Conservative gains

[upthehill]

Across England & Wales, things are looking good. Anyone else sitting up watching the good results come in? Taking Southampton for example is massive

[Tazio]

But historically people use local elections to make impotent protests against elected government.

[I P Knightley]

But historically people use local elections to make impotent protests against elected government.

 

When they make these protest votes, the ruling government tend to take notice and act bfore the next genital election.

 

Half the time; it works.

 

This time, I think the Labour Government are witless and clueless and won't have a scooby how to react.

 

Let's hope it spells the end of Broon.

[Toggie88]

I hope the Tories give Labour a trouncing!*

 

The Labour Party is the one major party I have the least respect for.

 

They utterly disgusting.

 

 

*I'm still a radical left winger

[Toggie88]

Rather worringly, the BNP have picked up 5 councillor's.

[The People's Chimp]

I hope the Tories give Labour a trouncing!*

 

The Labour Party is the one major party I have the least respect for.

 

They utterly disgusting.

 

 

*I'm still a radical left winger

 

Sure you are.Keep on telling yourself that.

I'm sure all the radical left wingers in constituencies now run by tory councils will be more than chuffed with your support.

 

Oh i forgot!!!! As a nat you couldnm't give a flying F about english local elections. You obviously read your left wing history...

[Toggie88]

Sure you are.Keep on telling yourself that.

I'm sure all the radical left wingers in constituencies now run by tory councils will be more than chuffed with your support.

 

Oh i forgot!!!! As a nat you couldnm't give a flying F about english local elections. You obviously read your left wing history...

 

 

Well it all has a knock on affect. Tories in power down South = Greater support for Independence

[Toggie88]

Elction Results.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

FECK THE TORIES MAGGIE SHAFTED SCOTLAND AND CAMERON WILL DO THE SAME HARDLY ANY ****** VOTES TORY NORTH OF THE BORDER THE QUICKER WE GET INDEPENDENCE THE BETTER VOTE SNP

 

[upthehill]

FECK THE TORIES MAGGIE SHAFTED SCOTLAND AND CAMERON WILL DO THE SAME HARDLY ANY ****** VOTES TORY NORTH OF THE BORDER THE QUICKER WE GET INDEPENDENCE THE BETTER VOTE SNP

 

 

keep it up. I'm excited to see Boris winning around teatime/pubtime tonight. Then the parties at Labours demise can really kick off. At the moment they're 3 behind the Lib Dems in percentage of the vote! That's worse than the Conservatives in Scotland, who at least poll more than the wee liberals

[doctor jambo]

Delighted to see a resurgence in the Tory vote

Its about time too

As solidly middle class its about time we stopped taking the shafting we have been getting and stand up for ourselves at the ballot box and stop being guilt tripped by the left for our ex-affluence (I think we're all too broke to still be really affluent)

[Coco]

keep it up. I'm excited to see Boris winning around teatime/pubtime tonight. Then the parties at Labours demise can really kick off. At the moment they're 3 behind the Lib Dems in percentage of the vote! That's worse than the Conservatives in Scotland, who at least poll more than the wee liberals

 

It is mostly Labour and Gordon Brown in particular losing rather than the Conservatives winning.

 

Looking locally, what I can't understand is why the Conservatives in Edinburgh have missed their opportunity to oppose the disastrous policies in Edinburgh in the last 15 years. They missed an open goal last year on the tram line, Labour's congestion creation measures, ever higher Council spending and waste etc. It is absolutely bizarre that they have not learned any lessons from the road toll tax referendum in particular.

[Boris]

What I can't understand is the fickleness of the electorate.

 

Ok, they are disaffected with New Labour but to switch immediately over to the Conservatives? That seems such a paradigm shift, but I suppose on reflection it isn't really as New Labour is effectively a "wet" Tory party.

 

I don't think that this switch to the Tories is like it was in 1997 when New Labour seemed to offer some sort of ideological difference. Now it seems that that people are voting Tory not because of what the Tories have to offer, but simply because they aren't New Labour.

 

Boris Johnson as Mayor of London would be a complete joke. Style, if I can put it that way, over substance.

 

Still, New Labour only have themselves to blame and the architect of their own downfall isn't Broon, but that Chesire Cat grinning faced lizard Blair.

 

Incidently, it shows how much this means to the Tories as this was their best ever election results since John Major won the 1992 General Election. It's all a bit like Hibernian if you ask me...

