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Space Mackerel
2 minutes ago, Ministry said:

Out of interest how much revenue do you need to be turning over to have to pay VAT? Don’t know if your a sole trader, but I thought for people turning over a relatively small amount they didn’t have to pay VAT?. I could be wrong but think it rings a bell. 

 

If your sales are under 85 grand you don’t have to register for VAT. 

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1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

If your sales are under 85 grand you don’t have to register for VAT. 

Ah yeah, I thought it was something like that. 

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Space Mackerel
11 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

No they avoid corporate tax which is a tax on their profits. They can’t avoid VAT or whatever other tax is brought in to replace income tax. A sales tax like America for example. 

I was just throwing it out there anyway im

not getting specific on the mechanics of it. 

 

Anyway, think they’ve brought in that “live timing” or whatever it’s called system now where you have to upload your tax etc every week for most businesses. 

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Space Mackerel
5 minutes ago, Ministry said:

Ah yeah, I thought it was something like that. 

 

Ive had my pal make up a basic annual spreadsheet if you want a copy, it automatically calculates VAT etc and has an extra page at end that does all your monthly summaries and total sales? 

Edited by Space Mackerel
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Space Mackerel
6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Nothing to do with our discussion.

 

I wouldn’t necessarily be against your second para.

 

Glad we agree on something :)

 

My point was, if you want to make “business” accountable or even set taxation rates then I gave you an example where serious corruption by the 4 main global auditors is present. No thanks to that. 

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Space Mackerel
1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

 

On first para who would have thought that happen, other than FTH :-)

2 things now, it’s a miracle ?

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47 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

An open letter to deeside after he got all confused by the literature from Tory, SLAB and Lib Dem HQ’s and thought the snap GE election was an actual vote on indy2? ?

 

 

Thanks for your concern. My dad is comfortable at the moment.

 

I do hope old chumpside is counting those pennies though as he is going to need them when the utopia he votes for comes to fruition.

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Space Mackerel
1 hour ago, Sraman said:

 

Thanks for your concern. My dad is comfortable at the moment.

 

I do hope old chumpside is counting those pennies though as he is going to need them when the utopia he votes for comes to fruition.

 

I think our best bet is to count these pennies and launch them along with Halibuton and BAe Syrems, that should make a good return on your investment. 

 

May I suggest a Storm Shadow missile, classic taste from the left overs of the early 2000’s

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Thunderstruck
3 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

An open letter to deeside after he got all confused by the literature from Tory, SLAB and Lib Dem HQ’s and thought the snap GE election was an actual vote on indy2? ?

 

 

Did you lose your copy of the SNP Manifesto for that election?

 

It wasn’t an “actual vote” but it was made perfectly clear that voting for the SNP might lead to one...

 

Refering to the vote in the Scottish Parliament in March 2017 (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/28/scottish-parliament-votes-for-second-independence-referendum-nicola-sturgeon ) the manifesto makes clear that a vote for SNP would lead to a second referendum:-

 



The recent vote of Scotland’s national Parliament has underlined that mandate. If the SNP wins a majority of Scottish seats in this election, that would complete a triple lock, further reinforcing the democratic mandate which already exists.

 

It doesn’t matter what you or any other Nat thinks that the manifesto did or did not contain, the majority of the electorate formed its own opinion and voted accordingly, just as happened in May 16. .

 

On the back of that earlier Scottish election, the overall result in terms of both number of seats and share of vote must have been a real kick in the proverbials, underlining that they didn’t really have a “democratic mandate”. 

 

That is why the second referendum plan was punted into the long grass a mere fortnight after the General Election. 

 

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shaun.lawson
22 hours ago, Sraman said:

As I say, don't blame the older generation. It's not their fault. It's the government. You know exactly how it works, divide and rule then lay the blame at anyone's door except their's.

 

I've chopped off the rest of it for reasons of space - but yours was a hugely interesting, thought-provoking post, Sraman. Thanks: it was refreshing. :thumb:

 

I don't think what you said quite cuts it though. On two counts:

 

1. Our ridiculous voting system has the effect of wildly skewing the whole of politics towards the right. You mentioned Labour "shitting themselves" - well, no. Labour had to move rightwards because of the SDP's formation: which effectively created two parties on the left, facing only one on the right. If we had PR, this would've been fine; instead, FPTP means that left-leaning candidates standing against each other only help the right.

 

So much so that at the 2015 general election, there were effectively 4.5 parties left of centre (Labour, the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Greens, and the traditionally Labour-voting half of UKIP), and just 1.5 parties to the right (the Tories, and the traditionally Tory-voting half of UKIP). So the left cut each other's throats, while the right benefited. The Tories got a Parliamentary majority despite, as a share of everyone eligible to vote, only doing 2% better than in 1997. And that's absurd. 

