The NEW Cathro poll

[Dr Lager]

This.

 

I doubt there was ever going to be anything but a clear majority on this question but there's no doubt that aggressively naming and shaming the first of the STAY voters would be a deterrent to others doing the same and, as a result, the extent of the majority is potentially way off. They were completely shut down before the poll even really got started.

A significant number of stay voters have posted very few times often about shed trivia. Some of them openly admit supporting other teams. Most genuine fans have posted explaining why they voted stay for example due to the cost or because they have always advocated giving him the first run of games. I just don't accept that there are hundreds of cathro loyalists who are too frightened to vote for him.

[socrates82]

I think his influence at Newcastle was much less than the hype suggested when we were duped into appointing him. If their form dipped it had nothing to do with Cathro leaving.

 

It seems like he is a good coach and I'm sure he'll have a decent career as a No. 2 like many other good coaches who fail when put into the main hot seat. Brian Clough just told his players to enjoy themselves. Klopp is loved by his players. At our level, Neilson seems to be great with players as is Derek McInnes. Alex Neil, Chris Coleman and Michael O'Neil (all fairly inexperienced when they took big jobs) seem to have that quality. We need a guy who can get the players putting their limbs on the line for him, whether he's an experienced manager or not.

Edited July 31, 2017 by socrates82

[deejtee]

This.

 

I doubt there was ever going to be anything but a clear majority on this question but there's no doubt that aggressively naming and shaming the first of the STAY voters would be a deterrent to others doing the same and, as a result, the extent of the majority is potentially way off. They were completely shut down before the poll even really got started.

There has been rudeness on JKB all along around this subject a bit like some others that divide opinion. I cannot accept that this has significantly skewed this vote as there truly has been a feeling of seeing enough and hearing enough of Cathro. Anyone who reads and posts on here knows the score about abusive posts and either like it or lump it. 

[kingantti1874]

Please do elaborate..........or gtf.

Is there anyone on here you haven't told to gtf or some other obscenity over the past couple of days your a pretty angry guy..

[And Sow makes it 10]

He has to go, enough is enough

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

He has to go, enough is enough

Your name.

[Spellczech]

Not going to vote on the poll as I said he should get a year in the job, but it's looking an impossible task now. It really ought not to have come to this before the league season has even begun. I was of the opinion that the LC games were just competitive pre-season friendlies, but we have been really poor in them...Not just a lack of improvement but actually we've gotten worse! or at least results have...

 

Just seems that Cathro has ideas and talks a lot about players adapting, but he shows no signs of adapting his own approach when things are patently not working. It is frustrating as he clearly has the capacity to learn but he's also got this Dundonian stubbornness or perhaps even egotistical self-belief,  which prevents him actually doing it.  When he talks, he acknowledges that he is still learning, but there are just no outward signs that he IS learning. It is unfortunate because he has essentially been given the chance that everyone would love to have, but he's really not approached it in the right manner. He's talked about "adapting and changing and being aggressive and playing attractive football", but his teams do none of these things... You don't fix a broken team by only buying defenders and strikers. Our midfield and GK also need strengthened and we just haven't done it.

 

Dropping Walker entirely from the squad and playing Souttar for more than the first half made it clear that anything less than a win yesterday was on the manager's shoulders....

 

 

You really have been out of touch by not knowing Cathro has been out of his depth.

Not sure quite how your reply is a response to my post. I supported him in February & March; At that point I said i'd give him a calendar year, and hope that we see signs of improvement in the dead rubber games. The fact that we've remained poor since then doesn't necessarily show you are prescient, it simply shows that Cathro is incapable of adapting.

 

Have you come up with any alternative suggestions to Cathro yet? Or is it still nothing from you, and just Tommy Wright from others? You see, I fear that the expectations gap between being St Johnstone manager and being Hearts manager is enormous, yet ironically they are currently better than us!

[kingantti1874]

Not sure quite how your reply is a response to my post. I supported him in February & March; At that point I said i'd give him a calendar year, and hope that we see signs of improvement in the dead rubber games. The fact that we've remained poor since then doesn't necessarily show you are prescient, it simply shows that Cathro is incapable of adapting.

