Indy Ref Part Deux

[Boris]

because unlike the SNP who refuse to govern, they will at least give you your moneys worth. don't try and smudge it with libs/labs/greens nonsense, as things stand we have a 2 party election, one being the sit on your hands(independence at all costs party) and the ****** tories.

 

Pretty sure the SNP govern at local level, which is what the local elections are about, and offer some opposition at Westminster.  It's not really about Holyrood, these elections, is it?

[Boris]

In one word - Corbyn

 

Unelectable, he's so far left he's almost bloody Communist! If Labour had a half decent Centre/Centre Left leader they might not win the election but they wouldn't get the horsing that's coming their way.

 

Is he?  Really?  I wouldn't say that, but that's how the media have perceived him.

[Doogz]

Because enough Labour voters have jumped ship?

 

Surely if anyone is to "blame" it is the Labour Party and to a degree the Lib Dems?  Why should the Tory party be the focal point for disaffected Unionists?

 

This is just my take on it:

Labour are suffering largely because of their choice of leader and Lib Dems are still suffering from being in coalition with the Tories so they must shoulder some of the blame for this but the SNP have used this to their advantage by practically dismissing these parties while promoting themselves as the only party that can protect Scotland from the Tories.

From my own point of view I'll wait to see the GE campaigns & the results from the local elections before I decide how I'll vote.

[Boris]

This is just my take on it:

Labour are suffering largely because of their choice of leader and Lib Dems are still suffering from being in coalition with the Tories so they must shoulder some of the blame for this but the SNP have used this to their advantage by practically dismissing these parties while promoting themselves as the only party that can protect Scotland from the Tories.

From my own point of view I'll wait to see the GE campaigns & the results from the local elections before I decide how I'll vote.

 

So what is the answer? VOTE TORY!

 

You couldn't make it up!

[reaths17]

So what is the answer? VOTE TORY!

 

You couldn't make it up!

boris they refuse to govern, so were living under tory policy now, if your against separation you've got nowt to lose voting for the bloody tories, thank you Nicola/alec and all the rest of the c u jimmy brigade.

[Boris]

boris they refuse to govern, so were living under tory policy now, if your against separation you've got nowt to lose voting for the bloody tories, thank you Nicola/alec and all the rest of the c u jimmy brigade.

 

You have far more to lose than you could possibly imagine.

[Doogz]

So what is the answer? VOTE TORY!

 

You couldn't make it up!

 

As I said above, the SNP were keen to play the 'We're the only party that can protect Scotland from the Tories' card to their advantage last time round and from looking at the polls I think that's helping the Tories this time round:

I agree with what you said earlier that independence should be addressed in a referendum not a General Election (Although, and I could be wrong about this haven't you also advocated UDI based on a GE result before too ?).

 

However, I do think there is an element of 'No' indy voters feeling that due to FTPT system the last election result didn't give a true reflection of their feelings on Indy. The SNP (& to a far smaller extent the Greens) pick up all the strong pro-indy votes where the strong Pro-Union vote was split across 3 parties. As a result they feel under-represented and will probably feel that the success for the SNP at the last GE gave them the confidence to push for Indy 2. Right now there seems to be a swing to the Conservatives being seen as the strongest pro-union voice this time around and I feel they will probably gather a larger chunk of the strong Pro-union vote as a result. Conservatives will also gain from any Pro-Brexit votes too.

This is just my opinion on why the Conservatives have seen a bounce in the polls up here ..... If not for the reasons above can you explain why you think this is happened ?

[Boris]

As I said above, the SNP were keen to play the 'We're the only party that can protect Scotland from the Tories' card to their advantage last time round and from looking at the polls I think that's helping the Tories this time round:

I agree with what you said earlier that independence should be addressed in a referendum not a General Election (Although, and I could be wrong about this haven't you also advocated UDI based on a GE result before too ?).

 

However, I do think there is an element of 'No' indy voters feeling that due to FTPT system the last election result didn't give a true reflection of their feelings on Indy. The SNP (& to a far smaller extent the Greens) pick up all the strong pro-indy votes where the strong Pro-Union vote was split across 3 parties. As a result they feel under-represented and will probably feel that the success for the SNP at the last GE gave them the confidence to push for Indy 2. Right now there seems to be a swing to the Conservatives being seen as the strongest pro-union voice this time around and I feel they will probably gather a larger chunk of the strong Pro-union vote as a result. Conservatives will also gain from any Pro-Brexit votes too.

This is just my opinion on why the Conservatives have seen a bounce in the polls up here ..... If not for the reasons above can you explain why you think this is happened ?

 

My point was more related to people not voting lib-dem because they went to bed with the Tories in 2010.  So if you are pissed off they went with the Tories, I fail to see the logic that voting Tory is somehow better!

 

I have advocated UDI in a GE before, but it won't be at this one.  If UDI is to be on the table then it essentially makes the GE a referendum.  In which case I suspect you would see all sorts of horse trading between Labour & Tory & Lib Dem to see who would be the official Union candidate.  IMHO, of course.

