New Stand: Ongoing work (updated)

[Tasavallan]

1 hour ago, Toggie88 said:

 

FWIW, I think several mistakes have probably been made with this project but the biggest was not appointing a main contractor to oversee the entire build. 

 

 

Would tend to agree, except the schedule went off the rails which likely would have cost the club more to meet completion milestones with a main contractor.  Going with separate subcontractors meant work could be segmentised, however there should have been a PMC appointed to oversee the design, procurement and construction.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

 

I don't think fellow Hearts fans who don't feel the new stand has been controversially handled makes them "apologists". I also think kickback is literally the only place I ever see this annoying word used these days. 

 

Apart from the basic structure itself, if we were to list all the improvements,  changes to design, temporary or permanent add-ons to the Wheatfield and the main stand,  the pitch and remodeling of the police box, the unforeseen problems that were often occurred,  changing of the toilets etc;

 

I mean,  a full breakdown rather than just saying it jumped from 11m up to 18m,  as if this is unexplainable, perhaps it wouldn't worry you so much?

 

I suppose it makes a wee change from "Pant Wetters".

[Blacky87]

Don't get what the drama is. Budge knows what she's doing, financially. Club is healthy. We've got a cracking new stand. Pieman is nothing but a footnote in our history. 

Personally I get quite a wee buzz seeing the new stand walking to the stadium. ? 

[kimosavi]

When do the Big Screens go up????

[mitch41]

10 minutes ago, Blacky87 said:

Don't get what the drama is. Budge knows what she's doing, financially. Club is healthy. We've got a cracking new stand. Pieman is nothing but a footnote in our history. 

Personally I get quite a wee buzz seeing the new stand walking to the stadium. ? 

You mention the Pieman. Has he got anything to do with Hearts, remembering his speciality was catering.

Does he get any special treatment in the new main stand like access to the boardroom hospitality.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, mitch41 said:

You mention the Pieman. Has he got anything to do with Hearts, remembering his speciality was catering.

Does he get any special treatment in the new main stand like access to the boardroom hospitality.

Pie man gets all the special treatment on match days 

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Mid Calder Jambo said:

 

Toggie you are absolutely right.  We are in a much better place regardless of the cost with the stand and facilities we have now,  Why people are getting so precious about £11m, £15m , £18m or whatever.  Get flippin over it.  We have a fantatic money making facility it is now time to move on, get over it and push to become the best Football club in Scotland both on and off the pitch.

 

 

Because financial mismanagement almost saw our club cease to exist maybe?! It's begs questions around where else are we a little loose with financial management which is a concern.

 

Also it is c.£6m that could have been spent on the playing side of the business.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Taffin

[Mr Sifter]

22 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

When do the Big Screens go up????

 

I’d like to know this too ??

[Julie1957]

It’s ok spending £18m on stand.It is a football stadium and the pitch size is not fit for purpose.100mx64. Should be 105 x68m.

[kila]

Just now, Julie1957 said:

It’s ok spending £18m on stand.It is a football stadium and the pitch size is not fit for purpose.100mx64. Should be 105 x68m.

 

Have you told Liverpool that their pitch size is not fit for purpose either after all that spend on their new stand (they widened but still only 101m in length)? Chelsea, Everton, Crystal Palace too are short of the 'regulation size'.

 

 

 

[mitch41]

11 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Pie man gets all the special treatment on match days 

Well that really surprises me. I’d of thought Ann Budge would of taken the view that Robinson was not

the kind of person our fans would have getting special treatment in our new main stand when he was 

behind selling our home after getting us into £20 million plus of debt. 

[been here before]

2 hours ago, stotty said:

The wee clock is a welcome addition! 

 

Wee clocks been there a good couple of years now.

[heartsfc_fan]

17 minutes ago, Julie1957 said:

It’s ok spending £18m on stand.It is a football stadium and the pitch size is not fit for purpose.100mx64. Should be 105 x68m.

Get your car serviced yet Julie?