 

Have you come up with any alternative suggestions to Cathro yet? Or is it still nothing from you, and just Tommy Wright from others? You see, I fear that the expectations gap between being St Johnstone manager and being Hearts manager is enormous, yet ironically they are currently better than us!

There are lots and lots of options.. Houston, Archibald, lambert, mcleish.. Michael O'Neil (probably out if our reach) there arent many I wouldn't take ahead of Cathro Edited July 31, 2017 by kingantti1874

[Nookie Bear]

If we advertised the role, there would be no shortage of quality candidates from Scotland and beyond.

[socrates82]

There are lots and lots of options.. Houston, Archibald, lambert, mcleish.. Michael O'Neil (probably out if our reach) there arent many I wouldn't take ahead of Cathro

 

They are only options if they want to come and we can afford them. 

[AlimOzturk]

Can't believe the board are willing to sacrifice the start of this season for this experiment.

 

No wonder the fans are raging.

Edited July 31, 2017 by AlimOzturk

[Ivan Drago]

Can't believe the board are willing to sacrifice the start of this season for this experiment.

 

No wonder the fans are raging.

Clearly don't care if we're in the championship next season as long as we have a new stand and Levein doesn't have to admit he's made a total arse of things

[kingantti1874]

They are only options if they want to come and we can afford them.

Of course.. I'd not pay Cathro off.. Just out him on garden leave like Rangers did with mccoist.. He is undoubtedly rated as a coach.. He won't want to be out of the game.. Newcastle or another club will take him in a coaching capacity.. Problem solved..

 

Point is. There is no shortage of options

 

I do accept levein may be a limiting factor.. At a minimum his role and responsibilities may have to be reduced.

 

I've said few times.. Financially we can't afford not to sack Cathro

Edited July 31, 2017 by kingantti1874

[smiler]

Is there anyone on here you haven't told to gtf or some other obscenity over the past couple of days your a pretty angry guy..

Not as angry as you appear to be, I am pretty though.

Anyway I suspect that chap is accusing me of trolling so he can stfu anaw, hope that's okay.

Edited July 31, 2017 by smiler

[socrates82]

Of course.. I'd not pay Cathro off.. Just out him on garden leave like Rangers did with mccoist.. He is undoubtedly rated as a coach.. He won't want to be out of the game.. Newcastle or another club will take him in a coaching capacity.. Problem solved..

 

Point is. There is no shortage of options

 

I do accept levein may be a limiting factor.. At a minimum his role and responsibilities may have to be reduced.

 

I've said few times.. Financially we can't afford not to sack Cathro

 

I honestly think he'll be gone by the opening of the stand (unless of course a miracle happens and it all clicks for him!). Levein and Budge will take a measure of how we do in the first 3 or 4 games and if things carry on, they'll move pretty quickly to have someone in by the stand opening IMO. It should be a celebration not a day remembered for fans venting their fury because it's their first opportunity to do that. 

 

With Levein's role, if he is involving himself in the team it's clearly not working so him focusing on youth and coaches and transfers is fine. I think that is his role anyhow it's just some choose not to believe it. It was the same with Neilson. No matter how many times Robbie himself confirmed there was no meddling, folk had just got it into their heads that's what was happening.

Edited July 31, 2017 by socrates82

[AlimOzturk]

Clearly don't care if we're in the championship next season as long as we have a new stand and Levein doesn't have to admit he's made a total arse of things

I think there must be plans being out into place. There is no way the board would be willing to flirt with the threat of bottom 6 or worse relegation.

 

It would be a disaster. Surely if they have given him 4 games to save his job then they must be sounding out potential replacements. And they must realise we will not accept another young, inexperienced coach again

 

Could be big changes soon. Just don't realise why we are not doing now. Seems like a lot of face saving and hoping for the best.

[Spellczech]

There are lots and lots of options.. Houston, Archibald, lambert, mcleish.. Michael O'Neil (probably out if our reach) there arent many I wouldn't take ahead of Cathro

The only one of those who has experience of being the No1 at a club where the expectations are as high as at Hearts is McLeish. All the others are a spin of the wheel...

