"God Bless you"

[Smack]

So what would you rather the Beggar said to you in response to you saying 'no' when he asked for change? Would you have preferred a barage of abuse and swearing? Bet you wouldn't have came moaning on here if he had.

Think your OP was a thinly veiled excuse for you to basically have a pop at religion. Or to put it another way, to make it clear you have a problem with everybody who doesn't believe religiously exactly what you believe.

As has been said in previous post, people come to their own conclusions about what they believe in/don't believe in. That's something that fortunately we are free to do. What this guy said to you was harmless and in fact quite nice, so you don't really have anything to complain about.

People are entitled to their own conclusions. Some people see ISIS or God or Hibs as logical conclusions. They are stupid and wrong. They are entitled to be wrong. If they won't accept or consider they are wrong it's a different story. If they impose their bullshit on others....

[Erik]

See any time someones ever said 'god bless you' to me...... its normally gone in one ear and out the other within 2 seconds of it having being said.

 

Cant say I've EVER found myself mulling over the use of that particular phrase and its appropriateness.

[Maple Leaf]

Who else feels reeaally uneducated just now?

Every day is a school day on JKB. 

[Maple Leaf]

I hope your grandkid is ok.

 

The idea that a "God" could help if I or you prayed would insult me.

 

I think there is a need to get angry and insulted when our children are taught this pish at supposedly non denominational schools.

Thanks.  It was a burst appendix and she's recovering.

 

I agree with you last sentence.  Fortunately, it's against the law in Ontario.

[maltese jambo]

People are entitled to their own conclusions. Some people see ISIS or God or Hibs as logical conclusions. They are stupid and wrong. They are entitled to be wrong. If they won't accept or consider they are wrong it's a different story. If they impose their bullshit on others....

What a really stupid post

[aussieh]

I hope your grandkid is ok.

 

The idea that a "God" could help if I or you prayed would insult me.

 

I think there is a need to get angry and insulted when our children are taught this pish at supposedly non denominational schools.

Its world history, so why not?.

[aussieh]

People are entitled to their own conclusions. Some people see ISIS or God or Hibs as logical conclusions. They are stupid and wrong. They are entitled to be wrong. If they won't accept or consider they are wrong it's a different story. If they impose their bullshit on others....

Like this post you mean, or is you telling people theyre wrong not imposing your own bullshit on others?.

[John Frum]

Frum: whatev.  I believe in careful scholarship and historical evidence not pop theorizing.  Some of your first paragraph points to interesting discussion topics regarding historical techniques and flawed evidence but it's frankly overloaded with a lot of hyperbolic noise that I can't see how any kind of reasonable conversation would be possible.

 

Now, because this seems to be so hard for some people to understand, I'll repeat -- I'm not a creationist so quit pinning that on me.  I have a degree in environmental biology and could probably teach most people here a fair few things about evolutionary theory that have nothing to do with religion or theism.  The Gospels are four separate, self-contradictory accounts written decades after the events in question to try to collate them into one coherent narrative, and each has a perspective which argues with or competes with the others.  If they're allegory, whoever wrote them did a terrible job, in that there are clearly sections that the authors have to go to pains to explain why Jesus said something and then later changed his mind.  Any semi-competent fiction writer could have put together a far more coherent narrative, and one would think that if the church were as all-powerful and cavalier in doctoring documents that they might have fixed the obvious conflicts and disagreements between them.

 

The church has been chock full of unsavory actors for millennia, sure, but the church has been fighting with itself ever since Paul wrote his first letter to Christians in Corinth around 55 AD primarily to tell them to knock off all the squabbling.  Even if the only church in the world were the Roman Catholic church, power wasn't strongly consolidated to Rome until the mid to late medieval period, and that ignores the records kept in all of the eastern churches, who in addition to feuding with Rome were bickering among themselves.  Part of how we can actually analyze ancient documents is precisely by the differences between copies of them kept in broadly disparate geographical places, which highlight the various ways churches tried to redact or edit the narratives.  So if you actually want to argue that the whole thing is a post facto mockup, you have to imagine some super-conspiracy across the fragments of the broken Roman empire, which by the way also includes digging up things like the Dead Sea Scrolls to edit those too.  It would make an awesome paperback novel, I'm sure, but pardon me if I don't take it as a serious critique.