[Justin Z]

Although I'm not personally overly concerned with the increase in the cost, I am simultaneously baffled by people who say "eh what's the difference between 11 and 18 million quid"? Well, seven million pounds, for starters. It's not pocket change. Am I confident the club/Ann are handling it as needed? Yes. Is it unreasonable to be concerned by the increase? Absolutely not.

[Blacky87]

Regardless Mitch, the pieman is irrelevant, it was merely a comparison to lesser times. We have a new stand. A fresh start and we're not about to fold. 

Ann wouldn't sign off on the extras if it would cripple the club. So if it costs £18m that's what it costs. 

It's upto us to stop squabbling amongst ourselves and fill it 

[Blacky87]

23 minutes ago, Julie1957 said:

It’s ok spending £18m on stand.It is a football stadium and the pitch size is not fit for purpose.100mx64. Should be 105 x68m.

Fill in the corners. Remove a couple rows of seats. ?

[Mid Calder Jambo]

26 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Because financial mismanagement almost saw our club cease to exist maybe?! It's begs questions around where else are we a little loose with financial management which is a concern.

 

Also it is c.£6m that could have been spent on the playing side of the business.

 

I am well aware of the fact that financial mismanagement nearly cost us the club, and as financal supporters the Foundation aims to ensure that ir will never happen again. You have seen the annual accounts since AB took over, as i have, and i don't see any signs of financial mismanagement now.  Yes £6m on the playing staff would have great, but would it won us anything in an era when Septic are absolutly dominant, i think not. This was a major and evolving construction project and it is very nearly the norm that they over run on cost. 

 

So my advice to those griping about the cost is; One, suck it up and enjoy the new facilities or Two, remove those in chrge when the Foundation takes over. I will enjoy the new facilities.

[Ribble]

33 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Because financial mismanagement almost saw our club cease to exist maybe?! It's begs questions around where else are we a little loose with financial management which is a concern.

 

Also it is c.£6m that could have been spent on the playing side of the business.

 

Over time the stand will more than pay for itself regardless of the initial outlay. 

 

Every construction project goes over budget, I’d even wager that the non disclosed estimates for the stand would have been closer to 18 than 11 but it’s easier to ask benefactors for cash when you are a million short of 11 rather than 8 short of 18!

[kingantti1874]

50 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Because financial mismanagement almost saw our club cease to exist maybe?! It's begs questions around where else are we a little loose with financial management which is a concern.

 

Also it is c.£6m that could have been spent on the playing side of the business.

 

The extra spend making sure hospitality is bang on the money will generate millions year on year for re investment in the playing side..

 

in term of the original spec large construction projects are notoriously difficult to fully estimate, becuase they take so long they are open to fluctuations in price.  For an example - see every stadium build ever! But spurs is a good one.. £400million over budget

[Jambo, Goodbye]

2 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

I suppose it makes a wee change from "Pant Wetters".

This is true ?

[Taffin]

29 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

The extra spend making sure hospitality is bang on the money will generate millions year on year for re investment in the playing side..

 

in term of the original spec large construction projects are notoriously difficult to fully estimate, becuase they take so long they are open to fluctuations in price.  For an example - see every stadium build ever! But spurs is a good one.. £400million over budget

 

 

I'm well aware of the pricing fluctuations in construction projects as I work in the industry for a major civils and utilities supplier. I don't have an issue with it being over budget, what I do have an issue with is it being over budget, incomplete, underwhelming in parts and no detailed breakdown of costs or explanations why.

 

Do I think it's a big issue? No. I reckon Ann has it in hand, do I think the whole project has been a bit of a debacle? Yes.

 

Given where we've been, those who just say "11m, 15m or 18m it's all the same" worry me. Head in the sand stuff.

[kimosavi]

1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

Well that really surprises me. I’d of thought Ann Budge would of taken the view that Robinson was not

the kind of person our fans would have getting special treatment in our new main stand when he was 

behind selling our home after getting us into £20 million plus of debt. 

