 

It is way beyond stirring it.

No need to panic. As you say, the American people are all over this now, so they'll be ok.

[Ulysses]

No need to panic. As you say, the American people are all over this now, so they'll be ok.

 

I wonder do the American people have a paper trail? 

[Sydney]

I wonder do the American people have a paper trail? 

 

If you looked you would know.  You've been blinded by the swamp monsters and/or the MSM.

 

Why are you not seeing this?  The Americans know what's going on.

[Sidelight]

If you looked you would know.  You've been blinded by the swamp monsters and/or the MSM.

 

Why are you not seeing this?  The Americans know what's going on.

Maybe he's missing the supermarionation string control conducted under the Obama administration. Say one thing and implement the opposite, with a glossy  cover.

The portmanteau remains the same, but the strings are more difficult to control.

Don't suppose it will take too long to soften the strings.

Then back to the euthanasia death wish with colour and gloss, maybe even 3D.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Tiptoeing into the thread.

 

All I'll say is that the mood in Charlottesville is still tense since the term has started. Most of the students weren't back when the fascists showed up in town but it hangs in the air in every class period, and I just teach Intro to GIS.

 

And as we all knew it would, it looks like this is coming to Richmond sooner rather than later. The statues on Monument Ave. we're already getting talked about constantly when we moved here and it's only picked up over the years.

[Ulysses]

Maybe he's missing the supermarionation string control conducted under the Obama administration. Say one thing and implement the opposite, with a glossy  cover.

The portmanteau remains the same, but the strings are more difficult to control.

Don't suppose it will take too long to soften the strings.

Then back to the euthanasia death wish with colour and gloss, maybe even 3D.

 

 

OMG.......

 

 

.....so to speak.

[Ulysses]

If you looked you would know.  You've been blinded by the swamp monsters and/or the MSM.

 

Why are you not seeing this?  The Americans know what's going on.

 

 

[Sidelight]

OMG.......

 

 

.....so to speak.

He's the one who knows the Mysterons' game,

And things they plan.

[Riddley Walker]

Have the American people shared their secret with the rest of the world yet?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Have the American people shared their secret with the rest of the world yet?

 

We keep trying but the MSM mind control machi=----

 

---there's nothing to share, it's all fine, la la la la la

[Riddley Walker]

We keep trying but the MSM mind control machi=----

 

---there's nothing to share, it's all fine, la la la la la

Your mask is slipping, the American people know what you are.

 

Oh wait...

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Your mask is slipping, the American people know what you are.

 

Oh wait...

I am well and truly on the verge of being found out by me, the problem is that I'm also being hounded by me...

[Sidelight]

I am well and truly on the verge of being found out by me, the problem is that I'm also being hounded by me...

[Adam Murray]

Another figure from the past being held to account, by today's standards, for his deeds in the past.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scot-who-founded-canada-removed-from-banknotes-over-genocide-1-4565354

[jake]

Another figure from the past being held to account, by today's standards, for his deeds in the past.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scot-who-founded-canada-removed-from-banknotes-over-genocide-1-4565354

 

He sent 100 ,000 bairns to camps to reduce their savagery.

Removing his face from a banknote is a paltry price to pay.

 

And todays standards might be better if we acknowledge what in effect was child abuse on an industrial scale.

[Adam Murray]

He sent 100 ,000 bairns to camps to reduce their savagery.

Removing his face from a banknote is a paltry price to pay.

 

And todays standards might be better if we acknowledge what in effect was child abuse on an industrial scale.

 

I'm pretty sure people these day's are well aware of that.

 

Back then, different times, different scenarios, pioneers travelling the globe, completely different mindsets.

 

I suppose the point being is that anyone who thought this would end after the removal of a few confederate statues in the US were kidding themselves on.

 

Let's just hope that any kind of feminist movement don't start getting in on the act with out own Rabbie Burns, or it won't be too long before there's a noose around his statues neck down in Bernard Street. 

[jake]

I'm pretty sure people these day's are well aware of that.

 

Back then, different times, different scenarios, pioneers travelling the globe, completely different mindsets.

 

I suppose the point being is that anyone who thought this would end after the removal of a few confederate statues in the US were kidding themselves on.

 

Let's just hope that any kind of feminist movement don't start getting in on the act with out own Rabbie Burns, or it won't be too long before there's a noose around his statues neck down in Bernard Street.

 

Different times maybe.

But genocide and ethnic cleansing is still happening.

