deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 6 hours ago, shaun.lawson said: Hmm. See the graphic I posted in my response to Francis here: And see this too. Exactly how do you think this happened? Exactly how do you think Thatcherism in its various guises has been constantly voted in for 40 years? And exactly why do you think an enormous majority of over-65s vote Tory; while a similarly enormous majority of under-40s do not? Old people vote Tory not because they are old, but because they are rich. As you get older you get more money, you move into the higher tax brackets and you end up with big pensions, these people will vote Tory for selfish reasons. its not the age that drives the voting _ it’s the wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: You can hmm all you want but it is true. Its blindingly obvious thousands of people voted Tory in Scotland last GE because of the Indy issue, not because of Tory policies per se. Otherwise how can you explain their vote increase in Scotland as compared to rUK? You have Sturgeon to thank for that and Davidson jumped on it. The GE wasn't a vote on Indy. You were conned by the Tories to think it was, and you fell for it. You have helped elect this government by voting for it. If you are so afraid of another Indy ref is it because you feel that yes will win? Edited April 21, 2018 by Boris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 58 minutes ago, Boris said: The GE wasn't a vote on Indy. You were conned by the Tories to think it was, and you fell for it. You have helped elect this government by voting for it. If you are so afraid of another Indy ref is it because you feel that yes will win? Not quite right. Sturgeon and the SNP make every vote a vote or a proxy for a vote on independence. They teed it up and Ruth Davidson gleefully smacked it into the bleachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Boris said: The GE wasn't a vote on Indy. You were conned by the Tories to think it was, and you fell for it. You have helped elect this government by voting for it. If you are so afraid of another Indy ref is it because you feel that yes will win? This is the truth. Scottish people voted in 13 Tory MPs, largely in an irrelevant opposition to the idea of a second referendum, most of who insisted would be won by the pro-union side in any case. I'm not sure how these people can live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said: Not quite right. Sturgeon and the SNP make every vote a vote or a proxy for a vote on independence. They teed it up and Ruth Davidson gleefully smacked it into the bleachers. You see, I don't think they do. In as much as deep down the Tories know they are still a busted flush up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Boris said: You see, I don't think they do. In as much as deep down the Tories know they are still a busted flush up here. So how come the Tories did well in Scotland but not in England? I think you know i voted Labour in the previous GE. Didn’t work out for me! Anne Begg got booted hence my move to whatever party was best against the SNP. Worked that time, although I i said before the current incumbent is weak. So I voted Tory as a proxy vote against Indy. As did many others. Next time? I will vote Labour as my single issue is now taxation balancing. But if Indy2 is on the cards then i will vote for whatever party has the best chance of booting it. Mai Boris - what would you do? Give me your manifesto. I may vote for you. Same question to the others. Its easy to squeal about bout how evil the Tories are but not so easy to propose solutions. Everybody is getting richer and as such they will move to voting Tory once they get their first Range Rover. Edited April 21, 2018 by deesidejambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 31 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I wouldn’t call it a manefesto. However, here are a few things I would look to do. Unlike others i dont think the system is broke and think there is a lot of hyperbole around many’s posting on this thread. I think one one of the major issues is our welfare system was set up for a very different time. The population was significantly less and life expectancy was a lot less. Welfare system in its current state probably needs to change. I would means test, state pension and I would break the triple lock. I think it’s an outdated concept to expect the government to look after you in your old age. I would legalise marijuna and tax it, with the tax take going into NHS. I would probably also decriminalise drugs. i would encourage a housebuilding programme through a combination of tact’s. New town constructions and opening up existing green and brown sites. I would scrap council tax and replace with a local income tax. I would change the voting system to a PR based one. With regards to personal taxation levels. I would really need to see analysis on which benefits the tax take best. However, I wouldn’t envisage any significant changes. I would work closely with other countries to develop tax rules, which stop large organisations being able to avoid taxation as a result of globalisation. I’d probably like to lower some tax such as VAT. I think this could probably achieved with a bit of rebalancing some things. Nae bad. Would get my vote depending on what others come up with. If they propose anything. Not keen on leaving personal tax unchanged though. I think there is plenty spare cash sloshing about the rich folk that they wouldn’t mind paying a bit more. But nobody on this ste agrees! If What would you do about Calais? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) Excellent thread here. Utterly dispicable bunch of *****. https://twitter.com/trickyjabs/status/978334234069946373?s=21 Edited April 21, 2018 by Space Mackerel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 13 hours ago, shaun.lawson said: Here's the double offshore account owning Home Secretary's idea of 'democracy', displayed at a hustings in her constituency during the general election campaign. Number of reports in the mainstream media about this? Zero. Yep, he goes by the name of Mr Ethical on Twitter, he’s been exposing HSBC fraud and drug cartel money laundering for ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 4 hours ago, deesidejambo said: Ok you , Shaun, and Spacey do a lot of greetin on this thread, but I dont see you proposing solutions. So what would you do? I,ll start- Increase the higher tax rate to 45% for anyone over 80k Massively increase Inheritance tax for all estates over £100,000 to stop the wealth of the rich old people just going to their kids. Increase the starting tax threshold to whatever it needs to be to balance the tax revenue with the above, thereby shifting tax burden away from poor towards those who can afford it. reduce the Pension LTA to £500k reduce the annual tax free pension limit to 10k to stop the tax avoidance which is making older people richer. allow all those in Calais with proven families in the U.K. to enter. this to me is fair. So over to you chaps - what would you do? Independent Scotland then I’ll worry about that stuff after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said: Independent Scotland then I’ll worry about that stuff after. Thought so. No vote from me. Anyone else? Plenty more cut and pastes but no counter proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: To be honest I think it’s a bit of a false narrative around the ‘rich’ in relation to personal taxation. From memory something like the top 1% are responsible circa 25% of the income tax take. With the top 10% being responsible for another chunk. I think the constant insinuation that rich people don’t pay tax is not founded in reality. Personal income tax is very hard to avoid for obvious reasons. Most tax avoidance (which is within the rules) happens around things other direct income tax. Generally capital gains area. You continue to increase the the rate of personal taxation to unreasonable levels, people would look at ways to avoid as it will be financially beneficial to do so. i think fundamentally its wrong govt could take over 50% of what you earn. I think that’s very repressive. That’s why I’d look at what research suggest will maximise it. It’s not about a policy to make other feel better it’s about maximising the tax take. My focus would be on working with other countries to close loop holes etc. That to me would that would result in benefit, I suspect significantly changing personal tax bandings is more likely to have a negative effect. I genuinely don’t know what I would do around Calais. I agree that if you overdo tax then it’s maybe counterproductive. But over the years I think the headroom before this happens has increased so imo there is space to do this. In other words the band in which we can work is wide enough and currently we are at the low end of the band. Especially as I think it’s the case that 40% of the working population is now in the higher salary band. The rich are simply getting richer. The poor are also getting “richer” but at a far lower rate so the gap is becoming too wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I think this another policy to make people feel better than deriving any benefit. Inheritence tax is by far and away the easiest tax to avoid. A bit of careful planning will minimise anyone’s liability. £100,000 estate is nothing. Any homeowner would more than likely fall into this bracket. Your proposed change doesn’t hinder people passing 10’s of millions across it hinders the average person who has worked all days and managed to buy a house. i also think people should be allowed to pass wealth on. You take things like that away, your really stifle drive for improvement/entrepreneurship. Whilst, it’s a natural reaction to want to benefit your children and do the best for them. Again I find the suggestion that the government should be able to come in at your death and take all you have as pretty regressive policy. I’d actually scrap inheritance tax it’s a ineffective tax imo. That’s you lost my vote! Inheritance tax is what I’d call a necessary evil. itsneeded because of large personal wealth being generated then just being passed to kids. Then they also become rich without even needing to work for it. that is my definition of elite classes- rich without working for it. And it needs to be reigned-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sraman Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 5 hours ago, deesidejambo said: Ok you , Shaun, and Spacey do a lot of greetin on this thread, but I dont see you proposing solutions. So what would you do? I,ll start- Increase the higher tax rate to 45% for anyone over 80k Massively increase Inheritance tax for all estates over £100,000 to stop the wealth of the rich old people just going to their kids. Increase the starting tax threshold to whatever it needs to be to balance the tax revenue with the above, thereby shifting tax burden away from poor towards those who can afford it. reduce the Pension LTA to £500k reduce the annual tax free pension limit to 