 

I don't disagree with you regards the Tory "bounce".  Thoose whose only concern is the union have most definitely gone to the dark side them.  And that's it.  I suspect that they are approaching, if not already arrived at, their high water mark.

 

And I'd also say that it somewhat undermines the Tory mandate that they will crow about if, which they will, as you and I seem to agree on, people are switching to them not out of political ideology, but because of a single issue.

 

Trouble is, if you elect them, you have to take them warts 'n' all!

[deesidejambo]

My point was more related to people not voting lib-dem because they went to bed with the Tories in 2010. So if you are pissed off they went with the Tories, I fail to see the logic that voting Tory is somehow better!

 

I have advocated UDI in a GE before, but it won't be at this one. If UDI is to be on the table then it essentially makes the GE a referendum. In which case I suspect you would see all sorts of horse trading between Labour & Tory & Lib Dem to see who would be the official Union candidate. IMHO, of course.

 

I don't disagree with you regards the Tory "bounce". Thoose whose only concern is the union have most definitely gone to the dark side them. And that's it. I suspect that they are approaching, if not already arrived at, their high water mark.

 

And I'd also say that it somewhat undermines the Tory mandate that they will crow about if, which they will, as you and I seem to agree on, people are switching to them not out of political ideology, but because of a single issue.

 

Trouble is, if you elect them, you have to take them warts 'n' all!

Such is life. People are prepared, as I am, to vote Tory purely tactically on this single issue.

 

Dont blame them. Nicola enacted Section 30, not the evil Tories.

 

She.

Should.

Have.

Waited.

[Boris]

Such is life. People are prepared, as I am, to vote Tory purely tactically on this single issue.

 

Dont blame them. Nicola enacted Section 30, not the evil Tories.

 

She.

Should.

Have.

Waited.

 

So when is the referendum going to happen then?  As far as I am aware it is merely a signal of intent.

 

BUt yeah, vote tory.  Reap what you sow and all that.

[AlphonseCapone]

the SNP have been in government for 10 years and refuse to govern, labour have climbed up their own erse and got lost.... which leaves the tories.... 1 + 1 = 2 it's no difficult, you shouldn't need to ask the bloody question.

Apparently I need ask twice since you never answeres the first time, are you saying the Tories are also shite?

[deesidejambo]

So when is the referendum going to happen then? As far as I am aware it is merely a signal of intent.

 

BUt yeah, vote tory. Reap what you sow and all that.

Im prepared to make that sacrifice. As are many others it appears.

 

The Ref will have to be before the next Holyrood election otherwise we are back at square one.

[Doogz]

My point was more related to people not voting lib-dem because they went to bed with the Tories in 2010.  So if you are pissed off they went with the Tories, I fail to see the logic that voting Tory is somehow better!

 

Yes - agree with you here and actually thinking on it Labour are probably still taking a hit for 'collaborating' with the Tories on 'Better Together'.

The only logic would be that some of the electorate have become so 'Anti-SNP' that they feel Tory are the best option to reflect that at the moment: I think there are opportunities for both Labour and/or Lib Dems to change this but they'll need good campaigns to achieve it. If either make gains at the local elections then the 'SNP-protest' vote could switch to them.

 

I have advocated UDI in a GE before, but it won't be at this one.  If UDI is to be on the table then it essentially makes the GE a referendum.  In which case I suspect you would see all sorts of horse trading between Labour & Tory & Lib Dem to see who would be the official Union candidate.  IMHO, of course.

I'm against UDI in a GE unless they bring in PR first - under FTPT there is to big a risk of a minority winning at the expense of the majority.

 

And I'd also say that it somewhat undermines the Tory mandate that they will crow about if, which they will, as you and I seem to agree on, people are switching to them not out of political ideology, but because of a single issue.

 

Trouble is, if you elect them, you have to take them warts 'n' all!

 

Again, I wouldn't disagree with this but the same argument could also be applied to the SNPs success in the previous elections where they have certainly focussed on 'Independence' or 'Protect Scotland from Tory austerity' messages. 

[AlphonseCapone]

I know you didn't ask me - but .....

My Dad who in my lifetime has always been an SNP supporter (to such an extent he actually represented the party at council elections in the late 70's) is sick of the lack of any real policy from the SNP in Scottish Government and the rush on Indy Ref 2. We were discussing this at the weekend and he confirmed he would still vote SNP at the local elections (because he knows the guys standing and thinks they're good councillors) but not in the general election and will vote 'No' at the next Indy Ref.

I don't think he'll go as far as switching his vote to Conservative - but I was quite shocked that he would no longer back the SNP at the GE or on Indy. Obviously, this is based just on the view of my Dad but if that's an indication of how someone who was strongly in favour of SNP and Indy up to 3 years ago feels now, combined with the issues with Labour largely being seen as a wasted vote in a lot of seats then it's no surprise to me that the Conservatives are currently polling well (by their standards) up here pushing the 'pro-union' & 'Anti-SNP' messages.

