Brussels Airport Explosions

[The Future's Maroon]

I don't think its been discussed, but what about the bomb/suicide belt that was found at the airport? Could this have been one of them who basically bottled it and dumped it and ran....if only the others had done that 30-odd folk would not be dead and hundreds of peoples lives ripped apart.

 

As for the Euro's, I know and believe in the whole "carry on as normal" chat...but that tournament is probably the last place I would be this summer, sad but true.

[CollyWolly]

Booked to go for 3 days, stopping in Brussels on the way. Wee bit scared to be honest, those fanzones are gonna be prime targets.

you wouldn't be entirely surprised to see that tournament moved or suspended. Bit late in the day to move it right enough. Some of the more politically sensitive teams, like England and Russia might well be having a wee think about withdrawing.

[wavydavy]

Dalaman airport in Turkey has security at the front doors then a second set after you've booked in.

 

Yes but the former security chief for Gatwick or Heathrow not sure which was being interviewed on TV and when asked about this he suggested that it was not a good idea as there would then be queues outside the airports which would be sitting targets for these clowns.

[Irufushi]

Would I **** be going to the European championships this summer.

 

Shouldn't let them win, but not for me like!

[CollyWolly]

Yes but the former security chief for Gatwick or Heathrow not sure which was being interviewed on TV and when asked about this he suggested that it was not a good idea as there would then be queues outside the airports which would be sitting targets for these clowns.

Large crowds anywhere are a soft and easy target, not just airports. I'm amazed that two blokes were able to walk about Brussels and into its airport in possession of high explosives and a pair of AK's. Just shows you what an upper hand they have if they are prepared to martyr themselves. How the feck do you stop that !!!

[Rocco_Jambo]

Large crowds anywhere are a soft and easy target, not just airports. I'm amazed that two blokes were able to walk about Brussels and into its airport in possession of high explosives and a pair of AK's. Just shows you what an upper hand they have if they are prepared to martyr themselves. How the feck do you stop that !!!

 

Hopefully we will see some questions and recognition about the problems with Islam by people and in particularly other Muslims without the accusations of racism and islamophobia. This "they are not Muslims" or "youaintnomuslimbruv" attitude adopted by most people and most Muslims completely ignores the issue that we have a religion that no matter which country or continent it is prevalent in and whatever the background of it's the followers, whether they be poor, educated or persecuted turns a small minority of its followers (in particular the young) in to suicidal death squads. 

 

It's about time this problem was recognised as what it is rather just pretend because it's a small minority it is nothing to do with Islam.

[SE16 3LN]

Hopefully, when daylight comes, we'll see some Hearts fans standing firm with the people of Belgium and the rest of Europe. The narcissistic and cowardly comments from some people on here makes me puke.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Hopefully, when daylight comes, we'll see some Hearts fans standing firm with the people of Belgium and the rest of Europe. The narcissistic and cowardly comments from some people on here makes me puke.

U wot m8?

[AlphonseCapone]

i always said if i was a terrorist i would hit something like the military tattoo. we were always a bit more relaxed up here given we didn't live with the IRA threats really. i used to think it would be a softer target, worldwide event, and a military theme so hitting out at all that would send a message.

 

i hope i'm wrong, but like others have said, i can only see them increasingly hitting softer targets and local haunts like they did in paris.

 

cowardly scum, but i won't let them win. i had half plans to go to brussels next month or the month after although we were swithering between paris, brussels and gemrnay. think after today we will be going to brussels.

 

this just makes me so frickin angry. RIP those murdered today

I know you won't necessarily know thexactly answer, just quoting you as you mentioned it and it is a little off topic but why did the IRA never target Scotland?

[AlphonseCapone]

Oops, just done it, poor show Zoltan!

[joondalupjambo]

I don't think its been discussed, but what about the bomb/suicide belt that was found at the airport? Could this have been one of them who basically bottled it and dumped it and ran....