[Boris]

Delighted to see a resurgence in the Tory vote

Its about time too

As solidly middle class its about time we stopped taking the shafting we have been getting and stand up for ourselves at the ballot box and stop being guilt tripped by the left for our ex-affluence (I think we're all too broke to still be really affluent)

 

...but the left aren't in power.

[maroonlegions]

Delighted to see a resurgence in the Tory vote

Its about time too

As solidly middle class its about time we stopped taking the shafting we have been getting and stand up for ourselves at the ballot box and stop being guilt tripped by the left for our ex-affluence (I think we're all too broke to still be really affluent)

 

aye try telling that to the millions on the bread line , thats whats wrong with this country , middle class, working class is out dated belongs in the past with children going up chimneys to clean them , who really cares what class one is we are all the same when you strip away the well off and those in poverty tags.

[Coco]

The Conservatives don't offer a choice other than a 'not Brown' choice thus far. People are beginning to wake up to the idea that Brown's attempt to create a natural majority by increasing the size of the State and attempting to keep as many people as possible on benefits is too expensive.

 

When they eventually come to their senses and reveal that there will have to be an absolutely brutal reduction in the size of the State in the UK it will not be a popular message. But it would be the right one.

[Stewart MacD]

Millions on the bread line? Pity the new apartment blocks don't have chimneys so the poor could send their kids up them. Shame the mines have closed: can't put the skinny starved boys down them any more.

 

Councils are the (corrupt) diddy cup. Hopefully Labour will have a clearout at Westminging and put some yoof in. They should remember they are part of the Socialist International, minus supporting dead industries, nat?rlich.

 

Braying Nigels and Samanthas please stay home.

 

Oh, and stick middle-class welfare (entrenched here) up whichever orifice you prefer.

[Coco]

...but the left aren't in power.

 

We have been living through one of the worst ever Governments of the UK.

 

Enormous increases in taxation and the size of the State, public finances in a terrible mess, massive reductions in civil liberties, endless overseas aggressions and illegal wars (yet failing to equip the soldiers properly), disastrous and short sighted meddling with the Constitution, 'prudent' Chancellor stoking up consumer, Government and mortgage debt as well as the off balance sheet debt, social engineering, losing control of policy to Europe ...

[Toggie88]

What I can't understand is the fickleness of the electorate.

 

Ok, they are disaffected with New Labour but to switch immediately over to the Conservatives? That seems such a paradigm shift, but I suppose on reflection it isn't really as New Labour is effectively a "wet" Tory party.

 

I don't think that this switch to the Tories is like it was in 1997 when New Labour seemed to offer some sort of ideological difference. Now it seems that that people are voting Tory not because of what the Tories have to offer, but simply because they aren't New Labour.

 

Boris Johnson as Mayor of London would be a complete joke. Style, if I can put it that way, over substance.

 

Still, New Labour only have themselves to blame and the architect of their own downfall isn't Broon, but that Chesire Cat grinning faced lizard Blair.

 

Incidently, it shows how much this means to the Tories as this was their best ever election results since John Major won the 1992 General Election. It's all a bit like Hibernian if you ask me...

 

The main problem down South is the choice is straight up Labour or Conservative. They don't have a party who offer something different, something to the left like we have in Scotland.

[Toggie88]

FECK THE TORIES MAGGIE SHAFTED SCOTLAND AND CAMERON WILL DO THE SAME HARDLY ANY ****** VOTES TORY NORTH OF THE BORDER THE QUICKER WE GET INDEPENDENCE THE BETTER VOTE SNP

 

 

Exactly.

 

But remember, Tories votes down South = Support for Independence, up here.

[djf]

What I can't understand is the fickleness of the electorate.

 

Ok, they are disaffected with New Labour but to switch immediately over to the Conservatives? That seems such a paradigm shift, but I suppose on reflection it isn't really as New Labour is effectively a "wet" Tory party.

 

I don't think that this switch to the Tories is like it was in 1997 when New Labour seemed to offer some sort of ideological difference. Now it seems that that people are voting Tory not because of what the Tories have to offer, but simply because they aren't New Labour.

 

Boris Johnson as Mayor of London would be a complete joke. Style, if I can put it that way, over substance.

 

Still, New Labour only have themselves to blame and the architect of their own downfall isn't Broon, but that Chesire Cat grinning faced lizard Blair.

 

Incidently, it shows how much this means to the Tories as this was their best ever election results since John Major won the 1992 General Election. It's all a bit like Hibernian if you ask me...

 

I don't think you can entirely blame Tony Blair. When Brown took the reins Labour still would have won an election if Brown had the balls to call one. It just seems everything he has done since then has went completely arse over tit.