 

In my view, there has never been a majority (50% or more) in Britain in favour of neoliberalism - but the voting system means it's what we've got. That system focuses on no more than 100,000 swing voters: most of whom are property owners, so both parties have been scared even to build new homes, for fear of pushing values down. I couldn't agree more that the resulting economy is a pack of cards; it's practically a Ponzi scheme.

 

2. But even allowing for the above, and what you said about how owning property effectively trapped so many people into relying on the Tories, this still doesn't explain in any way why so many old people:

 

- Voted to leave the EU

 

- Voted for austerity

 

- Agree with Theresa May's "hostile environment" towards immigrants

 

- Have ignorant, condescending views towards practically anyone younger than them

 

- And in a recent poll, actually supported the reintroduction of national service.

 

It's not just their wealth. It's their disgusting social attitudes and palpable lack of regard for anyone except themselves. 

 

My position is simple. If you're poor, vote for a better life for yourself. If you're rich, vote for a better life for others. If enough people fail to do that, society gradually begins to implode.

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shaun.lawson
14 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Thought so.    No vote from me.

 

Anyone else?    Plenty more cut and pastes but no counter proposals.

 

Not too far from what you and Lord BJ have suggested!

 

- Like him, I'd means test the state pension (and because of how many would lose it, would also raise it for those without the means to fend for themselves)

 

- I'd scrap Osborne's disgusting changes to the IHT threshold, but leave it as it is beyond that. 325K - I wouldn't take it down to 100K as you suggest.

 

- I'd take everyone earning below the personal allowance threshold out of NI contributions, and fund this through both your proposed 45% income tax on over 80K, and 50% on over 150K (or lower, depending on the maths)

 

- Land value tax. Very important, as this would do more than anything to sort the property market out

 

- Build, build, build: via a national investment bank. And yes, I'd borrow to do so if necessary, because interest rates have been historically low for decades

 

- I'd ban obligatory zero hours contracts (but they'd still be optional for anyone who preferred them)

 

- Financial transactions / Tobin Tax for the City

 

- I'd start experiments with Universal Basic Income, with a view to it replacing both pensions and the personal allowance in the medium term

 

- Rent cap, based on market rates

 

- Bedroom tax and removal of housing benefit for under-25s scrapped

 

- I'd ban mortgages for anyone who already has two properties

 

- I'd legislate to ensure all homes are fit for human habitation, prosecute and imprison landlords who did not comply

 

- I'd legislate to ensure that rental contracts of 6 months have an automatic option to renew at the same rent for another 6 months, except in cases of non-payment of rent, antisocial behaviour or the property not being looked after by the tenant

 

- I'd increase both the minimum wage and JobSeekers' Allowance

 

- I'd close all offshore tax avoidance loopholes, hire many more HMRC staff, and instruct them to focus most of their resources on that, not on low-hanging fruit. This would also involve simplifying the tax code and threatening accountants with prosecution if they fail to obey the spirit of the new code.

 

- I'd hire many more police officers, doctors, nurses, paramedics and firefighters, and raise their pay

 

- And my government, having included it in our manifesto, would immediately implement PR.

 

Perhaps some of this isn't possible. Perhaps we really can't afford some of it. But the point is: we've never even tried. And what we've done instead hasn't worked in any way.

Edited by shaun.lawson
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13 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

2. But even allowing for the above, and what you said about how owning property effectively trapped so many people into relying on the Tories, this still doesn't explain in any way why so many old people:

 

- Voted to leave the EU

 

- Voted for austerity

 

 

I have done the same as yourself, as you say, for space reasons and also because you, among others, have brought the above point up a few times, even copying and pasting a UK Govt. Graph to highlight your point and I would like to address this point specifically.

 

My question to you, the UK Govt. and anybody else using these stats and graphs is how do we know this? How can anyone possibly know these percentages from a vote where you put a cross (or some numbers) in a box on a ballot paper that is not marked with you name, address, age, etc. No identifying marks whatsoever. Or so we are told. 

 

I'm guessing it's from a poll? It's the only possible way that a graph such as that can be produced which, in my opinion, makes it nonsense. The data was probably, again in my opinion, collected and manipulated by the UK Govt. freinds (not a spelling mistake where I come from) in CA and all their associated Tory led companies. 

 

On another note. The BBC website carries a story today about the BBC vetting process that they claim stopped in the 1990's. Very interesting indeed. The corporation is an establishment shill and it still continues to this day. You may not have been hit with too much of it but up here, it's obvious.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-43754737

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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shaun.lawson
34 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

I have done the same as yourself, as you say, for space reasons and also because you, among others, have brought the above point up a few times, even copying and pasting a UK Govt. Graph to highlight your point and I would like to address this point specifically.

 

My question to you, the UK Govt. and anybody else using these stats and graphs is how do we know this? How can anyone possibly know these percentages from a vote where you put a cross (or some numbers) in a box on a ballot paper that is not marked with you name, address, age, etc. No identifying marks whatsoever. Or so we are told. 

