Even More SNP Nonsense

[Captain Sausage]

Yeah, stats, eh?!

 

I guess the thing regards the economy is that it was expected to show recession but for that first quarter did much better and outperformed rUK.

 

Fair point regards the financial pressures on the Scottish NHS. One could be flippant and say that if the Scottish Govt didn't have to mitigate for Westminster benefit changes (bedroom tax, rape clause etc) then more money could go to it - I'm sure there would be an equal response saying they don't use all their budget. I thiknk the main point regards the NHS is that the structure in place in Scotland is good and performs better than rUK, so we should be proud of it and make sure our politicians dont underfund.

 

Re the Police chief, yeah, nothing where he takes blame, but it seems that he was universally criticised.

 

As I've stated before, I'm no SNP apparatchik, or supporter for that matter, but to me at least, there appears a concerted effort to dismiss the Holyrood government at all turns, and an inability to give credit where it is due (I don't mean you personally btw!)

 

So the economic figures....had they been bad, you can bet your erse that would have headlined on Good Morning Scotland. Why weren't the "good" figures top of the bill? (Takes off tin foil hat...)

Totally agree with your points. It goes back to what I'd said earlier. I get very frustrated with certain posters who refuse to engage in level headed debate because they feel some loyalty to a specific party.

 

Scotland outperformed the U.K. in one quarter, but over the annual period we were drastically behind.

 

I do believe we have an NHS to be proud of but the argument is fairly easy to make either way.

 

And the police Scotland point was a load of nonsense.

 

I would say though that the economic figures were newsworthy. But, again, they make for a quick sound bite. What do they actually tell us? We are still underperforming. That's shown by the longer term statistics. We should be addressing that, not trying to point score by focusing in on a very specific stat and taking it out of context.

[Captain Sausage]

Still no happy? FFS!! :-/

Not really. Boris provided some balanced articles referencing stats and information which you eluded to. However, the same articles also provided a wider context which showed your post to, yet again, be entirely incorrect.

[XB52]

What a load of claptrap. What is suffering in Scotland is the economy, the NHS, Education, The police force and who's responsible or has a major input for of all those things? That's right the SNP "government".  The only thing the cult are putting first is their obsession with independence. 

Economy - 4 times the growth of the rest of the UK in the last quarter. The NHS, best performing NHS in the UK, Education - yes lots needs done on this. Police force - lowest crime rates in 40 years and highest detection rates. So glad you agree that the Government is responsible for this  

[JamboX2]

Is Scotland a basket case? Not really.

Is the UK a basket case? No, not really.

Is the EU a basket case? Nah, not in particular.

 

Do I disagree with certain decisions made by those running each institution? Yes. Hugely.

 

I fail to see how we can't all accept this and then debate the bits in contention. Far too much black and white here. Scotland has lagged but now exceeds UK wide growth stats. But equally what does it all matter when that wealth creation isn't being translated into higher pay and a better standard of living?

 

Equally, we all agree policing could be better run and costs cut. But does I mean abolish BTP and one super-force with minimal political accountability? No.

 

All in all we're not living in a banana republic but nor is it all roses.

[SwindonJambo]

Economy - 4 times the growth of the rest of the UK in the last quarter. The NHS, best performing NHS in the UK, Education - yes lots needs done on this. Police force - lowest crime rates in 40 years and highest detection rates. So glad you agree that the Government is responsible for this

Welcome as a good quarter of economic performance is, to make a comparison on the economy over a single quarter of very good figures would be absolutely ludicrous, regardless of which side it favoured. A meaningful comparison can only be made over a longer period of years with statistical blips and seasonal factors evened out. Whatever side you're on, let's of course all hope that it continues.

 

As a non supporter, I am actually very impressed with what the SNP has done on transport. To fix up the Raith Interchange, M73,M74 junction and complete the M8 missing link is long overdue. I am from that area and I'm glad it's finally been sorted as the traffic in the area has long been terrible. The new Forth Crossing and Border Railway also deserve a big mention.

 

I'm not sure dualling the A9 to Inverness is the best use of ?3bn but no doubt it will be good once done and likewise the longer term plan of dualling the Inverness-Aberdeen road.

