"God Bless you"

[noidletalk81]

aussieh, on 22 Nov 2015 - 4:33 PM, said:

Who said it was the same, I said people use it as an excuse, do you.

 

You did by comically accusing me of being an Anti-Semite for merely opposing Zionism...the highest form genocidal imperialism on the face of the earth.

 

If you fail to comprehend that or views expressed by the Orthodox Jews at the largest non-profit Jewish organisation (TrueTorahJew) then I suggest you save your energy for aggressively attacking innocent NO voters.

[Notts1874]

How did this thread move from being excused after sneezing to Zionism?

[aussieh]

You did by comically accusing me of being an Anti-Semite for merely opposing Zionism...the highest form genocidal imperialism on the face of the earth.

 

If you fail to comprehend that or views expressed by the Orthodox Jews at the largest non-profit Jewish organisation (TrueTorahJew) then I suggest you save your energy for aggressively attacking innocent NO voters.

You ma man, are dangerous.

Theres a difference the No voters broke my heart, I dont hate them I do NOT agree with them one jot and im angry about it, so I say daft things, but id go for a right good bucket with traps, gw, dee, mags, gk, x2 any day of the week, theyre just as passionate as me, doesnt make them bad people because they voted no.(British though )

You, well id put money on it that youve read up on a lot of onesided propaganda and its fecked with your mind. 1897ish zionism began and yes rothschilds were involved by petition the Britush to form Israel, but rothschilds opposed it too.

[Nookie Bear]

Makes the suggestion to ignore my observations, whilst simultaneously taking the time to respond to such!

 

Rational 101!

Ok, I'll respond: the average Joe doesn't give a big shiny one about Zionism, Palestine, Israel or any other variation on that theme. For every meme or smart quote you post on here, there will be an alternative poster on another website posting he exact opposite,mand equally compelling,argument.

 

Who has time for this? I will pray for peace in that part of the world but I'm not going to waste time listening to argument and counter-argument.

 

At least Aussieh's garbage is relevant to us ;-)

[aussieh]

You ma man, are dangerous.

Theres a difference the No voters broke my heart, I dont hate them I do NOT agree with them one jot and im angry about it, so I say daft things, but id go for a right good bucket with traps, gw, dee, mags, gk, x2 and Nooks any day of the week, theyre just as passionate as me, doesnt make them bad people because they voted no.(British though )

You, well id put money on it that youve read up on a lot of onesided propaganda and its fecked with your mind. 1897ish zionism began and yes rothschilds were involved by petition the British to form Israel, but rothschilds opposed it too.

[noidletalk81]

How did this thread move from being excused after sneezing to Zionism?

 

Aussieh decided to wrongfully accuse me of being Anti-Semetic for opposing Zionism, such is his complete lack of understanding of the subject matter.

[noidletalk81]

aussieh, on 22 Nov 2015 - 5:28 PM, said:

You ma man, are dangerous.

Theres a difference the No voters broke my heart, I dont hate them I do NOT agree with them one jot and im angry about it, so I say daft things, but id go for a right good bucket with traps, gw, dee, mags, gk, x2 any day of the week, theyre just as passionate as me, doesnt make them bad people because they voted no.(British though )

You, well id put money on it that youve read up on a lot of onesided propaganda and its fecked with your mind. 1897ish zionism began and yes rothschilds were involved by petition the Britush to form Israel, but rothschilds opposed it too.

 

Dangerous for exposing your lies, false accusations and 18 month hate campaign against NO voters??

 

If that's my conviction then I have no problem accepting such!

 

The truth often hurts!

[aussieh]

Dangerous for exposing your lies, false accusations and 18 month hate campaign against NO voters??

 

If that's my conviction then I have no problem accepting such!

 

The truth often hurts!

18 months, well I been posting for 13, so wrong again, you cant talk to a rubber ear, you could prove everything to the likes of yourself, but youd just dismiss it, anyone who thinks America destroyed the towers, or france carried out last weeks events is a screaming skull and a danger to everyone and themselves.

 

A hate campaign is it, really?. Is this your tactic, deflect to the indyref vote?.

Im away with ma dogs, keep the legs high.