 

I'm guessing it's from a poll? It's the only possible way that a graph such as that can be produced which, in my opinion, makes it nonsense. The data was probably, again in my opinion, collected and manipulated by the UK Govt. freinds (not a spelling mistake where I come from) in CA and all their associated Tory led companies.

 

The answer is the completely independent British Election Study. 

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5 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

The answer is the completely independent British Election Study. 

 

I know that Curtice felly is quite good at getting it scarily correct from a survey of the same 12 hundred and odd folk, and that's if they all respond. His picture on their site is akin to many a pantomime villain , or could it be Merlin? :D 

 

 

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shaun.lawson
6 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

I know that Curtice felly is quite good at getting it scarily correct from a survey of the same 12 hundred and odd folk, and that's if they all respond. His picture on their site is akin to many a pantomime villain , or could it be Merlin? :D 

 

 

 

19029679_10154381902882583_4245513328252

 

He's got polls... they're multiplying... it's ELECTRIFYING... 

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Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

19029679_10154381902882583_4245513328252

 

He's got polls... they're multiplying... it's ELECTRIFYING... 

 

Definitely Merlin :D

 

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deesidejambo
On 21/04/2018 at 21:11, Sraman said:

My dearest Chumpside,

 

I do hope you will forgive me for taking so long to get back to you. I was called away urgently to visit a man of principle, an OLD man of principle, who had been taken unwell and been rushed to hospital. An NHS hospital. The greatest thing this world has ever seen. The greatest thing this world has ever seen yet, the evil ****ers you call the Tories are decimating the greatest thing this world has ever seen.

 

You carry on supporting a bunch of murderous *******s, you seem more than happy to have the blood of British citizens on your hands.

 

Well done you Chumpside.

 

****ing prick.

Thanks for the ad Homs. Very eloquent

 

As others will see I tried to get a discussion going as to what posters would do to improve things but your response is to murder Tories and throw insults.

 

And I don’t support Tories but you just keep on with your hating.   It defines you.

 

 

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deesidejambo
On 22/04/2018 at 04:15, shaun.lawson said:

 

Not too far from what you and Lord BJ have suggested!

 

- Like him, I'd means test the state pension (and because of how many would lose it, would also raise it for those without the means to fend for themselves)

 

- I'd scrap Osborne's disgusting changes to the IHT threshold, but leave it as it is beyond that. 325K - I wouldn't take it down to 100K as you suggest.

 

- I'd take everyone earning below the personal allowance threshold out of NI contributions, and fund this through both your proposed 45% income tax on over 80K, and 50% on over 150K (or lower, depending on the maths)

 

- Land value tax. Very important, as this would do more than anything to sort the property market out

 

- Build, build, build: via a national investment bank. And yes, I'd borrow to do so if necessary, because interest rates have been historically low for decades

 

- I'd ban obligatory zero hours contracts (but they'd still be optional for anyone who preferred them)

 

- Financial transactions / Tobin Tax for the City

 

- I'd start experiments with Universal Basic Income, with a view to it replacing both pensions and the personal allowance in the medium term

 

- Rent cap, based on market rates

 

- Bedroom tax and removal of housing benefit for under-25s scrapped

 

- I'd ban mortgages for anyone who already has two properties

 

- I'd legislate to ensure all homes are fit for human habitation, prosecute and imprison landlords who did not comply

 

- I'd legislate to ensure that rental contracts of 6 months have an automatic option to renew at the same rent for another 6 months, except in cases of non-payment of rent, antisocial behaviour or the property not being looked after by the tenant

 

- I'd increase both the minimum wage and JobSeekers' Allowance

 

- I'd close all offshore tax avoidance loopholes, hire many more HMRC staff, and instruct them to focus most of their resources on that, not on low-hanging fruit. This would also involve simplifying the tax code and threatening accountants with prosecution if they fail to obey the spirit of the new code.

 

- I'd hire many more police officers, doctors, nurses, paramedics and firefighters, and raise their pay

 

- And my government, having included it in our manifesto, would immediately implement PR.

 

Perhaps some of this isn't possible. Perhaps we really can't afford some of it. But the point is: we've never even tried. And what we've done instead hasn't worked in any way.

Cheers,

 

Id vote for that in general.   Not so sure about banning zero hours contracts though - I'm on one and it works well for me and the others on the payroll as we need flexibility on both sides.   But companies like Macdonalds etc should not use them.

 

And imo PR, or some hybrid solution is a must.      I hope LibDems push it next time around - imo people are getting more and more sick of two party bias so time will come when PR gets the attention it deserves.    

 

Thanks for the other comments.  Its giving me plenty to think about.

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5 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Thanks for the ad Homs. Very eloquent

 

As others will see I tried to get a discussion going as to what posters would do to improve things but your response is to murder Tories and throw insults.