Edited July 10, 2017 by SwindonJambo

[Seymour M Hersh]

Economy - 4 times the growth of the rest of the UK in the last quarter. The NHS, best performing NHS in the UK, Education - yes lots needs done on this. Police force - lowest crime rates in 40 years and highest detection rates. So glad you agree that the Government is responsible for this  

 

Is that the quarter they narrowly avoided going into recession and were back slapping each other? 

[pablo]

Rather than comparing Scotland's economy with the UK's, I'd prefer to see the comparison against the other regions.

 

London and the SE is a different beast.

 

But I'd like to think that we outperform all other regions given the additional powers Scotland enjoys.

Edited July 10, 2017 by pablo

[Captain Sausage]

Rather than comparing Scotland's economy with the UK's, I'd prefer to see the comparison against the other regions.

 

London and the SE is a different beast.

 

But I'd like to think that we outperform all other regions given the additional powers Scotland enjoys.

Interesting point. Not sure if that analysis has been done, but I'd be really interested in seeing it.

[Space Mackerel]

Welcome as a good quarter of economic performance is, to make a comparison on the economy over a single quarter of very good figures would be absolutely ludicrous, regardless of which side it favoured. A meaningful comparison can only be made over a longer period of years with statistical blips and seasonal factors evened out. Whatever side you're on, let's of course all hope that it continues.

 

As a non supporter, I am actually very impressed with what the SNP has done on transport. To fix up the Raith Interchange, M73,M74 junction and complete the M8 missing link is long overdue. I am from that area and I'm glad it's finally been sorted as the traffic in the area has long been terrible. The new Forth Crossing and Border Railway also deserve a big mention.

 

I'm not sure dualling the A9 to Inverness is the best use of ?3bn but no doubt it will be good once done and likewise the longer term plan of dualling the Inverness-Aberdeen road.

A9 is well overdue, the fatalities on that were horrendous. In fact, thanks to the AS Cameras now, the death toll is minuscule to what it was. To say that the North of Scotland doesn't need decent road links to everywhere else shows your lack of understanding tbh. In fact, as someone who travels throughout Scotland daily, I find it patronising as **** that someone who lives in Swindon now can pass comment on this.

[Space Mackerel]

Interesting point. Not sure if that analysis has been done, but I'd be really interested in seeing it.

7 years of austerity and you want to compare Scotland to the the South East of England. And after all that QE that went exactly where, ah, right back to the banks to build up their capital, from you mugs, the taxpayers. Done up like kippers. [emoji23]

[Captain Sausage]

7 years of austerity and you want to compare Scotland to the the South East of England. And after all that QE that went exactly where, ah, right back to the banks to build up their capital, from you mugs, the taxpayers. Done up like kippers. [emoji23]

Eh? I said I would like to see a study reviewing England EXCLUDING London and Scotland.

 

Deary me SM. Back in your box.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Eh? I said I would like to see a study reviewing England EXCLUDING London and Scotland.

 

Deary me SM. Back in your box.

 

This will be ignored.

[Boris]

Rather than comparing Scotland's economy with the UK's, I'd prefer to see the comparison against the other regions.

London and the SE is a different beast.

But I'd like to think that we outperform all other regions given the additional powers Scotland enjoys.

  

Interesting point. Not sure if that analysis has been done, but I'd be really interested in seeing it.

Agreed. Also the various Barnett consequentials these regions benefit from too.

[Captain Sausage]

 

Agreed. Also the various Barnett consequentials these regions benefit from too.

I'll do some digging tomorrow and see if there's anything easily comparable.

[Boris]

I'll rephrase the Barnett thing....some regions in England have a higher per capita public spend than the base, and naturally some lower.

[Space Mackerel]

Eh? I said I would like to see a study reviewing England EXCLUDING London and Scotland.

 

Deary me SM. Back in your box.

Why don't you ask George Osbourne, he was going to make the North of England a new economic powerhouse last time I heard. How did that go?

[Space Mackerel]

As I quoted off Twitter, the success of the Union now is how much people want Scotland to fail.

