More Tory lies

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I wonder how Orban feels about being platformed with a right wing lunatic. 

😃.     Isn't right-wing lunacy the  sole preserve of white men though ?     I doubt he'll  be happy that a brown-skinned woman is muscling in on the act - especially one who's even further to right of her right-wing brown-skinned boss.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

33 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

😃.     Isn't right-wing lunacy the  sole preserve of white men though ?     I doubt he'll  be happy that a brown-skinned woman is muscling in on the act - especially one who's even further to right of her right-wing brown-skinned boss.

 

 

Buries the myth that aw the  “ right wing “ “ gammon “ are white or “ gammon “ ….. oh dear 

[Mikey1874]

 

 

[milky_26]

junior education minister robert halfon has stepped down from his position and will not stand at the next election.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68669507

 

Edited March 26 by milky_26

[Gundermann]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

I was brought up In poverty so where most people I know and 99% of us did alright . You’re over egging the poverty angle . It’s also rather insulting to addicts too . 
 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5672554/#:~:text=Addiction is a chronic brain,%2C personal%2C or social consequences.

 

Thatcher destroyed a whole swathe of industries and their communities. The effects are very much with us today. I'd didn't egg anything. I just provided a link to some academic research on the effects today of what you say is 'living in the past'. I'd also take issue with your 99% stats. 99% of us didn't do alright hence the high rate of suicide, premature male death (my auld man was one of many), addictions (not just illegal substances), obesity, diabetes and domestic violence.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Gundermann said:

 

Thatcher destroyed a whole swathe of industries and their communities. The effects are very much with us today. I'd didn't egg anything. I just provided a link to some academic research on the effects today of what you say is 'living in the past'. I'd also take issue with your 99% stats. 99% of us didn't do alright hence the high rate of suicide, premature male death (my auld man was one of many), addictions (not just illegal substances), obesity, diabetes and domestic violence.

Breaking News....there was poverty and inequality long before Thatcher came about.   I am aware that her policices didnt help though. I think all of us from deprived areas and being raised in the 80s  have our own stories we could mention on this , But id rather keep that part of my history private.

 

What my parents did do was install in me the importance of education and using it as a means to get out of poverty.  It was route for most of my contempories.  Most have did well . There is no chip on my shoulder about my upbringing and no blaming others either.  Shit happens 

[i wish jj was my dad]

The post war consensus, creation of thw welfare state and NHS all helped tackle the worst of poverty experienced in the UK prior to WW2. Of course there was poverty in the generations that immediately followed but the consensus was a genuine attempt by all parties to create a more equal society. Changes were obviously needed to reflect the inevitable decline of heavy industry but it might just have been managed more sensibly if north sea oil had been used to support a managed transition rather than fund the unemployment created by Thatcher and Keith Joseph ripping everything up and leaving entire communities on the bones of their arse with little hope of recovery.

Deregulation, privatisation and the culture of greed that inspired Brexit and allowed arseholes like Fred Goodwin and Liz Truss to bet the farm without restraint all flowed from the end of the consensus and that was where a lot of our current societal problems stem from. 

That's why these ****s are always looking to blame somebody else and some people are either stupid enough to believe it or selfish enough not to GAF. 

[Footballfirst]

No words.

 

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

The post war consensus, creation of thw welfare state and NHS all helped tackle the worst of poverty experienced in the UK prior to WW2. Of course there was poverty in the generations that immediately followed but the consensus was a genuine attempt by all parties to create a more equal society. Changes were obviously needed to reflect the inevitable decline of heavy industry but it might just have been managed more sensibly if north sea oil had been used to support a managed transition rather than fund the unemployment created by Thatcher and Keith Joseph ripping everything up and leaving entire communities on the bones of their arse with little hope of recovery.

Deregulation, privatisation and the culture of greed that inspired Brexit and allowed arseholes like Fred Goodwin and Liz Truss to bet the farm without restraint all flowed from the end of the consensus and that was where a lot of our current societal problems stem from. 

That's why these ****s are always looking to blame somebody else and some people are either stupid enough to believe it or selfish enough not to GAF. 