 

You're quite right though that Tories are probably going to take power without actually doing anything. David Cameron is the man who was swanning round in Africa when his constituents were under water and he most likely will be our next PM. Perhaps shows how lame our political scene is.

[Coco]

I don't think you can entirely blame Tony Blair. When Brown took the reins Labour still would have won an election if Brown had the balls to call one. It just seems everything he has done since then has went completely arse over tit.

 

You're quite right though that Tories are probably going to take power without actually doing anything. David Cameron is the man who was swanning round in Africa when his constituents were under water and he most likely will be our next PM. Perhaps shows how lame our political scene is.

 

What good did Brown being photographed in a pair of wellies do to anyone who was suffering from the floods? As much good as Cameron being photographed where he thought the good causes were. Tabloid politics.

 

Brown is suffering today not because of any decisions taken since last summer but due to his disastrous Chancellorship and his role in the worst British Government in modern history.

[djf]

What good did Brown being photographed in a pair of wellies do to anyone who was suffering from the floods? As much good as Cameron being photographed where he thought the good causes were. Tabloid politics.

 

Tabloid politics wins votes. It was a huge PR gaffe and one Labour barely even began to point score on.

 

 

Brown is suffering today not because of any decisions taken since last summer but due to his disastrous Chancellorship and his role in the worst British Government in modern history.

 

Disagree.

 

I think the reason the results are so damning is a combination of growing Anti-Scottish feeling in England, the 10p tax band gaffe and the full effects of the "credit crunch" coming to light.

 

I still think Brown would have ensured another term for Labour if he had called an election last year when he threatened to do so.

[Toggie88]

You're quite right though that Tories are probably going to take power without actually doing anything. David Cameron is the man who was swanning round in Africa when his constituents were under water and he most likely will be our next PM. Perhaps shows how lame our political scene is.

 

 

I think the most likely scenario is a hung parliament, with the Lib Dems and the SNP holding the balance of power.

[Eggo]

Anyone who rejoices a tory victory must be either English or foolish.

Being Scottish myself,id sooner put pins in my eyes than vote tory or cheer a win.

Those barstewards tried to shut Scotland down,but thankfully failed.

I had a good friend commit suicide after the miners strike because he couldnt cope,due to the Thatcher dictatorship.

Roll on the day that old cow pops her clogs...now that will certainly be a party in my house!

[Eggo]

Delighted to see a resurgence in the Tory vote

Its about time too

As solidly middle class its about time we stopped taking the shafting we have been getting and stand up for ourselves at the ballot box and stop being guilt tripped by the left for our ex-affluence (I think we're all too broke to still be really affluent)

 

 

Shame on you:evilno:

[Coco]

 

I think the reason the results are so damning is a combination of growing Anti-Scottish feeling in England, the 10p tax band gaffe and the full effects of the "credit crunch" coming to light.

 

I still think Brown would have ensured another term for Labour if he had called an election last year when he threatened to do so.

 

Putting aside the anti Scottish issue, who do you think is responsible for the enormous increase in Government taxation, in local Government taxation (anyone else just noticed a 25% increase in parking charges in Edinburgh) etc in the last 11 years?

 

As for the credit crunch. Blame should be equally shared between Brown and the public who have built their empires and consumption on debt. The bills are just being paid.

[coppercrutch]

Anyone who rejoices a tory victory must be either English or foolish.Being Scottish myself,id sooner put pins in my eyes than vote tory or cheer a win.

Those barstewards tried to shut Scotland down,but thankfully failed.

I had a good friend commit suicide after the miners strike because he couldnt cope,due to the Thatcher dictatorship.

Roll on the day that old cow pops her clogs...now that will certainly be a party in my house!

 

I vote Tory. I am Scottish and British.

 

I think they are the best of a bad bunch. The 3 main parties are all pretty close these days. However at a high level the principles (If you can use that word when discussing politics) of the Conservatives agree with me the most.

 

Rewarding and not punishing success. Not giving money to people for doing nothing.

 

In reality they are probably not far different that the others. However Labour have made a mess of this country. The Lib Dems have little experience in thee matters, but could come through in the future as a real contender.

 

While it is of course sad that your mate died, to put that blame solely on Thatcher is naive. Many people were 'devastated' by what Thatcher did. Many have gone on to better lives because of it. Different people cope in different ways. I am sure many people will do similar due to the mess that Blair and Brown have left this country in. However even I would not solely rest that blame at their feet.