 

Or did it just not denonate?  What would be worthwhile would be finding out if the pattern in the last two attacks, Paris and Brussels, has any substance?  Two attacks where one of the attackers manages to escape or perhaps deliberatley does not blown themselves up and gets away.  What if these two escapees were the cell leaders, groomed by ISIS to recruit the suicide bombers, set the targets and plan the attacks but who were instructed not to blow themselves up, to escape and to fight another day. 

 

It could be that their skills in organising the attacks are so worthwhile saving that it makes them invalueable.  If it was the case then it would mean that they would have to have lied to the other cell members and that could be the smoking gun that the West needs to combat radicalisation.  If the West could prove to all young Muslims that all this is not about a believe, a radical change, an aim to rule their own state, that the West is evil and so on and all that it was, was just pure terrorism then the ISIS recruitment campaigns could begin to falter.  

 

All hypothetical of course but the West will not win this by fighting a war or by other traditional means of warfare, it surely can only suceed by winning minds?   So break the cycle and try to turn young, radicalised Muslims against ISIS.  

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I know you won't necessarily know thexactly answer, just quoting you as you mentioned it and it is a little off topic but why did the IRA never target Scotland?

Because shaking tins for "Republican Prisoners" was quite successful in Glasgow and the West. Don't want to threaten the money for guns and Semtex.

[John Findlay]

There is no easy answer here if any. You cannot deal with people who have no respect for their own life. So they have no respect for anyone else's. They see the West as soft. By that I mean we have to a certain degree play by rules such as the Geneva convention. I can already hear aye but what about the Americans and Quantic. As simplistic as it sounds I don't recall the Americans beheading anyone and posting it on you tube. As much as it will offend our Western sensibilities we have to play them at their own game to a certain extent. We must in turn plant fear into the leaders of IS or whatever you wish to call them. As daft as it sounds we must get their respect and I personally believe the west does not have that at present.

[Deevers]

There is no easy answer here if any. You cannot deal with people who have no respect for their own life. So they have no respect for anyone else's. They see the West as soft. By that I mean we have to a certain degree play by rules such as the Geneva convention. I can already hear aye but what about the Americans and Quantic. As simplistic as it sounds I don't recall the Americans beheading anyone and posting it on you tube. As much as it will offend our Western sensibilities we have to play them at their own game to a certain extent. We must in turn plant fear into the leaders of IS or whatever you wish to call them. As daft as it sounds we must get their respect and I personally believe the west does not have that at present.

Correct in all of this. The Liberal West is seen as morally corrupt and deserving of this by them. Rhetoric won't solve the problem.

[John Findlay]

Because shaking tins for "Republican Prisoners" was quite successful in Glasgow and the West. Don't want to threaten the money for guns and Semtex.

Worked both ways in the West Geoff.

[Nookie Bear]

There is no easy answer here if any. You cannot deal with people who have no respect for their own life. So they have no respect for anyone else's. They see the West as soft. By that I mean we have to a certain degree play by rules such as the Geneva convention. I can already hear aye but what about the Americans and Quantic. As simplistic as it sounds I don't recall the Americans beheading anyone and posting it on you tube. As much as it will offend our Western sensibilities we have to play them at their own game to a certain extent. We must in turn plant fear into the leaders of IS or whatever you wish to call them. As daft as it sounds we must get their respect and I personally believe the west does not have that at present.

 

So...behead a prisoner and stick it on a pole in the centre of Brussels...I like your way of thinking!

 

(I know you don't mean that, btw)

[SE16 3LN]

U wot m8?

Obviously I was wrong

[John Findlay]

So...behead a prisoner and stick it on a pole in the centre of Brussels...I like your way of thinking!

 

 

W

(I know you don't mean that, btw)

Barbaric I know and the West won't do that but something like that would earn their respect as they are barbaric themselves. So you put the head closer to their home.

[SectionDJambo]

So if news reports are correct, the bomb maker and the organiser, of both Paris and Brussels, didn't go through with their part of the suicide pact. They sound too valuable to lose, and surely too much of a coincidence that only their bombs didn't go off.

Could it be that they lied to the others? Or the others accepted that they couldn't be lost to the cause? If the latter, why risk them going along in the first place?