 

OK you disagree with me - wouldn't have it any other way. Hyperbolic noise - look at your bible if you want to see that as an art form. God bless you UA

 

Want to give historic techniques a go: Who are the authors of the canonical gospels, what are their sources and why should we believe those sources?

 

Out of curiosity, do you believe in the gospels in their entirety or do you only believe bits of them? If only bits of them, why and how do you determine what bits to believe, which bits not? 

 

You do realise the hardback version of the bible is the top selling book of all time? Pretty good for a historical novel filled with tales of gods, goddesses, demi gods not to mention magic, murder and temptation. But you stick with that over reason and logic.

The Dead sea scrolls also don't confirm anything about Jesus or are you just being disingenuous again? For our information, the Jesus myth is almost identical to a host of earlier Jewish prophesies (and the Romulus myth for that matter)- as far as I'm concerned, the man was invented to give the masses  something they could more easily understand. So yes, I give more credence to a theory that fits with logic and reason over your fairy story and yes, given 2000 years to fiddle what they want. 

 

Congratulations on the degree by the way, you clearly worked hard for it

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Christians are fanbloodytastic at diverting every debate towards being able to prove certain points; "that person was real, do you know how many scholars" etc etc

 

Anything to get away from having to debate this: God isn't real, no matter what some people two thousand years ago said or thought or wrote down. God isn't real. Prove jesus was a person, prove that strange things happened. Doesn't matter. God isn't real. Sorry dude.

 

Hey, people keep bringing up historical accuracy, not me.  If I had one topic to talk about regarding religion right now, it'd probably be welcoming  Syrian refugees.

 

 

But do you believe in god American mate?

 

You ask a question about a really complicated topic and want a simple answer.  Here's the closest I can give -- I don't know if God as I understand God exists as I understand existence or not.  I just don't. I can't.  But I believe in God -- by that I mean I love the idea that the most powerful force in the universe is something that is wrapped up in wisdom, power, holiness, justice and truth. I'm a Christian because I think Christian tradition and practice can bring us closer to that, and that Jesus is as good a choice as any to pick as a person to center my life around.

 

You want me to say that a magical man in the sky exists so that you can say that's ridiculous.  I don't think there's a magical man in the sky.  Happy?

[Craigieboy]

He got four pages out of insulting a homeless person, paradied as 'offended.'

 

Then dipped out the thread when it became a little 'deep' for him.

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Responding again to JF:  (Side note -- if people keep bugging me about ancient history I'm going to keep answering about ancient history.)

 

To my knowledge the majority view among scholars is that the author of Matthew was probably someone named Matthew (or something like that), likely a Jewish scholar and a wealthy one at that who was very concerned with tying Jesus to Hebrew prophecies.  The author of Luke and Acts was probably a Greek or other gentile scholar.  Both by all appearances are attempts at scholarly history.  Mark was almost certainly not written by the Mark it was originally attributed to and was almost certainly the first one written and the only one written during a period when eyewitnesses of Jesus' life were still alive.  John is a far later recording and collection of the traditions of a separate brand of Christians who called themselves the Johannine community and claimed to be a tradition founded by the apostle John. They were picked by the early ecumenical councils out of dozens of other Gospels as being the most credible.

 

Do I believe they're 100% accurate?  No -- that's almost impossible given their contradictions.  Do I think those writing were making an honest attempt to record and interpret events?  Yes.  As to determining which bits are most important, that's kind of what 2000 years of theological study and the major schisms of the church are all about.  And people want me to give short answers?

 

On the Dead Sea scrolls -- my mistake, I was thinking of the Codex Sinaiticus.  The point is some great conspiracy to obliterate old records would have had to go dig it up and change it.  Of course, it *is* different in lots of places from the other copies, which is fodder for the textual critics like Ehrman.   