[Boris]

Putting aside the anti Scottish issue, who do you think is responsible for the enormous increase in Government taxation, in local Government taxation (anyone else just noticed a 25% increase in parking charges in Edinburgh) etc in the last 11 years?

 

As for the credit crunch. Blame should be equally shared between Brown and the public who have built their empires and consumption on debt. The bills are just being paid.

 

Yeah capitalism!

 

Surely the Banks have to take some responsibility for being so fast and loose with credit in the first place too?

[Coco]

Yeah capitalism!

 

Surely the Banks have to take some responsibility for being so fast and loose with credit in the first place too?

 

Bank share and debtholders should have been punished for the way that they have created ludicrous amounts of credit.

 

Unfortunately, Brown signalled last autumn with his nationalisation of Northern Rock, that he was trying to nationalise the UK housing market in an effort to prevent house prices going down. Falling house prices mean Gordon Brown will leave office.

[Boris]

Bank share and debtholders should have been punished for the way that they have created ludicrous amounts of credit.

 

Unfortunately, Brown signalled last autumn with his nationalisation of Northern Rock, that he was trying to nationalise the UK housing market in an effort to prevent house prices going down. Falling house prices mean Gordon Brown will leave office.

 

Don't disagree with that at all.

 

Brown may well be making a pig's ear of it but what he is doing is to effectively "out-tory" the Tories.

 

Prevent house prices falling and middle England will love you forever.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Broon has hoist himself by his own petard ever since he took office. He laid on the spin that he was going to call an election to tease the Tories into revealing policies, then panicked when he realised that they had hit a popular vein. Ever since then, he's been making it up as he goes along and the public won't stand for it.

[coppercrutch]

Don't disagree with that at all.

 

Brown may well be making a pig's ear of it but what he is doing is to effectively "out-tory" the Tories.

 

Prevent house prices falling and middle England will love you forever.

 

Only problem is this is an impossible task !! I think the Government know the game is up but have to be SEEN to be doing SOMETHING about it.

 

If they just came out and said "Well they have gone too high, people have been loaned to much, we should have seen it coming, we were stupid, the **** is about to hit the fan and there is nothing we can do about, in the long term it will be good for this country".

 

If he said that, and he would have to take a very deep breath to get it all out ! People would not be happy. I would actually respect the honesty of it. I imagine however most people in this country would not.

 

The game is up. Labour is out. Brown is out. Economy goosed. House prices falling. End of story.

 

What next..........

[Boris]

Only problem is this is an impossible task !! I think the Government know the game is up but have to be SEEN to be doing SOMETHING about it.

 

Agreed!

 

If they just came out and said "Well they have gone too high, people have been loaned to much, we should have seen it coming, we were stupid, the **** is about to hit the fan and there is nothing we can do about, in the long term it will be good for this country".

 

What can the Govt do if the banks are running riot?

 

If he said that, and he would have to take a very deep breath to get it all out ! People would not be happy. I would actually respect the honesty of it. I imagine however most people in this country would not.

 

The game is up. Labour is out. Brown is out. Economy goosed. House prices falling. End of story.

 

What next..........

 

That is the big question. I just don't think George Osborne or David "Dave" Cameron are up to the task and New Labour are a shambles. Nick Clegg? Aye, whatever...

 

as an aside re house prices. I'm not sure there will be a mass devaluation, more a steadying.

[billco98]

What I can't understand is the fickleness of the electorate.

 

Ok, they are disaffected with New Labour but to switch immediately over to the Conservatives? That seems such a paradigm shift, but I suppose on reflection it isn't really as New Labour is effectively a "wet" Tory party.

 

I don't think that this switch to the Tories is like it was in 1997 when New Labour seemed to offer some sort of ideological difference. Now it seems that that people are voting Tory not because of what the Tories have to offer, but simply because they aren't New Labour.

 

Boris Johnson as Mayor of London would be a complete joke. Style, if I can put it that way, over substance.

 

Still, New Labour only have themselves to blame and the architect of their own downfall isn't Broon, but that Chesire Cat grinning faced lizard Blair.

 

Incidently, it shows how much this means to the Tories as this was their best ever election results since John Major won the 1992 General Election. It's all a bit like Hibernian if you ask me...

 

I could not agree more.

 

The way I see it the Tories under funded and neglected the strategic infrastructure and services of this country (UK) for close on 20 years.

 

Schools were falling apart and standards had gone down the tubes. Teachers were under-valued and therefore underpaid resulting in the employment of dross.

