Mikey1874 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The inquest into the deaths of the 96 fans who died in 1989 will deliver its verdict tomorrow, Tuesday 26 April at 11am. A jury has been asked to consider 14 questions including whether they were unlawfully killed. Judge has accepted a majority on that question believed to be 7-2. The jury has delivered unanimous 9-0 verdicts on the other 13 questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 The criteria for the last charge is tough and hard to prove, so I am not surprised a unanimous verdict was not achieved. I suspect a majority will be though, given how the other charges went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 The reason the verdict is being announced tomorrow 24 hours after jury made their decision is to allow families of the deceased to attend the court in Warrington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Closure of sorts. It's been a long fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Could you elaborate? Tricky question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 So its really amazing. I can't believe looking back how so many lies were told. If you were to look back to some of the immediate tv coverage eg Jimmy Hill on Match of the Day it was pretty clear what happened. See what happens tomorrow. And of course the aftermath. Because this could be the start potentially of criminal charges being brought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 So its really amazing. I can't believe looking back how so many lies were told. If you were to look back to some of the immediate tv coverage eg Jimmy Hill on Match of the Day it was pretty clear what happened. See what happens tomorrow. And of course the aftermath. Because this could be the start potentially of criminal charges being brought. It is quite incredible how the authorities systematically destroyed the reputation of the Liverpool supporters and the supporters who died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clark Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 It is quite incredible how the authorities systematically destroyed the reputation of the Liverpool supporters and the supporters who died. It happens all the time just on a smaller scale. ALL football fans are scum/drunk/hooligan is a very easy tag to apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 It happens all the time just on a smaller scale. ALL football fans are scum/drunk/hooligan is a very easy tag to apply. In fairness, at the time, a large number of supporters made it very easy for the authorities to pin this label on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Hopefully this will give the families of the victims some sort of closure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboozy Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Liverpudlian lad that works beside me on many jobs was there, was pulled out by the hair, the pain in his eyes is too evident when the subject comes up so for his sake and for the Families that lost loved ones I hope this brings a bit of closure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clark Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 In fairness, at the time, a large number of supporters made it very easy for the authorities to pin this label on them. I agree entirely. But the judges ruled out any wrongdoing from fans so it was entirely a police mishandling issue. So the sun and any other paper who blamed fans (and worse) were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Anarchy Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Hope charges are brought. The lies/cover ups were disgraceful. Long hard fight those families have had. They deserve justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 In fairness, at the time, a large number of supporters made it very easy for the authorities to pin this label on them.Indeed. Including Liverpool supporters, although not those that died. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboStu22 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 JFT96 ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhoe Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I agree entirely. But the judges ruled out any wrongdoing from fans so it was entirely a police mishandling issue. So the sun and any other paper who blamed fans (and worse) were wrong lying. FTFY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 The inquest will also give individual reports / verdicts on how each of the deceased died. Its being reported the names of the deceased are being attached on banners onto the court building just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 While I understand the need for the truth to be told and the need for closure, of sorts, for the families, what exactly will this achieve. Not trying to be controversial but after 2 years and countless millions spent, not to mention the emotional toll on the people involved, what will the outcome (whatever it may be) actually change. Will prosecutions be brought, will compensation be increased, or will this just be filed away and forgotten about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnants of Standards Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 While I understand the need for the truth to be told and the need for closure, of sorts, for the families, what exactly will this achieve. Not trying to be controversial but after 2 years and countless millions spent, not to mention the emotional toll on the people involved, what will the outcome (whatever it may be) actually change. Will prosecutions be brought, will compensation be increased, or will this just be filed away and forgotten about It's an interesting point you make. According to news reports an assumption of guilt can be made against individuals or organisations but no prosecution. Will it then be up to families and support groups to launch private prosecutions thus prolonging the agony for them? Would be interested to see what the next step is after today's verdict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 While I understand the need for the truth to be told and the need for closure, of sorts, for the families, what exactly will this achieve. Not trying to be controversial but after 2 years and countless millions spent, not to mention the emotional toll on the people involved, what will the outcome (whatever it may be) actually change. Will prosecutions be brought, will compensation be increased, or will this just be filed away and forgotten about I wouldn't mind knowing this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 So bear in mind that in 'normal' circumstances these inquests would take place at most 1 or 2 years after the event not 26/27 years. So in terms of what might happen next I'd think like it is 1/2 years after the event. Criminal proceedings for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavySlaveJambo Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 criminal investigations are still ongoing as is the IPCC investigation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 While I understand the need for the truth to be told and the need for closure, of sorts, for the families, what exactly will this achieve. Not trying to be controversial but after 2 years and countless millions spent, not to mention the emotional toll on the people involved, what will the outcome (whatever it may be) actually change. Will prosecutions be brought, will compensation be increased, or will this just be filed away and forgotten about I totally understand what you are saying and sort of agree with you, but for me this is about not allowing the establishment to get away with all the lies and deceit they peddled. My thoughts are with the family's, i sincerely hope they find closure today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Not sure it achieves anything. We all know what happened now. The lies and the cover ups. I'm never convinced that these things are entirely neutral- the public will get the verdict it wants, and the families of the victims will only ever believe what they believe- nothing will change that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnants of Standards Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 What prosecutions may achieve as far as the future goes, is that the authorities may think twice before launching cover-ups to save face. Tabloid editors may think twice before besmirching a whole city as murderers, drunks and pick-pockets. From police to politician and "journalist" it's pretty clear the contempt Liverpool was held in at the time, and to a large extent still is. Hopefully today starts to give the city and families some closure. 