 

I remember around the same time as Thatcher was getting into her stride in her first term of office, Ireland experienced its first major bout of mass unemployment.  Previously whenever things got bad here, people just left for Britain, but in 1981/82 there were no jobs to be found there either.  I remember talking about deprivation in certain parts of Dublin and how bad it was with a trade union activist and leftie, and he said that what you really had to worry about wasn't those who were cut off from the economy, but their children and the generations to come after that.  Why?  Because they wouldn't have the same opportunities, or even the same role models, as the people who were born in the 20-30 years after WW II.  And so it has proved. 

 

It's easy for old gits (including me) to bang on about how they were able to use education as a means to improvement, and how the people around us in poor and working class communities were able to do the same.  But people of that era had lots of adults around them who were working and who valued education.  They had role models to look up to, and a society that made opportunities available to them for education, development and work.  Once the neo-liberal agents (in the UK, Ireland and lots of other places) ripped up the post-war consensus and left communities "on the bones of their arse", young people didn't have that.  Their parents were people who didn't work and didn't value education - so what lessons were they supposed to learn from them?  Who were their role models supposed to be, if no-one on their streets was learning and improving themselves?  The local junkies and pushers?  Can we even say that deprived streets and places are communities?  If they are, what lessons are they passing on to their younger members?  And should we be surprised if those young people grow up to be the same as the disconnected generation that came before them, if not worse?

 

If we had that life, would we live it differently?

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

No words.

 

They’ve scraped through the bottom of the barrel.

[JudyJudyJudy]

37 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I remember around the same time as Thatcher was getting into her stride in her first term of office, Ireland experienced its first major bout of mass unemployment.  Previously whenever things got bad here, people just left for Britain, but in 1981/82 there were no jobs to be found there either.  I remember talking about deprivation in certain parts of Dublin and how bad it was with a trade union activist and leftie, and he said that what you really had to worry about wasn't those who were cut off from the economy, but their children and the generations to come after that.  Why?  Because they wouldn't have the same opportunities, or even the same role models, as the people who were born in the 20-30 years after WW II.  And so it has proved. 

 

It's easy for old gits (including me) to bang on about how they were able to use education as a means to improvement, and how the people around us in poor and working class communities were able to do the same.  But people of that era had lots of adults around them who were working and who valued education.  They had role models to look up to, and a society that made opportunities available to them for education, development and work.  Once the neo-liberal agents (in the UK, Ireland and lots of other places) ripped up the post-war consensus and left communities "on the bones of their arse", young people didn't have that.  Their parents were people who didn't work and didn't value education - so what lessons were they supposed to learn from them?  Who were their role models supposed to be, if no-one on their streets was learning and improving themselves?  The local junkies and pushers?  Can we even say that deprived streets and places are communities?  If they are, what lessons are they passing on to their younger members?  And should we be surprised if those young people grow up to be the same as the disconnected generation that came before them, if not worse?

 

If we had that life, would we live it differently?

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1990/09/art1full.pdf

 

There were still jobs and opportunities in the 80s , but in different industries , albeit probs of less paid . There was always the opportunities to go to college / uni and receive full funding for it too .  

Edited March 26 by JudyJudyJudy

[Cade]

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1990/09/art1full.pdf

 

There were still jobs and opportunities in the 80s , but in different industries , albeit probs of less paid . There was always the opportunities to go to college / uni and receive full funding for it too .  

 

The people I'm talking about were only born in 1980.  Once you cut one generation of people in a place off from normal expectations of social integration and mobility, you shouldn't be surprised if many of their children (and in turn grandchildren) are also cut off from those expectations. Once that happens, it doesn't matter what opportunities you offer those people when they reach 18 - most of them will have never had anyone in their lives to pass on a sense of the value of education or a work ethic.  Many of them won't even have the basic rudiments of learning and couldn't take on further or higher education even if it were free.

 

This stuff is almost invisible to a child, but it moulds their lives.  You might believe you improved your lot as a person from a poor background, but you needed a lot of help from others, you needed role models to look up to, and you needed a measure of luck. So did I, by the way.  The rest you still have to do for yourself, but without the supports I've mentioned 99% or more of young people will never even make it to the starting blocks.