 

And I don’t support Tories but you just keep on with your hating.   It defines you.

 

 

 

Ooh, Latin. Very impressive.

 

As others will see, I was more than unimpressed with your lack of principles. Whoosh! Out the window at the drop of a hat for a single issue. Not very smart when you're voting on a whole host of issues including, decimating the NHS, killing the poor and most vulnerable, removing the right to work, the right to benefits and then deporting legal immigrants.

 

The Tory way of killing it's poor and most vulnerable isn't even as humane as a chemical weapons attack. No, they like to increase sanctions on them to a point where they have the choice to either starve to death, freeze to death or, if they are lucky, go insane.

 

Voting for the Tories, to me, equates to supporting the Tories, as I've stated, the biggest single threat to civilian life in Britain at this present time. How on earth could saving British Citizens lives equate to murder? Seems a perfectly reasonable way to "improve things", at least for those citizens that will be dead if we carry on in the way they are going.

 

Who'd've thunk that hating murderers and their facilitators would be a bad thing to some?

 

Ah well each to their own I suppose.

 

As for insults, would you like me to withdraw my comment?

 

 

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deesidejambo
1 minute ago, Sraman said:

 

Ooh, Latin. Very impressive.

 

As others will see, I was more than unimpressed with your lack of principles. Whoosh! Out the window at the drop of a hat for a single issue. Not very smart when you're voting on a whole host of issues including, decimating the NHS, killing the poor and most vulnerable, removing the right to work, the right to benefits and then deporting legal immigrants.

 

The Tory way of killing it's poor and most vulnerable isn't even as humane as a chemical weapons attack. No, they like to increase sanctions on them to a point where they have the choice to either starve to death, freeze to death or, if they are lucky, go insane.

 

Voting for the Tories, to me, equates to supporting the Tories, as I've stated, the biggest single threat to civilian life in Britain at this present time. How on earth could saving British Citizens lives equate to murder? Seems a perfectly reasonable way to "improve things", at least for those citizens that will be dead if we carry on in the way they are going.

 

Who'd've thunk that hating murderers and their facilitators would be a bad thing to some?

 

Ah well each to their own I suppose.

 

As for insults, would you like me to withdraw my comment?

 

 

No point in withdrawing the ****** prick insult unless you are sincere about it.   That’s for you to decide.

 

But it’s ok to hate Tories and also hate me I suppose, but I think that clouds your judgement on the issues and shows confirmation bias.

 

you accuse the Tories of murder, yet your proposed solution is to murder them.    I got the irony.

 

im happy to debate issues with you and forcefully challenge each other on our positions but if you are just going to keep calling me a ******* prick maybe it’s better you put me on ignore.

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

No point in withdrawing the ****** prick insult unless you are sincere about it.   That’s for you to decide.

 

But it’s ok to hate Tories and also hate me I suppose, but I think that clouds your judgement on the issues and shows confirmation bias.

 

you accuse the Tories of murder, yet your proposed solution is to murder them.    I got the irony.

 

im happy to debate issues with you and forcefully challenge each other on our positions but if you are just going to keep calling me a ******* prick maybe it’s better you put me on ignore.

 

 

 

 

 

Good because "I never withdraw" and that is a quote I suggest you look up as things have not changed since those words were uttered in parliament.

 

Nobodies on ignore. I wouldn't be able to point out the folly of their ways and steer them towards the correct path if they were. Your original reply to my rather forceful post shows that it has gone some way to doing this. Some people need more than a nudge.

 

As an aside, do zero hours contracts come with free healthcare? I really do hope so, given the way things are heading.

 

 

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deesidejambo
29 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

Good because "I never withdraw" and that is a quote I suggest you look up as things have not changed since those words were uttered in parliament.

 

Nobodies on ignore. I wouldn't be able to point out the folly of their ways and steer them towards the correct path if they were. Your original reply to my rather forceful post shows that it has gone some way to doing this. Some people need more than a nudge.

 

As an aside, do zero hours contracts come with free healthcare? I really do hope so, given the way things are heading.

 

 

You still seem to think because I challenge you I must be a Tory.  Wrong I’m afraid but I suspect you won’t believe me.

 

Zero hours don’t get free healthcare but I do get holiday pay of £20 a year.

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shaun.lawson
7 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Not so sure about banning zero hours contracts though - I'm on one and it works well for me and the others on the payroll as we need flexibility on both sides.  

 

Yes. That's why I'd only ban obligatory ones, ie. I'd stop companies forcing staff into them. They'd still be optional for anyone who preferred them, because they do work for some, as you say.

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deesidejambo
8 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Yes. That's why I'd only ban obligatory ones, ie. I'd stop companies forcing staff into them. They'd still be optional for anyone who preferred them, because they do work for some, as you say.

