AlimOzturk Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I feel a wee bit sorry for those visiting this thread who previously didn't know the outcome and have read it on here. It totally takes away from what a dramatic documentary this is. I was gobsmacked at the verdicts as I wasn't aware of the outcomes until I saw them live as it were. Perhaps the mods could add - "Contains Spoilers" to the thread title or is it too late for that now ? The OP clearly stated that this thread may contain spoilers. If you do not want spoilers for a particular show thenaybe avoid a thread with the title in it Simples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I feel a wee bit sorry for those visiting this thread who previously didn't know the outcome and have read it on here. It totally takes away from what a dramatic documentary this is. I was gobsmacked at the verdicts as I wasn't aware of the outcomes until I saw them live as it were. Perhaps the mods could add - "Contains Spoilers" to the thread title or is it too late for that now ? There will possibly be spoilers further down the thread so if you've not seen it, give it a watch, then come back and chat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 His firms Yelp page......http://www.yelp.com/biz/kratz-law-firm-west-bendAfter reading all the recent hate posts (thanks, Netflix) I figured I could probably this guy for cheap to defend my dog, Po-Po, who was falsely accused of negligent homicide of a fellow animal. Long story short, I went to visit my Grandma a few Sundays ago and brought my Lab-shepard Po-Po, who is usually a pretty chill dog. By all evidence, he appears to have colluded with a local raccoon to raid Granny's dumpster while we were watching the Packers on SNF. With the brats and beer flowing, we didn't notice that PoPo and his new friend had knocked over the trash cans and feasting on the tailgate leftovers, including the half emptied Pabsts. PoPo was always a prankster and we later watched on Granny's burglary cam the moment when PoPo shoved the trashcan down the street when the raccoon stepped in to probably rummage for another buffalo wing. The can made it 2 blocks before hitting a Manitowoc police cruiser whose occupants had just finished planting evidence on some poor soul who was planning to contest a parking ticket. The raccoon didn't make it and PoPo got busted though how Steven Avery's blood got smeared on raccoon's tail is a mystery. I thought PoPo could get a reduced sentence or probation especially after Kratz was able to secure a confession from Brendan Avery of having committed the crime. But before I knew it, PoPo was convicted in Manitowoc County of first degree evil incarnate, aggravated marsupial murder, and sodomy with sodium nitrate byproducts. The situation kind of sucks but Kratz assures me that in exchange for the mobile numbers of PoPo's ex girlfriend's owners, his investigator can take care of it for me. Done and done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I'm surprised anyone was surprised by the ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollyWolly Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I'm surprised anyone was surprised by the ending. I didn't know the story at all before I watched it. In my nievity I thought it was possibly going to end with not guilty verdicts and Avery suing them again and the bad guys getting caught. I was shocked at both verdicts if I am honest. Especially the young laddie. Didn't see that coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I wont repeat similar points countless people have made about the case against Avery and Dassey. Its clear that most jurys would have thrown out the case as most of the charges could not be proved " beyond reasonable doubt". Its even amazing that it got to court. Most of the so called professionals in this need to hang their heads in shame. In particular i feel that the two who interviewed Brendan are absolutely shameful and disgusting. Also Brendans first lawyer was completely incompetent as well as his accomplice. There was a real undercurrent re class in this programme. The Averys were viewed as illiterate scum who deserved no respect or justice whereas the victims family were very much lower middle class , and were far more articulate and "presentable". I do feel that the brother of the victim was rather smug but his sister was killed so I can let him off with that. But surely the family must have some doubts ( unexpressed) about the credibility of the convictions ? Or are they so much in denial and just happy that some one was convicted irrespective of "guilt"? As others have stated i still find it upsetting when Brendan was talking about wanting to go home after being questioned to watch the wrestler. THIS is why i always tell people * due to my area of work, when they are maybe charged or questioned by police to say " no comment" and ensure a solicitor is present. Not tarring all police with the same brush but their job is to gather evidence but not necessarily the truth. There is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I wont repeat similar points countless people have made about the case against Avery and Dassey. Its clear that most jurys would have thrown out the case as most of the charges could not be proved " beyond reasonable doubt". Its even amazing that it got to court. Most of the so called professionals in this need to hang their heads in shame. In particular i feel that the two who interviewed Brendan are absolutely shameful and disgusting. Also Brendans first lawyer was completely incompetent as well as his accomplice. There was a real undercurrent re class in this programme. The Averys were viewed as illiterate scum who deserved no respect or justice whereas the victims family were very much lower middle class , and were far more articulate and "presentable". I do feel that the brother of the victim was rather smug but his sister was killed so I can let him off with that. But surely the family must have some doubts ( unexpressed) about the credibility of the convictions ? Or are they so much in denial and just happy that some one was convicted irrespective of "guilt"? As others have stated i still find it upsetting when Brendan was talking about wanting to go home after being questioned to watch the wrestler. THIS is why i always tell people * due to my area of work, when they are maybe charged or questioned by police to say " no comment" and ensure a solicitor is present. Not tarring all police with the same brush but their job is to gather evidence but not necessarily the truth. There is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennywise Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Watching episode 4 now, can't make my mind up if they are guilty or not.... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2006 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewis2006 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Avery has filed a "motion for release", apparently based on the premise that the search(es) on his property were illegal, so much of the evidence should have been inadmissible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 This is an interesting read from reddit. A "point by point rebuttal to missing evidence" as per the points made by Kratz in his recent media interviews. https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/40rl21/pointbypoint_rebuttal_to_missing_evidence/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 This is an interesting read from reddit. A "point by point rebuttal to missing evidence" as per the points made by Kratz in his recent media interviews. https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/40rl21/pointbypoint_rebuttal_to_missing_evidence/ Good point in one of the comments saying Avery cleaned the place spotless but left bullet casings everywhere. Which is it master cleaner or dumb hick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Another thing Avery is thick as shit. He has an an IQ similar to Dassey surely the cops would have got that confession out of him if he had done it, he would have slipped up eventually but imo he kept telling everyone he was innocent because he was, not that he was clever enough to hide his guilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Good point in one of the comments saying Avery cleaned the place spotless but left bullet casings everywhere. Which is it master cleaner or dumb hick. He cleaned the place enough to remove her blood but not enough to remove a layer of dirt, dust and grease too. Pretty amazing. He must be some sort of criminal mastermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Fredrickson Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I remember when the Blair WItch Project was first released. There was lots of internet chat about it being a "real" missing recording of what happened in real life. Internet chat rooms (mind them) were full of folk chatting about it. The "is it real" thing came back to mind with Making A Murderer. But then, if it were a story, what storyteller would think they could get away with so much crap? It would be a straight to video release as no-one would want to watch it. However, this is a true case which blows my mind that the Steven and Brendan are still in prison and the way the US authorities have refused appeals is frightening. I wonder how many similar cases there are in the US or even here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I remember when the Blair WItch Project was first released. There was lots of internet chat about it being a "real" missing recording of what happened in real life. Internet chat rooms (mind them) were full of folk chatting about it. The "is it real" thing came back to mind with Making A Murderer. But then, if it were a story, what storyteller would think they could get away with so much crap? It would be a straight to video release as no-one would want to watch it. However, this is a true case which blows my mind that the Steven and Brendan are still in prison and the way the US authorities have refused appeals is frightening. I wonder how many similar cases there are in the US or even here. I kind of get the feeling that this wont be an isolated case and a retrial with an Avery/Dassey win might have a snowball effect throughout the US which they wont want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Fredrickson Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I kind of get the feeling that this wont be an isolated case and a retrial with an Avery/Dassey win might have a snowball effect throughout the US which they wont want. I am not up to speed on how the US legal systems work but I got the impression that all appeal procedures were exhausted. Is there other avenues or grounds for them to appeal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendricks Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I am not up to speed on how the US legal systems work but I got the impression that all appeal procedures were exhausted. Is there other avenues or grounds for them to appeal? They can appeal if 'new' evidence comes to light, if a 'new' witness came forward (or someone grew a conscience!) or if 'new' scientific advances meant that they could show something that proved it wasn't them (ironically what got his first guilty verdict overturned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Fredrickson Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 They can appeal if 'new' evidence comes to light, if a 'new' witness came forward (or someone grew a conscience!) or if 'new' scientific advances meant that they could show something that proved it wasn't them (ironically what got his first guilty verdict overturned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Surely advancements in technology could test that blood sample to find out if there was preserves in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynecastle Valhalla Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) i've watched this twice now im a meticulous person and dont like to jump to quick conclusions its fair to say im not an emotional person and rarely get affected by much in life, however its fair to say i was seriously moved by this whole thing im going only by what netflix has presented, however to me the averys are a simple, nice family who just didnt get on with the popular people and as a result two innocent people are now serving lie sentances for crimes they didnt commit the brandon case is ludicrous, it is literally made up and he is rotting in jail with his life being ruined for something that clearly didnt even happen - so crazy steven avery i feel incredibly sorry for. he seems a guy who just wanted his life back but the powers that be stopped him. the conviction was a joke. his lawyers were great but their hands were tied the police and fbi from the start had it in for him and barely questioned anyone else lets bear in mind here he was on course to win $36million from the council plus people personally and 3 weeks later he is up for a murder charge with no motive the evidence was clearly planted by lenk and that other corrupt kop the victims brother was creepy and seemed hellbent on getting avery convicted no matter what, no matter the truth brandons brother and