27 years for whatever "justice" comes their way is a disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 At any point in this inquest has the FA's decision to use Hillsborough been brought into question. There had already been a crush the year before and I'm sure there was one in the late 70's/early 80's at another semi-final. Did this not ring alarm bells for the authorities when allocating stadiums. They would have known that Liverpool would have brought far more fans than would have had tickets and to allocate them a part of the ground notorious for crushing was a very poor decision. I just don't know why this has never been seen as one of the major factors in this case. The decision to allocate a match commander who had little or no experience in major sporting events may have been the defining factor however I would say the FA played a big part in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 Found to be 'unlawfully killed' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnants of Standards Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 There we have it. Verdict of Unlawful Killing on question 6 posed to the jury is in and a majority of 7-2 says Yes. CPS expected to take action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 Behaviour of supporters NOT caused or contributed the danger at turnstiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) At any point in this inquest has the FA's decision to use Hillsborough been brought into question. There had already been a crush the year before and I'm sure there was one in the late 70's/early 80's at another semi-final. Did this not ring alarm bells for the authorities when allocating stadiums. They would have known that Liverpool would have brought far more fans than would have had tickets and to allocate them a part of the ground notorious for crushing was a very poor decision. I just don't know why this has never been seen as one of the major factors in this case. The decision to allocate a match commander who had little or no experience in major sporting events may have been the defining factor however I would say the FA played a big part in it. The belief that Liverpool would have brought more fans than had tickets is not a popular one as it goes with the theory that part of the blame sits with their own. I'm not sure how much of a factor it was, or whether that has been ruled out previously. (Edit: can see verdict now rules out behaviour of fans contributing) But yeah, the Leppings Lane End was poorly designed and always likely to lead to some kind of problem. Edited April 26, 2016 by Nookie Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnants of Standards Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 A lot of people may not sleep easily tonight on the back of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 A lot of people may not sleep easily tonight on the back of this. I think the people in question would have had many months of sleepless nights. This was always coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 This whole saga has been a tragedy from the very start. Today's various verdicts will not end here no doudt there will be prosecutions and these themselves could take years and who knows where these will go, how long they will take and will they result in any convictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 Police planning and policing including at turnstiles and crushing, And the Police emergency response The opening of the gates Defects in stadium Licensing and oversight of stadium Sheffield Wednesday and their engineers Ambulence service All above found to have caused or contributed to crush and \ or loss of lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 There may well be criminal charges brought in light of these findings. Either way the roll of the Police in this tragedy, before, during and most notably afterwards is something which needs to be urgently addressed, so that nothing like this can ever happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsdaft101 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I haven't really been following this case (not for a while, anyway). Very important question: are the victims getting some form of damages? If so, what kind and on what basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 CPS saying they will consider criminal charges against senior police involved. The catastrophic mistakes were bad, but the closing of ranks to protect jobs and position and shift the blame to the victims was a national disgrace. Scandalous that it's taken so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryJ-o-s Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 At any point in this inquest has the FA's decision to use Hillsborough been brought into question. There had already been a crush the year before and I'm sure there was one in the late 70's/early 80's at another semi-final. Did this not ring alarm bells for the authorities when allocating stadiums. They would have known that Liverpool would have brought far more fans than would have had tickets and to allocate them a part of the ground notorious for crushing was a very poor decision . I just don't know why this has never been seen as one of the major factors in this case. The decision to allocate a match commander who had little or no experience in major sporting events may have been the defining factor however I would say the FA played a big part in it. I seem to recall that the bolded bit was a police recommendation rather than a pure FA decision. I think it was based on the likely travel routes of both sets of fans entering the city. Could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol1874 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I haven't really been following this case (not for a while, anyway). Very important question: are the victims getting some form of damages? If so, what kind and on what basis? It has never been about that and even supposing their families receive ?1bn each, it never will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR INCREDIBLE Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Behaviour of supporters NOT caused or contributed the danger at turnstiles.Quite strange as thousands of them travelled without tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 Quite strange as thousands of them travelled without tickets. Suppose jury found that better crowd control would have coped with that Not an unusual occurance especially at that time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Quite strange as thousands of them travelled without tickets. I don't know if it is thousands but to suggest that the fans played NO factor in this tragedy is, to me, absurd. The only reasoning I can find to justify that is the fact their behaviour was not 'out of the ordinary' for the time, in terms of fans behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecjambo Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Quite strange as thousands of them travelled without tickets. It's not quite strange at all. 2 years worth of evidence but you know better do you? Justice at last. Thoughts are with the families and well done to them for never giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Finally. Indeed.It is a national disgrace that it has taken 27 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I really really really hope that this is closure. It really needs to have closure. Doubt it will tho i'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 I really really really hope that this is closure. It really needs to have closure. Doubt it will tho i'm afraid. Not closure if still lessons to be learned And while I might be in favour of foregiveness holding people accountable is how we do things. Criminal charges are inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I really really really hope that this is closure. It really needs to have closure. Doubt it will tho i'm afraid. CPS will, no doubt, take action. The victory for the families is a closure of sorts but now that the rulings have been made, some people will now be held to account...and quite right too. My respect for the families in this fight in unquantifiable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Quite strange as thousands of them travelled without tickets. So? They shouldn't have been let in. Unless you were expecting the Liverpool fans to keep a count and turn themselves around when they reached a number. It's not up to the fans to work out when it's at capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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