Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Aye must be garbage watching Aberdeen win most weeks and lift silverware in recent years. Even St.J won the cup. Aberdeen have been building that team going on 5 years now. They have had a far bigger budget than us over that period and still have a bigger budget than us. They've been able to afford to keep key players which isn't our model currently, but hopefully down the line it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Is Darren Barr from Brazil?Fair point...dunno what I was thinking there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Couldn't disagree more. Look at Hibs, Aberdeen and even St Johnstone's squads, hardly a single a overseas player. Guys like McInnes and Tommy Wright wouldn't touch mercenaries like Juanma and Martin with a bargepole. The odd gem like Sow fair enough, but you need a Scottish/British core when you're shopping at our bargain basement level. Bang on the money but remember you will upset the PC brigade by daring to say such a naughty thing like speaking your mind. Did you not know you are only supposed to think these thoughts but don't dare put them on a public Forum which is where people express their views!! but only the ones certain people want to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 why would it put you off? Because they are basically shite. Able to get up for the odd big game but never going to achieve anything of note ever again. We are at about the same level as they are just now, despite having a patchwork side that has not settled yet. I want us to aspire to better than that, and not just aspire to be a decent enough run off the mill Scottish hoofball team. I'm not happy with where we are just now, obviously... I would not be happy with just being Aberdeen or St Johnstone though either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferryjambo99 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Posted on another thread and will post it here. We start more Scottish players than most including Aberdeen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Try telling that to the 3,000 Hearts fans who stood at Easter Road last night screaming at Martin, Kitchen et al to get stuck in. Significant that both were hooked at half time and home grown players came on and at least TRIED. This is not about "bloody" foreigners as you call them but about players having a feel for the Scottish game and its up-and-at-em tempo in local derbies. The only player who started the game who seemed to get it last night was Jamie Walker. Try reading his comments today in the papers about some of the new foreign players - then call him racist. I'm saying there's a difference between saying that a player doesnt have a feel for the Scottish game yet, doesnt understand the importance of the fixture or is on a short term contract and therefore lacks motivation, and saying 'we lost because we had too many foreigners'. Jamie Walker followed the former line of thinking, which is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Posted on another thread and will post it here. We start more Scottish players than most including Aberdeen SHIT THE BED! Don't post facts like that mate... you'll be lynched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Try telling that to the 3,000 Hearts fans who stood at Easter Road last night screaming at Martin, Kitchen et al to get stuck in. Significant that both were hooked at half time and home grown players came on and at least TRIED. This is not about "bloody" foreigners as you call them but about players having a feel for the Scottish game and its up-and-at-em tempo in local derbies. The only player who started the game who seemed to get it last night was Jamie Walker. Try reading his comments today in the papers about some of the new foreign players - then call him racist. I agree totally however surely the "blame" if we are allowed to do such a thing nowadays lies with those who signed these players. Cathro obviously looked at the squad he inherited and didn't fancy them so either he and McPhee have requested these particular players or have asked for this type of player from the DOF who of course has no responsibilty for any of this when it goes wrong. What happened to the looking at the character of the players we bring to the club philosophy did that leave with Robbie, surely they can see that the players we have brought in are not suited to the high tempo physical type of game in Scotland. If Cathro thinks that he can adapt the style of play in Scotland to the way he has been used to in his other jobs then he is not the man for the job I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Bang on the money but remember you will upset the PC brigade by daring to say such a naughty thing like speaking your mind. Did you not know you are only supposed to think these thoughts but don't dare put them on a public Forum which is where people express their views!! but only the ones certain people want to hear. You're absolutely entitled to voice your opinion, but if its ignorant you'll be told so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Bang on the money but remember you will upset the PC brigade by daring to say such a naughty thing like speaking your mind. Did you not know you are only supposed to think these thoughts but don't dare put them on a public Forum which is where people express their views!! but only the ones certain people want to hear. Yeah - and if not, then you are called a Hibs fan - pathetic really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 SHIT THE BED! Don't post facts like that mate... you'll be lynched. SHIT THE BED! Don't post facts like that mate... you'll be lynched. Aye, but there is no point in arguing. I imagine all their Scottish players are more Scottish than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Yeah - and if not, then you are called a Hibs fan - pathetic really No, you're called a Hibs fan because you either are one, or you do a ****ing good impression of one whilst trying to troll Hearts supporters on a Hearts forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamorgan Jambo Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 So why did Cummings look at the Hearts team sheet & know they would win? Too many foreigners that didn't know what to expect is his answer in a round about way & he's not far away from the truth. Cummings said that because the guy is pretty thick. You couldn't