father seemed really dodgy too the victims ex boyfriend and room mate also seemed really dodgy the killer is still out there !!!!!!! his original case was a farce and noone is being charged or punished for it which is horrendous. the actual perpetrator raped at least two more people whilst avery was in jail - thats unforgivable he is still in jail unbelievable i feel really bad about this, makes me genuinely sad i hope the truth comes out and the relevant people involved are reprimanded accordingly massive conspiracy Edited January 17, 2016 by wallace_mercer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal_ Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Thought defence should have pushed the not guilty line rather than the framing line. Kept the case against the police for another day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/25/dead-certainty Interesting piece from The New Yorker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Winchester Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Thought defence should have pushed the not guilty line rather than the framing line. Kept the case against the police for another day? Did they not say they couldn't because generally pushing for not guilty involves offering up other suspects which they were not allowed to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJamboR7 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Seemed that he got the guilty verdict because of the Blood and DNA from the car. However, there was 40 minute window between the two women finding the car and a cop being on the scene. Thats very very fishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Just finished watching this. Incredible story. While it did seem rather one sided, it's still staggering that they were both given guilty verdicts and every attempt at appeals rejected. How anyone could not have any 'reasonable doubt' having heard those cases is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Allen Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Just finished watching this play, thought the acting was brilliant but the storyline was a little far fetched, I'd give it 3 stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Thought defence should have pushed the not guilty line rather than the framing line. Kept the case against the police for another day? To be fair, if they had kept quiet on the police involvement then in the eyes of the defence Steve wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. The DNA was found in the car and he was, on record, the last to see her. I've watched it twice now and I have no doubt whatsoever now that this was a set up job. I'm shocked and appalled that the jury didn't pick up on Lenk and Coburn's body language and complete inability to answer simple questions (similar to their deposition). On another note, watch the episode again when her brother and ex boyfriend are being interviewed about the search at Avery's yard. The way they look at each other when the other is speaking is way too suspicious for my liking (as if they wanted to ensure they didn't put their foot in it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Why would you burn a body, clean the murder scene but leave the car behind a few branches. The part where he radio's in about the car reg is unbelievable. It was defo a double team but I don't know whether it's her brother and ex, or Brendan's Dad and brother that did it. Edited January 20, 2016 by aussieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Can I just add, I think there is a lot they're not telling us prior to the rape conviction. I believe Steve may have been a dangerous man, the cat murder(dirty rat b'tard) and the incident with his cousin points to this.(If what his cousin says is true, he was a danger to women). Maybe the cops felt they needed him off the streets ASAP. That aside, i think he was framed for rape and murder.IMO. Edited January 20, 2016 by aussieh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 For fans of this show, you need to watch "The Jinx", a documentary series about a billionaire suspected in the murders of three people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 One admittedly silly thing that is bothering me is how the hell they managed to put on so much weight while in prison? What sort of rations are US prisons dishing out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 For fans of this show, you need to watch "The Jinx", a documentary series about a billionaire suspected in the murders of three people. Yep i just finished watching this. its like the flip side of Making a murderer as the suspect is a socialite. A very good series and intriguing. I do wonder about his guilt though but did you notice that he often blinked with his left eye when asked a difficult question? Hes an odd character but it doesnt make him a murderer. Maybe as one of the people on it said he is maybe just unlucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yep i just finished watching this. its like the flip side of Making a murderer as the suspect is a socialite. A very good series and intriguing. I do wonder about his guilt though but did you notice that he often blinked with his left eye when asked a difficult question? Hes an odd character but it doesnt make him a murderer. Maybe as one of the people on it said he is maybe just unlucky. Did you miss the final episode? (DO NOT read the below if you haven't seen it yet. Massive spoiler.) He basically admits to it all off-camera in that recording they found when he was in the bathroom talking to himself. The handwriting, cadaver and misspelt address is also way too much of a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Allen Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 You can't really blame Brendan, what man wouldn't confess when faced with the scary thought of missing Wrestlemania on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 For fans of this show, you need to watch "The Jinx", a documentary series about a billionaire suspected in the murders of three people. What has it been showing on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Seemed that he got the guilty verdict because of the Blood and DNA from the car. However, there was 40 minute window between the two women finding the car and a cop being on the scene. Thats very very fishyThe blood will have been on the car when it was planted there by the police I reckon.Doubt they would have had the blood ready to go hoping it was found on his property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) What has it been showing on? HBO / Sky Atlantic. If you can't find