All roads lead to Gorgie Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 I thought Sow the individual was a bit overrated but he was crucial to the way the team played which was more important. I agree he could be hit and miss and he did have a few quiet games but he was a go to player when we needed an out ball into the channels. He also had that Rudi quality of having a relatively poor game but still taking the big chances when they came along. We really need a talismanic element back in the team and Sow would bring that if this story was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texia Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Anyone got a gif of that skill past Logan in the Aberdeen cup game? Beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic_bas Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Any excuse to revisit this goal. Glorious. https://youtu.be/K6AKabeTFzE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Hearts Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Any excuse to revisit this goal. Glorious. Nice. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Apprentice Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Any excuse to revisit this goal. Glorious. Thanks for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Apprentice Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 So it's not ok to ask questions on here? Give me a break eh It's a wee bit tedious mate... come on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie.nolan.5 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 You admitted rightly that recruitment has been a shambles. I agree that's why we haven't improved and our lower league finish this season is more proof if it was ever needed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You could argue we did improve last season. 60 odd points was a good haul. This season has been one long cluster **** from Sammon and Watt to the January 9.Shambles this season, along the way there have been some useful signings. Should be a bit more cash this season to alleviate some of the risk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 You could argue we did improve last season. 60 odd points was a good haul. This season has been one long cluster **** from Sammon and Watt to the January 9. Shambles this season, along the way there have been some useful signings. Should be a bit more cash this season to alleviate some of the risk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brux Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Demand for Sammon in China is huge. Ha.......ha, I see what you did there, nothing gets past me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 You could argue we did improve last season. 60 odd points was a good haul. This season has been one long cluster **** from Sammon and Watt to the January 9. Shambles this season, along the way there have been some useful signings. Should be a bit more cash this season to alleviate some of the risk There has been one useful signing. I'm intrigued as to how cash alleviates risk, can you explain the logic behind that please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ93 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Background info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ??Fourth official has indicated four minuets of added time added on ???as ??a MINIMUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 There has been one useful signing. I'm intrigued as to how cash alleviates risk, can you explain the logic behind that please?We should not be taking chances on unknown players like Rherras or players who have fallen such as Watt or Sammon. Players like Berra, hopefully seasoned pros will be affordable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 We should not be taking chances on unknown players like Rherras or players who have fallen such as Watt or Sammon. Players like Berra, hopefully seasoned pros will be affordable Lots of things fell in our favour for Berra to sign. We wont get many with his pedigree for the money on offer. Players like isma however who know the scottish game are the ones we will target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 We should not be taking chances on unknown players like Rherras or players who have fallen such as Watt or Sammon. Players like Berra, hopefully seasoned pros will be affordable In Cathro's article he mentioned that Berra signing was mainly due to the extenuating circumstances not finances. I would suggest that he may be the exception rather than the rule. Nothing is going to alleviate the risk of continuing with an unproven manager who has had a catastrophic first 6 months. It's undoubtedly a massive gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 In Cathro's article he mentioned that Berra signing was mainly due to the extenuating circumstances not finances. I would suggest that he may be the exception rather than the rule. Nothing is going to alleviate the risk of continuing with an unproven manager who has had a catastrophic first 6 months. It's undoubtedly a massive gamble. The whole set up is a massive gamble. I don't blame the coaches, they are if anything victims. Since when have Hearts fans ever been united over a manager, they always have detractors. I could be deeply disappointed but I live in hope some organisation might return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Transfers will always be a lottery because of the market we are in however we can mitigate some of that risk with the right blend of experience and gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie.nolan.5 Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 ??Fourth official has indicated four minuets of added time added on ???as ??a MINIMUM Brilliant [emoji23][emoji23]my brother who hadn't said a word the whole game soon came to life [emoji23] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 So is there only the OP who has said this rumour and nothing else has backed it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 In Cathro's article he mentioned that Berra signing was mainly due to the extenuating circumstances not finances. I would suggest that he may be the exception rather than the rule. Nothing is going to alleviate the risk of continuing with an unproven manager who has had a catastrophic first 6 months. It's undoubtedly a massive gamble. Not trying to defend Cathro whose neck is on the line if he does not make decent signings but In the interests of fairness I think Berra, in an interview, said he had spoken to IC and some Newcastle staff and all opinions of IC were favourable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Not trying to defend Cathro whose neck is on the line if he does not make decent signings but In the interests of fairness I think Berra, in an interview, said he had spoken to IC and some Newcastle staff and all opinions of IC were favourable. That ranks as an 'inconvenient truth' in JKB parlance and will be ignored almost completely. Not one protagonist has conceded any ground so far for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 That ranks as an 'inconvenient truth' in JKB parlance and will be ignored almost completely. Not one protagonist has conceded any ground so far for example. What do you want people to "concede ground" on precisely? Here's the thing. It doesn't really matter if Cathro is highly regarded and his training sessions are magnificent. He's judged on results alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 What do you want people to "concede ground" on precisely? Here's the thing. It doesn't really matter if Cathro is highly regarded and his training sessions are magnificent. He's judged on results alone. Exactly right, this is the transfer window that will define his team. If it's tits up then no place to hide with time to prepare. Reading between the lines, he has been looking at the summer window for months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Hearts Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Lots of things fell in our favour for Berra to sign. We wont get many with his pedigree for the money on offer. Players like isma however who know the scottish game are the ones we will target. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangkokHearts Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 In Cathro's article he mentioned that Berra signing was mainly due to the extenuating circumstances not finances. I would suggest that he may be the exception rather than the rule. Nothing is going to alleviate the risk of continuing with an unproven manager who has had a catastrophic first 6 months. It's undoubtedly a massive gamble. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 How did we get from that team to where we are now in 2 years. A terrible indictment of our signing policy and player management.And yet the same DOF is in charge of recruitment. Hopefully get this window right Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 What do you want people to "concede ground" on precisely? Here's the thing. It doesn't really matter if Cathro is highly regarded and his training sessions are magnificent. He's judged on results alone. Is that not what I said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 And yet the same DOF is in charge of recruitment. Hopefully get this window right Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Simple question - Should he interfere with H/Coach signings and not allow (some of) them OR - Should he back his H/Coach with signings the H/Coach identifies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Simple question - Should he interfere with H/Coach signings and not allow (some of) them OR - Should he back his H/Coach with signings the H/Coach identifies You're wasting your time trying to reason with them. There's a few oddballs on here who seem convinced that Levein is somehow to blame for Robbie and Cathro's atrocious signings. Some nutter even suggested that Robbie was a shill whom was paid to take the blame for CL's blunders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo_No5 Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 When signings/performances are good then it's down to the manager, when they're bad it's down to Levein. That's how it works isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 When signings/performances are good then it's down to the manager, when they're bad it's down to Levein. That's how it works isn't it? Sums things up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 Simple question - Should he interfere with H/Coach signings and not allow (some of) them OR - Should he back his H/Coach with signings the H/Coach identifies He should be working with the Head Coach and Scouts to monitor,to ensure due diligence is taken, to advise,To ensure that the players fit into how the club wants to play,that they are of of right character .that contracts are appropriate in length and cost..Leveins oversight should give continuity to team planning as his young head coaches pass through the "system".First team recruitment is probably the most important football activity at the club and the DOF should have a strong hand in it. If his job is to merely back the Head Coach then he is abdicating his role and we would be as well getting Jim Jeffries back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 He should be working with the Head Coach and Scouts to monitor,to ensure due diligence is taken, to advise,To ensure that the players fit into how the club wants to play,that they are of of right character .that contracts are appropriate in length and cost..Leveins oversight should give continuity to team planning as his young head coaches pass through the "system".First team recruitment is probably the most important football activity at the club and the DOF should have a strong hand in it. If his job is to merely back the Head Coach then he is abdicating his role and we would be as well getting Jim Jeffries back. I am confident that your first paragraph roughly describes what probably does happen but in the final analysis if agreement cannot be reached Should he pull rank and undermine the H/Coach etc OR Should he relax the reins and give the H/Coach his full support with signings of his (ICs) choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 I am confident that your first paragraph roughly describes what probably does happen but in the final analysis if agreement cannot be reached Should he pull rank and undermine the H/Coach etc OR Should he relax the reins and give the H/Coach his full support with signings of his (ICs) choice It's a team approach. I'm sure there's a bit of both and they all act like adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 I am confident that your first paragraph roughly describes what probably does happen but in the final analysis if agreement cannot be reached Should he pull rank and undermine the H/Coach etc OR Should he relax the reins and give the H/Coach his full support with signings of his (ICs) choice The DOF should have have the final say.The DOF model is about authority and a Head coach will know this from the start.so it should not be a case of undermining.If the Head coach puts up a strong case for a certain player who the DOF has doubts about then the DOF may go along with it .Senior managers are often faced with this scenario in different professions.If the Head coach gets it wrong its still the DOFs responsibility. Cathro has almost no experience of signing players so if I were DOF I would be holding the reins very tightly especially since further recruitment failures may cost not only the Head coach his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 The DOF should have have the final say.The DOF model is about authority and a Head coach will know this from the start.so it should not be a case of undermining.If the Head coach puts up a strong case for a certain player who the DOF has doubts about then the DOF may go along with it .Senior managers are often faced with this scenario in different professions.If the Head coach gets it wrong its still the DOFs responsibility. Cathro has almost no experience of signing players so if I were DOF I would be holding the reins very tightly especially since further recruitment failures may cost not only the Head coach his job. So are people wrong to blame Cathro for the January window signings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 So are people wrong to blame Cathro for the January window signings? The buck stops with the DOF .Its hard to imagine