 

In the 50s, 60s, and 70s young people from impoverished backgrounds had a lot of opportunity and a lot of family and community support. That was torn up in Britain and Ireland in the 1980s, and two generations later today's young people from those backgrounds have less of both, and it is no surprise that so many of them don't manage to improve their lot or escape their impoverished backgrounds.

 

If you've lost kids from what we might call "normal" at an early age, it's almost impossible to get them back on track later.

 

 

Edited March 27 by Ulysses

[i wish jj was my dad]

Good posts, Uly. I don't know so much about Ireland but the damage to the social fabric of large swathes of the country was enormous. The communities affected may not have exactly have been prosperous but men were proud to be miners, steelworkers, shipbuilders etc as were the generations before them and taking that away from them often took away their identity and  that was happening at such a scale  that it would leave deep and long lasting scars. It wasn't always realistic to expect a 4th generation miner to retrain to become an electrician, flip burgers or sell insurance. 

What makes it worse is that many of those damaged communities were vulnerable to the populist rhetoric of Farage and Co with their take back control, blame the immigrants spiel and gave those ****s a mandate to shaft them further with brexit. 

[manaliveits105]

10 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1990/09/art1full.pdf

 

There were still jobs and opportunities in the 80s , but in different industries , albeit probs of less paid . There was always the opportunities to go to college / uni and receive full funding for it too .  

Good post James coal like oil and gas was never going to be forever and retraining is always going to be required 

Scargill and the unions brought about their own early demise 

[JudyJudyJudy]

38 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Good post James coal like oil and gas was never going to be forever and retraining is always going to be required 

Scargill and the unions brought about their own early demise 

👍 it was only delaying the inevitable . Notice not a pip out of some regarding the  ending of oil extraction in Scotland championed by the creepy greens and SNP 

[Gundermann]

Stool Britannia... Turd Reich etc....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/26/4m-hours-of-raw-sewage-discharges-in-england-last-year-figures-expected-to-show

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

Stool Britannia... Turd Reich etc....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/mar/26/4m-hours-of-raw-sewage-discharges-in-england-last-year-figures-expected-to-show

What an absolute disgrace.

As the Toalies are scum it’s not a surprise.

[manaliveits105]

A mere drop in the ocean when

compared to the daily shite by the obsessed comrades on this thread 

[Japan Jambo]

19 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I wonder how this will play out.

 

 

 

Orban to pull out on the grounds that he doesn't want to tarnish his moderate credentials?

[ehcaley]

2 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Good posts, Uly. I don't know so much about Ireland but the damage to the social fabric of large swathes of the country was enormous. The communities affected may not have exactly have been prosperous but men were proud to be miners, steelworkers, shipbuilders etc as were the generations before them and taking that away from them often took away their identity and  that was happening at such a scale  that it would leave deep and long lasting scars. It wasn't always realistic to expect a 4th generation miner to retrain to become an electrician, flip burgers or sell insurance. 

What makes it worse is that many of those damaged communities were vulnerable to the populist rhetoric of Farage and Co with their take back control, blame the immigrants spiel and gave those ****s a mandate to shaft them further with brexit. 

I was a 4th generation miner,a highly skilled and qualified coalface electrical engineer who,like most of my colleagues,transferred skills without a problem.Thought I had died and gone to heaven after a few weeks working in Telecoms.

 

 

 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

The people I'm talking about were only born in 1980.  Once you cut one generation of people in a place off from normal expectations of social integration and mobility, you shouldn't be surprised if many of their children (and in turn grandchildren) are also cut off from those expectations. Once that happens, it doesn't matter what opportunities you offer those people when they reach 18 - most of them will have never had anyone in their lives to pass on a sense of the value of education or a work ethic.  Many of them won't even have the basic rudiments of learning and couldn't take on further or higher education even if it were free.

 

This stuff is almost invisible to a child, but it moulds their lives.  You might believe you improved your lot as a person from a poor background, but you needed a lot of help from others, you needed role models to look up to, and you needed a measure of luck. So did I, by the way.  The rest you still have to do for yourself, but without the supports I've mentioned 99% or more of young people will never even make it to the starting blocks.