 

It would be more worrying if it was politically motivated.

But why should a criminal which you cannot deny he was be honoured.

 

I do think there is justification in removing what is effect a honour to a man who took away children from their parents on the basis of race.

Children who were then subjected to abuse.

 

I do get where you're coming from.

But i domt think you can excuse what happened.

[Adam Murray]

Different times maybe.

But genocide and ethnic cleansing is still happening.

 

It would be more worrying if it was politically motivated.

But why should a criminal which you cannot deny he was be honoured.

 

I do think there is justification in removing what is effect a honour to a man who took away children from their parents on the basis of race.

Children who were then subjected to abuse.

 

I do get where you're coming from.

But i domt think you can excuse what happened.

 

I don't think anyone is excusing what he did, totally wrong, but he helped shape Canada into the country it is today, good and bad.

 

I just feel that this path we are going down, where historical figures of the past are being judged on today's standards is totally wrong, my opinion of course.

[jake]

I don't think anyone is excusing what he did, totally wrong, but he helped shape Canada into the country it is today, good and bad.

 

I just feel that this path we are going down, where historical figures of the past are being judged on today's standards is totally wrong, my opinion of course.

 

I know what you mean.

I get that people associate statues of some historical figures with slavery.

And its understandable the anger against them.

But i also worry about tearing things down on the political climate or ethical reasons as its almost in line with book burning type scenario.

 

It could be argued that the pyramids were built with slave labour.

 

But it did anger me when i read your link.

I do accept your point of view though.

[Bindy Badgy]

It could be argued that the pyramids were built with slave labour.

 

The general consensus now seems to be that the pyramids weren't built by slaves. Slavery probably did exist in Egypt at that time but building the pyramids was seen as a privileged position.

 

http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

 

REDDING'S faunal evidence dealt a serious blow to the Hollywood version of pyramid building, with Charlton Heston as Moses intoning, "Pharaoh, let my people go!" There were slaves in Egypt, says Lehner, but the discovery that pyramid workers were fed like royalty buttresses other evidence that they were not slaves at all, at least in the modern sense of the word. 

 

[jake]

The general consensus now seems to be that the pyramids weren't built by slaves. Slavery probably did exist in Egypt at that time but building the pyramids was seen as a privileged position.

 

http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

 

Every days a school day.

Cheers for that

[Adam Murray]

The general consensus now seems to be that the pyramids weren't built by slaves. Slavery probably did exist in Egypt at that time but building the pyramids was seen as a privileged position.

 

http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

 

Did the people who built the pyramids then have to be entombed, along with the pharaohs and their various hangers on? Seen as some kind of honour or something.

[Bindy Badgy]

Did the people who built the pyramids then have to be entombed, along with the pharaohs and their various hangers on? Seen as some kind of honour or something.

 

I'm no expert but I think they were buried in tombs close to but not in the pyramids. They were buried according to the religious beliefs at the time with plentiful supplies for the afterlife. It was a short hard life but it was a respected position. They were given the best food available whilst alive and presumably thought that their hard work would be rewarded when they died.

[elvoys]

All of Dubai,Saudi and a World Cup is still being built on the back of slavery as we speak. As part of the Gulf Kafala employment system your employer basically sponsors and owns you (often on an indentured basis) until the contract's up. It's a hangover from official slavery that was only outlawed in the 1960s and which involved the gelding of Africans to protect the Arabian racial homogeneity. 

 

And today there's an African slave market going on in the open in Libya. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-public-slave-auctions-un-migration

 

Yet I'm pretty certain a majority of those yelling 'end whiteness' on their first days at top colleges, often on  scholarships in the most egalitarian country in history couldn't even point to these places on a map let alone start a campaign outside their embassies. 

[Adam Murray]

Brendan O'Neills take on it 

 

 

Students covering up statues of Thomas Jefferson; a statue of Columbus vandalised in Central Park; the Guardian calling for a bust of HG Wells in Surrey to be taken down... anyone who thought the statue-smahsing Year Zero hysteria would end once Confederate statues were toppled was sorely mistaken. The likeness of every historic figure whose life and ideas were not perfectly pure now faces attack. We live in such intolerant times that some people seriously think they have the right to erase history itself, to expunge the past from the present, to punish people who lived centuries ago for not subscribing to 21st-century pieties, for not being PC, for not being *like us*. People really should have made more effort to defend those Confederate statues, not because of who they honour, but because green-lighting the mob-led destruction of historic monuments has paved the way for a chilling new policing of the past. And as Orwell said, "He who controls the past controls the future".