[noidletalk81]

aussieh, on 22 Nov 2015 - 6:17 PM, said:

18 months, well I been posting for 13, so wrong again, you cant talk to a rubber ear, you could prove everything to the likes of yourself, but youd just dismiss it, anyone who thinks America destroyed the towers, or france carried out last weeks events is a screaming skull and a danger to everyone and themselves.

 

A hate campaign is it, really?. Is this your tactic, deflect to the indyref vote?.

Im away with ma dogs, keep the legs high.

 

Deflect from what exactly? You wrongfully accuse two members of being Anti-Semitic and having an agenda, this from the same individual that has attacked NO voters on here continuously and seeks to mention it at every opportunity?? Aye, very good!

 

Your away with your Dogs right enough...am sure they are the ones holding the leash!

 

Enjoy your walk now!

[aussieh]

Deflect from what exactly? You wrongfully accuse two members of being Anti-Semitic and having an agenda, this from the same individual that has attacked NO voters on here continuously and seeks to mention it at every opportunity?? Aye, very good!

 

Your away with your Dogs right enough...am sure they are the ones holding the leash!

 

Enjoy your walk now!

2, no I didnt, df no, you, your para got a hold of you.

I didnt mention any indyref, df and you did and fwiw I only reply to other posters when I do mention it.

 

Internet works outside, whod of thought it.

[noidletalk81]

Ok, I'll respond: the average Joe doesn't give a big shiny one about Zionism, Palestine, Israel or any other variation on that theme. For every meme or smart quote you post on here, there will be an alternative poster on another website posting he exact opposite,mand equally compelling,argument.

 

Who has time for this? I will pray for peace in that part of the world but I'm not going to waste time listening to argument and counter-argument.

 

At least Aussieh's garbage is relevant to us ;-)

 

Appreciate your response mate.

 

Well, I certainly don't expect people to give a hoot about the genocidal crimes against humanity conducted in the name of Zionism. I do personally, I expressed that in relation to whom I believe orchestrates the majority of the wars and have done since the late 17th century (a direct response to 'i8hibsh' claim that Religion is responsible for 99.9% of wars) and was delusionally branded an Anti-Semite for it....such is someone's severe lack of comprehension. I express my observations on here with integrity and stand by them, I don't ram them down anyone throats. I am always more than willing to debate such, but some are unable to do so.

 

The information and quotes I posted from Jews were to illustrate my point, that Zionism is in no way, shape or form a representation of the Jewish people and their religion, and directly opposing such a regime is certainly not Anti-Semitic in any language.

 

Cheers

[i8hibsh]

Apologies,  I have been having a life all weekend, what have I missed? aussieh still bursting his blood vessels trying to come across as 'Mr Nice'?

[maroonlegions]

Fecking religion eh, historically brutal  for its treatment towards those who dared speak out against it, brutal for its  warmongering in the name of the  Christom, Holy Wars, burning of so called witches, naturalists in reality.

 

To think some actually believe in such a God,fecking mental health issues there i feel.   

[i8hibsh]

Fecking religion eh, historically brutal  for its treatment towards those who dared speak out against it, brutal for its  warmongering in the name of the  Christom, Holy Wars, burning of so called witches, naturalists in reality.

 

To think some actually believe in such a God,fecking mental health issues there i feel.   

 

If only they could see it from the outside looking in at themselves and they would be incredulous.  It?s absurdities have no limits.  They would see people living their lives trying to impress some imaginary figure in the sky,  praying to this person,  congregating with like-minded people worshiping this person and citing his name at every opportunity.  They would see them read a fictitious book and live by it?s superstitions, rituals, rules and stories.  It would see people wearing silly clothes or necklaces, waving smoke, bowing to the floor all facing a same direction or standing staring at a wall.  He will see that this person is revered beyond anything that seemed possible, talked of so highly and looked upon as the epitome of niceness and perfection.  They would be told that this person controls and sees everything going on.

 

They would then think wow this person must be perfect and amazing,  then the prosecution comes in and puts an endless amount of evidence on the table proving that the person is the extreme opposite of good and then think WTF!  They would see the centuries of bloodshed and the wars that have stemmed from it.  They will see sectarian views and violence, they will see that the vast majority of the planet?s inhabitants are living in extreme unimaginable poverty, seeing the constant injustice in life,  the heartache, the pain, the illness, the misery, death, hatred, violence, rape, abuse, extinction of beautiful species, inequality and the general inbalance of life and be utterly disgusted.  Disgusted that such pure obvious evil can be looked upon with anything but disgust.