Money talks in every walk of life 

[kingantti1874]

36 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

I'm well aware of the pricing fluctuations in construction projects as I work in the industry for a major civils and utilities supplier. I don't have an issue with it being over budget, what I do have an issue with is it being over budget, incomplete, underwhelming in parts and no detailed breakdown of costs or explanations why.

 

Do I think it's a big issue? No. I reckon Ann has it in hand, do I think the whole project has been a bit of a debacle? Yes.

 

Given where we've been, those who just say "11m, 15m or 18m it's all the same" worry me. Head in the sand stuff.

 

But the £18m you quote will be the total price so it will be finished ?‍♂️ And underwhelming? ? in your opinion ? your what else do you think we should have got for the money?  A roof maybe? And Why the hell would they give you a detailed breakdown of costs ? for someone who knows the industry your awfully unrealistic. 

 

And no one is worried becuase we have access to our accounting information as we are in the best financial health we’ve ever been in, thanks to our current board

[Taffin]

41 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

But the £18m you quote will be the total price so it will be finished ?‍♂️ And underwhelming? ? in your opinion ? your what else do you think we should have got for the money?  A roof maybe? And Why the hell would they give you a detailed breakdown of costs ? for someone who knows the industry your awfully unrealistic. 

 

And no one is worried becuase we have access to our accounting information as we are in the best financial health we’ve ever been in, thanks to our current board

 

 

Right okay, you're right. Everything has been exactly as outlined, perfectly delivered on time and absolutely nothing about it has ended up a slight compromise and none of the additional spend has been to correct  flaws and rectify issues in the initial design.

 

I'm glad I'm now aware of all of that, I'll make sure to use it as a blueprint as a perfect project in future. 

 

As for my industry knowledge I'm well aware of the issues these types of builds face but that doesn't make it okay. If one of our customers had a project run 60% over budget long before it was even completed folk would be getting their arse felt for it, they wouldn't be saying "oh well, it comes with the territory, everything is absolutely perfect, what's 6 million quid anyway?"

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Taffin

[kingantti1874]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Right okay, you're right. Everything has been exactly as outlined, perfectly delivered on time and absolutely nothing about it has ended up a slight compromise and none of the additional spend has been to correct  flaws and rectify issues in the initial design.

 

I'm glad I'm now aware of all of that, I'll make sure to use it as a blueprint as a perfect project in future. 

 

As for my industry knowledge I'm well aware of the issues these types of builds face but that doesn't make it okay. If one of our customers had a project run 60% over budget long before it was even completed folk would be getting their arse felt for it, they wouldn't be saying "oh well, it comes with the territory, everything is absolutely perfect, what's 6 million quid anyway?"

 

 

? have you ever worked on a real project.. because I sure as **** have never seen a perfect one (especially one that had to be done in a hastily before the opportunity was gone)

 

and as regards your repetitive point on overspend. if you buy a car, then add leather seats and a panoramic sunroof, and 20” all its . it’s not 60% over budget. 

 

Your counting additional spend we CHOSE to spend upgrading the whole stadium . We CHOSE to add facilities which generate additional ongoing revenue, we CHOSE to spend relaying the pitch once as a short term fix to help cathro’s team, then we CHOSE to lay the best pitch in Scotland for over £1m, We then CHOSE To rebuild the plant room and to re- do plumbing in all of the other stands, the we CHOSE to replace many of the seats and generally refurbish the other stands, now we are CHOOSING to upgrade all of the turnstiles in the other stands.. none that had nothing to do with the original £12m budget. I could go on but hopefully your starting to get the real point and stop quoting a ****ing stupid and incorrect £6m overspend. We are Choosing to spend it becuase 1. We can afford it  and 2. It will set us up better for success in future because it all needs done at some point after years of neglect. 

 

You’ll be lucky if the real overspend was between £1.5 to  £2m between 10% and 15% (not far outside the contingency budget we had set aside) and with all your experience of the industry that’s a pretty ****ing good result I’m sure you will agree. 