get someone more up for the derbies in recent years than players like Ryan McGowan, Rudi Skacel or even Danny Grainger or Stephen Elliott. Tactics and leadership were what was wanting last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Posted on another thread and will post it here. We start more Scottish players than most including Aberdeen I would be very surprised if this were the case since Cathro took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I would be very surprised if this were the case since Cathro took over. Cathro hasn't been here long enough and his signings are on too short contracts for his stats alone to mean anything on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FORTHCLYDE Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I disagree with post the present Arsenal team would win the league if they had Tony Adams or Frank Mclintock playing today. There is plenty of very good players in England who could play for Hearts. It's up to the scouts to find them. English and Scottish players know how to play a derby better than foreign players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 No, you're called a Hibs fan because you either are one, or you do a ******* good impression of one whilst trying to troll Hearts supporters on a Hearts forum. Incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixHearts Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Agreed. The only thing foreigners lack is a familiarity to the Scottish game. Hardly a hard-wired fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The problem is not that they are foreigners The problem is they are the wrong sort of foreigners The riff raff Malaury Martin not Eric Cantina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Cathro hasn't been here long enough and his signings are on too short contracts for his stats alone to mean anything on this subject. So what is the point in posting the league table then so that it shows the stats for a coach who is no longer with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferryjambo99 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I would be very surprised if this were the case since Cathro took over. I've just looked at 6 of cathro's games so far, both raith games, both rangers games and celtic and motherwell. We average 39.3% in those games. However at home to rangers and away to motherwell both had the lowest % of Scottish players at 27%, these have been our best results. It's also worth taking into account that both Paterson and Souttar have picked up long term injuries and Muirhead has been sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Bruno, Flogel, Rousset, Salvatore, Adam, Fuller, Niemi, McKenna, DeVries, Mahe, Valois, Skacel, Miko, Jankauskas, Aguiar, Zaliukas, Fyssas, Bednar, Velicka, Nade, Suso, Elliott, McGowan, Novikovas... Plenty non-Brits know exactly what an Edinburgh derby means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I agree totally however surely the "blame" if we are allowed to do such a thing nowadays lies with those who signed these players. Cathro obviously looked at the squad he inherited and didn't fancy them so either he and McPhee have requested these particular players or have asked for this type of player from the DOF who of course has no responsibilty for any of this when it goes wrong. What happened to the looking at the character of the players we bring to the club philosophy did that leave with Robbie, surely they can see that the players we have brought in are not suited to the high tempo physical type of game in Scotland. If Cathro thinks that he can adapt the style of play in Scotland to the way he has been used to in his other jobs then he is not the man for the job I'm afraid. We are a club that has not won the league since 1959/1960. We have only won the league 4 times in our history and only twice in the last century. We have won the Scottish cup 8 times in our history and the League cup 4 times. Why on earth do we want to continue to play the same style of football that we have done for the last 142/143 years and that has resulted in 127 seasons of winning nothing. Take away 1800's and the golden period between 1954 to 1962, we have won 5 honours. Five honours in all that time. People moan about not winning last night, but unless we change things radically, which is what we are trying to do, we will continue to exist win a trophy once every blue moon. Is change not worth trying, do we not try and change something that may see us take one step back short term for a longer term gain? Is the risk of trying to change not better than the certainty of mediocrity that carrying on the Scottish way will almost certainly see us get? Let's see what happens over next few seasons before we start greeting about one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 So what is the point in posting the league table then so that it shows the stats for a coach who is no longer with us. Because the topic of conversation is the relationship between the number of foreign players and the will to fight/win in big games or derbies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Bruno, Flogel, Rousset, Salvatore, Adam, Fuller, Niemi, McKenna, DeVries, Mahe, Valois, Skacel, Miko, Jankauskas, Aguiar, Zaliukas, Fyssas, Bednar, Velicka, Nade, Suso, Elliott, McGowan, Novikovas... Plenty non-Brits know exactly what an Edinburgh derby means. But the rest of the team they played with at the time - had a backbone of Scottish / British players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellion Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I think we need a core of players who understand and care about the club but I don't care where they come from. It's not about nationality. It's about cohesiveness and having an identity, and you can't measure that by statistics, but we do not have a strong sense of either of those things just now. The stats will only take you so far. Our Scottish players are all (Cowie excepted) young guys just making their way in the game. They're not all ready to be the focal point of the team right now. They don't lead the team in the way that domestic players at some other clubs will. Also, Aberdeen have a lower proportion of Scots, but a much higher % of British or Irish players who've been around the league for a long time. Same goes for Inverness - although they're bottom of the above table, the vast majority of their players have been playing in the SPL