10k to stop the tax avoidance which is making older people richer. allow all those in Calais with proven families in the U.K. to enter. this to me is fair. So over to you chaps - what would you do? Give it up chump. What would I do? "round them up, put them in a field and bomb the B******s" We'd have plenty room for decent folks to come in and take their place. Believe me, the world would be a much a better place. Cash seems to be your king, %age this %age that. My dad was the same but he stuck with the Liberals as he still had some principles. You, on the other hand, have none. The Tories in Scotland make everything about Independence not Nicola Sturgeon. The Labour Party in Scotland make everything about Independence, not Nicola Sturgeon. "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sraman said: Give it up chump. What would I do? "round them up, put them in a field and bomb the B******s" We'd have plenty room for decent folks to come in and take their place. Believe me, the world would be a much a better place. Cash seems to be your king, %age this %age that. My dad was the same but he stuck with the Liberals as he still had some principles. You, on the other hand, have none. The Tories in Scotland make everything about Independence not Nicola Sturgeon. The Labour Party in Scotland make everything about Independence, not Nicola Sturgeon. "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" So you have no idea what you would do. That is interesting as you are good at greetin on about the evil Tories but have no personal ideas what you would do to make society better. Classic sit on the sidelines and moan about the man. And your statement that I have no principles is moronic. I do have plenty but just not the same as yours. Classic idiot statement that people who disagree with you somehow have no principles. Lets try a single issue to see if you have any insights. The evil Tories are stopping migrants at Calais. Would you let them in? Edited April 21, 2018 by deesidejambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sraman Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Just now, deesidejambo said: So you have no idea what you would do. That is interesting as you are good at greetin on about the evil Tories but have no personal ideas what you would do to make society better. Classic sit on the sidelines and moan about the man. Lets try a single issue to see if you have any insights. The evil Tories are stopping migrants at Calais. Would you let them in? I told you what I would do. I wasn't joking. Society would improve tenfold overnight. It's the Tory way after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sraman said: I told you what I would do. I wasn't joking. Society would improve tenfold overnight. It's the Tory way after all. So you would just murder Tories to improve society? Murder folk that you don’t agree with - that’s your view of society. Russians will agree with you though. and I see you dodged the Calais question. Bomb them also? Edited April 21, 2018 by deesidejambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sraman Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: So you would just murder Tories to improve society? Murder folk that you don’t agree with - that’s your view of society. Russians will agree with you though. Murder? No, no, no. Eliminate the biggest threat to British Citizens lives, oh yes. As I said it's the Tory way. "If you can't beat them join them." Except this time it wouldn't be based on lies and half truths. Edited April 21, 2018 by Sraman Last line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sraman Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: On th point of old people having everything and younger generations having nothing. I think that’s a bit skewed picture. It’s only natural older people have more, due to their life span. They have been around long enough that mortgages paid off, pension pots and earning at maximum levels and probably a bit of equity in property. To except someone younger in there 20-40’s to be at this levels when been about half the time so to speak. It’s pretty logical they will have more. It's not old people. It's the Government. Classic divide and rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Sraman said: It's not old people. It's the Government. Classic divide and rule. It’s both. As the population ages there are more old people. The more old people there are, the more Tory voters there are, but it’s not because they are old they switch, it’s because they have money. and it’s money that trumps principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sraman Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 minute ago, deesidejambo said: It’s both. As the population ages there are more old people. The more old people there are, the more Tory voters there are, but it’s not because they are old they switch, it’s because they have money. and it’s money that trumps principles. No it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sraman said: No it's not. So tell me why people as they get older swap from Labour to Tory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: You become more conservative as you get older. There are a variety of reasons that but essentially because you relate to a different period and the values of this period are usually repeated enter by conservative with a small c that are more about tradition. Plus less time on planet make you more risk adverse. Ill be honest I’m amazed by lack of nuanced thinking around people’s voting choices. Voting