Indeed Labour need to be more clear on it.  Last GE they got muddled on it and lost the message

 

But thanks for the PR proposal though.   That had slipped my mind.   Time to make this a big issue but 3 parties greatly benefit from it so it needs public momentum.

 

stand for Parliament _ I’ll vote for you

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1 hour ago, deesidejambo said:

You still seem to think because I challenge you I must be a Tory.  Wrong I’m afraid but I suspect you won’t believe me.

 

Zero hours don’t get free healthcare but I do get holiday pay of £20 a year.

 

Are you aware of the quote? It wasn't a dig in any way whatsoever. It was, however, the most important thing in my post as it goes a long way to explaining the method in my madness.

 

You have told us you voted Tory. I am struggling to see the method in your madness that makes following their path worthwhile.

 

Have you looked into self employment? It's very handy if you have an expensive hobby. Get a bit more than £20 back in tax over the years, especially if you're teaching more than one discipline. That's a lot of expensive gear.

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deesidejambo
13 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

Are you aware of the quote? It wasn't a dig in any way whatsoever. It was, however, the most important thing in my post as it goes a long way to explaining the method in my madness.

 

You have told us you voted Tory. I am struggling to see the method in your madness that makes following their path worthwhile.

 

Have you looked into self employment? It's very handy if you have an expensive hobby. Get a bit more than £20 back in tax over the years, especially if you're teaching more than one discipline. That's a lot of expensive gear.

Yes yes I know I voted Tory at the last GE but, like many others in Scotland I did that to boot the SNP because I think Dcotland will be better as part of the U.K..  

 

 Many others did the same as evidenced by the success of the Tories in Scotland compared to down south.

 

You don’t really believe the Tories did well up here because of their policies?   

 

I am self employed and work for many different clients here and in Europe it’s just that the place I work for in Aberdeen insists on PAYE and zero hours contracts for its staff.  Don’t know why that is but it does get me the holiday pay.   I can still get tax relief on the kit though - but it’s not a hobby _ it’s my job.

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Amber Rudd in parliament right now more or less giving a recital of the Narcissist's Prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, it's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did,
You deserved it.

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3 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Yes yes I know I voted Tory at the last GE but, like many others in Scotland I did that to boot the SNP because I think Dcotland will be better as part of the U.K..  

 

 Many others did the same as evidenced by the success of the Tories in Scotland compared to down south.

 

You don’t really believe the Tories did well up here because of their policies?   

 

I am self employed and work for many different clients here and in Europe it’s just that the place I work for in Aberdeen insists on PAYE and zero hours contracts for its staff.  Don’t know why that is but it does get me the holiday pay.   I can still get tax relief on the kit though - but it’s not a hobby _ it’s my job.

 

If you want to give the SNP a bloody nose see if they have a five a side team and ask them for a challenge. The worst you'll get's a red card.

 

That's what voting's all about. You can't vote someone into office then absolve yourself of the consequences of the policies they promised to enact if you voted them in.

 

It does seem a bit daft but I suppose it must be helping out someone somewhere along the line to the tune of a bit more than £20, at least I hope so, why do it otherwise? It does need to be protected from abuse though. That'll definitely cost more than £20 a heed. 

 

That's what Lemmy said. It must be hell:

 

 

I've had the pleasure of skiing with this bloke. Nothing like this. I wouldn't have the energy to ski after skinning up the Corstorphine Hill let alone Mont Blanc and when he tried to take me off piste I failed miserably at the first set of moguls.

 

Anyway, enough of the niceties :D , now you have seen the consequences of giving this lot confidence I do hope you find a more palatable way of protesting in future. The phrase "give 'em enough rope" comes to mind and has me thinking that their must have been a Unionist ploy to use that tactic on the SNP when they returned a majority to the Scottish Parliament, something that was not able to happen due to the design of the voting system, a miracle perhaps (that Curtice felly gets everywhere), a sort of "let's watch them fail" protest, "that'll show them Westminster's better for us". Ooops. Even after a slight re-balancing in the Scottish Parliament, Westminster, with what little rope the Tories managed to fool good folks into giving them, is still letting the side down badly by not upholding their part of that plan.

 

Please do look into RB Cunningham Grahame. He worked abroad as well so at least you have something in common. You may not agree with his politics but his thoughts on Westminster and why it doesn't work are still true to this day as we are, sadly, currently witnessing.

 

Hey, Joe Strummer and R.B. Cunninghame Grahame. You could say they are both men of the establishment, both with a bit of inside knowledge. Not a bad couple of blokes to take political influence from.

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"The state has let these people down".

 

Amber Rudd.

 

There you have it.    Put people through a living hell on a wholly bogus premise and then put the implied blame on the country.     So much for being sorry.

 

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1 hour ago, Cade said:

Amber Rudd in parliament right now more or less giving a recital of the Narcissist's Prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, it's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did,
You deserved it.