 

The Jesus story is not "almost identical" to other early myths -- that's nonsense.  It has many shared aspects of many earlier myths, which probably tells us that the witnesses to the story didn't understand what was happening and used their existing cultural frameworks to understand it.

[Unknown user]

Hey, people keep bringing up historical accuracy, not me.  If I had one topic to talk about regarding religion right now, it'd probably be welcoming  Syrian refugees.

 

 

Fair do's UA I have no beef with you and I really shouldn't  be so confrontational. It's such an emotive subject though and, apparently, I have a real problem with religion and the concept of god

[Quartex]

Even if God does exist, he really isn't all that great.

 

Millions of children die each year before reaching the age of five. Most of the parents of these children probably believe in God and are praying for their children to be spared, however their prayers won't be answered.

 

Any God that allows children to die by the millions can either do nothing to help them or doesn't care for them at all. Therefore he is either impotent or evil.

 

Let's say the Christian God (or any God for that matter) does indeed exist. Most of these people praying will be going to hell simply because they're praying to the wrong God.

 

There are over a billion people in India, most of them are Hindus. No matter how good these people are, they are doomed and will be tortured in hell for eternity according to the Bible. Through no fault of their own, they were born into the wrong culture and got the wrong theology, and they missed the revelation.

 

God created the cultural isolation of the Hindus and engineered the circumstance of their deaths in ignorance of revelation, and then he created the penalty for this ignorance.

 

God works in mysterious ways I guess. That's normally the response that's given.

[hueyview]

He got four pages out of insulting a homeless person, paradied as 'offended.'

 

Then dipped out the thread when it became a little 'deep' for him.

 

i thougt this thread was a wind up.......i have heard god bless you since i was born ,50 years ago.....i went to 2 catholic schools, saint patricks and Thomas aquinas..(tasty girls),. played rugby against Gillespies, my best jambo pal,and turned out as an old man at the bororoughmuir school...

 

i say god bless you, when i feel cheery in a pub on christmas eve..............i didi it for over 20 years when tam and charlie ran lauries and sandy bells great hearts pubs.......

[noidletalk81]

i8hibsh, on 18 Nov 2015 - 1:30 PM, said:

I just want to make them feel guilty for 99.9% of all the world?s atrocities. 

 

I think if you take the time to merely skim through the history books...you shall evidently discover the very totalitarian economic system you subscribe too (Capitalism) is responsible for "99.9% of all the world's atrocities"....not religion.

[i8hibsh]

He got four pages out of insulting a homeless person, paradied as 'offended.'

Then dipped out the thread when it became a little 'deep' for him.

 

Or it was a Friday night and I was out enjoying myself and not sitting in my mums house in my y-fronts on the computer.

[i8hibsh]

I think if you take the time to merely skim through the history books...you shall evidently discover the very totalitarian economic system you subscribe too (Capitalism) is responsible for "99.9% of all the world's atrocities"....not religion.

Name 10 non religious wars from history.

 

There have been hundreds of wars in history, name 10 that were non religious.

[aussieh]

Name 10 non religious wars from history.

 

There have been hundreds of wars in history, name 10 that were non religious.

Lets start with the big two, WW1 & 2, then communist takeovers in Russia and vietnam, then civil war in America, then ill go with the wars of independence in America and Scotland.Then theres the Falklands and Both gulf wars. Thats 10.

[i8hibsh]

Lets start with the big two, WW1 & 2, then communist takeovers in Russia and vietnam, then civil war in America, then ill go with the wars of independence in America and Scotland.Then theres the Falklands and Both gulf wars. Thats 10.

Really? WW2 had nothing to do with religion? Are you a bit special fella?

[i8hibsh]

Some real interesting videos online. The only ones I see defending the notion that most wars do not have a deep down religious cause are by religious people.

[Unknown user]

Really? WW2 had nothing to do with religion? Are you a bit special fella?

No need.

 

Also not accurate, WW2 was not fought over religion.