Sounds like the possibility of a wee chink in the plausibility of the recruitment people.

[Homme]

So if news reports are correct, the bomb maker and the organiser, of both Paris and Brussels, didn't go through with their part of the suicide pact. They sound too valuable to lose, and surely too much of a coincidence that only their bombs didn't go off.

Could it be that they lied to the others? Or the others accepted that they couldn't be lost to the cause? If the latter, why risk them going along in the first place?

Sounds like the possibility of a wee chink in the plausibility of the recruitment people.

Probably more cowardice on their behalf tbh, either that or faulty vests etc. Either way, knowing that they are at large means they have the chance to plan more attacks.

 

I wonder, out of interest how many attacks have failed due to faulty bombs etc that we will never know about?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Worked both ways in the West Geoff.

Of course.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Reports that the 3rd man at the airport has been arrested.

[AlphonseCapone]

Because shaking tins for "Republican Prisoners" was quite successful in Glasgow and the West. Don't want to threaten the money for guns and Semtex.

 

That does make sense. There would have been a lot of sympathy in Scotland I suppose.

[Deevers]

Reports that the 3rd man at the airport has been arrested.

 

Now reporting that there is some doubt about this. All sounds a bit of a shambles.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I know you won't necessarily know thexactly answer, just quoting you as you mentioned it and it is a little off topic but why did the IRA never target Scotland?

I had a debate with a couple of Irish guys well over a decade ago and this question came up. They basically said that Scotland had been oppressed by England and had suffered much like Ireland had.

 

Has there been any attacks in Wales? Every Welsh person I've met absolutely despises the English.

 

Edit: Belgian media withdrawn the report re capturing him.

[John Findlay]

Keep all media away. Whether they like it or not they are more hindrance than help. Their main concern is filling in their 24hr channels. Just get on with the job in hand and tell the media her haw until the time is right. For the security services not the media.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I had a debate with a couple of Irish guys well over a decade ago and this question came up. They basically said that Scotland had been oppressed by England and had suffered much like Ireland had.

 

Has there been any attacks in Wales? Every Welsh person I've met absolutely despises the English.

 

Edit: Belgian media withdrawn the report re capturing him.

Nope. PIRA activities outside of Ireland were in England, Germany and the Netherlands. Gibraltar was on the list too but kind of didn't happen!

[Rudolf's Mate]

Nope. PIRA activities outside of Ireland were in England, Germany and the Netherlands. Gibraltar was on the list too but kind of didn't happen!

I didn't exactly pay attention to them or their so called crusade/cause but why Germany?

[aussieh]

I didn't exactly pay attention to them or their so called crusade/cause but why Germany?

BFG barracks.

[Rudolf's Mate]

BFG barracks.

After I posted it I remembered something about it. More to do with my old CEO was pretty high up in the army and told me a right few stories and this was mentioned.

[FWJ]

I didn't exactly pay attention to them or their so called crusade/cause but why Germany?

British army bases there.

 

There were a couple of young Australian men shot by the IRA just over the border in the Netherlands, which was a popular place for soldiers to go for a drink.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Nick_Spanos_and_Stephen_Melrose

[AlphonseCapone]

I had a debate with a couple of Irish guys well over a decade ago and this question came up. They basically said that Scotland had been oppressed by England and had suffered much like Ireland had.

 

Has there been any attacks in Wales? Every Welsh person I've met absolutely despises the English.

 

Edit: Belgian media withdrawn the report re capturing him.

 

I decided to give this a Google search to see what the internet was saying on the matter. There were a few sites with quotes from people making the same point as those Irish guys. 

 

Another reason given was that to get the attention of the British State, a target in England would get more attention than a target in Scotland. I'm sure many will debate that logic.

 

Then there is the explanation from Geoff regarding there being support in Scotland for their cause from some quarters.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I decided to give this a Google search to see what the internet was saying on the matter. There were a few sites with quotes from people making the same point as those Irish guys.

 

Another reason given was that to get the attention of the British State, a target in England would get more attention than a target in Scotland. I'm sure many will debate that logic.