 

[pablo]

I was down at the ground at lunchtime. On the plus side, it's good to see so many people about. There was people in the bar, a wedding party was entering the main reception, the shop was busy, there were workmen at the Roseburn entrance doing something and the museum was open. 

 

On the negative side,  I  really hope we keep things looking smart on the plaza. The monoblock already needs some attention. Weeds are coming through and there's bird shit all over it. 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

I was down at the ground at lunchtime. On the plus side, it's good to see so many people about. There was people in the bar, a wedding party was entering the main reception, the shop was busy, there were workmen at the Roseburn entrance doing something and the museum was open. 

 

On the negative side,  I  really hope we keep things looking smart on the plaza. The monoblock already needs some attention. Weeds are coming through and there's bird shit all over it. 

 

 

 

Mono-block was a stupid choice tbf. 

[kila]

So to add to the exceptionally high window cleaning costs, there is also expensive monoblock maintenance costs

 

 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, kila said:

So to add to the exceptionally high window cleaning costs, there is also expensive monoblock maintenance costs

 

 

 

? I get a guy to do my drive .. I reckon he’d do it for about £2k per annum.. need to get a bit of weed killer down though. 

[jake]

8 minutes ago, kila said:

So to add to the exceptionally high window cleaning costs, there is also expensive monoblock maintenance costs

 

 

Expensive monoblock maintenance?

?

[jake]

18 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

Mono-block was a stupid choice tbf. 

What would you have picked instead?

[Taffin]

32 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

? have you ever worked on a real project.. because I sure as **** have never seen a perfect one (especially one that had to be done in a hastily before the opportunity was gone)

 

and as regards your repetitive point on overspend. if you buy a car, then add leather seats and a panoramic sunroof, and 20” all its . it’s not 60% over budget. 

 

Your counting additional spend we CHOSE to spend upgrading the whole stadium . We CHOSE to add facilities which generate additional ongoing revenue, we CHOSE to spend relaying the pitch once as a short term fix to help cathro’s team, then we CHOSE to lay the best pitch in Scotland for over £1m, We then CHOSE To rebuild the plant room and to re- do plumbing in all of the other stands, the we CHOSE to replace many of the seats and generally refurbish the other stands, now we are CHOOSING to upgrade all of the turnstiles in the other stands.. none that had nothing to do with the original £12m budget. I could go on but hopefully your starting to get the real point and stop quoting a ****ing stupid and incorrect £6m overspend. We are Choosing to spend it becuase 1. We can afford it  and 2. It will set us up better for success in future because it all needs done at some point after years of neglect. 

 

You’ll be lucky if the real overspend was between £1.5 to  £2m between 10% and 15% (not far outside the contingency budget we had set aside) and with all your experience of the industry that’s a pretty ****ing good result I’m sure you will agree. 

 

 

 

Choosing to go over budget is still going over budget. As I said in sure Ann has it all in hand, I said that in my very first post. Some of it is well worth it. Some of the spend is absolutely to rectify things which is disappointing.

 

Overall it's a magnificent stand and a great achievement but it's been far from a well handled project to get there and a number of things are not as they should be. That's under whelming.

 

You can still absolutely think something was worthwhile and a great outcome while equally accepting parts are not good and have cost too much.

 

To use your car analogy. If you buy a new car and it's the fuel consumption ends up not being what you expected it can still be your favourite car you've had and delighted you bought it but accept that part of it hasn't lived up to your expectations and regret that part of it. Things don't need to be 100% good or 100% bad, there's somewhere in between, which on that scale, I'd say our new stand is around 75% positive taking all things into account.

 

You've also just said above you've never seen any project be perfect...so surely you must concede that this one isn't either and therefore elements of it have been underwhelming...albeit not unexpected.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Taffin

[kila]

1 minute ago, jake said:

Expensive monoblock maintenance?

?

 

A friend had someone clean their double monoblock drive for £100. That's probably around £1k-2k for Hearts. Per year.

