Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Walker makes a stupid foul and gets booked. That's "showing passion"? Just feck off! I've seen plenty of gutless performances with plenty of Scots in the team. The 99/00 season in particular had two awful derby performances when our Scottish internationals had the pish ripped out of them by vermin foreigners like Dirk frigging Lehman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Which you will struggle to get a return from if the players don't appreciate what they are getting into and don't give a monkeys. I'm not sure I agree with the don't give a monkeys. Surely they are trying to win an extended contract here or impress other teams abroad (or in the UK) so why would they not give a monkeys? How any times have we read or heard how much more professional foreign players are in their attitude to the game and taking care of themselves over Scottish players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Having a load of foreigners didn't exactly hamper us in 05/06 when we battered them. The issue for me is the lack of a Scottish talisman to drum into the players what this means and to show up on the park and lead by example. I'm talking the likes of Pressley, Webster or christ even Ian Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Not read the whole thread but the problem isn't the fact we have too many foreign players, just too many players who either aren't good enough or are not suited to Scottish football. No-one questioned the attitude of foreign players like Skacel, Adam, Flogel etc, so where they come from is not the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonnicky63 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 That the same Nicholson who was totally AWOL in the first game? Neither him nor Walker are anywhere near consistent enough. utter rubbish, the whole team went AWOL , don't know what you were watching in the first game, Nicholson done ok when he came on considering he is coming back from a serious injury at least he tried last night , set walker up and had a decent shot which is more than could be said for many of them last night, thought currie also did well , as for walker he can't do it all on his own he needs help and there was hardly any for him last night , if you are going to make a comment try and make a sensible one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Yeah Exactly what I've been saying on another thread Too many average foreigners who could not care less about hearts and us fans They are using us as a stepping stone to earn more money elsewhere This time last year half of them had probably never heard of hearts I keep trying to tell you, if they want to use us a stepping stone to the EPL then not caring about big games is totally not the way to go. The problem is all of them, manager included, think they can play this controlled game and pass Hibs off the park. Taking Kitchen off and leaving Tziolis on shows this. They all got it wrong, nothing do with how much they care about Hearts and more about knowing how to play derbies in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I keep trying to tell you, if they want to use us a stepping stone to the EPL then not caring about big games is totally not the way to go. The problem is all of them, manager included, think they can play this controlled game and pass Hibs off the park. Taking Kitchen off and leaving Tziolis on shows this. They all got it wrong, nothing do with how much they care about Hearts and more about knowing how to play derbies in general. yeah fair enough... but take away the Rangers game, when was the last time they showed that they care enough? And you could argue in the Rangers game they would be more likely to be noticed more on tv, etc by other clubs down south if they play well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambosdad Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 yeah fair enough... but take away the Rangers game, when was the last time they showed that they care enough? And you could argue in the Rangers game they would be more likely to be noticed more on tv, etc by other clubs down south if they play well Clocks back to 2012. Why did we roll over Hibs? A reason put forward by many, they were full of loan and short contract players. No team spirit, no cohesion = pumped. Our midfield in recent derbies has been outmuscled by Hibs. Novak should have played. Injuries have not helped but that sounded awful last night. Yes I listened on the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Only Walker, Nicholson and Currie showed any passion and ability tonight. All 3 are Scottish. Coincidence? For me Walker and Nicholson are sand-dancers. We keep trying to talk up Walker, but no other club wants him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 yeah fair enough... but take away the Rangers game, when was the last time they showed that they care enough? And you could argue in the Rangers game they would be more likely to be noticed more on tv, etc by other clubs down south if they play well The Rangers game we just did to them what Hibs did to us. Rangers are even worse than us for this possession obsession and we got in their faces and unsettled them. That aside, we've shown flashes of being able to control games but up here teams will hit you hard and eventually get chances of their own. The Dundee game sums it up for me. We were utterly dominant and playing great stuff until they got one chance from a set piece and then we collapsed. Again I don't think it's about caring, it's about understanding the game here and knowing you can't just stroke the ball about and expect to be allowed to walk past teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I can excuse players who don't get Hearts, some of them will only be here for 6 months. However, where is their professional pride? Much has been made by CL/RN about getting the right players in. I don't see that. Ideas above their stations some of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just close minded and ignorant, and frankly embarrassing. The players on the park being foreign had nothing to do with the performance, the lack of heart and desire is. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Allen Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just close minded and ignorant, and frankly embarrassing. The players on the park being foreign had nothing to do with the performance, the lack of heart and desire is. Cheers. Couldn't disagree more. Look at Hibs, Aberdeen and even St Johnstone's squads, hardly a single a overseas player. Guys like McInnes and Tommy Wright wouldn't touch mercenaries like Juanma and Martin with a bargepole. The odd gem like Sow fair enough, but you need a Scottish/British core when you're shopping at our bargain basement level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Landmesser Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just close minded and ignorant, and frankly embarrassing. The players on the park being foreign had nothing to do with the performance, the lack of heart and desire is. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Couldn't disagree more. Look at Hibs, Aberdeen and even St Johnstone's squads, hardly a single a overseas player. Guys like McInnes and Tommy Wright wouldn't touch mercenaries like Juanma and Martin with a bargepole. The odd gem like Sow fair enough, but you need a Scottish/British core when you're shopping at our bargain basement level. you are correct. Tommy Wrights all conquering Scottish core team would never lose a Scottish cup last 16 game. Who are they playing in quarters again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Short term contracts are the issue. Just so happens most of them on this are foriegn. We do lack players that 'get " Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 It's having players that know the Scottish league. We've too many that are travellers, simply here for a quick stint before f'king off. They are the problem, because they don't care enough, and they seem unwilling to up their tempo to suit the way the game is played in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 you are correct. Tommy Wrights all conquering Scottish core team would never lose a Scottish cup last 16 game. Who are they playing in quarters again? Raised the with Geoff, hibs dumped saints last year. However, we do need a core that understand Scottish football, not necessarily Scottish, buy folk that understand that game and what I'd required. Flinging a side together from all over the world in January isn't going to work in our market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Allen Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 you are correct. Tommy Wrights all conquering Scottish core team would never lose a Scottish cup last 16 game. Who are they playing in quarters again? They're a point behind us in the league with a fraction of our wage bill. Wright was linked with the Rangers job so I think would agree he's built a reasonably solid team on a shoestring budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 It doesn't matter where they come from, players who bounce around from club to club and don't settle anywhere are usually not very good. It just happens we have a few from overseas at the moment but if they were from Scotland the same criticisms would stand ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just close minded and ignorant, and frankly embarrassing. The players on the park being foreign had nothing to do with the performance, the lack of heart and desire is. Cheers. Don't think British players would have accepted being bullied last night, they'd know what it meant. Cummings saying they knew they'd win when they seen team sheet speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie White Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just close minded and ignorant, and frankly embarrassing. The players on the park being foreign had nothing to do with the performance, the lack of heart and desire is. Cheers. You are completely out of touch with the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Couldn't disagree more. Look at Hibs, Aberdeen and even St Johnstone's squads, hardly a single a overseas player. Guys like McInnes and Tommy Wright wouldn't touch mercenaries like Juanma and Martin with a bargepole. The odd gem like Sow fair enough, but you need a Scottish/British core when you're shopping at our bargain basement level. Many people have come out and said that there is better value for money in the foreign market. I'd happily get someone in from overseas like johnsen than someone like Brian Graham or John Sutton, because they'd probably demand similar wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 You are completely out of touch with the argument. How so? I'm saying that I've seen far too many comments on here suggesting that 'foreigners' are the problem, when likely 4 of our best 5 players over the last 10 years were foreigners. It's 2017, being angry is no longer an excuse for being casually racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Drifter Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 OP's right. All clubs and all countries have derbies and just because ours is old it doesn't mean it's bigger or more fiercely contested than, say, the Athens derby. Lenny Sowah was quoted in the press recently talking about having to go play for St Pauli as a Hamburg fan so he knows all about local rivalries too. Hughes will have sampled the Tyne Tees derby a few times I imagine and it's pretty testy sometimes. Besides, Celtic are hardly a team of wall-to-wall Scots and they're plenty able to rouse themselves for Old Firm games. What happened last night was that we tried to play a certain way, Hibs didn't let us, scored early, rattled us, harried us and as the evening went on they broke us. If Cathro thought he had instilled some