[jake]

Brendan O'Neills take on it

 

 

Students covering up statues of Thomas Jefferson; a statue of Columbus vandalised in Central Park; the Guardian calling for a bust of HG Wells in Surrey to be taken down... anyone who thought the statue-smahsing Year Zero hysteria would end once Confederate statues were toppled was sorely mistaken. The likeness of every historic figure whose life and ideas were not perfectly pure now faces attack. We live in such intolerant times that some people seriously think they have the right to erase history itself, to expunge the past from the present, to punish people who lived centuries ago for not subscribing to 21st-century pieties, for not being PC, for not being *like us*. People really should have made more effort to defend those Confederate statues, not because of who they honour, but because green-lighting the mob-led destruction of historic monuments has paved the way for a chilling new policing of the past. And as Orwell said, "He who controls the past controls the future".

 

It does resonate about intolerance.

 

Dont know if anyone saw the piece about Scottish Dawn on stv.

The guy commenting was a sociology professor i think.

Ive commented on this before so apologies if you have already read it.

Anyway.

He noted that being part of the party that this Scottish Dawn had evolved from was illegal.

It is possible to be jailed for ten years for this.

The reason they were outlawed was for comments about the labour mp who was killed.

In effect we now have thought crime.

These laws were introduced and its with the approval of liberal minded people.

 

So your post is interesting in the sense that these intolerances are being driven by the very people you would expect to oppose them.

 

I still find it hard to disagree with the guy being taken of the canadian note.

But i also see how whats happening could set in motion a dangerous trend.

 

Extremism does seem to be on the rise right and left.

Or am i just getting old ?

[Maple Leaf]

As a Scottish-Canadian, I agree with the removal of MacDonald's image from the bank notes.  His influence on the formation of Canada was enormous, and that is viewed by most people as positive.  

 

But the Residential School program was a hideous chapter in Canadian history and that shouldn't be overlooked.  The Indigenous people were viewed as savages, and the approach taken was to forcibly remove the children from their families and raise them as Christians.  The schools were run by Christians, and the children were subjected to levels of abuse that would horrify the most hardened person.  The death rate among the children was sky-high.  Societies values have changed, to be sure, but that doesn't alter the tragedy that happened, and the long-term effects on  the Indigenous people.  I'm also sure that MacDonald's intentions were good, but that doesn't change the facts.

 

MacDonald has had his day in the sun, now it's time to move on.

[Rocco_Jambo]

As a Scottish-Canadian, I agree with the removal of MacDonald's image from the bank notes.  His influence on the formation of Canada was enormous, and that is viewed by most people as positive.  

 

But the Residential School program was a hideous chapter in Canadian history and that shouldn't be overlooked.  The Indigenous people were viewed as savages, and the approach taken was to forcibly remove the children from their families and raise them as Christians.  The schools were run by Christians, and the children were subjected to levels of abuse that would horrify the most hardened person.  The death rate among the children was sky-high.  Societies values have changed, to be sure, but that doesn't alter the tragedy that happened, and the long-term effects on  the Indigenous people.  I'm also sure that MacDonald's intentions were good, but that doesn't change the facts.

 

MacDonald has had his day in the sun, now it's time to move on.

 

You could probably count on one hand the amount of North American leaders at federal or state level before the 20th Century that didn't view the indigenous people as savages or weren't in some way culpable in their genocide.

[Maple Leaf]

You could probably count on one hand the amount of North American leaders at federal or state level before the 20th Century that didn't view the indigenous people as savages or weren't in some way culpable in their genocide.

I agree.  With the comfortable view of hindsight, it's a damning indictment of what was considered to be enlightened Western values.

[elvoys]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BevHillsAntifa/status/912411161915559936/video/1

 

Ha, youre never pure enough for the puritans. Antifa would be a Monty Python sketch in any other time but this white man original sin bs is taught for degrees all over western unis.

 

And they'd last all of five seconds outwith their leafy safe spaces if they were sent back in a time machine to face actual nazis.

 

'Performative' Pfff

[Watt-Zeefuik]

You could probably count on one hand the amount of North American leaders at federal or state level before the 20th Century that didn't view the indigenous people as savages or weren't in some way culpable in their genocide.