 

I just with people would really really take a minute and just look at it for what it is.  Complete and utter bullshit and reprehensible repugnancy.  A complete skin crawl of ideologies and enough vileness to shock even the middle ages.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Name 10 non religious wars from history.

 

There have been hundreds of wars in history, name 10 that were non religious.

 

Boy, that's a tough one.  Other than the Crimean War, WWI, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Peloponnesian War (oops, you probably think anyone who studies that was "deluded"), the Opium Wars, the Falklands War, the 1990 Gulf War, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the American Civil War, the American War for Independence, the American War of 1812, the French and Indian War, the Napoleonic Wars, the Hundred Years War, the Arab Spring rebellion in Libya, the War of the Roses, the 1917 Soviet revolution, the Autumn Harvest Uprising, the Japanese occupation of Korea, the American plains Indians wars of the late 19th century, the Spanish-American war, the Cuban revolution, Toussaint L'ouverture's revolt in Haiti, the Chenyan revolt, the Pinochet coup in Chile, the Contra/Sandanista war in Nicaragua, the civil war in El Salvador, the FARC rebellion in Colombia, the Mexican-American war, the Rwandan genocide, the Congolese civil war, Idi Amin's coup, the Boer wars, the Sierra Leone Civil War, the Chinese occupation of Tibet, and the overthrow of the Marco dictatorship in the Philippines, I can't think of a single one.  But give me another minute and I'll try.

[i8hibsh]

Boy, that's a tough one.  Other than the Crimean War, WWI, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Peloponnesian War (oops, you probably think anyone who studies that was "deluded"), the Opium Wars, the Falklands War, the 1990 Gulf War, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the American Civil War, the American War for Independence, the American War of 1812, the French and Indian War, the Napoleonic Wars, the Hundred Years War, the Arab Spring rebellion in Libya, the War of the Roses, the 1917 Soviet revolution, the Autumn Harvest Uprising, the Japanese occupation of Korea, the American plains Indians wars of the late 19th century, the Spanish-American war, the Cuban revolution, Toussaint L'ouverture's revolt in Haiti, the Chenyan revolt, the Pinochet coup in Chile, the Contra/Sandanista war in Nicaragua, the civil war in El Salvador, the FARC rebellion in Colombia, the Mexican-American war, the Rwandan genocide, the Congolese civil war, Idi Amin's coup, the Boer wars, the Sierra Leone Civil War, the Chinese occupation of Tibet, and the overthrow of the Marco dictatorship in the Philippines, I can't think of a single one.  But give me another minute and I'll try.

 

4 days for that! really?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 days for that! really?

 

This may shock you, but I have things to do other than factually correct your nonsense.  Today was the first day I've read the Shed since you posted this.  Took 10 minutes.

[i8hibsh]

Boy, that's a tough one.  Other than the Crimean War, WWI, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Peloponnesian War (oops, you probably think anyone who studies that was "deluded"), the Opium Wars, the Falklands War, the 1990 Gulf War, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the American Civil War, the American War for Independence, the American War of 1812, the French and Indian War, the Napoleonic Wars, the Hundred Years War, the Arab Spring rebellion in Libya, the War of the Roses, the 1917 Soviet revolution, the Autumn Harvest Uprising, the Japanese occupation of Korea, the American plains Indians wars of the late 19th century, the Spanish-American war, the Cuban revolution, Toussaint L'ouverture's revolt in Haiti, the Chenyan revolt, the Pinochet coup in Chile, the Contra/Sandanista war in Nicaragua, the civil war in El Salvador, the FARC rebellion in Colombia, the Mexican-American war, the Rwandan genocide, the Congolese civil war, Idi Amin's coup, the Boer wars, the Sierra Leone Civil War, the Chinese occupation of Tibet, and the overthrow of the Marco dictatorship in the Philippines, I can't think of a single one.  But give me another minute and I'll try.