I appreciate that Doogz. The SNP are losing voters because for a start, being a Government for as long as they have been isn't easy and secondly, probably more importantly, the country is split along nationalist/unionist lines like we've never seen before. The SNP are obviously the party of most nationalists and the tories have positioned themselves as the part of most unionists.

 

My question to Reaths was down to the fact there is a strange split amongst unionist on here from what I can tell. There are some who are rejoicing in the tory revival in Scotland at certain points but also using it as a stick to beat the SNP with, look how bad you are at running the country folk will now vote tory in Scotland. Often both positions will come out from the same posters on different occasions depending on the way the argument is going.

 

It's either; disgraceful that the SNP have allowed the Tories to get a foothold (because Tories are bad etc etc etc) or the Tories becoming more prominent in Scotland is good because the SNP are ruining the country. There's a lot of inconsistency in people's arguments on this, half the folk I suspect are simply trolling on the matter.

 

At the end of the day, if folk want to vote Tory, so what, that's their choice, not the SNP's.

[Doogz]

At the end of the day, if folk want to vote Tory, so what, that's their choice, not the SNP's.

 

Yeah but I'd be much happier if people picked a party they wanted to win for positive reasons rather than selecting a party they don't really want to vote for just to try and stop another party winning for negative reasons.

The sad truth is that negative campaigning still seems to be the default option most of the time - probably because it can be so successful.

[reaths17]

I appreciate that Doogz. The SNP are losing voters because for a start, being a Government for as long as they have been isn't easy and secondly, probably more importantly, the country is split along nationalist/unionist lines like we've never seen before. The SNP are obviously the party of most nationalists and the tories have positioned themselves as the part of most unionists.

 

My question to Reaths was down to the fact there is a strange split amongst unionist on here from what I can tell. There are some who are rejoicing in the tory revival in Scotland at certain points but also using it as a stick to beat the SNP with, look how bad you are at running the country folk will now vote tory in Scotland. Often both positions will come out from the same posters on different occasions depending on the way the argument is going.

 

It's either; disgraceful that the SNP have allowed the Tories to get a foothold (because Tories are bad etc etc etc) or the Tories becoming more prominent in Scotland is good because the SNP are ruining the country. There's a lot of inconsistency in people's arguments on this, half the folk I suspect are simply trolling on the matter.

 

At the end of the day, if folk want to vote Tory, so what, that's their choice, not the SNP's.

all they have to do is "run the damned country" but naw......it was london that did it, its westminsters fault, the english keep voting for the tories, its labours fault for being shit.

 

nobody most didn't vote for them to sit on their hands and whinge about the english

[Psychedelicropcircle]

The snp FORCING voters to vote Tory. No doubt when they decimate your local services it'll be SNPBAD#

[Psychedelicropcircle]

all they have to do is "run the damned country" but naw......it was london that did it, its westminsters fault, the english keep voting for the tories, its labours fault for being shit.

 

nobody most didn't vote for them to sit on their hands and whinge about the english

Federalise the UK then all responsibility goes to Holyrood. As a 3rd option in an indyref it would romp home. I know this, you probably do too as does the SNP & the Tories if they care about the union why haven't optioned this?

 

I'll answer because the longer we vote SNP in numbers the longer the tories have power.

 

And probably the longer the tories are in power the more appealing the SNP look (imho)

[deesidejambo]

Federalise the UK then all responsibility goes to Holyrood. As a 3rd option in an indyref it would romp home. I know this, you probably do too as does the SNP & the Tories if they care about the union why haven't optioned this?

 

I'll answer because the longer we vote SNP in numbers the longer the tories have power.

 

And probably the longer the tories are in power the more appealing the SNP look (imho)

I'm with this. SLAB should push the federal option as an acceptable middle ground. I suspect and hope they go for this in their Manifesto.

[JamboX2]

The claim was that the SNP have asked the Greens to withdraw, they have not and would not ask any other party not to stand. It is another misrepresentation.. Shepherd said they should consider where they stand. He is an individual expressing an opinion. An opinion that is irrelevant because the decision on whether or not to stand lies with individual Green branches. They will be having this conversation anyway.

Agree. But he's a powerful voice within the party. This isn't Fulton McGreggor MSP. It's Tommy Shepherd who's standing is much higher and far more influential than most. That adds weight to it.

 

I think it is a good idea for the Greens to advance their aims through the SNP and an independent Scotland. There is absolutely no chance of any meaningful green agenda being enacted in the U.K. as a whole.

They need to advance their own cause and make their own case for independence. Why tie yourself to the mast of the SNP? When the music stops with them it'll pull you down too. Much like the Irish Greens with Finna Fail pre-crash.