for years and could easily be categorised as domestic. Right now, we have too many mercenaries thrown together from totally different backgrounds, and almost constant turnover. In that context, it's hard for the players - most of whom are much more limited than we're told they'll be - to come together from nothing and compete against established sides who've been playing together for some time. It's unfair to expect instant results. But it's also very hard to generate momentum and goodwill without results. It's just a bad way to recruit, and a bad way to run a football club. It has to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 utter rubbish, the whole team went AWOL , don't know what you were watching in the first game, Nicholson done ok when he came on considering he is coming back from a serious injury at least he tried last night , set walker up and had a decent shot which is more than could be said for many of them last night, thought currie also did well , as for walker he can't do it all on his own he needs help and there was hardly any for him last night , if you are going to make a comment try and make a sensible one No it's not both Walker and Nicholson were AWOL in the first game as I was watching them do the square root of **** all. And I know the majority of the team in the first game were garbage as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Don't think it's to do with the foreigners either, even though they aren't of the quality we've had previously. It falls solely at the feet of Levein and Cathro for me. Where is the effort and drive from the players that we see from other clubs, some who are poorer (hibs) There is a negativity around our play these days, which has found us wanting in too many games, especially the important ones. Why aren't the players stepping up when required,? We seem to go into games against these teams worrying more about what they are going to do, rather than what we are going to do. It's a defeatist attitude and they need to get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudiHMFC Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just close minded and ignorant, and frankly embarrassing. The players on the park being foreign had nothing to do with the performance, the lack of heart and desire is. Cheers. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden Caulfield Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 My thoughts are that the young guys that come through the youth system will give more of a **** as playing in the 1st team has been their goal from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Cummings said that because the guy is pretty thick. You couldn't get someone more up for the derbies in recent years than players like Ryan McGowan, Rudi Skacel or even Danny Grainger or Stephen Elliott. Tactics and leadership were what was wanting last night.[/quote Barring Rudi who was an exception to the rule all the others you mention there were brought up with the British style of game and were not afraid to scrap it out where required. Rudi was a winner full stop. I don't see that mentality in any of our current foreign players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 But the rest of the team they played with at the time - had a backbone of Scottish / British players So do our current foreign players you absolute weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 If you replace foreigners with black or even Catholic then you can see what people are getting at when they think it is unfair. Hamilton was responsible for the third goal, Walker and Nicholson never show in big games or many games away from Tynecastle. It's a mindset, a passive attitude throughout the whole group. It is there in virtually every away game going back to the start of 2016 despite us sometimes having more fans than the home team. We need more aggressive players, this is the reason Paterson becomes frequently frustrated, ideally at least one radge in the shape of a Bruno or a hardcase like Brellier. Where the players are from is a lazy judgement that doesn't stand up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought Police Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 If Paterson and Souttar were fit you'd have more British boys in the team than when Burley took charge of his only Edinburgh derby. Circumstances meant we needed cheap foreign free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Because the topic of conversation is the relationship between the number of foreign players and the will to fight/win in big games or derbies. So how many did Robbie win then which is what the table shows mainly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 So how many did Robbie win then which is what the table shows mainly? Go work it out. I can't be arsed... equally can't be arsed with blaming our bad fortune on foreigners though tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Go work it out. I can't be arsed... equally can't be arsed with blaming our bad fortune on foreigners though tbh. Same attitude as our team last night then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Same attitude as our team last night then. What? Not looking up stats? Doubt it... Deliciously ironic that you tried to use the "can't be arsed" argument against me when it was in response to one of your posts where you clearly "couldn't be arsed" finding something out yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellion Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Bruno, Flogel, Rousset, Salvatore, Adam, Fuller, Niemi, McKenna, DeVries, Mahe, Valois, Skacel, Miko, Jankauskas, Aguiar, Zaliukas, Fyssas, Bednar, Velicka, Nade, Suso, Elliott, McGowan, Novikovas... Plenty non-Brits know exactly what an Edinburgh derby means. But the rest of the team they played with at the time - had a backbone of Scottish / British players So do our current foreign players you absolute weapon. It's not the same. The teams in the 90s and 00s all had a strong backbone of experienced players who knew the league, and the imports you've listed were then introduced to those teams. In the mid 90s we had Robbo, Colquhoun, MacKay, McPherson, Fulton etc, later on it was Pressley, Cameron and Severin, and then Hartley, Webster, Black, Kyle and so on. Experienced players, often strong personalities that gave those teams a core and probably made it much easier for the foreign guys to adapt. We do not have that now. We have some Scottish