Certain religions may have suffered at the hands of the Nazis, but there was no religious reason to invade, Netherlands, Belgium, France etc

[zoltan socrates]

The three kings is the name given to the three stars of orions belt which point to the the position on the horizon, looking east, at which the sun rises at the winter Equinox

 

The sun rises at different points on the horizon each day until the 22nd Dec where, curiously, it rises from the same point on the horizon for three days signalling the equinox and the shortest days of the year, on the 25th December the sun rises so that a longer day, the first after the Equinox is achieved, the new sun, the start of longer lit days, the birth of the new solar year

 

The 25th was recognised as the day of the birth of the new sun, not new son. It has been recorded in far older religions and there are many deities sharing the three kings, birth on 25/12 to a virgin mother story, there is nothing new about the claims made of the time of Jesus' birth

 

Human beings, not understanding the stars, anthropomorphisised those celestial beings and this formed the basis of these religious stories

 

Other than the bible, there are no extensive texts written about Jesus, a time and place in history where humans were recording everything, detailed accounts of roman emporers of the time are easy to find but no independent records of a man who could walk on water etc

 

It's all a myth and if humanity is to progress we really need to ditch these superstitions pronto

[zoltan socrates]

Explained far more eloquently in the first half hour here

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a36_CwzA0bk&autoplay=1

[NewYorkJambo]

I know there are several other emails with 'religious' topics right now but there is nothing I think this is pertinent to.

 

I passed a homeless person this morning and he said "spare some change" to which I replied "no". He then says "OK, God Bless you" to which I replied "I hope not".  It got me thinking, do people think that it actually makes someone sound like a nice person by saying it? What do they think it actually means?  Are we supposed to be impressed that someone believes in God or has some kind of personal relationship with him that they are in some kind of VIP room area with him where he speaks to them personally?

 

Even when you sneeze,  people say "God Bless you", why oh why?  I see US presidents end every speech with it as if it is some kind of mandatory sign off. It is such a sad indictment of our world where people use their irrational beliefs as some kind of 'badge of niceness'.  

 

I don't get offended by it as nothing offends me,  but it really gets me angry when I see people spout this inane pish as though it commands some kind of respect.  I look down on anyone who believes in God - I really do.

I lost interest after you were a d*** to a homeless person

[NewYorkJambo]

Being non-religious I don?t get offended.  I do have to take you to task on this tho as I never ?throw it down anyone?s throat?.  I discuss it and rip it apart as it deserves both.  I don?t have a moral high ground badge,  I don?t make other people believe what I do, I just want to make them feel guilty for 99.9% of all the world?s atrocities.  I want them to feel ridiculous as they deserve to feel ridiculous.

 

You're the person everyone wants to avoid being cornered by at the Christmas party, aren't you?

[aussieh]

Really? WW2 had nothing to do with religion? Are you a bit special fella?

Ideology, or you bit dolly fella.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Fair do's UA I have no beef with you and I really shouldn't  be so confrontational. It's such an emotive subject though and, apparently, I have a real problem with religion and the concept of god

 

Cheers.  I have a lot of issues with what a lot of religious people have done, and I struggle with the concept of God.  But sometimes critics of religion stray into silly nonsense up there with the weirdest religious stories, and I don't think that helps anything.

[noidletalk81]

Name 10 non religious wars from history.

 

There have been hundreds of wars in history, name 10 that were non religious.

 

Where does one begin??

 

I really don't think you are much of an advocate for Capitalism as you may suspect mate, if you were then it should be common knowledge to you that the Council of the 13 families (especially the ruling Rothschild Dynasty) are the primary orchestrators of all wars, and have been since the American Revolution.

 

Nothing to do with Religion whatsoever, they certainly use religion as the scapegoat in order to present a so-called logical justification for their calculated crimes to the masses, but Religion never has and never shall be the motivating factor to start a war.

 

There are many things Religion can be blamed for, I personally believe they are indoctrination control systems that use organised systems of thought and pre-determined ideas of how to act to keep people (by and large) locked in to fear, apathy, subservience, conformity and thus unable question, discover and express their true self. But that's a whole new topic.

 

I am Non-Religious btw.

[MrRobbo10]

Wot

[aussieh]

Where does one begin??