is a pretty complex thing and requires to make a variety of assessment on wide ranging issue. It’s rarely down to a single issue. However, people find it to easy to demonise others with a different opinion as opposed to engage in actual discussion and deal with facts. That’s pretty disappointing and maybe why we have so many poor politicians. It’s not about making things better for mining but winning some faux battle imo. I was asking Sraman. But i agrée that just shouting from the sidelines about evil this and no principles that does annoy me But I differ from you in that I generally vote on single issues hence my boring everyone on tax balance. But it usually makes my voting choice easier. Accepted that others vote on a more broad base so it’s more difficult. But I suspect more shy Tories on here than they are letting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 58 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: So tell me why people as they get older swap from Labour to Tory? I agree with “small c conservatism” rationale although the migration to Tory with age is probably greatly emphasised. There are many variables and voters are now better informed and work to varying agenda. As you demonstrate, voting Conservative in NE Scotland is more about countering the SNP than a display of support for the Tory policies. Corbyn is not the great threat that some suggest. To win over the crucial voters, his manifesto would need to temper the more extreme rhetoric that makes them attractive to some key electors. Key electors such as the 533 voters in 9 marginal constituencies who, if they had voted differently, would have have given May her full majority. At the other end of the age spectrum, we we also hear about the “Youthquake” and how that has been mobilised in support of Corbyn. Unfortunately, the “Youthquake” has now been exposed as a myth. http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/news/ As ever, elections will be won by the Party that best appeals to the middle-ground. Corbyn, however, is not doing much to improve his standing in that constituency. The simple fact that the monumentally stupid Diane Abbott remains on his Front Bench has to ring alarm bells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 8 hours ago, deesidejambo said: Ok you , Shaun, and Spacey do a lot of greetin on this thread, but I dont see you proposing solutions. So what would you do? I,ll start- Increase the higher tax rate to 45% for anyone over 80k Massively increase Inheritance tax for all estates over £100,000 to stop the wealth of the rich old people just going to their kids. Increase the starting tax threshold to whatever it needs to be to balance the tax revenue with the above, thereby shifting tax burden away from poor towards those who can afford it. reduce the Pension LTA to £500k reduce the annual tax free pension limit to 10k to stop the tax avoidance which is making older people richer. allow all those in Calais with proven families in the U.K. to enter. this to me is fair. So over to you chaps - what would you do? Scrap income tax altogether. I’m not sure exactly what should be brought in its place but it causes so many problems, creates so many loopholes etc etc etc. Do away with it and get tax money in other ways, if it’s all on goods then fair enough, we all buy loads of goods and we need to. Luxury items obviously get taxed higher so rich people can’t escape, mortgage tax etc. I know it’s short on detail but along those lines something needs to happen for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Scrap income tax altogether. I’m not sure exactly what should be brought in its place but it causes so many problems, creates so many loopholes etc etc etc. Do away with it and get tax money in other ways, if it’s all on goods then fair enough, we all buy loads of goods and we need to. Luxury items obviously get taxed higher so rich people can’t escape, mortgage tax etc. I know it’s short on detail but along those lines something needs to happen for me. Interesting! Would vote for that a sa principle but I think too many people have massive savings that would be untouched. It would also discourage spending which many businesses and jobs depend on. i like the idea of a wealth tax though if it could be worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Lots of good ideas but all tricky. Maybe murdering the Tories is the easiest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 49 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Scrap income tax altogether. I’m not sure exactly what should be brought in its place but it causes so many problems, creates so many loopholes etc etc etc. Do away with it and get tax money in other ways, if it’s all on goods then fair enough, we all buy loads of goods and we need to. Luxury items obviously get taxed higher so rich people can’t escape, mortgage tax etc. I know it’s short on detail but along those lines something needs to happen for me. Small flaw there pal, all these companies that will be collecting this new tax system are currently right now avoiding paying tax via offshore shell companies etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: Lots of good ideas but all tricky. Maybe murdering the Tories is the easiest! And you criticise me for my comment about OAP’s eventually passing on lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 3 hours ago, deesidejambo said: It’s both. As the population ages there are more old people. The more old people there are, the more Tory voters there are, but it’s not