 

 

Ok i'll start  - The Crimean war was about minority Christians rights in the Holy land.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Ok i'll start  - The Crimean war was about minority Christians rights in the Holy land.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

 

Oops, you're right, I forgot that context.  You got one out of my quick-hit list.  However, Wikipedia does immediately go on to add...

 

 

The longer-term causes involved the decline of the Ottoman Empire and the unwillingness of the United Kingdom and France to allow Russia to gain territory and power at Ottoman expense. It has widely been noted that the causes, in one case involving an argument over a key, have never revealed a "greater confusion of purpose", yet led to a war noted for its "notoriously incompetent international butchery."[9]

 

While the churches eventually worked out their differences and came to an initial agreement, both Nicholas I of Russia and Napoleon III refused to back down.

[maroonlegions]

Stands to reason that if all religions are man made then so is their god. Begs the question yet again , proof of God can never be fully comprehended by those engaging in a man made religion.  Just saying like.    

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Stands to reason that if all religions are man made then so is their god. Begs the question yet again , proof of God can never be fully comprehended by those engaging in a man made religion.  Just saying like.    

 

This, 100%.  

 

I may disagree with some critiques of religion on here, but it's nothing in comparison to my disagreement with religious people who claim that their beliefs allow for certainty or full comprehension of God or gods or the universe or whatever.

[Maple Leaf]

Numerous off topic posts removed.

[MrRobbo10]

Doubt very much the events in the op happened, very strange if true though

[maroonlegions]

This, 100%.  

 

I may disagree with some critiques of religion on here, but it's nothing in comparison to my disagreement with religious people who claim that their beliefs allow for certainty or full comprehension of God or gods or the universe or whatever.

 

Yip,full comprehension of God , Gods or universal delites seems to be more of a personal struggle than a collective cooperative get together on any given  Sunday.   

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Yip,full comprehension of God , Gods or universal delites seems to be more of a personal struggle than a collective cooperative get together on any given  Sunday.   

 

I'm in church partially because I think understanding of these broader questions happens better as a conversation with others rather than a uniquely personal decision.  But it should absolutely be a personal decision as to whom one wants to have that conversation with, if at all.

[tian447]

The thing I don't get about religion:

After praying for stuff that never happened, why didn't people give up on it a long time ago?  It's baffling how it would continue for so long!

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The thing I don't get about religion:

 

After praying for stuff that never happened, why didn't people give up on it a long time ago?  It's baffling how it would continue for so long!

 

Prayer is about a good bit more than just asking for stuff to happen.  And there are a growing number of psychology studies coming out demonstrating that things like prayer, whether directed to a deity or not, are helpful for the mind.

 

A major aspect of prayer is gratitude, which multiple studies have shown leads to greater happiness overall.  (http://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/giving-thanks-can-make-you-happier)

 

Prayer has also been demonstrated to benefit relationships.  I can't lay hands on the study at the moment, but in the past few years I read a summary of a study (I think in the Journal of Applied Psychology but can't remember specifically) where a number of practices were introduced for couples, and one of the most successful even among atheists was getting the couples to "pray" for each other.  (Atheists were instructed to take a moment to quietly express thoughts of good wishes and concern for their partners.)

 

And of course there's the big boom in "mindfulness" right now, which is causing Christians to go back and unearth the largely forgotten practice of contemplative prayer, which has some similarities to things like transcendental meditation.

 

tl;dr -- there's some decent evidence to show that prayer is worthwhile, even if there's no "imaginary friend" listening.

[Ron Burgundy]

If you don't believe in God or religion then saying RIP is equally ridiculous as saying God bless you.

[i8hibsh]

If you don't believe in God or religion then saying RIP is equally ridiculous as saying God bless you.

I get what you are saying but I don't agree. RIP just means(to me) respect. No hidden meanings and no God's business card handed over. I do hate 90% of all RIP threads on here tho (10% for Jambo fans are fine).

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

I don't get offended by it as nothing offends me, but it really gets me angry when...(continues)

:lol:

 

Five pages on another incoherent stream of conciousness from I8. The BBC should sign him up for Jackanory.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Don't worry i8. Just ask people to say "Gesundheit" instead.

[Governor Tarkin]

Don't worry i8. Just ask people to say "Gesundheit" instead.