 

 

The question has to be, will she try to save Teresa's skin by falling on her sword, or will they both go on muttering "Strong and Stable" while all their numpties reply in chorus "you're just playing politics" until they crumble to the ground?

 

All options sound good to me, and the first won't work anyway.

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shaun.lawson
24 minutes ago, Victorian said:

"The state has let these people down".

 

Amber Rudd.

 

There you have it.    Put people through a living hell on a wholly bogus premise and then put the implied blame on the country.     So much for being sorry.

 

 

I watched Question Time - and there, because Liz Truss apologised, she was given huge applause. An audience member then accused the admittedly awful Emily Thornberry of "playing party politics". :what:

 

And that's how this shit happens. Enough of the public convinces itself that the Tories can't be that bad; can't have done this deliberately; everything will be fine. And go straight back to not giving the remotest shit about anyone other than themselves. 

 

But of course, this will continue. It'll get worse. And it's not the government or the state I blame for that. It's the British people. The increasingly disgusting rhetoric on immigration only started in the first place because it got votes - and when any public abandons caring for others, there's a price to pay. A large one.

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6 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I watched Question Time - and there, because Liz Truss apologised, she was given huge applause. An audience member then accused the admittedly awful Emily Thornberry of "playing party politics". :what:

 

And that's how this shit happens. Enough of the public convinces itself that the Tories can't be that bad; can't have done this deliberately; everything will be fine. And go straight back to not giving the remotest shit about anyone other than themselves. 

 

But of course, this will continue. It'll get worse. And it's not the government or the state I blame for that. It's the British people. The increasingly disgusting rhetoric on immigration only started in the first place because it got votes - and when any public abandons caring for others, there's a price to pay. A large one.

 

I generally don't watch QT because it can become a platform for some of the most bizarre,  ignorant or demented people to talk utter shite.   Panel and audience.    Generally I would try to avoid watching Truss because she will not answer a question.    

 

It doesn't surprise me that the government response might be met with completely undeserved praise.    That's an example of the willfull ignorance of people.     Better for ignorant,  insecure people to forgive the evils of the Tories because they've been conditioned to deplore the alternative.

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Space Mackerel
7 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Yes yes I know I voted Tory at the last GE but, like many others in Scotland I did that to boot the SNP because I think Dcotland will be better as part of the U.K..  

 

 Many others did the same as evidenced by the success of the Tories in Scotland compared to down south.

 

You don’t really believe the Tories did well up here because of their policies?   

 

I am self employed and work for many different clients here and in Europe it’s just that the place I work for in Aberdeen insists on PAYE and zero hours contracts for its staff.  Don’t know why that is but it does get me the holiday pay.   I can still get tax relief on the kit though - but it’s not a hobby _ it’s my job.

 

Scotland doing better as part of the U.K. when the U.K. is last in GDP in Europe. 

 

LoL fecking L

 

Your new zero hour contract awaits Enjoy. 

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On 4/19/2018 at 12:09, JamboX2 said:

Today it's announced Lycamobile investigations by the French were rejected in the UK by May - a firm who is a major Tory donor.

 

Surprised there's not been more about this on the forum generally, not just within this topic, because it's an absolutely disgusting example of modern corporatism.

 

“This is the United Kingdom for God’s sake, not some third world banana republic where the organs of state are in hock to some sort of kleptocracy”

 

Aye.

 

 

Edited by Justin Z
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deesidejambo
16 hours ago, Sraman said:

 

If you want to give the SNP a bloody nose see if they have a five a side team and ask them for a challenge. The worst you'll get's a red card.

 

That's what voting's all about. You can't vote someone into office then absolve yourself of the consequences of the policies they promised to enact if you voted them in.

 

It does seem a bit daft but I suppose it must be helping out someone somewhere along the line to the tune of a bit more than £20, at least I hope so, why do it otherwise? It does need to be protected from abuse though. That'll definitely cost more than £20 a heed. 

 

That's what Lemmy said. It must be hell:

 

 

I've had the pleasure of skiing with this bloke. Nothing like this. I wouldn't have the energy to ski after skinning up the Corstorphine Hill let alone Mont Blanc and when he tried to take me off piste I failed miserably at the first set of moguls.

 

Anyway, enough of the niceties :D , now you have seen the consequences of giving this lot confidence I do hope you find a more palatable way of protesting in future. The phrase "give 'em enough rope" comes to mind and has me thinking that their must have been a Unionist ploy to use that tactic on the SNP when they returned a majority to the Scottish Parliament, something that was not able to happen due to the design of the voting system, a miracle perhaps (that Curtice felly gets everywhere), a sort of "let's watch them fail" protest, "that'll show them Westminster's better for us". Ooops. Even after a slight re-balancing in the Scottish Parliament, Westminster, with what little rope the Tories managed to fool good folks into giving them, is still letting the side down badly by not upholding their part of that plan.