 

Another main stand cockup, could've knocked 5p off every pie for that.

 

 

[jake]

1 minute ago, kila said:

 

A friend had someone clean their double monoblock drive for £100. That's probably around £1k-2k for Hearts. Per year.

 

Another main stand cockup, could've knocked 5p off every pie for that.

 

 

Can you point me in the right direction of maintenance free landscaping hard or soft ?

 

[iainmac]

4 hours ago, Blacky87 said:

Don't get what the drama is. Budge knows what she's doing, financially. Club is healthy. We've got a cracking new stand. Pieman is nothing but a footnote in our history. 

Personally I get quite a wee buzz seeing the new stand walking to the stadium. ? 

 

Great post. Do people forget where we've come from? 

 

Even when Ann / FoH / Fans bought the club, I used to really worry about that old main stand. 

 

Now we've built a new stand, put in a museum, a Remembrance Garden and a state of the art new pitch! 

 

I personally couldn't see any of this in my wildest dreams but it's all a reality now. 

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Choosing to go over budget is still going over budget. As I said in sure Ann has it all in hand, I said that in my very first post. Some of it is well worth it. Some of the spend is absolutely to rectify things which is disappointing.

 

Overall it's a magnificent stand and a great achievement but it's been far from a well handled project to get there and a number of things are not as they should be. That's under whelming.

 

You can still absolutely think something was worthwhile and a great outcome while equally accepting parts are not good and have cost too much.

 

To use your car analogy. If you buy a new car and it's the fuel consumption ends up not being what you expected it can still be your favourite car you've had and delighted you bought it but accept that part of it hasn't lived up to your expectations and regret that part of it. Things don't need to be 100% good or 100% bad, there's somewhere in between, which on that scale, I'd say our new stand is around 75% positive taking all things into account.

 

You've also just said above you've never seen any project be perfect...so surely you must concede that this one isn't either and therefore elements of it have been underwhelming...albeit not unexpected.

 

 £12m (with £1m contingency) was the budget for the main stand yes? We’ve spent additional money on other areas of the stadium and upgrading other facilities 

 

I’m not sure why you keep referring to the budget for the main stand when we’ve spent money on other things which had. Absolutely nothing to do with that budget.. 

 

it’s not a difficult point, and I don’t think your stupid so I can only conclude your being deliberately and bizarrely obtuse. 

 

Of of course it’s not perfect, but I’m not underwhelmed no - overall it’s a pretty stellar job ??

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Great post. Do people forget where we've come from? 

 

Even when Ann / FoH / Fans bought the club, I used to really worry about that old main stand. 

 

Now we've built a new stand, put in a museum, a Remembrance Garden and a state of the art new pitch! 

 

I personally couldn't see any of this in my wildest dreams but it's all a reality now. 

When we interviewed Ann for JKB, just after taking over, she said that her biggest legacy would be to leave having put a realistic do-able plan in place to replace the main stand. She’s done far more than that in difficult circumstances. 

[sidjamesbottle]

4 hours ago, Julie1957 said:

It’s ok spending £18m on stand.It is a football stadium and the pitch size is not fit for purpose.100mx64. Should be 105 x68m.

Yeh you should have got in touch and mentioned that, bet they never thought of that so much room to play with as well !

[Blacky87]

26 minutes ago, iainmac said:

 

Great post. Do people forget where we've come from? 

 

Even when Ann / FoH / Fans bought the club, I used to really worry about that old main stand. 

 

Now we've built a new stand, put in a museum, a Remembrance Garden and a state of the art new pitch! 

 

I personally couldn't see any of this in my wildest dreams but it's all a reality now. 

Exactly. I'd say Tynie is probably the nicest looking Stadium in all of Scotland now. Not the biggest but it's definitely the nicest!

I think a five year turn around is absolutely outstanding. Hopefully this year we can shift it up a gear on the pitch, and start getting the results the fans and all the hard work people have put into the club deserve. 