 

I really don't think you are much of an advocate for Capitalism as you may suspect mate, if you were then it should be common knowledge to you that the Council of the 13 families (especially the ruling Rothschild Dynasty) are the primary orchestrators of all wars, and have been since the American Revolution.

 

Nothing to do with Religion whatsoever, they certainly use religion as the scapegoat in order to present a so-called logical justification for their calculated crimes to the masses, but Religion never has and never shall be the motivating factor to start a war.

 

There are many things Religion can be blamed for, I personally believe they are indoctrination control systems that use organised systems of thought and pre-determined ideas of how to act to keep people (by and large) locked in to fear, apathy, subservience, conformity and thus unable question, discover and express their true self. But that's a whole new topic.

 

I am Non-Religious btw.

Gies a break fae the Rothchild.

[noidletalk81]

aussieh, on 21 Nov 2015 - 7:04 PM, said:aussieh, on 21 Nov 2015 - 7:04 PM, said:

Gies a break fae the Rothchild.

 

Can we have that in English perhaps?

 

The Rothschild?? Singular?

[The White Cockade]

Gies a break fae the Rothchild.

 

Where does one begin??

 

I really don't think you are much of an advocate for Capitalism as you may suspect mate, if you were then it should be common knowledge to you that the Council of the 13 families (especially the ruling Rothschild Dynasty) are the primary orchestrators of all wars, and have been since the American Revolution.

 

Nothing to do with Religion whatsoever, they certainly use religion as the scapegoat in order to present a so-called logical justification for their calculated crimes to the masses, but Religion never has and never shall be the motivating factor to start a war.

 

There are many things Religion can be blamed for, I personally believe they are indoctrination control systems that use organised systems of thought and pre-determined ideas of how to act to keep people (by and large) locked in to fear, apathy, subservience, conformity and thus unable question, discover and express their true self. But that's a whole new topic.

 

I am Non-Religious btw.

 

surely not even you believe that?

[aussieh]

Can we have that in English perhaps?

 

The Rothschild?? Singular?

Anti semitism is disgusting behaviour.

[MrRobbo10]

What are your opinions on the Circle of the Black Thorn theory no idletalk?

[noidletalk81]

The White Cockade, on 21 Nov 2015 - 7:37 PM, said:

surely not even you believe that?

 

Well if you care to enlighten me what is incorrect about that observation then fire away...if you can refrain from the temptation of futile derision and just branding it nonsense because your not familiar with the control these ruling families have, then please do mate.

 

Anti semitism is disgusting behaviour.

 

You really don't have a clue what your talking about do you?

 

Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism, sorry to advise you...but thanks for displaying your uneducated ignorance.

 

Zionism is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence of the land of Israel, the vast majority of Semitic people and the followers of the various forms of Judaism, especially those of Torah-true Jewry. All of which are strongly opposed to the illegal, oppressive and genocidal regime of the Zionist state/government.

 

Basic knowledge really that appears to have eluded you. Pity really.

 

[aussieh]

Well if you care to enlighten me what is incorrect about that observation then fire away...if you can refrain from the temptation of futile derision and just branding it nonsense because your not familiar with the control these ruling families have, then please do mate.

 

 

You really don't have a clue what your talking about do you?

 

Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism, sorry to advise you...but thanks for displaying your uneducated ignorance.

 

Zionism is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence of the land of Israel, the vast majority of Semitic people and the followers of the various forms of Judaism, especially those of Torah-true Jewry. All of which are strongly opposed to the illegal, oppressive and genocidal regime of the Zionist state/government.

 

Basic knowledge really that appears to have eluded you. Pity really.

 

Dress it up to suit your agenda.

I seem to have misplaced a couple of letters on my gies peace post, you could lend them from your uniform, thanks.

[Nookie Bear]

Where does one begin??

 

I really don't think you are much of an advocate for Capitalism as you may suspect mate, if you were then it should be common knowledge to you that the Council of the 13 families (especially the ruling Rothschild Dynasty) are the primary orchestrators of all wars, and have been since the American Revolution.

 

Nothing to do with Religion whatsoever, they certainly use religion as the scapegoat in order to present a so-called logical justification for their calculated crimes to the masses, but Religion never has and never shall be the motivating factor to start a war.