fight in his players it didn't work, or it wasn't enough. If he thought we could out play them he was wrong, we couldn't. Ultimately there was a disconnect between his tactics/gameplan and the event itself, a blood and thunder derby and cup tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rabbit Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Couldn't disagree more. Look at Hibs, Aberdeen and even St Johnstone's squads, hardly a single a overseas player. Guys like McInnes and Tommy Wright wouldn't touch mercenaries like Juanma and Martin with a bargepole. The odd gem like Sow fair enough, but you need a Scottish/British core when you're shopping at our bargain basement level. Agree with the Op it's an easy way out. Your point about Aberdeen doesn't make sense as they have a similar amount of Scottish players as us. You've also picked out two of our poorer players which i'm sure Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Hibs fans would be able to do the same. Saying that last night was the worst performance I've seen against hibs in my memory. The reason for this i'm not sure but it seems as if there's been an absolute polar flip in mentality between the two clubs in recent games. FWIW i don't think it's all down to us I think that both Stubbs and Lennon just get the derby, whether that be Edinburgh or Old Firm, and they know how to fire players up. I also think that both of them were better motivators than Neilson and Cathro but that's not to say they're better managers. There's more to managing than motivating and although in an ideal world it's something which Cathro would be good at his qualities are based elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 We're all racists anyway, apparently. 'Hibs star Marvin Bartley has put a disgusting Twitter troll in his place with a stinging comeback. The Easter Road midfielder was subjected to horrendous racist abuse online after the Easter Road side hammered rivals Hearts 3-1 in the Scottish Cup on Wednesday night. Hearts fan and Twitter user @StevenLeeHMFC tweeted "a hope that big black jigaboo Marvin Bartley dies. F****** spearchhucker". But brave Bartley delivered the best comeback ever when he replied: "Still alive and kicking pal, hope you?ve recovered from your stuffing last night #WeRunThisCity." Other fans showed their support to the Hibee but Bartley shrugged it off and produced another withering comeback: "I only took offence at first when I thought it read 'big black Jambo' but it never so I?ll get on with my day." http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/hibs-star-marvin-bartley-suffers-9902080 They're not Hearts fans, just racist, neanderthal dicks who'd be better served supporting a club along the M8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 How so? I'm saying that I've seen far too many comments on here suggesting that 'foreigners' are the problem, when likely 4 of our best 5 players over the last 10 years were foreigners. It's 2017, being angry is no longer an excuse for being casually racist. Get a grip of yourself with your pish casually racist nonsense. The fact that some of the players who have came in over this season are not suited to the Scottish game want too much time on the ball and frankly just don't care as much about the derby game, the fans hurting etc has a hell of a lot to do with why we lost the game. I agree with you we have had some excellent players from abroad in the past but in this batch there are too many luxury players who we can't afford to carry in games where workrate comes before ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 How is it racist . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Couldn't disagree more. Look at Hibs, Aberdeen and even St Johnstone's squads, hardly a single a overseas player. Guys like McInnes and Tommy Wright wouldn't touch mercenaries like Juanma and Martin with a bargepole. The odd gem like Sow fair enough, but you need a Scottish/British core when you're shopping at our bargain basement level. Nonsense. Were you saying this when Romanov took over, signed a load of 'foreigners', and we beat Hibs convincingly nearly every time with a bunch of 'Liths' making up a chunk of that team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie White Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 How so? I'm saying that I've seen far too many comments on here suggesting that 'foreigners' are the problem, when likely 4 of our best 5 players over the last 10 years were foreigners. It's 2017, being angry is no longer an excuse for being casually racist. With these words you make my case. Thanks. Nice to know you can't call someone foreign anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Couldn't disagree more. Look at Hibs, Aberdeen and even St Johnstone's squads, hardly a single a overseas player. Guys like McInnes and Tommy Wright wouldn't touch mercenaries like Juanma and Martin with a bargepole. The odd gem like Sow fair enough, but you need a Scottish/British core when you're shopping at our bargain basement level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Nonsense. Were you saying this when Romanov took over, signed a load of 'foreigners', and we beat Hibs convincingly nearly every time with a bunch of 'Liths' making up a chunk of that team? We also had a ?10m plus wage budget. If you pay for better quality, fair enough. We don't have the budget to pay a rudi, nade, Edgar, etc ?10k a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just close minded and ignorant, and frankly embarrassing. The players on the park being foreign had nothing to do with the performance, the lack of heart and desire is. Cheers. Agreed. It's like Nathan Barley was actually a seer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 With these words you make my case. Thanks. Nice to know you can't call someone foreign anymore. You can't blame a bad performance on Hearts playing too many 'bloody foreigners'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 