 

Their is the risk also that they lose their character and separate identity by rubber stamping SNP local government cuts say you can't go about demanding more money. It's the Lib-Dem coalition issue again.

 

I think the UK has been better than most on the Green agenda too: subsidised wind farms, off shore wind, investments in reasearch for renewables. All largely positive imo.

 

I also think it has not been good for Labour to power share with the Tories. They have now lost their identity and when their leader tries to restore their principles they turn on him. THe SNP and the Greens have a clear identity despite working co-operatively at times. It's an association that has worked well for both.

Labour, the Tories and Liberals have all worked well with the SNP on a range of issues since they assumed office in 2007. It's not solely the Greens who have done so. However, they are leftist party for green issues. That's their raison d'etre. They should not invest too much or more efforts into the SNP led indy campaign for a fear on my part that they become a party if leftist independence not a party of sustainably and a liberal society. That's what they stand to lose.

 

I think Labour stsyed true to many of theor principles in office. They merely moved to a position in line with the centre left across the western world which was more centrist and less statist than wholesale nationalisation. Poverty was drastically cut in their recent spell in office and welfare increased. Yes there were errors but what governmentis without that? But largely true to Labour values.

 

Corbyn's issues are far more engrained and deep seated with the party's far left and the battles of the 1980s. Foot never embraced the IRA for example. But he's UK leader till he's not and that's that imo.

 

I can only imagine that Labour are applying that old adage that you should keep your friends close and your enemies even closer.

Or doing what Shepherd is calling for? Tactical voting on constitutional lines?

[coconut doug]

The SNP have no clear policies and have abdicated responsibility for running the country since the last Holyrood election to go all out for Indy Ref 2.

 

We are now facing a series of strikes in further education at a time when people sit their end of year exams, and the NHS up here is a shambles, but never mind eh, we can blame the tories for the rape clause that we don't want to use our powers to overrule.

 

 

There is no question for which the answer is -  Vote conservative.  Our NHS is not a shambles and our public services are in better shape than in England. I doubt very much our students will be adversely affected by any FE strike.

 

 

Imagining that the Tories are going to make life better for the poor and disabled and build a fairer society is frankly ridiculous.  I remember Thatcher which was bad for me and millions of others but this lot, are much worse. You will be supporting a party that passes people with terminal illnesses fit for work and has caused thousands of deaths https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/27/death-britains-benefits-system-fit-for-work-safety-net  Perhaps that will put the trifle of the rape clause into some perspective for you. We can quite clearly blame the Tories for this, can't we?

 

You can vote for a party that currently has a Foreign Secretary who is sabre rattling for Trump for all he is worth despite taking a totally opposite view on Syria a few weeks ago. A man described in the lowest of terms by Paddy Ashdown on national TV. You can vote for a woman who thinks strong and stable leadership is laughing inanely at her own vitriol in the U.K. parliament. A woman who presided over the biggest increase in immigration despite making it a priority to bring it down when she was Home Secretary. A woman who left England's prison system in total chaos and who spent hundreds of millions on IT systems for border security that didn't work and had to be abandoned. A woman who despite her all too obvious inhumanity claims to commune with god. A woman who wants to vet television programmes before they are aired. A woman who wants to remove many of our most important civil rights and who wants to further reduce the rights of Trades Unions. A woman who put vans on the streets telling immigrants to go home.

 

She and Johnson can't grovel any lower to Trump. Announcing a full state visit for him a few days after he got into office is an act of desperation that has already failed. Trump has moved on to the EU where the important trade deals are to be done. What does UK have left? Only the ability to precipitate acts of violence on America's behalf and who better to do it than international laughing stock Boris Johnson. Look at the TV coverage, May is shunned in Europe. The UK will be reamed in negotiation with the likes of Davies and Fox representing us. Businesses are already leaving and relocating to Europe. Redundancies have stated. It's like 1979 all over again only this time it will be much,much worse. What did May do to support the U.K.s EU membership? A lot less than Corbyn that's what. She took advantage of the situation for personal gain. These people have little feeling for their country. In fact many have little feeling at all. You can put your faith in them though if you think that's right. 

 

We have an election coming up and you can vote Tory if you like obviously. You should though be aware of the implications of so doing. The Press won't help though as  she often doesn't allow questions or even let the awkward Journos attend events. She wont be anywhere near any members of the public and wont take part in a leader's debate. We all know why, already the three sentence sound bite is wearing. She can't think on her feet and struggles during PMQ.s even with prepared answers. 

 

You might think that this counts for nothing in comparison to the faux outrage, as you see it, on the rape clause, or the 3 month delay opening the new Forth Bridge. Vote Tory if you like but don't be surprised when things get a lot worse very quickly, some of us have been there before.

[coconut doug]

Agree. But he's a powerful voice within the party. This isn't Fulton McGreggor MSP. It's Tommy Shepherd who's standing is much higher and far more influential than most. That adds weight to it.