[kingantti1874]

I don't think there will be any possibility of 4 games to save his job.. Hes done.. I think the club don't want to expose a new manager to 4 defeats on the bounce away from home

[kingantti1874]

The only one of those who has experience of being the No1 at a club where the expectations are as high as at Hearts is McLeish. All the others are a spin of the wheel...

Yep.. But we are currently burst.. Not a hard gamble to take..

 

Lambert has managed bigger clubs than hearts.. And Houston has been here before

[socrates82]

The only one of those who has experience of being the No1 at a club where the expectations are as high as at Hearts is McLeish. All the others are a spin of the wheel...

 

McLeish and Levein? No chance. We will be spinning the wheel for sure to an extent, just not as risky a spin as the Cathro appointment or even Neilson, but Houston is the standout candidate.

[Spellczech]

McLeish and Levein? No chance. We will be spinning the wheel for sure to an extent, just not as risky a spin as the Cathro appointment or even Neilson, but Houston is the standout candidate.

Depends. Houston was Levein's No2. That will either be a deal maker or a deal breaker. I agree McLeish is a non-starter. Only a couple of months ago he was putting himself out there to be DOF at Ibrox.

[deejtee]

I don't think there will be any possibility of 4 games to save his job.. Hes done.. I think the club don't want to expose a new manager to 4 defeats on the bounce away from home

There is no reason a decent coach would lose all 4 games. Only Parkhead would be damage limitation

[socrates82]

There is no reason a decent coach would lose all 4 games. Only Parkhead would be damage limitation

 

In a sense it would be good to get the Celtic and Rangers games out the way - win or lose - before a new guy comes in to limit the pressure on him from the start. Literally no-one is expecting Cathro to get points from those. The fixture list after that is kinder. Key fixture is the derby. By the Aberdeen game I think we'll have a much clearer idea of how this season will pan out.

Edited July 31, 2017 by socrates82

[Spellczech]

Yep.. But we are currently burst.. Not a hard gamble to take..

 

Lambert has managed bigger clubs than hearts.. And Houston has been here before

Lambert? I ignored that one TBH - didn't think you were serious, just noting that he is available...

 

He has never stuck at any job he's had. Sacked from most of them. Even managed to get sacked by Villa at a time when their owner had so little interest in the club, he probably survived just because of that!

[kingantti1874]

Lambert? I ignored that one TBH - didn't think you were serious, just noting that he is available...

 

He has never stuck at any job he's had. Sacked from most of them. Even managed to get sacked by Villa at a time when their owner had so little interest in the club, he probably survived just because of that!

Did a good job at Norwich.. Underwhelming since.. Wouldn't be top of the list..

[WageThief]

There is no reason a decent coach would lose all 4 games. Only Parkhead would be damage limitation

 

Well even Cathro won at Motherwell.... ;-)

 

Bearing in mind our away record since promotion I'd say 6 points would be highly unlikely.  2 points far more likely than 6 as well.

[deejtee]

Well even Cathro won at Motherwell.... ;-)

 

Bearing in mind our away record since promotion I'd say 6 points would be highly unlikely.  2 points far more likely than 6 as well.

Better than Zip with Cathro 

[Gordon Ramsay]

Looks like the head in the sand approach from Budge and Levein is set to continue.

 

We will be planted at the bottom of the table this time next month.

[YMWrules]

The fact that there has been no communication despite the clear showing of frustration in the stadium on Saturday speaks volumes of the people in charge at Hearts and how much they actually respect our supporters,we are a cash cow for a Levein vision that is a flawed concept yet we are still going along with this,crazy.

[David McCaig]

This.

 

I doubt there was ever going to be anything but a clear majority on this question but there's no doubt that aggressively naming and shaming the first of the STAY voters would be a deterrent to others doing the same and, as a result, the extent of the majority is potentially way off. They were completely shut down before the poll even really got started.

All any genuine jambo voting stay has to do is give a plausible reason.

 

I've been swimming against the tide on the main stand thread as I have a couple of minor gripes, but don't feel the need to hide under a clock of anonymity.

[CJGJ]

Why do they have to decide in 72 hours ?