 

In the 50s, 60s, and 70s young people from impoverished backgrounds had a lot of opportunity and a lot of family and community support. That was torn up in Britain and Ireland in the 1980s, and two generations later today's young people from those backgrounds have less of both, and it is no surprise that so many of them don't manage to improve their lot or escape their impoverished backgrounds.

 

If you've lost kids from what we might call "normal" at an early age, it's almost impossible to get them back on track later.

 

 

 

Truth torpedoes.

[Tazio]

12 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1990/09/art1full.pdf

 

There were still jobs and opportunities in the 80s , but in different industries , albeit probs of less paid . There was always the opportunities to go to college / uni and receive full funding for it too .  

Missing the point that local industries were devastated. Opportunities in things like the service sector didn't help you if you were located in a small town which was based around one sector. Did people expect swathes of people from the coal or steel based small town to move to their nearest big city where those jobs were located? 

[Japan Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Missing the point that local industries were devastated. Opportunities in things like the service sector didn't help you if you were located in a small town which was based around one sector. Did people expect swathes of people from the coal or steel based small town to move to their nearest big city where those jobs were located? 

 

Your comment struck a nerve so I went googling for Norman Tebbit - mobility was certainly a thing back in the day and it was the route I followed. The trade off is a detachment from childhood friends and family. 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2023/08/the-absurdity-of-the-tories-on-your-bike-plea

Edited March 27 by Japan Jambo

[Ulysses]

4 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

 It wasn't always realistic to expect a 4th generation miner to retrain to become an electrician, flip burgers or sell insurance. 

 

 

I think the important word in that is "always".  Many people did, and fair play to them.  Most didn't, and that's where the damage got done.

 

It's a simple truth that many people can only see life through the lens of their own experiences, and assume that if it worked out for them it must have been easy for everyone else.  They often have no idea how lucky they were.

 

[Ulysses]

 

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

Missing the point that local industries were devastated. Opportunities in things like the service sector didn't help you if you were located in a small town which was based around one sector. Did people expect swathes of people from the coal or steel based small town to move to their nearest big city where those jobs were located? 

 

Things change, industries come and go, and you shouldn't expect things to stay the same forever.  The trouble with what happened in the 1980s is that the government of the time set out to accelerate the process, with no strategy to manage the changes and transitions while they were happening.  It literally was a case of "the devil take the hindmost".  Many people somehow worked their way through that, but many didn't.  And that was no accident. The overall strategy was to shutter sunset industries while making a labour pool available for the service industries that would replace them.

 

The real trouble comes later.  Young people do not teach themselves or magically learn to be a productive part of society. The have to learn that from the people around them. The cliché is true - if you can't see it, you can't be it.  If you create whole streets and estates made up of people who "can't see it" - and we have - then you have a ready-made recipe for intergenerational failure, with all the familar symptoms of alienation, disengagement, poor health, housing and education, addiction, anti-social behaviour and criminality.

 

In the UK the Tories created that, and New Labour (and in Scotland the SNP) sustained it.  And if anyone thinks for a second that the Faragists are gonna fix it they are seriously deluded.

 

Maybe there is no fix for it, and we should just accept that it'll always be with us.  So let's keep it as it is, keep a lid on these places, and ASBO, fine and jail the miscreants and the troublemakers.  That's all fine, and I don't disagree with any of it - I don't want the neds and the yobs running amok either.  But blaming them for growing up where they did and learning the lessons they did is a bit cheeky, when 99% of us would have done no differently.

 

 

Edited March 27 by Ulysses

[The Mighty Thor]

Wee Rashid was in front of the select committee yesterday mansplaining his Rwanda/Small Boats policy to two female MPs. 

 

How's that going ya wee shitehawk

 

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

18 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Maybe there is no fix for it, and we should just accept that it'll always be with us.  So let's keep it as it is, keep a lid on these places, and ASBO, fine and jail the miscreants and the troublemakers.  That's all fine, and I don't disagree with any of it - I don't want the neds and the yobs running amok either.  But blaming them for growing up where they did and learning the lessons they did is a bit cheeky, when 99% of us would have done no differently.