 

Hospitals were falling apart and nurses and doctors undervalued and underpaid. Wards and hospitals including many mental hospitals were shut and the land sold and the capital squandered.

 

The railways were allowed to fall into utter disrepair with minimal investment whilst our European neighbours were continually upgrading and developing there infrastructure. The Tory Privatisation was a complete disaster to the extent that we had trains literally falling of the tracks resulting in many deaths and injuries.

 

Unemployment was used as a control valve on the economy resulting in millions of people being thrown on the scrap heap – ‘a price worth paying’ said wee Norman Lamont.

 

Interest rates were in double digits as was inflation culminating in the total disaster of Black Wednesday when wee Norman Lamont was running around Whitehall like a headless chicken with a red hot chilly pepper up his jacksy.

 

The construction industry suffered its worst recession since WWII with the consequence that no apprentices were taken on and large numbers of experienced management staff were made redundant.

 

The seeds of our social problems were sown, propagated and nurtured under successive Tory governments in the 80’s & 90’s. The drug problem was allowed to get out of control in the Eighties. Thatcher’s (grocer’s daughter's) economic policy saw to it that customs and excise offices around our coast were subjected to drastic cuts which was as good as saying bring you drugs in, nobodies looking. With most crime today drug related and costing the country billions, and with our prisons at bursting point - well done Maggie (stupid cow).

 

We once had a society which had some mutual respect and community spirit. Thanks to Maggie’s ‘there is no such thing as society’, look what we have now. Everyone looking after No.1 and **** the rest.

 

All this was going on when this country was oil rich. There is nothing concrete to show for this. (Look at Norway - they have invested wisely in infrastructure projects and for the care of their elderly, etc. They have put surplus oil finds into an investment fund for the future.)

 

When (New) Labour came to power they had as usual to pick up the pieces and reinvest in schools, NHS, railways, etc, etc. Yes, there is a price to pay in higher taxes and borrowing. But what is the alternative. The Tory way? Just ignore the problems and sweep them under the carpet and wait until the trains fall off the track again. The longer you wait before dealing with these problems the more expensive they become. We have all got to understand that public investment and maintenance of strategic infrastructure is not a choice but an absolute necessity.

 

Gordon Brown's problem is having to keep an eye of middle England. His heart tells him he must help to improve the lot of the lowest paid and the poor generally but in order to do that he has to keep Essex man happy. That was his undoing with the 10P tax – he took his eye off the important ball.

 

The fact is that south of the Lincoln/Bristol line the populous are never going to be social democrats. They voted New Labour in 1997 because even they couldn't stomach another 4-5 years of the Tories. They have done very well under Gordon Brown for the past 10-11 years but now that they are suffering because of the rising cost of living and the credit crunch, most of which are due to factors outwith Brown’s control, they are ready to ditch him.

 

If Boris becomes Mayor of London, as looks likely, then Gawd help London.

Ken Livingstone might not be everyone's cup of tea but so far he has wrestled with many of London's fundamental problems and has taken the tough decisions that matter in the long term.

 

Gordon Brown has a forward strategy for the country which involves short term pain for long term gain. He realises that if this country is to succeed in the ‘New World Order’ we have got to add much more value to what we produce. In order to do this we have got to vastly improve the standard of education and training at all levels in our society. Failure to grasp the nettle of this will leave us very much in the second division of world economies. If as looks likely he is not allowed to see it through then we, and our children, are in for a very hard time in the years ahead.

 

David 'Flashman' Cameron’s promises will all be for short term expediency and as a result he would be an unmitigated disaster for this country.

 

If England vote for a return to Tory ‘blind alley’ policies, then the Scottish Nationalists will be the beneficiaries. Scottish Independence may well be the result. In that case England would be subjected to Conservative government in perpetuity. I for one would not shed a tear at the prospect.

[coppercrutch]

Agreed!

 

 

 

What can the Govt do if the banks are running riot?

 

 

 

That is the big question. I just don't think George Osborne or David "Dave" Cameron are up to the task and New Labour are a shambles. Nick Clegg? Aye, whatever...

 

as an aside re house prices. I'm not sure there will be a mass devaluation, more a steadying.

 

We seem to agree for once comrade !!

 

As for house prices don't get me started on that one. If you class a 'steadying ship' as the Titanic I would agree with you.

[coppercrutch]

I could not agree more.

 

The way I see it the Tories under funded and neglected the strategic infrastructure and services of this country (UK) for close on 20 years.