I had to google that

 

Well this thread has been mildly amusing.

Some absolute bangers kicking around the board these days.

 

i8,There are loads of biblical phrases in common use in everyday life. Do you get all flustered at them too?

[i8hibsh]

I had to google that

So did Geoff.

[i8hibsh]

I had to google that

Well this thread has been mildly amusing.

Some absolute bangers kicking around the board these days.

i8,There are loads of biblical phrases in common use in everyday life. Do you get all flustered at them too?

My first 2 names are biblical too. Not much can be done. It is going to happen after 2,000 years of it being everywhere.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So did Geoff.

It's called knowledge i8. You still have time to get some

[i8hibsh]

It's called knowledge i8. You still have time to get some

If you are even a tenth as intelligent as you are so desperate to come across as on here then I salute you. But we all know your Google takes an absolute pounding when you are on here (which is pretty much 24/7).

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

If you are even a tenth as intelligent as you are so desperate to come across as on here then I salute you. But we all know your Google takes an absolute pounding when you are on here (which is pretty much 24/7).

Gesundheit i8. Don't ever change.

[Governor Tarkin]

Gesundheit i8. Don't ever change.

[Governor Tarkin]

My first 2 names are biblical too. Not much can be done. It is going to happen after 2,000 years of it being everywhere.

Aye, that's the thing though. The whole "God bless you" schtick is surely a function of the same tradition and habit.

I doubt very much some poor urchin really wants their chosen deity to bless me when I stroll past without parting with my spare change.

[tian447]

Prayer is about a good bit more than just asking for stuff to happen.  And there are a growing number of psychology studies coming out demonstrating that things like prayer, whether directed to a deity or not, are helpful for the mind.

 

A major aspect of prayer is gratitude, which multiple studies have shown leads to greater happiness overall.  (http://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/giving-thanks-can-make-you-happier)

 

Prayer has also been demonstrated to benefit relationships.  I can't lay hands on the study at the moment, but in the past few years I read a summary of a study (I think in the Journal of Applied Psychology but can't remember specifically) where a number of practices were introduced for couples, and one of the most successful even among atheists was getting the couples to "pray" for each other.  (Atheists were instructed to take a moment to quietly express thoughts of good wishes and concern for their partners.)

 

And of course there's the big boom in "mindfulness" right now, which is causing Christians to go back and unearth the largely forgotten practice of contemplative prayer, which has some similarities to things like transcendental meditation.

 

tl;dr -- there's some decent evidence to show that prayer is worthwhile, even if there's no "imaginary friend" listening.

 

I guess it's more about voicing your thoughts and concerns, etc, and being able to come to terms with them yourself instead of ignoring them.  That part I can understand.

 

It's the praying for forgiveness and for help that I don't understand.  If you were praying for your friends and family during the Black Death, but they all died anyway, surely you would quickly come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter?

[Jambo 4 Ever]

I waver back and forth on this a bit

 

On the one hand I think everyone should make their own peace with the universe and it's a natural human instinct to believe (for me it's very much something I have to physically not do and I'll find myself thanking the big man in the sky when something particularly lucky goes my way) and none of it matters a jot anyway.

 

On the other hand I think anyone who believes in the christian God is a moron and has probably been tragically brainwashed into it by their parents at an early age

What about all the celebs in this clip? Can they all be brain washed? Im not so sure...

 

[Boris]

What about all the celebs in this clip? Can they all be brain washed? Im not so sure...

Not that they would be wanting to ingratiate themselves with a certain demographic...

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how a brainwashed Catholic priest managed to found modern genetics.

 

Or how a guy who got brainwashed as an adult managed to lead the Human Genome Initiative.

 

 

To be clear once more -- if you're an atheist (or anything else) and that's working for you, awesome.  It's the mind-numbingly simplistic understanding of what religion fundamentally is that I'm arguing against.

[Stephen Muddie]

I'm not sure about religion. I just try not to piss God off too much. I refrain from being a disrespectful, arrogant, immature, authoritarian, know-it-all reprobate, just in case 

[Boris]

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how a brainwashed Catholic priest managed to found modern genetics.

 

Or how a guy who got brainwashed as an adult managed to lead the Human Genome Initiative.