players but, as above, almost all of them are younger guys making their way, not leaders. It's not as straightforward as just counting the Scots. The team has no real spine. We have hardly any consistency because we bin players and sign new ones all the time. We're constantly starting over. It makes it much harder for the foreign guys to "get it" when there's no big figures who've done it before and who can explain what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The foreigner chat is a diversion. It's more to do with the random, seemingly out of nowhere punts we keep gambling on. Oshaniwa should have been a red line for Budge. That should have rung an alarm bell as a deal which brought in an unknown who turned out to be laughably bad. Since then we've had others and it's fair to criticise he policy. No-one at Hearts has a problem with foreigners. Skacel is one of our biggest legends FFS. The issue is with shite nobodies who keep on arriving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 It's outstanding to watch the parallels between modern right wing politics and the filtered through football version. Things are going well: Glad we had those talented foreign mavericks to make a difference. Things aren't going well: Those bloody wage thieving foreigners don't care enough to put in a decent shift. Away and have a look at yourselves you utter cretins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 It's outstanding to watch the parallels between modern right wing politics and the filtered through football version. Things are going well? Glad we had those talented foreign mavericks to make a difference. Things aren't going well: Those bloody wage thieving foreigners don't care enough to put in a decent shift. Away and have a look at yourselves you utter cretins! As I said in my previous post, anyone objecting to foreigners is a dick. Anyone objecting to the apparently random punts we keep taking is bang on the money - as proven by how shite the last 18 months have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The foreigner chat is a diversion. It's more to do with the random, seemingly out of nowhere punts we keep gambling on. Oshaniwa should have been a red line for Budge. That should have rung an alarm bell as a deal which brought in an unknown who turned out to be laughably bad. Since then we've had others and it's fair to criticise he policy. No-one at Leeds has a problem with foreigners. Skacel is one of our biggest legends FFS. The issue is with shite nobodies who keep on arriving Every signing is a risk. The last few recruitment drives have been extremely poor, but this group that has just come in needs more time to show what it is about, and to adapt to the Scottish game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The foreigner chat is a diversion. It's more to do with the random, seemingly out of nowhere punts we keep gambling on. Oshaniwa should have been a red line for Budge. That should have rung an alarm bell as a deal which brought in an unknown who turned out to be laughably bad. Since then we've had others and it's fair to criticise he policy. No-one at Leeds has a problem with foreigners. Skacel is one of our biggest legends FFS. The issue is with shite nobodies who keep on arriving Should it not have been a red line for Levein? or is Budge running everything herself now? She would be as well mind she could probably pick a better player than our DOF can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Should it not have been a red line for Levein? or is Budge running everything herself now? She would be as well mind she could probably pick a better player than our DOF can. Doesn't budge oversee the entire club? If Levein is leading the transfers then how can he be objective in assessing our performance in the market - and deciding what needs to change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Want rid of a manager or director? No chance of building a case based on comparison to previous results under predecessors? Annoyed at getting beaten by a rival? Blame Johnny Foreigner. They look and sound a bit different and as such make a convenient excuse for everyone else doing a shite job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Every signing is a risk. The last few recruitment drives have been extremely poor, but this group that has just come in needs more time to show what it is about, and to adapt to the Scottish game. "This group just needs time..." you can't possibly say that with any certainty. The evidence of previous gluts of signings like the one we saw in January is that most aren't good enough. Why should this be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Doesn't budge oversee the entire club? If Levein is leading the transfers then how can he be objective in assessing our performance in the market - and deciding what needs to change? Our success rate in the transfer market is probably just above 50%. If a manager wins more than 50% of his games, that's usually good enough for 2nd/3rd in this league, which is considered a success for Hearts. Perspective needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I like our overseas players, brings ever ending class to our play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 It's not the same. The teams in the 90s and 00s all had a strong backbone of experienced players who knew the league, and the imports you've listed were then introduced to those teams. In the mid 90s we had Robbo, Colquhoun, MacKay, McPherson, Fulton etc, later on it was Pressley, Cameron and Severin, and then Hartley, Webster, Black, Kyle and so on. Experienced players, often strong personalities that gave those teams a core and probably made it much easier for the foreign guys to adapt. We do not have that now. We have some Scottish players but, as above, almost all of them are younger guys making their way, not leaders. It's not as straightforward as just counting the Scots. The team has no real spine. We have hardly any consistency because we bin players and sign new ones all the time. We're constantly starting over. It makes it much harder for the foreign guys to "get it" when there's no big figures who've done it before and who can explain what it is. That's why we pay a dof and a manager, there are worse teams out there who can lift themselves for a big game, hibs being one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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