 

Schools were falling apart and standards had gone down the tubes. Teachers were under-valued and therefore underpaid resulting in the employment of dross.

 

Hospitals were falling apart and nurses and doctors undervalued and underpaid. Wards and hospitals including many mental hospitals were shut and the land sold and the capital squandered.

 

The railways were allowed to fall into utter disrepair with minimal investment whilst our European neighbours were continually upgrading and developing there infrastructure. The Tory Privatisation was a complete disaster to the extent that we had trains literally falling of the tracks resulting in many deaths and injuries.

 

Unemployment was used as a control valve on the economy resulting in millions of people being thrown on the scrap heap ? ?a price worth paying? said wee Norman Lamont.

 

Interest rates were in double digits as was inflation culminating in the total disaster of Black Wednesday when wee Norman Lamont was running around Whitehall like a headless chicken with a red hot chilly pepper up his jacksy.

 

The construction industry suffered its worst recession since WWII with the consequence that no apprentices were taken on and large numbers of experienced management staff were made redundant.

 

The seeds of our social problems were sown, propagated and nurtured under successive Tory governments in the 80?s & 90?s. The drug problem was allowed to get out of control in the Eighties. Thatcher?s (grocer?s daughter's) economic policy saw to it that customs and excise offices around our coast were subjected to drastic cuts which was as good as saying bring you drugs in, nobodies looking. With most crime today drug related and costing the country billions, and with our prisons at bursting point - well done Maggie (stupid cow).

 

We once had a society which had some mutual respect and community spirit. Thanks to Maggie?s ?there is no such thing as society?, look what we have now. Everyone looking after No.1 and ****** the rest.

 

All this was going on when this country was oil rich. There is nothing concrete to show for this. (Look at Norway - they have invested wisely in infrastructure projects and for the care of their elderly, etc. They have put surplus oil finds into an investment fund for the future.)

 

When (New) Labour came to power they had as usual to pick up the pieces and reinvest in schools, NHS, railways, etc, etc. Yes, there is a price to pay in higher taxes and borrowing. But what is the alternative. The Tory way? Just ignore the problems and sweep them under the carpet and weight until the trains fall of the track again. The longer you wait before dealing with these problems the more expensive they become. We have all got to understand that public investment and maintenance of strategic infrastructure is not a choice but an absolute necessity.

 

Gordon Brown's problem is having to keep an eye of middle England. His heart tells him he must help to improve the lot of the lowest paid and the poor generally but in order to do that he has to keep Essex man happy. That was his undoing with the 10P tax ? he took his eye of the important ball.

 

The fact is that south of the Lincoln/Bristol line the populous are never going to be social delmocrats. They voted New Labour in 1997 because even they couldn't stomach another 4-5 years of the Tories. They have done very well under Gordon Brown for the past 10-11 years but now that they are suffering because of the rising cost of living and the credit crunch, most of which are due to factors outwith Brown?s control, they are ready to ditch him.

 

If Boris becomes Mayor of London, as looks likely, then Gawd help London.

Ken Livingstone might not be everyone's cup of tea but so far he has wrestled with many of London's fundamental problems and has taken the tough decisions that matter in the long term.

 

Gordon Brown has a forward strategy for the country which involves short term pain for long term gain. He realises that if this country is to succeed in the ?New World Order? we have got to add much more value to what we produce. In order to do this we have got to vastly improve the standard of education and training at all levels in our society. Failure to grasp the nettle of this will leave us very much in the second division of world economies. If as looks likely he is not allowed to see it through then we, and our children, are in for a very hard time in the years ahead.

 

David 'Flashman' Cameron?s promises will all be for short term expediency and as a result he would be an unmitigated disaster for this country.

 

If England vote for a return to Tory ?blind alley? policies, then the the Scottish Nationalists will be the beneficiaries. Scottish Independence may well be the result. In that case England would be subjected to Conservative government in perpetuity. I for one would not shed a tear at the prospect.

 

Are you kidding ? Brown has done more damage to this country than most other leaders put together. He has got us into a huge mess simply by PRETENDING to everyone that things are great. It is all one great big lie. Those brand new spanking hospitals and schools are the perfect example. Most are built on PFI. In other words they have not been paid for yet, and the cost is kept of the balance sheet. We will be paying for his mess for the next 10 years at least.

 

I agree I am not sure that the Tories wil do much better. But they cannot do any worse. You have to remember they left the country in a pretty decent state in 1997. Most people looking back now can see that. Yes a lot of things were in a mess, but after 10 years things are barely any better.