Ironically most of the ones that tried to do right were in the military. Multiple generals and colonels negotiated in good faith with indigenous folks only to go back and be completely submarined by Congress.

 

As to taking people off of banknotes or taking down monuments, you don't have to erase people from the history books or never mention their names again. But you also don't have to continue to print their faces millions of times over and put their faces in everyone's wallet when they go to the store to buy beer and peanuts.  "Oh but we're judging yesterday's people by today's values" is not only often wrong (there were usually plenty of people at the time who thought it was wrong and weren't shy about saying so) but is the wrong argument, because money and monuments are also about what we choose to valorize today.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Brendan O'Neills take on it 

 

 

Students covering up statues of Thomas Jefferson; a statue of Columbus vandalised in Central Park; the Guardian calling for a bust of HG Wells in Surrey to be taken down... anyone who thought the statue-smahsing Year Zero hysteria would end once Confederate statues were toppled was sorely mistaken. The likeness of every historic figure whose life and ideas were not perfectly pure now faces attack. We live in such intolerant times that some people seriously think they have the right to erase history itself, to expunge the past from the present, to punish people who lived centuries ago for not subscribing to 21st-century pieties, for not being PC, for not being *like us*. People really should have made more effort to defend those Confederate statues, not because of who they honour, but because green-lighting the mob-led destruction of historic monuments has paved the way for a chilling new policing of the past. And as Orwell said, "He who controls the past controls the future".

 

Hard to differentiate what these idiots are doing to the Taliban destruction of the Buddha statues in Afghanistan or the Isis destruction of Palmyra. Same mindset it would seem. "doesn't fit with my/our outlook/religeon/PC views so destroy it"! 

[elvoys]

Ironically most of the ones that tried to do right were in the military. Multiple generals and colonels negotiated in good faith with indigenous folks only to go back and be completely submarined by Congress.

 

As to taking people off of banknotes or taking down monuments, you don't have to erase people from the history books or never mention their names again. But you also don't have to continue to print their faces millions of times over and put their faces in everyone's wallet when they go to the store to buy beer and peanuts.  "Oh but we're judging yesterday's people by today's values" is not only often wrong (there were usually plenty of people at the time who thought it was wrong and weren't shy about saying so) but is the wrong argument, because money and monuments are also about what we choose to valorize today.

 

Can I just check that this standard of what society finds palpable applies across the board and not just those that meet the social justice pyramid of oppression criteria (ie dead, white male)? 

 

Mandela's legacy would surely be in for a rough time if that were the case . A terrorist, woman beater and card carrying communist. I guess that most people would not want to valorise these qualities in today's world.

 

But then Mandela is someone that I do want a statue of  and I would fight tooth and nail to see him memorialise for the simple matter that his symbolism overrides his extremely chequered past whilst not erasing it. Just like Lord Nelson, just like Jefferson, just like Malcolm X, just like Churchill etc, etc, etc, etc

[Francis Albert]

You could probably count on one hand the amount of North American leaders at federal or state level before the 20th Century that didn't view the indigenous people as savages or weren't in some way culpable in their genocide.

You can come much nearer to the present before "enlightenment" dawned. Hollywood was still churning out westerns well into the 50's celebrating  John Wayne and Gary Cooper killing the "savages". James Baldwin, in the recent documentary "I am not your *****" based on interviews and speeches from the '6o's, recalled cheering on Gary Cooper in such films when a youngster growing up in Harlem. Later knowledge revealed that he had been cheering the wrong side.

 

As a bit of an aside the documentary is strongly recommended if you want to know more about "the  "terrible thing that's happened in America". It got very limited release but was Oscar nominated so might turn up on Netflix or Amazon ... or maybe not.

 

Edit - the censored word is not the six letter word beginning with n but the five letter one - surprised that it should be deemed so offensive as to require censoring.

[elvoys]

What is wrong with that?

Approximately 94 million reasons to see it as wrong.

 

Best starting point of wrongness is not necessarily when Marxism fitted like a glove with Lenin's taste for slaughter of the wealthy but the Ukranian Holodomor ('hunger death). It worked in wiping out the landed poor as well as another 3 mill along with them.