 

 

To be clear once more -- if you're an atheist (or anything else) and that's working for you, awesome.  It's the mind-numbingly simplistic understanding of what religion fundamentally is that I'm arguing against.

Apologies if I'm not getting your point, but when you refer to "simplistic understanding", is that by aethiests or by believers, or both!

[Maple Leaf]

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how a brainwashed Catholic priest managed to found modern genetics.

 

Or how a guy who got brainwashed as an adult managed to lead the Human Genome Initiative.

 

 

To be clear once more -- if you're an atheist (or anything else) and that's working for you, awesome.  It's the mind-numbingly simplistic understanding of what religion fundamentally is that I'm arguing against.

 

The term 'brainwashed' should not be used.  It's provocative and inaccurate.  Most children are taught religious belief by their parents, just as they are taught table manners, or how to ride a bike, or how to tie their shoelaces.  None of that is brainwashing.

 

As for Gregor Mendel, holding religious beliefs and being a clever scientist are not mutually exclusive characteristics, and never have been.

[Riddley Walker]

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how a brainwashed Catholic priest managed to found modern genetics.

 

Or how a guy who got brainwashed as an adult managed to lead the Human Genome Initiative.

 

 

To be clear once more -- if you're an atheist (or anything else) and that's working for you, awesome. It's the mind-numbingly simplistic understanding of what religion fundamentally is that I'm arguing against.

Because you could still be an exceptionally clever scientist but also have been brainwashed into believing that God is real. That's quite simple isn't it?

 

I've known a few religious types who pick and choose which parts of their religion to follow depending on their lifestyle choice.

[Stephen Muddie]

What is God? That'd be my first question. Not who or why am I here, but What is God?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Apologies if I'm not getting your point, but when you refer to "simplistic understanding", is that by aethiests or by believers, or both!

 

There's plenty of believers that I think have awful understandings of religion too, but the "brainwashed" chat about people who are religious is nonsense.

 

I spent 10 years out of the church before reluctantly deciding to go back.  Francis Collins was raised nominally religious but was atheist for a couple of decades before heading back to church (he's more evangelical than I'm comfortable with -- so it goes).

 

Again, if you're not religious, cool.  But the understandings of why someone would go to church -- "brainwashed," "scared," "ignorant," "crazy" -- are problematic not because they're insulting (I mean they are, but not in any particularly hurtful way), but because they're a gross misunderstanding of why people practice religion in the first place.  

 

The answer is that it's very complicated and people do it for a huge number of different reasons, some that I find simplistic and stupid, but the broad brush, dismissive explanation annoy me because they leave no ground for any kind of mutual understanding.

 

 

What is God? That'd be my first question. Not who or why am I here, but What is God?

 

If there were a single easy answer to that, having conversations about religion would be incredibly easier. The Westminster Shorter Catechism, which was the Church of Scotland and other Reformed churches attempt to come up with a single answer for questions like that, came up with this: "God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth."  Which, of course, clarifies very little.

[Swarlos]

There's plenty of believers that I think have awful understandings of religion too, but the "brainwashed" chat about people who are religious is nonsense.

 

I spent 10 years out of the church before reluctantly deciding to go back.  Francis Collins was raised nominally religious but was atheist for a couple of decades before heading back to church (he's more evangelical than I'm comfortable with -- so it goes).

 

Again, if you're not religious, cool.  But the understandings of why someone would go to church -- "brainwashed," "scared," "ignorant," "crazy" -- are problematic not because they're insulting (I mean they are, but not in any particularly hurtful way), but because they're a gross misunderstanding of why people practice religion in the first place.  

 

The answer is that it's very complicated and people do it for a huge number of different reasons, some that I find simplistic and stupid, but the broad brush, dismissive explanation annoy me because they leave no ground for any kind of mutual understanding.

 

 

 

If there were a single easy answer to that, having conversations about religion would be incredibly easier. The Westminster Shorter Catechism, which was the Church of Scotland and other Reformed churches attempt to come up with a single answer for questions like that, came up with this: "God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth."  Which, of course, clarifies very little.

 

All the 'answers' put forward by religion are broad/vague enough so that they can't be questioned or scrutinised. It's how the whole thing survives.