 

Please do look into RB Cunningham Grahame. He worked abroad as well so at least you have something in common. You may not agree with his politics but his thoughts on Westminster and why it doesn't work are still true to this day as we are, sadly, currently witnessing.

 

Hey, Joe Strummer and R.B. Cunninghame Grahame. You could say they are both men of the establishment, both with a bit of inside knowledge. Not a bad couple of blokes to take political influence from.

Thanks for the feedback - the holiday pay thing is the law so they have to do it even for zero-hours spuds.

 

As I said earlier, I tend to vote on single issues as opposed to either blindly voting for a party, as I see that as limiting ability for free thought, or voting on a basket of issues, as that makes things more complex for my small mind.  I can claim that in the past I've voted Green, Labour, Tory, Libdem, and spoilt-paper.       I even once voted SNP in the 70s as my flatmate was offshore and he gave me a fiver to vote SNP on his behalf (yes electoral fraud I know)

 

This time round, thanks to Shauns suggestion I will likely vote LibDem if they push for PR as an issue which i genuinely believe is time for and it would fix the 3 party stranglehold at Westminster, and added to their tax policy which although not as strong as Labours, is where I'm at.

 

As for the SNP - I think they blew their chance last time.   And with Sturgeon stupidly going "game on" for Indy 2 the day after the Brexit vote, that resulted in anyone who, like me, wants to stay in the union (my wife is English and the kids see themselves as a bit of both) voting against them in the GE by tactically voting Tory (yes yes i know).     This is the reasons the Tories did well up here - it was nothing to do with their policies (they didn't have any) and everything to do with voting against Indy 2.  Labour were weak on this issue hence many Scottish votes shifting from Labour to Tory.  I dont think they will make the same mistake next time though.  To me the Unionist vote is strong and its a matter of how that gets split between the Union-supporting parties.  This division will of course benefit the SNP who will win almost all the Westminster seats like last time (bring on PR) but given their vote share was 37% at the last GE doesn't mean massive support for Indy in Scotland.       Would be interesting to hear if the SNP support PR for Westminster!

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22 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Thanks for the feedback - the holiday pay thing is the law so they have to do it even for zero-hours spuds.

 

As I said earlier, I tend to vote on single issues as opposed to either blindly voting for a party, as I see that as limiting ability for free thought, or voting on a basket of issues, as that makes things more complex for my small mind.  I can claim that in the past I've voted Green, Labour, Tory, Libdem, and spoilt-paper.       I even once voted SNP in the 70s as my flatmate was offshore and he gave me a fiver to vote SNP on his behalf (yes electoral fraud I know)

 

This time round, thanks to Shauns suggestion I will likely vote LibDem if they push for PR as an issue which i genuinely believe is time for and it would fix the 3 party stranglehold at Westminster, and added to their tax policy which although not as strong as Labours, is where I'm at.

 

As for the SNP - I think they blew their chance last time.   And with Sturgeon stupidly going "game on" for Indy 2 the day after the Brexit vote, that resulted in anyone who, like me, wants to stay in the union (my wife is English and the kids see themselves as a bit of both) voting against them in the GE by tactically voting Tory (yes yes i know).     This is the reasons the Tories did well up here - it was nothing to do with their policies (they didn't have any) and everything to do with voting against Indy 2.  Labour were weak on this issue hence many Scottish votes shifting from Labour to Tory.  I dont think they will make the same mistake next time though.  To me the Unionist vote is strong and its a matter of how that gets split between the Union-supporting parties.  This division will of course benefit the SNP who will win almost all the Westminster seats like last time (bring on PR) but given their vote share was 37% at the last GE doesn't mean massive support for Indy in Scotland.       Would be interesting to hear if the SNP support PR for Westminster!

 

Pretty sure they do.

 

And of course, it depends what sort of PR you use.  For example, the electoral system at Holyrood has produced a pro-independence majority at the last two Scottish general elections.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that PR is required for Westminster.  

 

You are entitled to vote for who you wish, but it was a general election, not an independence referendum and even although you were so hyped by that single issue, you have lent your support to the most odious bunch of crooks in recent memory, whether you like that or not.

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maroonlegions
2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

Pretty sure they do.

 

And of course, it depends what sort of PR you use.  For example, the electoral system at Holyrood has produced a pro-independence majority at the last two Scottish general elections.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that PR is required for Westminster.  

 

You are entitled to vote for who you wish, but it was a general election, not an independence referendum and even although you were so hyped by that single issue, you have lent your support to the most odious bunch of crooks in recent memory, whether you like that or not.

 

Cutting off ones nose to spite ones face rings a bell. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, maroonlegions said:

 

Cutting off ones nose to spite ones face rings a bell. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can hardly blame him, what with the various media onslaughts, there's a lot of it about.