[jake]

24 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

When we interviewed Ann for JKB, just after taking over, she said that her biggest legacy would be to leave having put a realistic do-able plan in place to replace the main stand. She’s done far more than that in difficult circumstances. 

I still cannot get my head around what she has put in place.

It's a remarkable achievement.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, jake said:

I still cannot get my head around what she has put in place.

It's a remarkable achievement.

It is indeed. 

[Blacky87]

1 minute ago, jake said:

I still cannot get my head around what she has put in place.

It's a remarkable achievement.

A fact I think some people forget occasionally. 

I remember the whole ' Tynie isn't fit for purpose, the only answer is to sell and move to Murrayfield' & Romanovs ' the council are gangsters we can't build'.

Ann Budge right in there *whack*, there you go folks. 

[jake]

Just now, Blacky87 said:

A fact I think some people forget occasionally. 

I remember the whole ' Tynie isn't fit for purpose, the only answer is to sell and move to Murrayfield' & Romanovs ' the council are gangsters we can't build'.

Ann Budge right in there *whack*, there you go folks. 

I really believe that a permanent move to murrayfield might have killed the club.

 

Also think on a wider note that Ann Budge gets little credit in the press for what she delivered.

 

Every construction I have ever worked on has problems .

And they always will.

 

[jake]

50 minutes ago, kila said:

 

A friend had someone clean their double monoblock drive for £100. That's probably around £1k-2k for Hearts. Per year.

 

Another main stand cockup, could've knocked 5p off every pie for that.

 

 

As an aside weeds growing this soon suggests the blocks were not sanded properly or worse a lack of terram.

 

 

[Kiwidoug]

New stand oot.

[Taffin]

53 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

 £12m (with £1m contingency) was the budget for the main stand yes? We’ve spent additional money on other areas of the stadium and upgrading other facilities 

 

I’m not sure why you keep referring to the budget for the main stand when we’ve spent money on other things which had. Absolutely nothing to do with that budget.. 

 

it’s not a difficult point, and I don’t think your stupid so I can only conclude your being deliberately and bizarrely obtuse. 

 

Of of course it’s not perfect, but I’m not underwhelmed no - overall it’s a pretty stellar job ??

 

 

Okay we increased the budget to a larger one over the original one is a better way of saying.

 

Regard your last paragraph that's pretty much where I am really. Overall it's excellent, I love it and as a whole not underwhelming but I just feel there's a few bits where they've made a bit of a hash of it and it annoys me that people just don't accept that. Which is daft, it shouldn't annoy me especially when overall I think it's great. So let's agree to pretty much agree really and enjoy the amazing weather ????

[TyphoonJambo]

37 minutes ago, jake said:

As an aside weeds growing this soon suggests the blocks were not sanded properly or worse a lack of terram.

Any advice re fungal growths, they're playing havoc with my bulbs? 

 

 

Who says jkb isnt informative? Your not getting this level of horticultural awareness on spoonburners. Net

Edited June 29, 2019 by TypoonJambo

[jake]

14 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Who says jkb isnt informative? Your not getting this level of horticultural awareness on spoonburners. Net

Hard landscaping more my thing.

But regarding fungal growth on your bulbs suggest poor drainage. 

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by jake

[TyphoonJambo]

5 minutes ago, jake said:

Hard landscaping more my thing.

But regarding fungal growth on your bulbs suggest poor drainage. 

 

Thanks for that, currently got them airing out in the sun. Got some funny looks from the neighbours but they seem to have perked up nicely. 

[Shanks said no]

2 hours ago, pablo said:

I was down at the ground at lunchtime. On the plus side, it's good to see so many people about. There was people in the bar, a wedding party was entering the main reception, the shop was busy, there were workmen at the Roseburn entrance doing something and the museum was open. 

 

On the negative side,  I  really hope we keep things looking smart on the plaza. The monoblock already needs some attention. Weeds are coming through and there's bird shit all over it. 

 

 

We went past on the train at around 1520, the wedding party were on the Plaza around the crest getting photos taken.