because they are old they switch, it’s because they have money. and it’s money that trumps principles. There’s a lot of truth in this. It’s not true of every single individual but we all know someone who’s been left leaning in their early working lives, who, when their careers progress and they acquire a bit of wealth, remarkably turn blue when they perceive that it serves their interests better. There’s no doubt that the majority of people who vote make their choice out of self interest. Altruism is in very short supply for the most part when it comes to voting choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said: And you criticise me for my comment about OAP’s eventually passing on lol Yes I do. Because it’s clear my comment was meant to be a joke as people like you said you don’t know what to do. You however meant it when you said you hoped for old people to die. Go on, take a chance, what would you do about Calais? Your big chance to, for once , add some good insights. Mon Then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: However, he’s talking about increase indirect or VAT or sale taxes. So offshore, shell companies don’t really effect this as these are set up to avoid tax on profits not the vat and sales taxes which they need to sort to continue trading. VAT is hard to avoid whereas as tax on profits much less so. I fill in a VAT return every 3 months, there is no checks as such and is done purely on trust. The only threat is an unannounced inspection of your accounts. I could quite easily keep a grand every time and risk it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: Yes I do. Because it’s clear my comment was meant to be a joke as people like you said you don’t know what to do. You however meant it when you said you hoped for old people to die. Go on, take a chance, what would you do about Calais? Your big chance to, for once , add some good insights. Mon Then. I was stating an absolute cast iron platinum plated fact that humans don’t live forever, you can twist it anyway you want to suit your agenda though. Calais? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said: I fill in a VAT return every 3 months, there is no checks as such and is done purely on trust. The only threat is an unannounced inspection of your accounts. I could quite easily keep a grand every time and risk it. Please do! A few years in the pokey may sort you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 hour ago, deesidejambo said: Interesting! Would vote for that a sa principle but I think too many people have massive savings that would be untouched. It would also discourage spending which many businesses and jobs depend on. i like the idea of a wealth tax though if it could be worked. I imagine that a lot of people who currently save and/or contribute to pensions (and, in so doing, lend their cash for investment) might decide to “**** it, I am going to blow my spare cash on wine, women and song or maybe squander it. If I have nothing left when I retire, the State will pick up the bill.” They might also decide that, after tax, the return on effort in years of study or graft is insufficient compensation and decide not to bother their a***s doing anything difficult and get a job flipping burgers. Me, I prefer such as those at the pointy end of the aircraft or holding the working end of a stethoscope to be moderately competent and not the product of paying peanuts and getting monkeys. Going tonto on taxes will be counterproductive. Of that you can be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: Please do! A few years in the pokey may sort you out. Unlucky deeside, clean as a whistle this cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said: I was stating an absolute cast iron platinum plated fact that humans don’t live forever, you can twist it anyway you want to suit your agenda though. Calais? Calais. You are unaware that there is a camp there of migrants from Syria and North Africa who want to enter Britain without applying via usual channels. The evil vile racist Tories won’t let them in. What is your solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Just now, Space Mackerel said: Unlucky deeside, clean as a whistle this cat Go on. Give VAT dodging a whirl. I’ll visit you in Sauchton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Lord BJ said: On th point of old people having everything and younger generations having nothing. I think that’s a bit skewed picture. It’s only natural older people have more, due to their life span. They have been around long enough that mortgages paid off, pension pots and earning at maximum levels and probably a bit of equity in property. To except someone younger in there 20-40’s to be at this levels when been about half the time so to speak. It’s pretty logical they will have more. All these rich pensioners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 minute ago, deesidejambo said: Calais. You are unaware that there is a camp there of migrants from Syria and North Africa who want to enter Britain without applying via usual channels. The evil vile racist Tories won’t let them in. What is your solution? Maybe stopping bombing all their countries would be a good start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said: I imagine that a lot of people who currently save and/or contribute to pensions (and, in so doing, lend their cash for investment) might decide to “**** it, I am going to blow my spare cash on wine, women and song or maybe squander it. If I have nothing left when I retire, the State will pick up