 

Then there is the explanation from Geoff regarding there being support in Scotland for their cause from some quarters.

Probably a combination of all and more reasons but all plausible.

 

I should add that the reason given by those Irish, I'd also heard similar from Welsh as to why we all should hate England

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Now reporting that there is some doubt about this. All sounds a bit of a shambles.

 

Yeh, I see that.

 

Perhaps the Belgian authorities have learned to not reveal things so readily and keep us and the terrorists guessing what is going on.

[Tasavallan]

British army bases there.

 

There were a couple of young Australian men shot by the IRA just over the border in the Netherlands, which was a popular place for soldiers to go for a drink.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Nick_Spanos_and_Stephen_Melrose

 

I was living in the Netherlands at the time and the killings were major headlines.  Like ISIS, the IRA used Belgium as a base. 

[Tasavallan]

...

[AlphonseCapone]

Probably a combination of all and more reasons but all plausible.

 

I should add that the reason given by those Irish, I'd also heard similar from Welsh as to why we all should hate England

 

We could form the United Alliance of Free Celtic States and invade them 

[John Findlay]

I didn't exactly pay attention to them or their so called crusade/cause but why Germany?

BAOR. Germany was home for the British Army on the Rhine. Pre 1989 and the Berlin Wall coming down there was thousands of British forces personnel (mainly army) stationed in Germany.

[chester copperpot]

Because shaking tins for "Republican Prisoners" was quite successful in Glasgow and the West. Don't want to threaten the money for guns and Semtex.

 

Not just in the west either Geoff

[Tasavallan]

I've watched Salamander, the Belgian police are corrupt.  

[Beverley]

I know you won't necessarily know thexactly answer, just quoting you as you mentioned it and it is a little off topic but why did the IRA never target Scotland?

 

i know geoff has already answered and is likely to know far better than me.  i was a wee bit too young to understand the politics of it, so was never really sure.  my nan (whos mother was irish and came over during the famine we suspect) always said she thought it was due to the links with ireland and scotland, and the fact we openly welcomed them during the famine.  she also said you'd be unlikely to see any trouble in liverpool for the same reason.  now i haven't checked to see if liverpool was ever attacked so i can't say if this was the case at all.

 

i suggest this might be an interesting thread, so rather than derail this one, perhaps a new thread to discuss this ought to be started?

[William H. Bonney]

i know geoff has already answered and is likely to know far better than me. i was a wee bit too young to understand the politics of it, so was never really sure. my nan (whos mother was irish and came over during the famine we suspect) always said she thought it was due to the links with ireland and scotland, and the fact we openly welcomed them during the famine. she also said you'd be unlikely to see any trouble in liverpool for the same reason. now i haven't checked to see if liverpool was ever attacked so i can't say if this was the case at all.

 

i suggest this might be an interesting thread, so rather than derail this one, perhaps a new thread to discuss this ought to be started?

The ira targeted manchester, a city whose inhabitants have a strong irish connection.

[Beverley]

yes, thats true.  as i said, i hadn't really the greatest of knowledge about it, just offering up the opinion my nan had on it 

[Shanks said no]

The ira targeted manchester, a city whose inhabitants have a strong irish connection.

and Warrington, less than 20 miles from the centre of Liverpool

[Ian Beale]

and Warrington, less than 20 miles from the centre of Liverpool

And the pubs I was in (next to the Warrington Wolves) were predominately Irish .

[alwaysthereinspirit]

British army bases there.

 

There were a couple of young Australian men shot by the IRA just over the border in the Netherlands, which was a popular place for soldiers to go for a drink.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_of_Nick_Spanos_and_Stephen_Melrose

They weren't even drinking. Just waiting on the ferry. Their crime was having short hair and a British number plate on their car.(rental)

The murderers did apologise though so its all good for all involved. Cowardly low lifes then are the same cowardly low lifes now.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Turkey saying that one of the attackers was deported from Turkey in June.

 

More news on this to follow, no doubts.