 

There are many things Religion can be blamed for, I personally believe they are indoctrination control systems that use organised systems of thought and pre-determined ideas of how to act to keep people (by and large) locked in to fear, apathy, subservience, conformity and thus unable question, discover and express their true self. But that's a whole new topic.

 

I am Non-Religious btw.

"Where does one begin?"

 

By ignoring your deluded pesh is always a good start.

[Nookie Bear]

What are your opinions on the Circle of the Black Thorn theory no idletalk?

Started off well but the second series was garbage.

[Riddley Walker]

Dress it up to suit your agenda.

I seem to have misplaced a couple of letters on my gies peace post, you could lend them from your uniform, thanks.

Well played.

[XB52]

Anti semitism is disgusting behaviour.

standard response designed to shout down any debate that dares to argue that maybe not every Jewish person is 100% good. Please do not try and equate disquiet about the power of Zionists and anti-Semitism.

[aussieh]

standard response designed to shout down any debate that dares to argue that maybe not every Jewish person is 100% good. Please do not try and equate disquiet about the power of Zionists and anti-Semitism.

Straight back at you. Dont use Zionism as a cover for Anti Semitism.

[XB52]

Straight back at you. Dont use Zionism as a cover for Anti Semitism.

sad and predictable, as I said stock response to avoid any debate. After reading the utter garbage you spout on the election threads I suppose I should have expected nothing less from you.

[noidletalk81]

aussieh, on 22 Nov 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Dress it up to suit your agenda.

I seem to have misplaced a couple of letters on my gies peace post, you could lend them from your uniform, thanks.

 

Is that really the extent of your response?? What a surprise!

 

Unable to justify your false accusation and provide evidence which would support the erroneous thesis that Anti-Zionism is indeed Anti-Semitism, so instead you resort to issuing your a-typical 'I've not got a clue what am talking about, so I'll end all debate here' one liner...followed by a futile attempt at humour.

 

If you however wish to debate your perennial bigotry 'agenda' against the NO voters and Unionists, then fire away!

[noidletalk81]

Nookie Bear, on 22 Nov 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

"Where does one begin?"

 

By ignoring your deluded pesh is always a good start.

 

Makes the suggestion to ignore my observations, whilst simultaneously taking the time to respond to such!

 

Rational 101!

[Sheriff Fatman]

The three kings is the name given to the three stars of orions belt which point to the the position on the horizon, looking east, at which the sun rises at the winter Equinox

 

The sun rises at different points on the horizon each day until the 22nd Dec where, curiously, it rises from the same point on the horizon for three days signalling the equinox and the shortest days of the year, on the 25th December the sun rises so that a longer day, the first after the Equinox is achieved, the new sun, the start of longer lit days, the birth of the new solar year

 

The 25th was recognised as the day of the birth of the new sun, not new son. It has been recorded in far older religions and there are many deities sharing the three kings, birth on 25/12 to a virgin mother story, there is nothing new about the claims made of the time of Jesus' birth

 

Human beings, not understanding the stars, anthropomorphisised those celestial beings and this formed the basis of these religious stories

 

Other than the bible, there are no extensive texts written about Jesus, a time and place in history where humans were recording everything, detailed accounts of roman emporers of the time are easy to find but no independent records of a man who could walk on water etc

 

It's all a myth and if humanity is to progress we really need to ditch these superstitions pronto

 

One problem, the Bible never mentions a number, never calls them kings and never actually states the gender. All its says is Magi, which was the religious caste of the Zoroastrianists. The only mention of a number is the number of gifts.

[noidletalk81]

aussieh, on 22 Nov 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:aussieh, on 22 Nov 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

Straight back at you. Dont use Zionism as a cover for Anti Semitism.

 

I wonder what the oldest and truest form of Jewry thinks about the claim that Anti-Zionism is the same as Anti-Semitism.

 

Source: http://www.truetorahjews.org/mission

 

Our Mission

The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

 

1. Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.

 

2. Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah-centered understanding of our peoplehood with an armed materialism.