He's not spot on at all! The thought of watching those teams week in and week out would put me right off football. GTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 He's not spot on at all! The thought of watching those teams week in and week out would put me right off football. GTF! why would it put you off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Agree. Foreigners are not the issue here. Some of our greatest players have been foreigners - and theres no shortage of foreign starts who have 'got' Hearts and understood whats required of them. The problems we currently have are nothing to do with nationality. Buying brits / scots is not a method of guaranteeing things wil get better. Getting the RIGHT people in is the answer - wherever they might be from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 So why did Cummings look at the Hearts team sheet & know they would win? Too many foreigners that didn't know what to expect is his answer in a round about way & he's not far away from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romulus Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 He's not spot on at all! The thought of watching those teams week in and week out would put me right off football. GTF! Aye must be garbage watching Aberdeen win most weeks and lift silverware in recent years. Even St.J won the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 So why did Cummings look at the Hearts team sheet & know they would win? Too many foreigners that didn't know what to expect is his answer in a round about way & he's not far away from the truth. Because the manager has instilled a winning mentality in him? Because he's an extremely confident (and arrogant) individual? Because he personally has an excellent record against Hearts? I'd suggest all three played more of a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Short term contracts, player turnover and ofc quality is the issue, not nationality. Imo, we do need a core, nationality is irrelevant, bit we do need a core and stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Because the manager has instilled a winning mentality in him? Because he's an extremely confident (and arrogant) individual? Because he personally has an excellent record against Hearts? I'd suggest all three played more of a part. He could be all that without the team sheet tho. The team sheet screams journey men and then add it to your list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Aye must be garbage watching Aberdeen win most weeks and lift silverware in recent years. Even St.J won the cup. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 So why did Cummings look at the Hearts team sheet & know they would win? Too many foreigners that didn't know what to expect is his answer in a round about way & he's not far away from the truth. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 We also had a ?10m plus wage budget. If you pay for better quality, fair enough. We don't have the budget to pay a rudi, nade, Edgar, etc ?10k a week. Cesny and Miko will not have been on much at all. Regardless, what logic is there to us not being able to afford a half decent foreigner? The majority of countries are miles ahead of what Scotland can produce! The likes of Goncalves, Struna and Tziolis are more than good enough for the SPFL. But we just aren't getting the most out of them - whether that be tactics or training. Compete knee jerk reaction as usual from the majority of supporters. Funnily enough, I don't remember many complaining about foreigners when we humped Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie White Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 You can't blame a bad performance on Hearts playing too many 'bloody foreigners'. Try telling that to the 3,000 Hearts fans who stood at Easter Road last night screaming at Martin, Kitchen et al to get stuck in. Significant that both were hooked at half time and home grown players came on and at least TRIED. This is not about "bloody" foreigners as you call them but about players having a feel for the Scottish game and its up-and-at-em tempo in local derbies. The only player who started the game who seemed to get it last night was Jamie Walker. Try reading his comments today in the papers about some of the new foreign players - then call him racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Short term contracts, player turnover and ofc quality is the issue, not nationality. Imo, we do need a core, nationality is irrelevant, bit we do need a core and stability. This is the issue. We had more foreigners and less home grown players than Hibs in 2012 but we had a team that knew what needed to be done via a group of players not invested in it. Every one of the 5 goals was from a foreigner We should be at a stage in our squad building where we are supplementing the core with key additions. That we are not is a failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five to One Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Most of the posts I've read are advocating for more of a balance to the squad. I have nothing against foreign players complementing the squad and adding a bit of extra quality. What I do take issue with is recruiting guff to permeate an already underachieving squad based purely upon a few scouting videos and the hype of agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romulus Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 This is the issue. We had more foreigners and less home grown players than Hibs in 2012 but we had a team that knew what needed to be done via a group of players not invested in it. Every one of the 5 goals was from a foreigner We should be at a stage in our squad building where we are supplementing the core with key additions. That we are not is a failure Is Darren Barr from Brazil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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