 

 

'Managed decline' I think was the phrase some Tory or other coined for what you describe above.

 

In the good old days of Empire we could generally rely on giving those troublesome, uneducated, commoner types some rudimentary training and a rifle before sending them off to shoot at brown people and maintain order in the colonies. They could do their running amok there while remaining somehow productive for the motherland and at the same time utterly expendable.

 

What we need is a return to an expansionist foreign policy, imo.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

have no idea how lucky they

Not “‘luck “ for me and many others .  it came from an aspirational attitude , studying and work. 

Edited March 27 by JudyJudyJudy

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Not “‘luck “ for me and many others .  it came from an aspirational attitude , studying and work. 

 

And good fortune.  Same as me.

[Footballfirst]

43 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Wee Rashid was in front of the select committee yesterday mansplaining his Rwanda/Small Boats policy to two female MPs. 

 

How's that going ya wee shitehawk

 

 

The actual numbers for the first quarter in the last few years are revealing.

Q1      Boats   People

2020      32       465

2021       74     1363

2022     147    4548

2023      91     3793

2024      98     4644

[Ulysses]

37 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The actual numbers for the first quarter in the last few years are revealing.

Q1      Boats   People

2020      32       465

2021       74     1363

2022     147    4548

2023      91     3793

2024      98     4644

 

The load efficiency of the boats is improving year on year.  Micko Ryanair could learn a lesson or two from them - or maybe they're learning from him.

[il Duce McTarkin]

55 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Not “‘luck “ for me and many others .  it came from an aspirational attitude , studying and work. 

 

That's utter shite, james. Unless you were born in a sewer and raised by wolves in a country with no access to education or welfare then, to coin a phrase, you wee born 3 - nil up and think that you've scored a hat-trick.

 

54 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

And good fortune.  Same as me.

 

Correct. 

[Japan Jambo]

47 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

The load efficiency of the boats is improving year on year.  Micko Ryanair could learn a lesson or two from them - or maybe they're learning from him.

 

CalMac are already trying to do a deal...

[Ulysses]

24 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

CalMac are already trying to do a deal...

 

Start the boats... ...no, wait.

[The Mighty Thor]

29 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

CalMac are already trying to do a deal...

One way ferry trip and campervan package. 600K no questions answered. 

[Gundermann]

More from the turd world country. 

 

Are the English pumping shit into their waters to try and deter refugees?

 

Nose, spite, face.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68674088

Edited March 27 by Gundermann

[I P Knightley]

27 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

More from the turd world country. 

 

Are the English pumping shit into their waters to try and deter refugees?

 

Nose, spite, face.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68674088

Oxford and Cambridge university students being told not to dip their cox in the river? 

 

Despite being among the cleverest students in the land, they'll probably do it anyway. Mucky buggers. 

[Cade]

Dimwit Gullis being promoted means he gets a larger pension and a much larger golden handshake when he steps down/loses his seat.

This may or may not be why the Tory shitehawks reshuffle every few weeks.

They ken fine they're all getting turfed out so they're bumping up their payoffs and pensions by "getting promoted" then resigning the post/"being fired" a few weeks or months later.

 

It's a grift.

[Mikey1874]

The 1%

 

 

[I P Knightley]

13 minutes ago, Cade said:

Dimwit Gullis being promoted means he gets a larger pension and a much larger golden handshake when he steps down/loses his seat.

This may or may not be why the Tory shitehawks reshuffle every few weeks.

They ken fine they're all getting turfed out so they're bumping up their payoffs and pensions by "getting promoted" then resigning the post/"being fired" a few weeks or months later.

 

It's a grift.

I understood that the Deputy Chairmanship was a party appointment, rather a governmental one. That would mean that any extra money he was entitled to from the appointment would be funded from Tory coffers, not the public purse. 

 

The high turnover of ministers, on the other hand, does lead to extra ministerial salary and pension "entitlements". So, when Heappey and Halfron were replaced, despite only having a few weeks to see out their time in post, that added two more snouts to the trough. 