 

True Torah Jews is dedicated to informing the world and in particular the American public and politicians that not all Jews support the ideology of the Zionist state called "Israel". In fact, a great number of Orthodox Jews view the ideology of that state as diametrically opposed to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

 

We are concerned that the widespread misconception that all Jews support the Zionist state and its actions endangers Jews worldwide.

 

We are NOT politically motivated. We are motivated by our concern for the peace and safety of all people throughout the world including those living in the Zionist state.

 

We support and pray for peace for the people of the Zionist state but have no interest in and do not support the Zionist government.

 

We seek to disassociate Jews and traditional Judaism from the Zionist ideology by:

 

1. Providing historical and supporting documentation that Zionism is totally contrary to the teachings of traditional Judaism through the words of our Rabbis, Sages, and Holy Scriptures which oppose the creation of a state called Israel.

 

2. Providing historical documentation on the ideology and creation of Zionism, the supporters of Zionism and the negative impact of their actions on the Jewish people in the past hundred years, including their involvement in the Holocaust and their activities up to the present day.

 

3. Publicizing the efforts of traditional Jews to demonstrate their opposition to Zionism, efforts which are often ignored by the mainstream media.

 

4. Convincing the news media, politicians and the public to cease referring to the State of Israel as the "Jewish State" but to call it what it is: the "Zionist State".

We also aim to reach out to our Jewish brethren who have never studied the subject of Zionism from a Torah perspective, and have only been taught the Zionist side of the story. It is our hope that all of our fellow Jews will soon open their eyes, return to Torah and reject this ideology that replaces the Jew's age-old hope for G-d's redemption with a false redemption and a human-initiated state.

 

 

That is just for starters....shall we continue to exploit your lies and pathetic accusation 'aussieh'??

 

 

[aussieh]

sad and predictable, as I said stock response to avoid any debate. After reading the utter garbage you spout on the election threads I suppose I should have expected nothing less from you.

Oh, im dead hurted.

Whats the big no no about an the state of israel and it being shock horror, being funded by jews. Not all of the family supported the state of israel did they?.

Anyway I prefer the Rasta Zion.

 

 

 

Whats my garbage on Scotland git to do with Anti Semitic opinions.

Or is only religious prejudice when it forms part of your arguement, see Corbyn thread.

[aussieh]

Is that really the extent of your response?? What a surprise!

 

Unable to justify your false accusation and provide evidence which would support the erroneous thesis that Anti-Zionism is indeed Anti-Semitism, so instead you resort to issuing your a-typical 'I've not got a clue what am talking about, so I'll end all debate here' one liner...followed by a futile attempt at humour.

 

If you however wish to debate your perennial bigotry 'agenda' against the NO voters and Unionists, then fire away!

There it is again, overlapping threads.

Theres one difference, Im honest about how I feel about them, I dont hide it under falsehoods.

Theres not one shread of evidence that shows the Rothschild family are the worlds evil rulers.

Only anti semitic agendas and the fact no one can get there hands on there assets.

 

Anyway some folk really need to get a life, or a wife.

[aussieh]

I wonder what the oldest and truest form of Jewry thinks about the claim that Anti-Zionism is the same as Anti-Semitism.

 

Source: http://www.truetorahjews.org/mission

 

Our Mission

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

 

1. Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.

 

2. Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah-centered understanding of our peoplehood with an armed materialism.

 

True Torah Jews is dedicated to informing the world and in particular the American public and politicians that not all Jews support the ideology of the Zionist state called "Israel". In fact, a great number of Orthodox Jews view the ideology of that state as diametrically opposed to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

 

We are concerned that the widespread misconception that all Jews support the Zionist state and its actions endangers Jews worldwide.

 

We are NOT politically motivated. We are motivated by our concern for the peace and safety of all people throughout the world including those living in the Zionist state.

 

We support and pray for peace for the people of the Zionist state but have no interest in and do not support the Zionist government.

 

We seek to disassociate Jews and traditional Judaism from the Zionist ideology by:

 

1. Providing historical and supporting documentation that Zionism is totally contrary to the teachings of traditional Judaism through the words of our Rabbis, Sages, and Holy Scriptures which oppose the creation of a state called Israel.