it online then it'll no doubt be back on Sky Atlantic at some point. Edited January 20, 2016 by Ray Gin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Seemed that he got the guilty verdict because of the Blood and DNA from the car. However, there was 40 minute window between the two women finding the car and a cop being on the scene. Thats very very fishy & what about the local cop who signed out 6 hours after arriving at the crime scene & he didn't sign in. What was he doing all that time? I read today that the picture of the victim next to her Rav4 (when she was alive) shows her holding a camera and her car key with several keys on the key ring (house keys etc). This was missed by the defence lawyers. The key that tuned up in his trailer after SIX visits only had 1 key and 1 set of DNA on it (spare key?). And it was found by the same cop who was earlier at the car crime scene for over 6 hours. The girls bones were planted there as there was evidence of them being moved AND when they exhumed them they used a SHOVEL! Normal practice is paintbrushes and small trowels with photos being taken at every step. Why use a shovel? Travesty of justice if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Gonna throw this out there, I'm sure it means nothing but it's something to think about, especially if you think Theresa Halbach's brother was a bit suspicious: Did anyone notice in the (really weird & cringey) video of Theresa where she tells us about the things/people she loves, that she mentions her mum & sisters but not her brothers? She does say "my family" but she specifically says her mum & sisters. Did she not get along with her brothers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Did you miss the final episode? (DO NOT read the below if you haven't seen it yet. Massive spoiler.) He basically admits to it all off-camera in that recording they found when he was in the bathroom talking to himself. The handwriting, cadaver and misspelt address is also way too much of a coincidence. Yes i seen it but actually struggled to hear what he said. I dont know how to do the spolier thing on this??? can u enlighten me please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benzinho Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Gonna throw this out there, I'm sure it means nothing but it's something to think about, especially if you think Theresa Halbach's brother was a bit suspicious: Did anyone notice in the (really weird & cringey) video of Theresa where she tells us about the things/people she loves, that she mentions her mum & sisters but not her brothers? She does say "my family" but she specifically says her mum & sisters. Did she not get along with her brothers? I noticed that as well. Very weird that she wouldn't specifically mention her brothers but would mention her mother and sisters. The mention of "my family" could be meant to mean her extended family, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Yes i seen it but actually struggled to hear what he said. I dont know how to do the spolier thing on this??? can u enlighten me please? [ spoiler ] [ /spoiler ] without the spaces after/before the brackets WARNING: MASSIVE SPOILER FOR 'THE JINX' When he was in the bathroom at the end after filming finished, the audio was still running unknown to him. It sounded like he was crying and he was muttering to himself "There it is, you're caught." and ?What the hell did I do? Killed them all, of course.? Edited January 20, 2016 by Ray Gin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardenjambo Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Full transcripts from the trial have been released. Very lengthy but you can get them from the below http://www.stevenaverycase.org/jurytrialtranscripts/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Brendan's Saturday morning interview with the police in the detention centre took place during our cup final v Gretna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 There is an interview with Jodi, Steven's ex girlfriend who liked a wee drink before driving. She has totally flipped and believes Steven did do it and claims she was scared of him. Not sure if I believe her as she struggles to remember some details but has crystal clear memories of other things. Worth a watch, 33mins or so, sorry not got link to hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 There is an interview with Jodi, Steven's ex girlfriend who liked a wee drink before driving. She has totally flipped and believes Steven did do it and claims she was scared of him. Not sure if I believe her as she struggles to remember some details but has crystal clear memories of other things. Worth a watch, 33mins or so, sorry not got link to hand Aye, another claim from someone lacking capacity. No leanings either way from me, but it would be great to hear a testimony from someone who isn't drunk, a deposed cop, related to Halbach in some way or has severe learning difficulties. What you'll find now, as a retaliation to the documentary, is pressure from the prosecutors on those who haven't yet sided with Avery to further darken his name. She's a vulnerable ex-fianc?e, an easy target. Why wasn't she questioned in 2005/06? How long before we find out that Weigert and Fassbender got to her before the interview? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Gonna throw this out there, I'm sure it means nothing but it's something to think about, especially if you think Theresa Halbach's brother was a bit suspicious: Did anyone notice in the (really weird & cringey) video of Theresa where she tells us about the things/people she loves, that she mentions her mum & sisters but not her brothers? She does say "my family" but she specifically says her mum & sisters. Did she not get along with her brothers? Read this theory last night. Something about the brother and the ex boyfriend wasn't right though I agree...http://www.theladbible.com/articles/is-this-the-most-credible-theory-about-making-a-murderer-yet-200116 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Not read back to see if covered but viewers of the documentary have highlighted that pics of Teresa showed her holding her car keys which were in a bunch of keys. The defence lawyers said that brought it up that it was strange only 1 key was on the found keyring but they themselves hadn't noticed it in the pictures. Unlikely to be damming enough to force a retrial as there could be a number of reasons there was only one. That said my Mrs goes nuts if I take the car key off her bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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