 

 

They need to advance their own cause and make their own case for independence. Why tie yourself to the mast of the SNP? When the music stops with them it'll pull you down too. Much like the Irish Greens with Finna Fail pre-crash.

 

Their is the risk also that they lose their character and separate identity by rubber stamping SNP local government cuts say you can't go about demanding more money. It's the Lib-Dem coalition issue again.

 

I think the UK has been better than most on the Green agenda too: subsidised wind farms, off shore wind, investments in reasearch for renewables. All largely positive imo.

 

 

Labour, the Tories and Liberals have all worked well with the SNP on a range of issues since they assumed office in 2007. It's not solely the Greens who have done so. However, they are leftist party for green issues. That's their raison d'etre. They should not invest too much or more efforts into the SNP led indy campaign for a fear on my part that they become a party if leftist independence not a party of sustainably and a liberal society. That's what they stand to lose.

 

I think Labour stsyed true to many of theor principles in office. They merely moved to a position in line with the centre left across the western world which was more centrist and less statist than wholesale nationalisation. Poverty was drastically cut in their recent spell in office and welfare increased. Yes there were errors but what governmentis without that? But largely true to Labour values.

 

Corbyn's issues are far more engrained and deep seated with the party's far left and the battles of the 1980s. Foot never embraced the IRA for example. But he's UK leader till he's not and that's that imo.

 

 

Or doing what Shepherd is calling for? Tactical voting on constitutional lines?

Nailed in the first sentence.  https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

[AlphonseCapone]

all they have to do is "run the damned country" but naw......it was london that did it, its westminsters fault, the english keep voting for the tories, its labours fault for being shit.

 

nobody most didn't vote for them to sit on their hands and whinge about the english

You're just really ranty tbh, not really making any coherent arguments.

[Boris]

There is no question for which the answer is - Vote conservative. Our NHS is not a shambles and our public services are in better shape than in England. I doubt very much our students will be adversely affected by any FE strike.

 

 

Imagining that the Tories are going to make life better for the poor and disabled and build a fairer society is frankly ridiculous. I remember Thatcher which was bad for me and millions of others but this lot, are much worse. You will be supporting a party that passes people with terminal illnesses fit for work and has caused thousands of deaths https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/27/death-britains-benefits-system-fit-for-work-safety-net Perhaps that will put the trifle of the rape clause into some perspective for you. We can quite clearly blame the Tories for this, can't we?

 

You can vote for a party that currently has a Foreign Secretary who is sabre rattling for Trump for all he is worth despite taking a totally opposite view on Syria a few weeks ago. A man described in the lowest of terms by Paddy Ashdown on national TV. You can vote for a woman who thinks strong and stable leadership is laughing inanely at her own vitriol in the U.K. parliament. A woman who presided over the biggest increase in immigration despite making it a priority to bring it down when she was Home Secretary. A woman who left England's prison system in total chaos and who spent hundreds of millions on IT systems for border security that didn't work and had to be abandoned. A woman who despite her all too obvious inhumanity claims to commune with god. A woman who wants to vet television programmes before they are aired. A woman who wants to remove many of our most important civil rights and who wants to further reduce the rights of Trades Unions. A woman who put vans on the streets telling immigrants to go home.

 

She and Johnson can't grovel any lower to Trump. Announcing a full state visit for him a few days after he got into office is an act of desperation that has already failed. Trump has moved on to the EU where the important trade deals are to be done. What does UK have left? Only the ability to precipitate acts of violence on America's behalf and who better to do it than international laughing stock Boris Johnson. Look at the TV coverage, May is shunned in Europe. The UK will be reamed in negotiation with the likes of Davies and Fox representing us. Businesses are already leaving and relocating to Europe. Redundancies have stated. It's like 1979 all over again only this time it will be much,much worse. What did May do to support the U.K.s EU membership? A lot less than Corbyn that's what. She took advantage of the situation for personal gain. These people have little feeling for their country. In fact many have little feeling at all. You can put your faith in them though if you think that's right.

 

We have an election coming up and you can vote Tory if you like obviously. You should though be aware of the implications of so doing. The Press won't help though as she often doesn't allow questions or even let the awkward Journos attend events. She wont be anywhere near any members of the public and wont take part in a leader's debate. We all know why, already the three sentence sound bite is wearing. She can't think on her feet and struggles during PMQ.s even with prepared answers.

 

You might think that this counts for nothing in comparison to the faux outrage, as you see it, on the rape clause, or the 3 month delay opening the new Forth Bridge. Vote Tory if you like but don't be surprised when things get a lot worse very quickly, some of us have been there before.

[Space Mackerel]

Such is life. People are prepared, as I am, to vote Tory purely tactically on this single issue.

 

Dont blame them. Nicola enacted Section 30, not the evil Tories.

 

She.

Should.

Have.

Waited.

Voting Tory is not going to stop Indy ref 2.