[elvoys]

 

 

I'd recommend folk to watch this to get a sense of the sectarian tensions in the region. And this is the mouthpiece of the World Cup hosts!

 

I think it is first and foremost a sectarian power and vengeance war across Iraq that has drawn (back) in the west whilst and the global domination narrative is one that is used to project a sense of strength to keep the dwindling supply of recruits coming but equally a school of thought says that if west pulled out tmro the short term threat would largely diminish.

 

I also think it gives a window into the innate sense of superiority of Sunnis (those who follow the Sunnah, though this is a largely English use now, in everyday Arabic they are just Muslims and all other sects have distinctions which is quite telling) and reflects the reasons why historically minorities have really dwindled in the region. Consider that Alexandria and Baghdad were 40% Jewish, Syria and Lebanon were majority Christian all less than a century ago and you get a sense of the scale of ethnic strife and homegenisation in region.

 

By then projecting this same quest for dominance into other areas around the world such as north Nigeria, north Kenya and Pakistan and you see that ethically targeted violence more often than not where they have significant or dominant percentage. Or in the magreb where the battle is against secular Govts, it is again done from a base of majority. So Iran has had no bother because of this.

 

So in all these power struggles around the world it is easily to get lost in the religious narrative as that is pretty much the point for us to see these empowered gods soldiers. This is not to say they don't believe in martyrdom, they clearly do but there is a reason why the foreign recruits are the young single suicide bombers here and there. It is a lot easier to pull them into your brotherhood and mould them when they have given up their real family thousands of miles away. And what the revivalist religious narrative also does strategically and most importantly is it unifies all their numbers around a common and immediate goal as the history and origin of the religion is one of glorious and miraculous conquest and propagation.

 

And this is not to downplay that the religious supremacist line which allows the ultimate 'othering' that can both sanctify barbarity and unleash the inner psycho. But in the west we are very much the place to draw political and human capital from through the attacks and chaos, but we are not and never have been the real goal.

[Ian Beale]

 

I'd recommend folk to watch this to get a sense of the sectarian tensions in the region. And this is the mouthpiece of the World Cup hosts!

 

I think it is first and foremost a sectarian power and vengeance war across Iraq that has drawn (back) in the west whilst and the global domination narrative is one that is used to project a sense of strength to keep the dwindling supply of recruits coming but equally a school of thought says that if west pulled out tmro the short term threat would largely diminish.

 

I also think it gives a window into the innate sense of superiority of Sunnis (those who follow the Sunnah, though this is a largely English use now, in everyday Arabic they are just Muslims and all other sects have distinctions which is quite telling) and reflects the reasons why historically minorities have really dwindled in the region. Consider that Alexandria and Baghdad were 40% Jewish, Syria and Lebanon were majority Christian all less than a century ago and you get a sense of the scale of ethnic strife and homegenisation in region.

 

By then projecting this same quest for dominance into other areas around the world such as north Nigeria, north Kenya and Pakistan and you see that ethically targeted violence more often than not where they have significant or dominant percentage. Or in the magreb where the battle is against secular Govts, it is again done from a base of majority. So Iran has had no bother because of this.

 

So in all these power struggles around the world it is easily to get lost in the religious narrative as that is pretty much the point for us to see these empowered gods soldiers. This is not to say they don't believe in martyrdom, they clearly do but there is a reason why the foreign recruits are the young single suicide bombers here and there. It is a lot easier to pull them into your brotherhood and mould them when they have given up their real family thousands of miles away. And what the revivalist religious narrative also does strategically and most importantly is it unifies all their numbers around a common and immediate goal as the history and origin of the religion is one of glorious and miraculous conquest and propagation.

 

And this is not to downplay that the religious supremacist line which allows the ultimate 'othering' that can both sanctify barbarity and unleash the inner psycho. But in the west we are very much the place to draw political and human capital from through the attacks and chaos, but we are not and never have been the real goal.

The "host" seemed a rather disturbed chap !

[Ibrahim Tall]

Assuming the translation is genuine, that entire 'debate' is mental. Even by ME standards.