 

It's good to note that he has seen the error of his ways and is thinking more critically about the future. We can only hope there are more like him out there that are doing the same and, hopefully, carrying on this discussion in real life with friends and family.

 

Deeside the pioneer!

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shaun.lawson
15 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

that resulted in anyone who, like me, wants to stay in the union (my wife is English and the kids see themselves as a bit of both) voting against them in the GE by tactically voting Tory (yes yes i know).     This is the reasons the Tories did well up here - it was nothing to do with their policies (they didn't have any) and everything to do with voting against Indy 2.  Labour were weak on this issue hence many Scottish votes shifting from Labour to Tory.  

 

You know how much I hate the Tories, of course. But just to say: this is completely fair enough. Davidson positioned herself as the repository of all pro-union sentiment - so it turned into a straight fight between indy supporters and unionists because Labour simply had no clear position at all.

 

To my surprise, and largely because the Tories conducted the most shambolic campaign ever seen, Labour's similarly weak, wishy washy position on Brexit didn't cost them down south. But they still have such a long way to go in Scotland - and Corbyn isn't prioritising it to anything like the extent he should be.

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May still trying to spin the government response to the Windrush scandal as some kind of benevolent triumph.    Government riding to the rescue,  etc.

 

Meanwhile... Rudd still lying about deportation targets and the government's awareness of the Windrush issue in the commons select committee.    

 

Liars.    Chancers.    Different day same scum.

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Space Mackerel

Scotland in Union financial contributions by individuals before the Electoral Commission removed it, blanked out their names for some reason then completely removed it again.

 

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9bZZ6IGBe6gJ:https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/241964/FOI-020_18.pdf+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

 

 

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Following on from the manifesto ‘wish list’, I was thinking....If ALL earnings were free of  personal income tax & National Insurance, could we balance the books by raising VAT to say 40% on absolutely everything (except on some basic essential foods (bread, milk, eggs, cheese etc) electricity & kids clothes would be vat free but not houses, clothes, plane tickets, cars, etc.)?

 

My thinking being you are only taxed when you buy something & so the low paid wont pay much tax whereas middle & higher income earners are generally spenders. 

 

Just a fantasy question & the 40% was plucked out the air. 

Edited by Pans Jambo
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3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Following on from the manifesto ‘wish list’, I was thinking....If ALL earnings were free of  personal income tax & National Insurance, could we balance the books by raising VAT to say 40% on absolutely everything (except on some basic essential foods (bread, milk, eggs, cheese etc) electricity & kids clothes would be vat free but not houses, clothes, plane tickets, cars, etc.)?

 

My thinking being you are only taxed when you buy something & so the low paid wont pay much tax whereas middle & higher income earners are generally spenders. 

 

Just a fantasy question & the 40% was plucked out the air. 

 

I've always been for the possible development and enhancement of V.A.T. with a scale of rates on different goods and services,  etc.       It would add bureaucracy and could be open to abuse regarding how goods and services are categorised and declared,  etc.      But it's certainly a progressive tax.     The government probably also views PAYE collected income tax and NIC as a much more controlled and controllable method of balancing and guaranteeing the tax yield.

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42 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Here is what the current Tory government think of Devolution and the “nation of equals” uttered by Cameron and May over the Brexit proposals.

 

Eat your porage and be thankful.

 

https://twitter.com/feorlean/status/989202000909864960?s=21

 

 

 

That Bill is still at amendments stage and can be amended. I think Mike Russell (feorlean) said in Holyrood he'd draft amendments to be placed in the Bill shortly. So will be interesting to see what follows his gloomy rhetoric.

 

Terrible subsection.

 

But a very unfortunately put tweet.

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Space Mackerel
21 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

That Bill is still at amendments stage and can be amended. I think Mike Russell (feorlean) said in Holyrood he'd draft amendments to be placed in the Bill shortly. So will be interesting to see what follows his gloomy rhetoric.

 

Terrible subsection.

 

But a very unfortunately put tweet.

 

 

Hes standing up for the likes of you that voted remain and not take down a road of English nationalistic xenophobia?

 

I take it you’ve forgotten what’s going on? Surely after all your posts on here you can’t smear the guy with small talk like that?

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6 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

Hes standing up for the likes of you that voted remain and not take down a road of English nationalistic xenophobia?

 

I take it you’ve forgotten what’s going on? Surely after all your posts on here you can’t smear the guy with small talk like that?

 

I'm not smearing him. I think his tweet is hyperbolic though.

 

Let's see his amendments. That'll be a genuinely good thing to see and one which has more substance than him tweeting.

 

You're forgetting also that ultimately in his view it's all a choice of identity and nationalism. Personally I've 0 interest in any nationalism be it Scottish, English or British. James Dornan or Rees-Mogg, to me both are narrow minded nationalists with narrow world views. So using nationalistic language to me doesn't convince me of his intent, actions do. Let's see his amendments.

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