 

Ruth Davidson is hoodwinking the lot of you.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[deesidejambo]

Voting Tory is not going to stop Indy ref 2.

 

Ruth Davidson is hoodwinking the lot of you.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

In a way you are correct - the Tories are indeed using this as a card to play to get votes.

 

Maybe I'll go LibDem after all.

[maroonlegions]

In a way you are correct - the Tories are indeed using this as a card to play to get votes.

 

Maybe I'll go LibDem after all.

 You dont know what the feck you want eh.   Sacrificial "jumping" just to keep the nasty SNP out. 

 

Read the below post from "coconut doug" and then rethink  you're "evil Tories" remark you have so often referred too, takes on a more realistic sinister meaning eh.

The Tories have orchestrated and carried out some brutal and un-compassionate  polices and attacks on the non scroungers of our society, yes those non scroungers  that really need welfare help and social care and all in some cases  just to make a fast buck for their rich mates in the City of London.

 

 

There is no question for which the answer is - Vote conservative. Our NHS is not a shambles and our public services are in better shape than in England. I doubt very much our students will be adversely affected by any FE strike.

 

 

Imagining that the Tories are going to make life better for the poor and disabled and build a fairer society is frankly ridiculous. I remember Thatcher which was bad for me and millions of others but this lot, are much worse. You will be supporting a party that passes people with terminal illnesses fit for work and has caused thousands of deaths https://www.theguard...work-safety-net Perhaps that will put the trifle of the rape clause into some perspective for you. We can quite clearly blame the Tories for this, can't we?

 

You can vote for a party that currently has a Foreign Secretary who is sabre rattling for Trump for all he is worth despite taking a totally opposite view on Syria a few weeks ago. A man described in the lowest of terms by Paddy Ashdown on national TV. You can vote for a woman who thinks strong and stable leadership is laughing inanely at her own vitriol in the U.K. parliament. A woman who presided over the biggest increase in immigration despite making it a priority to bring it down when she was Home Secretary. A woman who left England's prison system in total chaos and who spent hundreds of millions on IT systems for border security that didn't work and had to be abandoned. A woman who despite her all too obvious inhumanity claims to commune with god. A woman who wants to vet television programmes before they are aired. A woman who wants to remove many of our most important civil rights and who wants to further reduce the rights of Trades Unions. A woman who put vans on the streets telling immigrants to go home.

 

She and Johnson can't grovel any lower to Trump. Announcing a full state visit for him a few days after he got into office is an act of desperation that has already failed. Trump has moved on to the EU where the important trade deals are to be done. What does UK have left? Only the ability to precipitate acts of violence on America's behalf and who better to do it than international laughing stock Boris Johnson. Look at the TV coverage, May is shunned in Europe. The UK will be reamed in negotiation with the likes of Davies and Fox representing us. Businesses are already leaving and relocating to Europe. Redundancies have stated. It's like 1979 all over again only this time it will be much,much worse. What did May do to support the U.K.s EU membership? A lot less than Corbyn that's what. She took advantage of the situation for personal gain. These people have little feeling for their country. In fact many have little feeling at all. You can put your faith in them though if you think that's right. 

 

We have an election coming up and you can vote Tory if you like obviously. You should though be aware of the implications of so doing. The Press won't help though as she often doesn't allow questions or even let the awkward Journos attend events. She wont be anywhere near any members of the public and wont take part in a leader's debate. We all know why, already the three sentence sound bite is wearing. She can't think on her feet and struggles during PMQ.s even with prepared answers. 

 

You might think that this counts for nothing in comparison to the faux outrage, as you see it, on the rape clause, or the 3 month delay opening the new Forth Bridge. Vote Tory if you like but don't be surprised when things get a lot worse very quickly, some of us have been there before.

 

 

 Outstanding post by "coconut doug", a true reflection of what most humanitarian and compassionate people are seeing, living and experiencing Thatcher was bad enough but   imagine what the  vulnerable  are experiencing from this present Tory junta.   

[deesidejambo]

 You dont know what the feck you want eh.   Sacrificial "jumping" just to keep the nasty SNP out. 

 

Read the below post from "coconut doug" and then rethink  you're "evil Tories" remark you have so often referred too, takes on a more realistic sinister meaning eh.

The Tories have orchestrated and carried out some brutal and un-compassionate  polices and attacks on the non scroungers of our society, yes those non scroungers  that really need welfare help and social care and all in some cases  just to make a fast buck for their rich mates in the City of London.

 

 

There is no question for which the answer is - Vote conservative. Our NHS is not a shambles and our public services are in better shape than in England. I doubt very much our students will be adversely affected by any FE strike.

 

 

Imagining that the Tories are going to make life better for the poor and disabled and build a fairer society is frankly ridiculous. I remember Thatcher which was bad for me and millions of others but this lot, are much worse. You will be supporting a party that passes people with terminal illnesses fit for work and has caused thousands of deaths https://www.theguard...work-safety-net Perhaps that will put the trifle of the rape clause into some perspective for you. We can quite clearly blame the Tories for this, can't we?