 

A damning thought process in the Yoons brain cells.

[Arnold Rothstein]

It's hilarious that the same individuals who accuse people of believing everything they read in "the MSM" are the same halfwits who swallow everything they read in WOS, The National etc. It's brilliant how black and white the world can be if you want it to be..... 

[JamboX2]

http://www.newstatesman.com/world/2017/07/tensions-mount-over-catalonias-independence-vote-and-madrid-wont-back-down-easily

 

Interesting article on Catalonia for anyone interested.

[SwindonJambo]

A9 is well overdue, the fatalities on that were horrendous. In fact, thanks to the AS Cameras now, the death toll is minuscule to what it was. To say that the North of Scotland doesn't need decent road links to everywhere else shows your lack of understanding tbh. In fact, as someone who travels throughout Scotland daily, I find it patronising as **** that someone who lives in Swindon now can pass comment on this.

Only you could take offence at a post where I was actually complementing the Scottish Government on their transport policy. I'm very impressed on that particular part of their work.I've been to Inverness a couple of times in recent years and used that A9. I commend the addition of the AS Cameras.

 

The M74/M73/M8/Raith Interchange especially pleases me as a native of the area.

 

Yes the A9 is long overdue but money is tight. There were plans to electrify more railway lines into Queen Street and route more services into QS low level, which would have cost around ?600m and provided tens of thousands of people with a viable alternative to commuting into Glasgow. But it was shelved for a scaled down plan.

 

Still, i will repeat that it will be good once the A9 is complete nonetheless and if the ?3bn is spread over a number of years then the costs bearable. And hopefully it will pay for itself over time with economic benefits, as well as improved safety.

[JamboX2]

What a lot of pish. In reality the SNP have little economic levers over the economy, the SNHS was reported to be a benchmark last week, and the education system is supposedly failing because people compare it to European models such as pedagogy. It's tragic that you believe every nonsensical soundbite spewed out by MSM.

 

If you had any inclination of not belittling Scotland then you'd at least have the wit to avoid blaming the SNP for matters out with their control. I stand by it, you'll happily see Scotland suffer as long as the SNP suffer a similar fate.

See this type of thing, it's really annoying.

 

I've not yet met a unionist nor a non-SNP voter want to see their own prospects, their childrens or their communities suffer any fate which is bad. Not one. They just disagree that Independence is the best way forward and believe it or not HD some disagree with SNP policies on things you've mentioned.

 

Political differences of opinion are an acceptable part of life except in Scotland. Just because you don't agree with the SNP doesn't mean you hate Scotland and want it to burn.

 

This stuff is as childish as those who wrap themselves in the union flag and listen to the band of the Coldstream guards to proclaim their nationhood and frankly is as self-defeating of your cause as that pish is for the anti-independence/ pro-union movement.

[Space Mackerel]

Majority -1 as of today

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40555639

 

Tick tock.

[Space Mackerel]

I think that was evident with the news that transpired this week. How Labour, the Tories, and the Lib Dems responded tells you everything you need to know.

Yep, they were all geared up on Radio and BBC Scotland then the figures came out.

 

It's utterly tragic that even the brightest posters on here can't see what's going on.

[Space Mackerel]

Devastated that there was no recession, all geared up and waiting for it to happen.

Wait till Brexit happens then they will go into full swing.

Torys blaming SNP for Tory infighting and wrecking the economy. But still the usual UJ apologists on here will still lap it up from the BBC, Sky and the Yoon red tops.

 

Frightening how thick the electorate are these days.

[Arnold Rothstein]

It's entirely true.  He was blaming the SNP for something out with their control.  What you extract from that? 

 

Also, there are a percentage of Scots who would willingly see the country suffer as long as the SNP suffer alongside it.  Your beloved party developed the Bain Principle, that alone is enough evidence.

 

Will you concede that there is also a percentage of Scots who would willingly see the country suffer as long as independence was gained?

[Arnold Rothstein]

Wait till Brexit happens then they will go into full swing.