 

2. Providing historical documentation on the ideology and creation of Zionism, the supporters of Zionism and the negative impact of their actions on the Jewish people in the past hundred years, including their involvement in the Holocaust and their activities up to the present day.

 

3. Publicizing the efforts of traditional Jews to demonstrate their opposition to Zionism, efforts which are often ignored by the mainstream media.

 

4. Convincing the news media, politicians and the public to cease referring to the State of Israel as the "Jewish State" but to call it what it is: the "Zionist State".

We also aim to reach out to our Jewish brethren who have never studied the subject of Zionism from a Torah perspective, and have only been taught the Zionist side of the story. It is our hope that all of our fellow Jews will soon open their eyes, return to Torah and reject this ideology that replaces the Jew's age-old hope for G-d's redemption with a false redemption and a human-initiated state.

 

 

That is just for starters....shall we continue to exploit your lies and pathetic accusation 'aussieh'??

 

 

Who said it was the same, I said people use it as an excuse, do you.

[aussieh]

I wonder what the oldest and truest form of Jewry thinks about the claim that Anti-Zionism is the same as Anti-Semitism.

 

Source: http://www.truetorahjews.org/mission

 

Our Mission

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The relatively new concept of Zionism began only about one hundred years ago and since that time Torah-true Jewry has steadfastly opposed the Zionist ideology. This struggle is rooted in two convictions:

 

1. Zionism, by advocating a political and military end to the Jewish exile, denies the very essence of our Diaspora existence. We are in exile by Divine Decree and may emerge from exile solely via Divine Redemption. All human efforts to alter a metaphysical reality are doomed to end in failure and bloodshed. History has clearly borne out this teaching.

 

2. Zionism has not only denied our fundamental belief in Heavenly Redemption it has also created a pseudo-Judaism which views the essence of our identity to be a secular nationalism. Accordingly, Zionism and the Israeli state have consistently endeavored, via persuasion and coercion, to replace a Divine and Torah-centered understanding of our peoplehood with an armed materialism.

 

True Torah Jews is dedicated to informing the world and in particular the American public and politicians that not all Jews support the ideology of the Zionist state called "Israel". In fact, a great number of Orthodox Jews view the ideology of that state as diametrically opposed to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

 

We are concerned that the widespread misconception that all Jews support the Zionist state and its actions endangers Jews worldwide.

 

We are NOT politically motivated. We are motivated by our concern for the peace and safety of all people throughout the world including those living in the Zionist state.

 

We support and pray for peace for the people of the Zionist state but have no interest in and do not support the Zionist government.

 

We seek to disassociate Jews and traditional Judaism from the Zionist ideology by:

 

1. Providing historical and supporting documentation that Zionism is totally contrary to the teachings of traditional Judaism through the words of our Rabbis, Sages, and Holy Scriptures which oppose the creation of a state called Israel.

 

2. Providing historical documentation on the ideology and creation of Zionism, the supporters of Zionism and the negative impact of their actions on the Jewish people in the past hundred years, including their involvement in the Holocaust and their activities up to the present day.

 

3. Publicizing the efforts of traditional Jews to demonstrate their opposition to Zionism, efforts which are often ignored by the mainstream media.

 

4. Convincing the news media, politicians and the public to cease referring to the State of Israel as the "Jewish State" but to call it what it is: the "Zionist State".

We also aim to reach out to our Jewish brethren who have never studied the subject of Zionism from a Torah perspective, and have only been taught the Zionist side of the story. It is our hope that all of our fellow Jews will soon open their eyes, return to Torah and reject this ideology that replaces the Jew's age-old hope for G-d's redemption with a false redemption and a human-initiated state.

 

 

That is just for starters....shall we continue to exploit your lies and pathetic accusation 'aussieh'??

 

 

Theres no point talking to someone who obviously has stacks of propanda stored on their devices to post on threads, against just everyday joes who dont see the world quite as sick and twisted.

Anyone who takes David"Jesus Christ"Icke seriously, are not playing with a full deck, as far as im concerned.