 

You can vote for a party that currently has a Foreign Secretary who is sabre rattling for Trump for all he is worth despite taking a totally opposite view on Syria a few weeks ago. A man described in the lowest of terms by Paddy Ashdown on national TV. You can vote for a woman who thinks strong and stable leadership is laughing inanely at her own vitriol in the U.K. parliament. A woman who presided over the biggest increase in immigration despite making it a priority to bring it down when she was Home Secretary. A woman who left England's prison system in total chaos and who spent hundreds of millions on IT systems for border security that didn't work and had to be abandoned. A woman who despite her all too obvious inhumanity claims to commune with god. A woman who wants to vet television programmes before they are aired. A woman who wants to remove many of our most important civil rights and who wants to further reduce the rights of Trades Unions. A woman who put vans on the streets telling immigrants to go home.

 

She and Johnson can't grovel any lower to Trump. Announcing a full state visit for him a few days after he got into office is an act of desperation that has already failed. Trump has moved on to the EU where the important trade deals are to be done. What does UK have left? Only the ability to precipitate acts of violence on America's behalf and who better to do it than international laughing stock Boris Johnson. Look at the TV coverage, May is shunned in Europe. The UK will be reamed in negotiation with the likes of Davies and Fox representing us. Businesses are already leaving and relocating to Europe. Redundancies have stated. It's like 1979 all over again only this time it will be much,much worse. What did May do to support the U.K.s EU membership? A lot less than Corbyn that's what. She took advantage of the situation for personal gain. These people have little feeling for their country. In fact many have little feeling at all. You can put your faith in them though if you think that's right. 

 

We have an election coming up and you can vote Tory if you like obviously. You should though be aware of the implications of so doing. The Press won't help though as she often doesn't allow questions or even let the awkward Journos attend events. She wont be anywhere near any members of the public and wont take part in a leader's debate. We all know why, already the three sentence sound bite is wearing. She can't think on her feet and struggles during PMQ.s even with prepared answers. 

 

You might think that this counts for nothing in comparison to the faux outrage, as you see it, on the rape clause, or the 3 month delay opening the new Forth Bridge. Vote Tory if you like but don't be surprised when things get a lot worse very quickly, some of us have been there before.

 

 

 Outstanding post by "coconut doug", a true reflection of what most humanitarian and compassionate people are seeing, living and experiencing Thatcher was bad enough but   imagine what the  vulnerable  are experiencing from this present Tory junta.   

Yawn.         Aliens getting to you?

[maroonlegions]

Evil Tories are not hiding it anymore it seems, be afraid be very afraid.

 

New Tory slogan ?We?re going to ******* kill you all? not putting people off

The controversial new slogan of the Tory party ? ?We?re going to ******* kill you all? doesn?t appear to have put off any potential voters.

NEWSTHUMP.COM

 

 

   

[Zibi]

**** the Brits.

[Nookie Bear]

**** the Brits.

Ah, this must be the new, politically engaged, Scotland we hear so much about.

[JamboX2]

Nailed in the first sentence. https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

Eh... think that's a very lacking summary of a situation. I do think there is an underlying liberal attitude within the "Blairite" Labour members. But why call them Blairites? They've always been more liberal members of Labour than the socialist hard left. Morrison, Attlee, Gaitskell, Jenkins, Crossman, Castle, Williams, Hattersly, Brown, Cook, Smith, Blair... all variations of the centrist and liberal tedency of the party.

[Space Mackerel]

Brutal brutal news, the oil discovery West of Shetland is worth up to 8 billion barrels now!!

 

https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/north-sea/137686/west-shetland-uk-super-resource-now-cards/

[deesidejambo]

Brutal brutal news, the oil discovery West of Shetland is worth up to 8 billion barrels now!!

 

https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/north-sea/137686/west-shetland-uk-super-resource-now-cards/

This just shows how gullible you are. The Clair Ridge project cannot possibly produce 8 billion barrels. The reserves held by BP; the field Operator, are about 800 million barrels.

 

The official oil reserves held by the OGA for the whole of the UK, including England is currently 4.2 billion. I will post a link to the official U.K. Reserves report if you want, but it will just show how thick you really are.

[aussieh]

This just shows how gullible you are. The Clair Ridge project cannot possibly produce 8 billion barrels. The reserves held by BP; the field Operator, are about 800 million barrels.

 

The official oil reserves held by the OGA for the whole of the UK, including England is currently 4.2 billion. I will post a link to the official U.K. Reserves report if you want, but it will just show how thick you really are.

Aye, heard it.

Boo boo dry yer eyes.

 

I see little miss may has totally Fecked this election already. Get in!!!

 

Anti EU in England, Anti Indy in Scotland, And the good old EBC is helping her along the way. No challenge to her and her government's record, or what they plan to do in 5 years of Parliament. While the northern division fake news #SNPBAD every two seconds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I nearly forgot.