that he allowed an inexperienced Cathro a free hand and if he was daft enough to do this the responsibility still lies with him. These signings were a consequence of injuries and a flawed recruitment policy which predated Cathro and which the club say they are now changing.It was Cathros role to make the best of what he had and was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 The buck stops with the DOF .Its hard to imagine that he allowed an inexperienced Cathro a free hand and if he was daft enough to do this the responsibility still lies with him. These signings were a consequence of injuries and a flawed recruitment policy which predated Cathro and which the club say they are now changing.It was Cathros role to make the best of what he had and was given. Cathro - inexperienced head coach; VERY experienced with extremely talented players and a network of contacts of his own. It's quite clear our January signings were of a different nature from Neilson's last window. But no matter how many dullards want to remain apoplectic about January and blame somebody/Levein the truth of the matter is we lost robbie a month before the window and Cathro soon found out the squad he had couldn't play the way he really wanted and that it was short in places - so he asked for and got some players. Recognising it was a difficult window with a short lead-in there were a few short term deals - they have now left the building. Sorry, but it was basically a shit happens transfer window - with the ability to build a squad with more lead-in time during the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Cathro - inexperienced head coach; VERY experienced with extremely talented players and a network of contacts of his own. It's quite clear our January signings were of a different nature from Neilson's last window. But no matter how many dullards want to remain apoplectic about January and blame somebody/Levein the truth of the matter is we lost robbie a month before the window and Cathro soon found out the squad he had couldn't play the way he really wanted and that it was short in places - so he asked for and got some players. Recognising it was a difficult window with a short lead-in there were a few short term deals - they have now left the building. Sorry, but it was basically a shit happens transfer window - with the ability to build a squad with more lead-in time during the summer. So, do you mean by "cede ground" that we should just write off the past 5 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyJenkins Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 So, do you mean by "cede ground" that we should just write off the past 5 months? Yes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 When signings/performances are good then it's down to the manager, when they're bad it's down to Levein. That's how it works isn't it? The DOF should take the flack good or bad. It's life and that'the the burden of responsibility when you are at a senior level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Yes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So, where does the Cathro judgement period start then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Cathro - inexperienced head coach; VERY experienced with extremely talented players and a network of contacts of his own. It's quite clear our January signings were of a different nature from Neilson's last window. But no matter how many dullards want to remain apoplectic about January and blame somebody/Levein the truth of the matter is we lost robbie a month before the window and Cathro soon found out the squad he had couldn't play the way he really wanted and that it was short in places - so he asked for and got some players. Recognising it was a difficult window with a short lead-in there were a few short term deals - they have now left the building. Sorry, but it was basically a shit happens transfer window - with the ability to build a squad with more lead-in time during the summer. You rightly say the squad couldn't play the way Cathro wanted - the fact is, apart from his last game v Rangers, the squad weren't even playing the way Neilson wanted. We had an aeroplane flying above the ground confirming this. Something needed to be done and it was done with a mini cull. The usually poor January window and serious injury to 2 key players (one of whom was our top scorer) did us no favours and most of these newbies have left the building. This coming window will define our next season and if it shows no great signs of improvement in the first quarter then we can get our pitchforks out. If it works out well I hope some of the critics on here will have the good grace to own up and admit they had been a bit harsh and premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairyinthat Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 So, where does the Cathro judgement period start then? I would reckon the opening quarter of this coming season,seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I would reckon the opening quarter of this coming season,seems fair.Wish we had given John McGlynn the chance to sign his own players too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Wish we had given John McGlynn the chance to sign his own players too. Imo - had we not sacked McGlynn I reckon we'd have won the League Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Imo - had we not sacked McGlynn I reckon we'd have won the League Cup.Perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Imo - had we not sacked McGlynn I reckon we'd have won the League Cup. Mibbies aye, mibbies naw - but we are getting miles from the topic which is Osman Sow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Cathro - inexperienced head coach; VERY experienced with extremely talented players and a network of contacts of his own. It's quite clear our January signings were of a different nature from Neilson's last window. But no matter how many dullards want to remain apoplectic about January and blame somebody/Levein the truth of the matter is we lost robbie a month before the window and Cathro soon found out the squad he had couldn't play the way he really wanted and that it was short in places - so he asked for and got some players. Recognising it was a difficult window with a short lead-in there were a few short term deals - they have now left the building. Sorry, but it was basically a shit happens transfer window - with the ability to build a squad with more lead-in time during the summer. "Very experienced with extremely talented players" does not make a Head Coach "shit happens transfer window" was a direct result of injuries and a failed recruitment policy.The signings of Oshinawa and Rherras took place in Neilsons time,Their failure directly led to the signing of Sowah Budge in her recent statement acknowledged that recruitment policy was changing.No doubt in my mind that she held serious concerns about previous recruitment. How much rein the DOF gives to Cathro in signings is up to him.Whatever happens its the DOFs responsibility to ensure that recruitment meets the clubs needs.and that the Head Coach gets the best out of players recruited.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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