[Socrates]

Brendan O'Neills take on it 

 

 

Students covering up statues of Thomas Jefferson; a statue of Columbus vandalised in Central Park; the Guardian calling for a bust of HG Wells in Surrey to be taken down... anyone who thought the statue-smahsing Year Zero hysteria would end once Confederate statues were toppled was sorely mistaken. The likeness of every historic figure whose life and ideas were not perfectly pure now faces attack. We live in such intolerant times that some people seriously think they have the right to erase history itself, to expunge the past from the present, to punish people who lived centuries ago for not subscribing to 21st-century pieties, for not being PC, for not being *like us*. People really should have made more effort to defend those Confederate statues, not because of who they honour, but because green-lighting the mob-led destruction of historic monuments has paved the way for a chilling new policing of the past. And as Orwell said, "He who controls the past controls the future".

 

Usual load of slavers from O'Neill. Perhaps he should start campaigning for Nazi statues to be put back up in Germany, or wander round Eastern Europe trying to get Lenin back up on a pedestal. Strangely enough, neither of those parts of the world have forgotten their history.

[elvoys]

Usual load of slavers from O'Neill. Perhaps he should start campaigning for Nazi statues to be put back up in Germany, or wander round Eastern Europe trying to get Lenin back up on a pedestal. Strangely enough, neither of those parts of the world have forgotten their history.

HG Wells has not offended me in the slightest. That Steven Spielberg adaptation of his on the other hand... 

[Francis Albert]

Usual load of slavers from O'Neill. Perhaps he should start campaigning for Nazi statues to be put back up in Germany, or wander round Eastern Europe trying to get Lenin back up on a pedestal. Strangely enough, neither of those parts of the world have forgotten their history.

By the standards of today the original Socrates was almost certainly a paedophile. Maybe you need to take down your avatar?

[elvoys]

By the standards of today the original Socrates was almost certainly a paedophile. Maybe you need to take down your avatar?

Aristotle likely got a bit of quid pro quo for young Alexander's 'learning'.

 

Still, today's iconoclasts could do with learning about his principle of competing virtues. 

 

They might find Nietzche however cuts a bit too close to the bone -

 

You preachers of equality, the tyrannomania of impotence clamors thus out of you for equality:your most secret ambitions to be tyrants thus shroud themselves

[Socrates]

By the standards of today the original Socrates was almost certainly a paedophile. Maybe you need to take down your avatar?

Or maybe I don't. But the sky won't fall down if we talk about these things. This idea that history is fixed and should never be discussed or re-evaluated is pretty nuts.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Can I just check that this standard of what society finds palpable applies across the board and not just those that meet the social justice pyramid of oppression criteria (ie dead, white male)? 

 

Mandela's legacy would surely be in for a rough time if that were the case . A terrorist, woman beater and card carrying communist. I guess that most people would not want to valorise these qualities in today's world.

 

But then Mandela is someone that I do want a statue of  and I would fight tooth and nail to see him memorialise for the simple matter that his symbolism overrides his extremely chequered past whilst not erasing it. Just like Lord Nelson, just like Jefferson, just like Malcolm X, just like Churchill etc, etc, etc, etc

 

The problems with Jefferson are becoming increasingly common knowledge -- in addition to being a slaver there's his treatment of Sally Hemmings. And yes, there are students that shrouded his statue at UVA, the university he personally founded, but that was a protest about adding more context to the university grounds not an actual call for removal. But the Jefferson memorial in Washington isn't going anywhere any time soon.

 

The Confederate monuments, on the other hand, were explicitly put up at the time to reinforce the reign of white supremacy in the US, particularly (but not exclusively) in the US South. The local Richmond paper, an infuriatingly staunchly conservative rag, re-ran its front page from the day in the 1890s when the Lee monument was put up. The paper itself called the presentation of the a bad idea, saying it was over the top and that it would end up being a divisive action and would become a point of conflict in the future. So as I said, it's not even some gap between yesterday's and today's standards that we're judging on -- it's that the white supremacists at the time erected the things over the objections of people making the same arguments that people are today.  It's just a matter of who won that fight then, and who's winning it now.

 

There are no perfect people -- MLK was a serial adulterer and apparently difficult to work with. But there's more to monumentality than who's being depicted -- there's the actual content of the monument and the intent with which it was placed. Lenin was a critically important figure in the defeat of fascism but that's not why his statue was all over Eastern Europe -- those statues, like Confederate monuments erected all over the south, were there to remind certain people who was in charge and to stay in line.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Or maybe I don't. But the sky won't fall down if we talk about these things. This idea that history is fixed and should never be discussed or re-evaluated is pretty nuts.

 

Does re-evaluating history equate to rewriting it to suit your (not you per se Socrates) agenda?