 

This is a decision that demands thought and debate not a quick fix to soothe feelings of the masses.

 

I'd rather they took the time to get the right decision as they see it rather than a quick fix

 

PS i'm happy to admit I'm not yet 100% sold on the idea of him going so get your naming and shaming pitchforks at the ready.

 

I just can't thing of a logical reason why not though.

[Dazzle]

Why do they have to decide in 72 hours ?

 

This is a decision that demands thought and debate not a quick fix to soothe feelings of the masses.

 

I'd rather they took the time to get the right decision as they see it rather than a quick fix

 

PS i'm happy to admit I'm not yet 100% sold on the idea of him going so get your naming and shaming pitchforks at the ready.

 

I just can't thing of a logical reason why not though.

 

It is astonishing that Cathro and Levein are still in a job. There has been absolutely no indication that things are getting better or will get better in the next few games. I expect a tanking when we play Celtic although I would be pleasantly surprised if we managed a draw. We are not going to get much from the first five games under the best of circumstances but with these two incompetent buffoons in charge we are going to get off to a bad start which will create even more anxiety in the support. Cathro and Levein is a lost cause, something has to be done sharpish. They are only prolonging the inevitable with this charade. 

[Hagar the Horrible]

I am actually angry now at Ann, we should have a statement either sacking him or backing him?  I don't like being angry at Ann

 

I we keep him for 4 games, zero points, and we make it harder for ourselves, at that point CL and IC will both need punted

[redm]

All any genuine jambo voting stay has to do is give a plausible reason.

 

I've been swimming against the tide on the main stand thread as I have a couple of minor gripes, but don't feel the need to hide under a clock of anonymity.

It's not all they'd have to do though. They'd have to defend their opinion against a pretty vocal number of people who think that position is nuts. Many people wouldn't fancy the aggro. It has been an intense couple of days.

[Dazzle]

I am actually angry now at Ann, we should have a statement either sacking him or backing him?  I don't like being angry at Ann

 

I we keep him for 4 games, zero points, and we make it harder for ourselves, at that point CL and IC will both need punted

 

The first six games are all difficult with the exception of maybe Motherwell. Zero points is a possibility but I think unlikely. It would beggar belief that if we do badly in these games that both Levein and Cathro are still here. 

[deejtee]

It's not all they'd have to do though. They'd have to defend their opinion against a pretty vocal number of people who think that position is nuts. Many people wouldn't fancy the aggro. It has been an intense couple of days.

Their position is nuts but it has not stopped thousands of posters on here 

[smiler]

All any genuine jambo voting stay has to do is give a plausible reason.

You have a high opinion of yourself don't you.....

 

I, or anyone else for that matter, don't have to explain zip to you.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

It's not all they'd have to do though. They'd have to defend their opinion against a pretty vocal number of people who think that position is nuts. Many people wouldn't fancy the aggro. It has been an intense couple of days.

The evidence of the other thread doesn't support that view.

[WJambo]

6.37% of our supporters think it'll all be Ok?

[Rocco_Jambo]

This.

 

I doubt there was ever going to be anything but a clear majority on this question but there's no doubt that aggressively naming and shaming the first of the STAY voters would be a deterrent to others doing the same and, as a result, the extent of the majority is potentially way off. They were completely shut down before the poll even really got started.

Did that logic get applied to the previous poll? Because even after the Peterhead game those who were suggesting that Peterhead wasn't just a blip and Cathro should go because he wasn't up to the job were getting aggressively called vermin and other puerile names such as 'PANTZ WETTERZ'.

[Ray Gin]

Boyd is correct.

 

The man is socially awkward, he creeps me out a bit tbh.

"he creeps me out"

 

[RobNox]

I can't see the logic in giving him 4 games, that sounds like dithering to me, and leads to some quandaries....

 

Will we let him bring in any more players?  If we do, and he still fails, we're stuck with those players.  If we don't, then we're hardly giving him a fair chance.  More to the point, would anyone want to sign for a club where the Head Coach could be gone within weeks?