 

For all Sunak's ineptitude and feebleness, he still saw fit not to give Gullis a ministerial post. Poor chimp. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

9 hours ago, ehcaley said:

I was a 4th generation miner,a highly skilled and qualified coalface electrical engineer who,like most of my colleagues,transferred skills without a problem.Thought I had died and gone to heaven after a few weeks working in Telecoms.

 

 

 

 

That's heartening to hear.  My own auld man had to retrain several times and give up his trade and eventually earned more than his own profession would ever pay but I don't think he ever felt he had gone to heaven.  He worked ridiculous hours in two jobs and often found himself in short term employment.  I've no idea how that must have felt for him but I'm pretty sure the lifestyle he had to lead was a factor in his ill health in later life.  

[Victorian]

NHS satisfaction polling data looks like an interesting foresight into possible voting intentions.  NHS satisfaction is now at a record low.  It's zenith was at the end of the last Labour government.  Interesting is that there's not much between the satisfaction declared by Labour and Tory voters.  

 

Despite small boats being front and centre of Tory MPs' rhetoric,  people are more concerned about things like the NHS and the cost of living.  Is there actually anything left for the clownshow to campaign on?

[i wish jj was my dad]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I think the important word in that is "always".  Many people did, and fair play to them.  Most didn't, and that's where the damage got done.

 

It's a simple truth that many people can only see life through the lens of their own experiences, and assume that if it worked out for them it must have been easy for everyone else.  They often have no idea how lucky they were.

 

I fall into the category of being very lucky.  II think most people who know me well would  probably describe me as a workaholic but more importantly for me is I probably made the right choices at the right time and took advantage of the opportunities as they arose.  Work ethic wouldn't have made much difference if those opportunities hadn't presented themselves and for a lot of people they never do.  Hubris and sneering at folk who didn't get those breaks stems from the very ideology and policies that created the damage in the first place which I think kinda proves my point.

  

[henrysmithsgloves]

12 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Good post James coal like oil and gas was never going to be forever and retraining is always going to be required 

Scargill and the unions brought about their own early demise 

Thatcher and her Tory government brought about the demise of the coal industry,the steel industry,car making industry etc. 

Just showing how little you know !

[Dawnrazor]

21 minutes ago, henrysmithsgloves said:

Thatcher and her Tory government brought about the demise of the coal industry,the steel industry,car making industry etc. 

Just showing how little you know !

Didn't Labour close more pits that Thatcher?

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

NHS satisfaction polling data looks like an interesting foresight into possible voting intentions.  NHS satisfaction is now at a record low.  It's zenith was at the end of the last Labour government.  Interesting is that there's not much between the satisfaction declared by Labour and Tory voters.  

 

Despite small boats being front and centre of Tory MPs' rhetoric,  people are more concerned about things like the NHS and the cost of living.  Is there actually anything left for the clownshow to campaign on?

Yes. Culture wars. 

 

Convince the dafties that the shit state of the country is not down to 14 years of malfeasance but down to being woke or knowing what a woman is. 

 

It'll work too.

 

[henrysmithsgloves]

38 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Didn't Labour close more pits that Thatcher?

About the same, difference was Thatcher decimated it...a wee unbiased read...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/who-killed-the-mines-2401926

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, henrysmithsgloves said:

About the same, difference was Thatcher decimated it...a wee unbiased read...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/who-killed-the-mines-2401926

I'm not standing up for Thatcher or the Tories, but I thought Labour closed more pits.

[henrysmithsgloves]

21 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I'm not standing up for Thatcher or the Tories, but I thought Labour closed more pits.

It's cool bro.. about the same in closing pits ...there was plenty pits that were still viable that the Tories closed,some did require closing,I don't dispute that. One example,the Tories wanted ravenscraig shut,so they made sure the main pit supplier of coking coal was flooded, despite installation of a multi million pound pump😳 The miners stood up for the working class, crush the miners and you can ride roughshod over the rest,and boy did the Tories know this,and have done since😞 They started stockpiling coal years before the strike. Buying heavily subsidised coal from abroad. The bonus scheme introduced late 70s by labour was a contributing factor that split the NUM. 

Edited March 27 by henrysmithsgloves