Torys blaming SNP for Tory infighting and wrecking the economy. But still the usual UJ apologists on here will still lap it up from the BBC, Sky and the Yoon red tops.

 

Frightening how thick the electorate are these days.

 

 

It's astonishing those of us who don't vote SNP can get ourselves dressed in the morning frankly.

[Space Mackerel]

It's astonishing those of us who don't vote SNP can get ourselves dressed in the morning frankly.

Here Arnie, tell us what happened to all that QE that was going to make the economy alright again? And where all the money went.

 

After you've done up your tie,bpolished your brogues and checked that good old stiff upper lip old bean, of course. There's a good chap.

[Space Mackerel]

Will you concede that there is also a percentage of Scots who would willingly see the country suffer as long as independence was gained?

Almost like a David Davies or Boris Johnson statement about Brexit. [emoji23]

[Arnold Rothstein]

Here Arnie, tell us what happened to all that QE that was going to make the economy alright again? And where all the money went.

 

After you've done up your tie,bpolished your brogues and checked that good old stiff upper lip old bean, of course. There's a good chap.

Black or white. Good or bad. In or out. Left or right.

 

You live in what must be a tiring world of extremes.

[Space Mackerel]

Black or white. Good or bad. In or out. Left or right.

 

You live in what must be a tiring world of extremes.

Not really. I'm quite well off. What bothers me is intellectual poverty in this day and age, you being a prime example.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Not really. I'm quite well off. What bothers me is intellectual poverty in this day and age, you being a prime example.

Please please tell us again about your wealth Spacey......

[Space Mackerel]

Please please tell us again about your wealth Spacey......

7 O levels, 2 Highers. ONC too.

[JamboX2]

It's entirely true. He was blaming the SNP for something out with their control. What you extract from that?

 

Also, there are a percentage of Scots who would willingly see the country suffer as long as the SNP suffer alongside it. Your beloved party developed the Bain Principle, that alone is enough evidence.

Economic policy? I agree a lot of that is reserved - some for good reason. However, the Scottish Parliament can do a lot with regards to supply in the economy: infrastructure provision to support industry, lay the ground work for new industries and do more to provide the skills and training needed to employ people in emerging industries. By the views of some in the SNP - particularly that final point not enough is being done.

 

There is a definite policy drought and a degree of inertia in the Scottish Government at present. The best they could do on schools was a watered down free school/academy plan.

 

And utter rot on your last point. It serves no one in Scotland for that to happen. No one. What is the "Bain principle"?

[JamboX2]

Almost like a David Davies or Boris Johnson statement about Brexit. [emoji23]

To be fair, they've been saying "Remoaners" would rather Britain suffer to make Brexit fail. Which is what you and HD are telling us about Scotland in the Union... it's all deflection.

[Hasselhoff]

To be fair, they've been saying "Remoaners" would rather Britain suffer to make Brexit fail. Which is what you and HD are telling us about Scotland in the Union... it's all deflection.

Was going to post the same. SNP, Hunky "I've never voted SNP" Dory, Spacey etc. all want the UK to fail badly with Brexit and willingly want the people to suffer. For some reason,they trust and quote the CBI, Fraser of Allander etc. with their warnings about Brexit but think it is just scaremongering when the SAME experts cast doubt on the merits of independence.

[Boris]

I'm not sure it's about Britain failing per se, it's more to do with who is leading Britain over the precipice.

 

 

[Hasselhoff]

The Bain Principle originates from something someone in Labour once tweeted and you expect people to have heard of it? On further Googling, I see that it is Wings over Scotland that invented the term.

 

Perhaps SNP need to move away from the Sturgeon Principle in order to be taken seriously.

 

What's the Sturgeon Principle?

 

"The case for full self-government ultimately transcends the issues of Brexit, of oil, of national wealth and balance sheets and of passing political fads and trends.?

 

(she said it in a newspaper article once)

 

She will never look at evidence or warnings from experts and come to the conclusion that independence is not the answer. Someone that won't and can't change their mind on something is not a level headed person willing to go with what is best.

[jambos are go!]