 

To me the decision is black and white.  Either he retains the faith of the Board or he does not.  If not, he should be emptied asap, allowing for negotiations over settlement terms etc.  If they still have faith in him (goodness knows why!) then they have to make clear that he will be in situ for the foreseeable future and will be given opportunities to further strengthen the team.

 

Anything in between is a fudge and will only create a period of uncertainty and mounting speculation, which surely isn't going to help anyone.

[Nookie Bear]

I can't see the logic in giving him 4 games, that sounds like dithering to me, and leads to some quandaries....

 

Will we let him bring in any more players? If we do, and he still fails, we're stuck with those players. If we don't, then we're hardly giving him a fair chance. More to the point, would anyone want to sign for a club where the Head Coach could be gone within weeks?

 

To me the decision is black and white. Either he retains the faith of the Board or he does not. If not, he should be emptied asap, allowing for negotiations over settlement terms etc. If they still have faith in him (goodness knows why!) then they have to make clear that he will be in situ for the foreseeable future and will be given opportunities to further strengthen the team.

 

Anything in between is a fudge and will only create a period of uncertainty and mounting speculation, which surely isn't going to help anyone.

Good post.

 

Some seem to think he is working his notice and we will be advertising the role in the meantime. This merely keeps us firmly in a time of uncertainty.

 

Either he is staying, and given support of the board to buy/sell players, or he goes now.

 

A club statement would be good because I don't think the end-august/4 game thing is anything more than a rumour?

[RS86]

If he was being punted he would have went today in my opinion. Should be gone.

 

Expecting to see a signing announced sometime this week now that Johnsen's wages are freed up to try and appease us...

[socrates82]

Good post.

 

Some seem to think he is working his notice and we will be advertising the role in the meantime. This merely keeps us firmly in a time of uncertainty.

 

Either he is staying, and given support of the board to buy/sell players, or he goes now.

 

A club statement would be good because I don't think the end-august/4 game thing is anything more than a rumour?

 

Surely the 4 game thing is just the number of games before we play at home, at which point we either need to have the team playing well and getting results under Cathro or we need someone new in the job, otherwise opening the new stand will be a wake instead of a celebration. No-one expects us to beat Celtic so I hope the board is taking at least a week to chat things over, see what replacements might be realistic and talk to Cathro. Rushed out statements are never a good thing.

 

I think end of the month gives us time to appoint a replacement, still make a couple of transfer window signings and go into the Aberdeen game looking ahead. The fixtures after that pan out quite well potentially for any new manager, and he'd have time to work with the team before the first big test in the derby.

Edited July 31, 2017 by socrates82

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

If he was being punted he would have went today in my opinion. Should be gone.

 

Expecting to see a signing announced sometime this week now that Johnsen's wages are freed up to try and appease us...

Thankfully it's too late to wow us with new signings. Cathro's an imposter and everyone knows it.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

If someone's not up to their job there's no point in keeping them a moment longer. MacPhee in temporary charge makes much more sense.

[socrates82]

Hibs should be a warning here. They stuck with poor managers for far too long in the likes of Calderwood, Fenlon and Butcher in particular.

[1971fozzy]

An absolute DISGRACE that we've not had anything from the club today. Didn't even have to be a "he's sacked" or "he's not sacked" but ffs we deserved a statement saying something. I have always backed Levein in many respects but he's really shown himself up as a coward and a man who's full of his own self importance shite since the actual appointment. I want Cathro out but the way our DOF has left him out to hang is shocking. I'd go as far now as to say Levein should actually go. Of course we mostly applauded Cathros appointment but at the end of the day we're not paid ?150k a year to decide it on our expertise. We are in the main supporters who ride on the crest of an optimistic wave unfortunately.

Time for complete change at our DOF level for me.

[Bazzas right boot]

**** it.

 

After a think, I originally said I'd give him the  first round of  fixtures and I am going back to that.

 

No real logical reason, however I felt for months  that was fair. New team, his team, first round of fixtures

 

Non qualification from the group in LC is poor, and in all honesty I don't see how he can recover.

 

I live in hope of a George Burley type start, which also included us getting humped out the league cup early.

 

I'm giving him the first round of fixtures. for the time being I'll get behind the team and wait for our first home game in anticipation, no matter what.