 

 

 

Tick Tick!!!

[GBJambo]

Aye, heard it.

Boo boo dry yer eyes.

 

I see little miss may has totally Fecked this election already. Get in!!!

 

Anti EU in England, Anti Indy in Scotland, And the good old EBC is helping her along the way. No challenge to her and her government's record, or what they plan to do in 5 years of Parliament. While the northern division fake news #SNPBAD every two seconds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I nearly forgot.

 

 

 

Tick Tick!!!

Still posting your same brand of nonsense after your ban

[deesidejambo]

Aye, heard it.

Boo boo dry yer eyes.

 

I see little miss may has totally Fecked this election already. Get in!!!

 

Anti EU in England, Anti Indy in Scotland, And the good old EBC is helping her along the way. No challenge to her and her government's record, or what they plan to do in 5 years of Parliament. While the northern division fake news #SNPBAD every two seconds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I nearly forgot.

 

 

 

Tick Tick!!!

That helped me make my mind up. Was planning to vote for an Independent candidate for Council but I'll vote Tory now just to annoy you.

[aussieh]

That helped me make my mind up. Was planning to vote for an Independent candidate for Council but I'll vote Tory now just to annoy you.

I couldn't give a feck what you do. Nationalism is fine as long it's not Scottish, isn't that right my dear dee. Far right!

[aussieh]

Still posting your same brand of nonsense after your ban

Oh,BTW. Any claims or accusations thrown in my direction will fae now, be reported.

Bans you say, for nothing, well, time I played you and your fellow unionist cry babies game.

[reaths17]

Aye, heard it.

Boo boo dry yer eyes.

 

I see little miss may has totally Fecked this election already. Get in!!!

 

Anti EU in England, Anti Indy in Scotland, And the good old EBC is helping her along the way. No challenge to her and her government's record, or what they plan to do in 5 years of Parliament. While the northern division fake news #SNPBAD every two seconds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I nearly forgot.

 

 

 

Tick Tick!!!

challenge what, you've sat and supported a government that has done FA for 10 years then went around this board(and god knows where else) praising them for doing nowt..........where's the deeds/challenge.

 

as for what their plans are, maybe they could try and make some sense out of the SNP's white paper and use that.

[Space Mackerel]

challenge what, you've sat and supported a government that has done FA for 10 years then went around this board(and god knows where else) praising them for doing nowt..........where's the deeds/challenge.

 

as for what their plans are, maybe they could try and make some sense out of the SNP's white paper and use that.

David Cameron was routinely criticised in the media for doing absolutely nothing when he was in No 10.

 

I'd be careful what you say, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones eh.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[aussieh]

challenge what, you've sat and supported a government that has done FA for 10 years then went around this board(and god knows where else) praising them for doing nowt..........where's the deeds/challenge.

 

as for what their plans are, maybe they could try and make some sense out of the SNP's white paper and use that.

The SNP have done plenty.

 

This, unlike you is my only social media thing.

[GBJambo]

Oh,BTW. Any claims or accusations thrown in my direction will fae now, be reported.

Bans you say, for nothing, well, time I played you and your fellow unionist cry babies game.

I don't give a ****! Lol

Btw I never reported you and I doubt anyone else did. Mods were just doing their jobs

[GBJambo]

The SNP have done plenty.

 

This, unlike you is my only social media thing.

"Done plenty"

[deesidejambo]

"Done plenty"

Well give them some slack.    Despite no legislation for a year they are still plodding along with their wonderful Named Paedo bill.

[Space Mackerel]

Well give them some slack. Despite no legislation for a year they are still plodding along with their wonderful Named Paedo bill.

Waiting on the Scottish percentages please. Anytime you're ready.

[Radio Ga Ga]

Looking forward to the tears and spotters on the 9th June, as I said on a previous thread, it's going to be feckin delicious, day off booked to watch it unfold and the Snatz squirming, lovely jubely

[Space Mackerel]

Looking forward to the tears and spotters on the 9th June, as I said on a previous thread, it's going to be feckin delicious, day off booked to watch it unfold and the Snatz squirming, lovely jubely

54 seats, another landslide like today.

 

23% of the vote maybe 24 if you're lucky.

 

When you bringing out the Queens First 11 btw?

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Looking forward to the tears and spotters on the 9th June, as I said on a previous thread, it's going to be feckin delicious, day off booked to watch it unfold and the Snatz squirming, lovely jubely

Can't wait to see among (hopefully at lot of others) Messrs Robertson, Wishart and Nicholson squirm when the returning officer struts his stuff...

[Space Mackerel]

Can't wait to see among (hopefully at lot of others) Messrs Robertson, Wishart and Nicholson squirm when the returning officer struts his stuff...

They can always switch regions like Ruth did from Glasgow to Edinburgh Central and get in that way.

 

Happy with that?