Chris Benoit Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Sorry man, but that is a myth. Zaliukas was a key figure in 09/10 when we finished third, and our results turned immediately disastrous when he was frozen out in 10/11 - all before Webster arrived. I like Webster and think they have formed a good partnership, but giving him credit for Zaliukas' development really irritates me. All spot on Tommy but I will give D4 the benefit that Zal has played his best for us alongside Webster and on their game I wouldn't swap them for another defensive pair in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 All spot on Tommy but I will give D4 the benefit that Zal has played his best for us alongside Webster and on their game I wouldn't swap them for another defensive pair in the league. Fair. I would also say that people who insist we have to choose between them (i.e. if you rate one you must hate the other) are almost as irritating as those who credit Webster for Zaliukas' form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 All spot on Tommy but I will give D4 the benefit that Zal has played his best for us alongside Webster and on their game I wouldn't swap them for another defensive pair in the league. The fact is in any team you need to contrasting centre halves and Zal and Webster provided that. And out of those two one has to be the leader, and that is Zal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Sorry man, but that is a myth. Zaliukas was a key figure in 09/10 when we finished third, and our results turned immediately disastrous when he was frozen out in 10/11 - all before Webster arrived. I like Webster and think they have formed a good partnership, but giving him credit for Zaliukas' development really irritates me. Both are class defenders. But I certainly think Webster has helped Zal cut out the flaws that were part of his game. I'm not saying Webster has helped his development as Zal formed really good partnerships with Berra, Goncalves, Karipidis and Bouzid before we even signed Webster. But Webster and Zaliukas compliment eachother very well and have both brought out the best in eachother's game in the last couple of years. We have been very lucky to have them both. Webby's still the man though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 IMHO Webster has become lazy with his defending and tries to take the easy option now rather than rolling up his sleeves and getting stuck in. He is trying to become like Elvis, who was brilliant at reading the game, organising the defence, influencing referee, playing clever (i.e getting fouls from forwards) and sometimes taking the easy option into stand z. Just because your in your 30's doesn't mean these things come naturally and in Websters case, not at all. He doesn't seem a natural leader at Tynecastle, he gets caught out and makes wrong decisions. Without Zal taking the lead in defence he's been shown up. We lost a cup final we should have won because we played stupid off side twice, the problem is the young players around him will follow his lead. It's easy lazy defending and yesterday was another example. Our most experienced player putting himself in a position to get sent off by going for a nothing header on the half way line? Come on. He's not called stroller for nothing. I'm not sure keeping him next season will be a good decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Chappy Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Were his 2 bookings merited? If so I hope the club hammers him. Cost us the game imo. As soon as we had to go 1 up front I knew we wern't scoring. Just saw the highlights and the guy's a prize dickhead for his second yellow card. Deserved to be sent off and cost is a point. Don't all yell at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Fair. I would also say that people who insist we have to choose between them (i.e. if you rate one you must hate the other) are almost as irritating as those who credit Webster for Zaliukas' form. Sorry it irritates you........there`s alot irritates me on here but its still about opinions. I wouldn`t say Webster has wholly developed Zaliukas, that would be stupid, he`s his own man and and still has to do it himself to improve. But Zal`s career at Hearts has been littered with stupid mistakes which many refuse to remember on here, even though now he is a good , solid defender. That`s the difference for me. Football covers a long time and of course Webby has made mistakes but its not one characteristic you`d remember him for. Anyway, its all a bit petty....I sincerely hope both can somehow be kept on next season. It`d be a huge boost in these needy times for HMFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Sorry it irritates you........there`s alot irritates me on here but its still about opinions. I wouldn`t say Webster has wholly developed Zaliukas, that would be stupid, he`s his own man and and still has to do it himself to improve. But Zal`s career at Hearts has been littered with stupid mistakes which many refuse to remember on here, even though now he is a good , solid defender. That`s the difference for me. Football covers a long time and of course Webby has made mistakes but its not one characteristic you`d remember him for. Anyway, its all a bit petty....I sincerely hope both can somehow be kept on next season. It`d be a huge boost in these needy times for HMFC. Elvis's early career was littered with mistakes! Why did he develop into a solid defender by the time he was 27/28? It's called experience! Zal has learned and improved as a player in a very similar way. Playing alongside another decent defender helps but, why did Zal still look good when Webster wasn't playing? And, there is no doubt the cork has been in the other bottle this season, with Webby making a good few more "bombscare" mistakes himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Vallance Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 IMHO Webster has become lazy with his defending and tries to take the easy option now rather than rolling up his sleeves and getting stuck in. He is trying to become like Elvis, who was brilliant at reading the game, organising the defence, influencing referee, playing clever (i.e getting fouls from forwards) and sometimes taking the easy option into stand z. Just because your in your 30's doesn't mean these things come naturally and in Websters case, not at all. He doesn't seem a natural leader at Tynecastle, he gets caught out and makes wrong decisions. Without Zal taking the lead in defence he's been shown up. We lost a cup final we should have won because we played stupid off side twice, the problem is the young players around him will follow his lead. It's easy lazy defending and yesterday was another example. Our most experienced player putting himself in a position to get sent off by going for a nothing header on the half way line? Come on. He's not called stroller for nothing. I'm not sure keeping him next season will be a good decision. Pretty much echo's my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerry Jambo Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 IMHO Webster has become lazy with his defending and tries to take the easy option now rather than rolling up his sleeves and getting stuck in. He is trying to become like Elvis, who was brilliant at reading the game, organising the defence, influencing referee, playing clever (i.e getting fouls from forwards) and sometimes taking the easy option into stand z. Just because your in your 30's doesn't mean these things come naturally and in Websters case, not at all. He doesn't seem a natural leader at Tynecastle, he gets caught out and makes wrong decisions. Without Zal taking the lead in defence he's been shown up. We lost a cup final we should have won because we played stupid off side twice, the problem is the young players around him will follow his lead. It's easy lazy defending and yesterday was another example. Our most experienced player putting himself in a position to get sent off by going for a nothing header on the half way line? Come on. He's not called stroller for nothing. I'm not sure keeping him next season will be a good decision. I agree it wasn't the best of defending but to ignore the chances we passed up, were more damaging IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john brownlee Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 stroll...verb walk noun....stroller.....walker...rambler..saunter, tramp, trudge,.amble, crawl, creep, dodders, stumble. take your pick he's been all of them since his return,,,,,, but I would replace stroller with lazy can't be bothered........ I don't care that posters are just begining to notice he's been crap as I 've been saying everytime there's a thread about the defence... even when captain Zal was getting the treatment. To me it was stroller that was causing most of the problems... And I for one hope he dosen't re-sign....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Khali Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 But Zal`s career at Hearts has been littered with stupid mistakes which many refuse to remember on here, even though now he is a good , solid defender. I genuinely think that's the other way about. The people who have said all along that Zal is a good player have alway said he's had stupid moments and daft mistakes, which he has thankfully 99% cut out. It's the people that concentrate on those mistakes of the past and refuse to acknowledge just how good a defender he has become that are the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Sorry it irritates you........there`s alot irritates me on here but its still about opinions. I wouldn`t say Webster has wholly developed Zaliukas, that would be stupid, he`s his own man and and still has to do it himself to improve. But Zal`s career at Hearts has been littered with stupid mistakes which many refuse to remember on here, even though now he is a good , solid defender. That`s the difference for me. Football covers a long time and of course Webby has made mistakes but its not one characteristic you`d remember him for. Anyway, its all a bit petty....I sincerely hope both can somehow be kept on next season. It`d be a huge boost in these needy times for HMFC. I remember one game, vs St Mirren I think, when Webby's errors could have cost us three goals in the first 15 minutes. Yet if Zal fluffed a header or a pass in the centre circle it would be a "bombscare moment". Most of Zal's errors, though some were truly spectacular, didn't in fact lead to anytyhing disastrous yet he got this reputaion of being a "bombscare who costs us a goal a game". He is a better player than he was but never remotely deserved that tag. Looking at other teams most central defenders have their "bombscare moments", in other words they make mistakes. One measure of a good team is that, while obviously minimising errors, it covers for the fact that players inevitably do make the occasional error. In our better times we did that, for Zal but also on more occasions than people recall, for Webby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 I can't wait for Andy Webster (the Scotland international) and Marius Zaliukas (our captain) to get punted at the end of the season, the best Centre Half pairing in the league! Should be no problem for us with those two ready made replacements we have just waiting to get into the team or with all that money we have swimming about the bank accounts to go out and buy two equally as good and reliable replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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