 

Borrowed money. Borrowed Time. Gordon Brown.

[billco98]

 

I agree I am not sure that the Tories wil do much better. But they cannot do any worse. You have to remember they left the country in a pretty decent state in 1997. Most people looking back now can see that. Yes a lot of things were in a mess, but after 10 years things are barely any better.

 

Borrowed money. Borrowed Time. Gordon Brown.

 

You jest, don't you? 3 million unemployed, schools, hospitals and railways falling to bits, massive waiting lists for operations, zero apprenticeships, house repossessions and negative equity.

 

I am not a fan of PFI's or PPP's but they had to employ them to make quick and substantial inroads into the back-log of neglect and under-investment in schools and hospitals.

 

The problem is they have only scratched at the surface of what needs to be done. Tories will never see sustained investment in public stategic infrastructure and services as being important. The country will suffer as a consequence.

 

Many of our fellow citizens look jealously at what they have in Germany, Netherlands, France and even Spain. The same people complain about our hospistals etc but at the same time baulk at the amount of tax we pay. Well, taxes in Germany, Netherlands, France and Spain are much higher but they see the benefits.

[Boris]

Billco98 - spot on.

 

The way I see it the Tories under funded and neglected the strategic infrastructure and services of this country (UK) for close on 20 years.

 

In a nutshell.

 

Boris

[coppercrutch]

You jest, don't you? 3 million unemployed, schools, hospitals and railways falling to bits, massive waiting lists for operations, zero apprenticeships, house repossessions and negative equity.

 

I am not a fan of PFI's or PPP's but they had to employ them to make quick and substantial inroads into the back-log of neglect and under-investment in schools and hospitals.

 

The problem is they have only scratched at the surface of what needs to be done. Tories will never see sustained investment in public stategic infrastructure and services as being important. The country will suffer as a consequence.

 

Many of our fellow citizens look jealously at what they have in Germany, Netherlands, France and even Spain. The same people complain about our hospistals etc but at the same time baulk at the amount of tax we pay. Well, taxes in Germany, Netherlands, France and Spain are much higher but they see the benefits.

 

You sure about that ? Maybe 'official taxes'. If you count everything we have to pay in this country we must be one of the highest taxed nations in the World.

 

And yes the Tories messed a lot up. But Labour have had 10 years and things are not much better. Not really progress in my eyes.

[Boris]

You sure about that ? Maybe 'official taxes'. If you count everything we have to pay in this country we must be one of the highest taxed nations in the World.

 

And yes the Tories messed a lot up. But Labour have had 10 years and things are not much better. Not really progress in my eyes.

 

You are correct when you say things aren't much better - a result of New Labour stealing the Tories ideas and economic values. I still feel public services are in slightly better hands though.

 

But this is the crux to it all - since Thatcher tax has become a taboo subject in this nation, or so we keep being told. No one is going to raise income tax becaause that is electoral suicide apparently, or so the press tells us.

 

So why did New Labour win? Because the public were fed up of the Tories and they way they were dismantling key public services through underfunding.

 

So here's the deal. You want good public services? Well we've got to raise income tax to pay for it. Raise the top bracket and all those little stealth taxes can be binned (nb - stealth taxes were a Tory trick btw so they could focus on income tax cuts!)

 

And there is quandry - higher income tax and better public services or lower income tax and a hotchpotch.

 

I know what I would like, but I guess I am politically "unfashionable"...

[Coco]

You are correct when you say things aren't much better - a result of New Labour stealing the Tories ideas and economic values. I still feel public services are in slightly better hands though.

 

But this is the crux to it all - since Thatcher tax has become a taboo subject in this nation, or so we keep being told. No one is going to raise income tax becaause that is electoral suicide apparently, or so the press tells us.

 

So why did New Labour win? Because the public were fed up of the Tories and they way they were dismantling key public services through underfunding.

 

So here's the deal. You want good public services? Well we've got to raise income tax to pay for it. Raise the top bracket and all those little stealth taxes can be binned (nb - stealth taxes were a Tory trick btw so they could focus on income tax cuts!)

 

And there is quandry - higher income tax and better public services or lower income tax and a hotchpotch.

 

I know what I would like, but I guess I am politically "unfashionable"...

 

There was never a reduction in spending on education or the NHS under the Thatcher Government.

 

From here, I would like to see a reduction in the number of areas the Government is involved in. A reduction in taxes. A reduction in waste whether it is called 'investment' or not. A reduction in social engineering. Fewer wars to satisfy Blair and Brown's lust for blood. A massive reduction in the size of the State, both Central, local governments and third sector/consultants.