I voted remain, so did a massive percentage of Independence supporters.  Why would I want a badly handled Brexit given that I reside in Belgium, I'd be screwing myself over given what might transpire over the next 18 months.

 

It'd have been easier to get on board with Brexit if May wasn't bulldozing her way through negotiations making demands and antagonizing everyone during every stage of the process.  Whatever happens from here, it's entirely self-inflicted.

A majority of independence supporters voted remain at a level you condsider massive. Its no much greater than the support for the Union that independence supports refuse to accept!

[Hasselhoff]

I voted remain, so did a massive percentage of Independence supporters. Why would I want a badly handled Brexit given that I reside in Belgium, I'd be screwing myself over given what might transpire over the next 18 months.

 

It'd have been easier to get on board with Brexit if May wasn't bulldozing her way through negotiations making demands and antagonizing everyone during every stage of the process. Whatever happens from here, it's entirely self-inflicted.

EU have being quite antagonistic throughout the process too but you are so anti-tory that you will side with whoever is against them. If May wasn't making demands for what the UK should get out of this separation, people like you would be saying she is giving up without a fight like a wimp. Dont pretend you would ever give the UK government your backing or support. Brexit failing badly is what Nats are hoping for as they think it furthers the case for independence

[Doogz]

The Bain Principle is alive and well.  It was taken from a communication from a Labour councilor and not developed by Wings as you incorrectly stated.

 

What was the last positive thing Dugdale or Davidson said about Scotland?  Exactly.

 

Try reading his post again.

[Space Mackerel]

There's fighting your corner and getting the best deal, and then there's May.

 

Never forget why we've reached this point, to settle an internal tory squabble that went unanswered for 40 years.

Never ever forget.

 

[Hasselhoff]

The Bain Principle is alive and well. It was taken from a communication from a Labour councilor and not developed by Wings as you incorrectly stated.

 

What was the last positive thing Dugdale or Davidson said about Scotland? Exactly.

The definition "Bain Principle" was invented by Wings as it is the title of his blog entry. You talked about it as if it should have been widely known. It is about as valid as the Sturgeon Principle above - she said those exact words too

[Space Mackerel]

Never ever forget

 

[Hasselhoff]

Never ever forget.

 

So in an indy Scotland, should it ever happen, you would want all no voters to remain anti-indy and do their best to sabotage the country going it alone? I would hope that we would be democratic and if the majority voted for indy, the rest of us would have to get on with making it work. May was a remainer as were a lot of people but the people of the UK voted leave and that is what should happen.

[Doogz]

Never ever forget

 

 

 

Never ever forget

 

 

(Am I doing this right ?  )

[Space Mackerel]

Never ever forget

 

 

(Am I doing this right ? )

Nope, you're a million miles away pal, as per norm.

 

[Space Mackerel]

It should be known given that the practice has existed in Scotland for years. It's not a coincidence that slabour and the tories never talk of Scotland in a positive light, and criticize every single SNP policy.

Even crazier that Corbyn is now copying SNP policy and May is begging for his help over Brexit.

 

You couldn't make it up.

[JamboX2]

Decent suggestions but how long before tangible results would be achieved? There are no economic levers available at this time, it's either down to ignorance or stupidity that he'd be blaming the SNP for our fragile economic position.

 

Google the "Bain Principle" and enlighten yourself. I'm surprised a learned individual such as yourself is not aware of it.

There are levers. I just set them out to you. The question on time till effects are seen applies to all economic policy. All of it.

 

I'll look it up. As JFK said "the greater our knowledge increases, the more our ignorance unfolds"...

[JamboX2]

A sweeping exaggerated generalization as always from you lot. She stands up in FMQs every week and quotes experts.

Who back her view. Whilst many opposition, and some backbenchers in the SNP, quote reports from SPiCE, Audit Scotland and experts opposing her views. It's almost as though FMQs (like PMQs) aren't the best place for reasoned debate to occur.

[Boris]

To go back to this "Bain Principle" - it's quite obvious that Labour's inability to concede support for SNP policies that they themselves admire is doing it no favours whatsover.

 

It also makes it easier to brand them Red Tories.  They are shooting themselves in the foot.