the bill.” They might also decide that, after tax, the return on effort in years of study or graft is insufficient compensation and decide not to bother their a***s doing anything difficult and get a job flipping burgers. Me, I prefer such as those at the pointy end of the aircraft or holding the working end of a stethoscope to be moderately competent and not the product of paying peanuts and getting monkeys. Going tonto on taxes will be counterproductive. Of that you can be sure. I didn’t suggest going Tonto (well ok I did to get things going) but don’t you think there is enough headroom to rebalance the take more in favour of the poor? also giving the lower paid more money will channel it back into the economy as they will spend. Which is good. Unless they spend it on Spacey when he starts his VAT fraud shenanigans but giving it to the rich goes into their savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said: Maybe stopping bombing all their countries would be a good start? Maybe so. But Syria is being bombed by the Russians and nobody is bombing North Africa. And if the bombing stopped tomorrow the camp would still be there. So so the camp is still there. What would you do about it. Come on Spacey - give a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Good for you, I have people who deal with that for me. You will know then that if you do that then your are fiddling your books which is a crime. You will know there are lots of things you can do with profits to change how much tax you pay, which are perfectly legal. Apple or whoever aren’t going to fiddle their books because it’s counterproductive share prices, reputation, trading etc. They will gladly usually tax loop holes which are numerous around profits not VAT. Your self employed plumber or whatever might because it easier for them to get away with it and generally short term thinkers. Big business on the other hand not so much. I think you need to watch “The China Hustle,” it’s on Netflix if you have it. Watch that and tell me if the 4 big company auditors are crooked too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Ok the second half is on. thanks to those who have given some suggestions _ got me thinking. and interestingly those who post links and memes about vile evil racist Tories have contributed nothing, except murder them. But tomorrow it will be more memes, links, and cut and paste articles about how vile evil baby-eating Tories are so evil anyone who votes for them is also evil etc etc. Nite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, deesidejambo said: Maybe so. But Syria is being bombed by the Russians and nobody is bombing North Africa. And if the bombing stopped tomorrow the camp would still be there. So so the camp is still there. What would you do about it. Come on Spacey - give a solution. Theres been a civil war in Libya, Tunisia to a certain extent and a military coup in Egypt recently, last I heard 600 people were murdered there. What I would do is park all these disused vans that were driving about London threatening to send people back if they couldn’t prove the were British and place mini guns every 500m all along the South East coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Shit I forgot to mention - id bin Rape Clause immediately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 (edited) What I like is that when the big companies do get caught fiddling their taxes, they are able to do a deal with HMRC and only end up paying a tiny fraction of what they should have been paying. (See amazon, google etc) Small business owners doing the same end up in jail and being banned from being a director for 5+ years. Edited April 21, 2018 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Space Mackerel said: Small flaw there pal, all these companies that will be collecting this new tax system are currently right now avoiding paying tax via offshore shell companies etc. No they avoid corporate tax which is a tax on their profits. They can’t avoid VAT or whatever other tax is brought in to replace income tax. A sales tax like America for example. I was just throwing it out there anyway im not getting specific on the mechanics of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ministry Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said: I fill in a VAT return every 3 months, there is no checks as such and is done purely on trust. The only threat is an unannounced inspection of your accounts. I could quite easily keep a grand every time and risk it. Out of interest how much revenue do you need to be turning over to have to pay VAT? Don’t know if your a sole trader, but I thought for people turning over a relatively small amount they didn’t have to pay VAT?. I could be wrong but think it rings a bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 53 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I’ve seen it’s not a great documentary not sure it has much do with anything. We’re talking about indirect taxation not sure ‘allegedly’ falsifying accounts to inflate share values has to do with that. Your conflating issues. Not sure it was much to do with anything? Billions of US dollars have ended being up being swindled, if it’s not to do much with anything then I think you completely misunderstood the doc 100%. Now if you want to replace income tax or any tax for that matter, based on use, a good start would probably be scrap VED and bump up the tax on petrol and diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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