 

And a mature discussion on the provision of public services. It is eminently possible that a different structure of provision would be more efficient and indeed provide better public services. Lower taxes and better public services. Unfortunately that mature debate appears to be impossible in the UK.

 

If spending more on public services is the only issue - how come after Brown has spent so much money - the public services are in dissaray now?

[billco98]

There was never a reduction in spending on education or the NHS under the Thatcher Government.

 

From here, I would like to see a reduction in the number of areas the Government is involved in. A reduction in taxes. A reduction in waste whether it is called 'investment' or not. A reduction in social engineering. Fewer wars to satisfy Blair and Brown's lust for blood. A massive reduction in the size of the State, both Central, local governments and third sector/consultants.

 

And a mature discussion on the provision of public services. It is eminently possible that a different structure of provision would be more efficient and indeed provide better public services. Lower taxes and better public services. Unfortunately that mature debate appears to be impossible in the UK.

 

If spending more on public services is the only issue - how come after Brown has spent so much money - the public services are in dissaray now?

 

With all due rsepect - that is utter tosh.

 

Look for example at the alternative method of cleaning our hospitals. Out-source the work to the lowest bidder and surprise surprise, hospitals become places of squalor harbouring super bugs (C-Difficile and MRSA) which have not only resulted in unnecessary deaths, but in turn have cost in financial terms millions of pounds more than the savings sought by the Tory smart Alecs who introduced the policy in the first place. Oh, and by the way, co-incidently (?), making a fortune for one Scottish Tory MP at the time who as it happens had, yes, you've guessed it - a Cleaning Company.

 

There is no viable short cut or panacea to good public services and infrastructure investment.

 

Private enterprise is all about maximising the profit margin and providing dividends to share holders. That's fine in the private sector.

 

Public sector spending should of course be monitored carefully for public accountability purposes and to ensure value for money.

 

I believe that it was a mistake to privatise the public utilities. We were told at the time that competiton would result in huge savings for the consumer. Wrong - huge profits for the share holders and rising bills for the consumer more like.

[Miller Jambo 60]

I hope the Tories give Labour a trouncing!*

 

The Labour Party is the one major party I have the least respect for.

 

They utterly disgusting.

 

 

*I'm still a radical left winger

 

Well said bud was a shop steward in the 80s and labour through and through.

Now listen to Brown with his false promises.

As for Cameron ,what a plank.

[Therapist]

And there is quandry - higher income tax and better public services or lower income tax and a hotchpotch.

 

Alternatively, lower taxes and slim down the bloated ineffective public sector, and let the electorate decide which private sector supplied services they wish to spend their money on.

 

It's the way forward.

[Miller Jambo 60]

Are you kidding ? Brown has done more damage to this country than most other leaders put together. He has got us into a huge mess simply by PRETENDING to everyone that things are great. It is all one great big lie. Those brand new spanking hospitals and schools are the perfect example. Most are built on PFI. In other words they have not been paid for yet, and the cost is kept of the balance sheet. We will be paying for his mess for the next 10 years at least.

 

I agree I am not sure that the Tories wil do much better. But they cannot do any worse. You have to remember they left the country in a pretty decent state in 1997. Most people looking back now can see that. Yes a lot of things were in a mess, but after 10 years things are barely any better.

 

Borrowed money. Borrowed Time. Gordon Brown.

 

What the tories ruined the NHS never recovered.

The miners ruined by old bat THATCHER.

Poll tax .

 

Need i go on. PS MY FLOUR MILL IN LEITH . SHUT

[Nucky Thompson]

Rather worringly, the BNP have picked up 5 councillor's.

They were obviously voted in:confused: You'll find it will be in Northern towns where normal British people are living in fear from gangs of ethnics:mad:

[Therapist]

They were obviously voted in:confused:

 

Exactly. One may not agree with their policies but they are a legitimate political party. They are even allowed to have party election broadcasts which shows how mainstream they have become.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Bring back Maggie, all is forgiven!

[billco98]

Alternatively, lower taxes and slim down the bloated ineffective public sector, and let the electorate decide which private sector supplied services they wish to spend their money on.

 

It's the way forward.

 

Aye right.

 

 

And why not remove parking restrictions, speed limits, smoking restrictions, scrap health and safety regulations, ban all trade unions, privatise the NHS, prisons, schools, etc. and bring back the work houses while we're at it. The Victorians had the right idea.