unknownuser Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 10 minutes ago, John Findlay said: I thought that is what Holyrood is for? Holyrood's for unionists to point at and blame for the ills we share with the rest of the UK. We don't have any say over the economy, Holyrood's not a government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 1 minute ago, unknownuser said: What economic benefits do you think staying with the sinking ship that is the UK will bring? Are we in a better economic position now than when we were told Better Together? So you can't answer my question. Didn't expect you could. For the record every major European economy is currently in a poorer position than than it was in 2014. Taking into account my points let's hear you explain how Scotland will be better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknownuser Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 1 minute ago, Gerry1874 said: So you can't answer my question. Didn't expect you could. For the record every major European economy is currently in a poorer position than than it was in 2014. Taking into account my points let's hear you explain how Scotland will be better off. Better off than where we'll be under Westminster? Who can say how much further we'll sink? Do you think the next far right government will care about Scotland? Still, you're alright 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 3 minutes ago, unknownuser said: Better off than where we'll be under Westminster? Who can say how much further we'll sink? Do you think the next far right government will care about Scotland? Still, you're alright 👍 Any chance you can answer my original question? What economic benefits do you think parting with our largest trading partner, switching to a new currency and implementing a border system between Scotland and the UK will bring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 15 minutes ago, unknownuser said: Holyrood's for unionists to point at and blame for the ills we share with the rest of the UK. We don't have any say over the economy, Holyrood's not a government. No say on the economy? Scotland have their own tax collecting powers - why do you think we in Scotland pay more Income Tax? The UK is the status quo. If SNP want to break that, it is up to them to show that Scotland would have a better economic future om its own - it has totally failed to even try to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknownuser Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 6 minutes ago, Gerry1874 said: Any chance you can answer my original question? What economic benefits do you think parting with our largest trading partner, switching to a new currency and implementing a border system between Scotland and the UK will bring? It was a question based on assumptions I don't agree with, so I asked a reciprocal question. What economic benefits do you think there are staying in this failing, increasingly right wing union? Is democracy for Scotland a worthwhile price to pay for them? How many countries have sought to rejoin the British empire after gaining independence, and why is the answer zero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 5 minutes ago, unknownuser said: It was a question based on assumptions I don't agree with, so I asked a reciprocal question. What economic benefits do you think there are staying in this failing, increasingly right wing union? Is democracy for Scotland a worthwhile price to pay for them? How many countries have sought to rejoin the British empire after gaining independence, and why is the answer zero? What assumptions did you not agree with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 5 minutes ago, unknownuser said: It was a question based on assumptions I don't agree with, so I asked a reciprocal question. What economic benefits do you think there are staying in this failing, increasingly right wing union? Is democracy for Scotland a worthwhile price to pay for them? How many countries have sought to rejoin the British empire after gaining independence, and why is the answer zero? The economic benefits for Scotland in the UK is clear to see. Public spending is greater here than other parts of the the UK. We have greater democracy in Scotland, as do the other devolved areas than those who have no devolved power. There is no British Empire, and Scotland isn't relevant to any former colony who gained independence as the former British empire ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 33 minutes ago, unknownuser said: Holyrood's for unionists to point at and blame for the ills we share with the rest of the UK. We don't have any say over the economy, Holyrood's not a government. So you won't be voting in the Scottish election of 2026? You don't vote in UK General elections I assume as you would just be voting for an English government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 37 minutes ago, unknownuser said: What economic benefits do you think staying with the sinking ship that is the UK will bring? Are we in a better economic position now than when we were told Better Together? Answers on a postage stamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 37 minutes ago, unknownuser said: Holyrood's for unionists to point at and blame for the ills we share with the rest of the UK. We don't have any say over the economy, Holyrood's not a government. So the SNP are a unionist party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 Interesting result from the norstat poll if we dump the royal family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 1 hour ago, John Findlay said: So the SNP are a unionist party? Yes they are a party of devolution now and devolution means union Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 1 hour ago, XB52 said: Interesting result from the norstat poll if we dump the royal family Yes, interesting. Will SNP grab this advantage and be the first party to state they would hold a public vote once Indy is achieved? I doubt it. Swinney doesn't have the balls. I can see Flynn doing that - if he ever becomes FM (unlikely). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 2 hours ago, XB52 said: Interesting result from the norstat poll if we dump the royal family Voting slip for the next Indyref, if London ever feels brave enough to grant it should simply read: Should Scotland fund a family of nonces? Yes/ no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 2 hours ago, XB52 said: Interesting result from the norstat poll if we dump the royal family Believeinscotland.org. sounds legit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted December 19, 2024 Share Posted December 19, 2024 35 minutes ago, Gundermann said: Voting slip for the next Indyref, if London ever feels brave enough to grant it should simply read: Should Scotland fund a family of nonces? Yes/ no. You are totally correct with the wording of the question. There would be no point in asking the majority of Indy voters if they wanted a Republic- they would not have a clue what one was. Probably think it is a brand of vodka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 It’s happening folks !!! Woo hoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 Oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Oops Careful they will round the wagons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 18 minutes ago, Gerry1874 said: Careful they will round the wagons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnybob72 Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 23 minutes ago, Gerry1874 said: Careful they will round the wagons. And the campervan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: It’s happening folks !!! Woo hoo Can somebody explain what the "wellbeing approach is"? Does it, by any chance, involve a slight detour from reality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 12 minutes ago, lost in space said: Can somebody explain what the "wellbeing approach is"? Does it, by any chance, involve a slight detour from reality? “ word salad “ nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 25 minutes ago, lost in space said: Can somebody explain what the "wellbeing approach is"? Does it, by any chance, involve a slight detour from reality? Basically means more free stuff for layabouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: Basically means more free stuff for layabouts https://www.believeinscotland.org/wellbeing_economy_points_to_66_supermajority_for_scottish_independence Great . But where’s the money coming from ? Edited December 23, 2024 by JudyJudyJudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: https://www.believeinscotland.org/wellbeing_economy_points_to_66_supermajority_for_scottish_independence Great . But where’s the money coming from ? We all know how snp economics work Any increase here will be funded by means testing the pensions of more wealthy people (and by wealthy people , the middle class, however thats defined now) with them getting less than they have worked for in order to contribute to the pensions of bums and deadlegs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 Just now, Lord Montpelier said: We all know how snp economics work Any increase here will be funded by means testing the pensions of more wealthy people (and by wealthy people , the middle class, however thats defined now) with them getting less than they have worked for in order to contribute to the pensions of bums and deadlegs. “ trickle down theory “ ! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korky Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 54 minutes ago, lost in space said: Can somebody explain what the "wellbeing approach is"? Does it, by any chance, involve a slight detour from reality? Part of the ‘circular economy’? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 On 19/12/2024 at 14:19, pablo said: The economic benefits for Scotland in the UK is clear to see. Public spending is greater here than other parts of the the UK. But not all. London & N Ireland get more. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/country-and-regional-analysis-2024/country-and-regional-analysis-november-2024#:~:text=3b)%2C the lowest spend per,North East at £12%2C322. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 35 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: “ trickle down theory “ ! lol No, that's what neoliberals espouse. Make the rich even richer and eventually the money will trickle down to the less well off. A lot of people still waiting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 4 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: It’s happening folks !!! Woo hoo Thank God almighty we are free at last ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted December 23, 2024 Share Posted December 23, 2024 3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: https://www.believeinscotland.org/wellbeing_economy_points_to_66_supermajority_for_scottish_independence Great . But where’s the money coming from ? Viva the communist Republic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) The current factual position on polling These are the polls using the same question as in the referendum, which have been published since the general election In terms of explaining what's going on, my conjecture would be that the drift back to pro-independence is a combination of the fading in significance of the Sturgeon scandals with time, the impact of Labour scandals (freebies) and policies post election (winter fuel) and the natural demographic effect of older, more likely to be Unionist cohort dying off and younger people (more likely to be pro independence) reaching 18 Edited January 3 by scott herbertson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 hours ago, scott herbertson said: The current factual position on polling These are the polls using the same question as in the referendum, which have been published since the general election In terms of explaining what's going on, my conjecture would be that the drift back to pro-independence is a combination of the fading in significance of the Sturgeon scandals with time, the impact of Labour scandals (freebies) and policies post election (winter fuel) and the natural demographic effect of older, more likely to be Unionist cohort dying off and younger people (more likely to be pro independence) reaching 18 You appeared to have not included the information from the "National Newspaper". Are you suggesting it is not reliable??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, lost in space said: You appeared to have not included the information from the "National Newspaper". Are you suggesting it is not reliable??? The National has an pro-independence perspective and to avoid either pro or anti independence perspectives where questions can be used which encourage more YES or NO answers I have just posted those polls which strictly stick to the same question which was put in the 2014 referendum. That is as about objective as you can get, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknownuser Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, scott herbertson said: The National has an pro-independence perspective and to avoid either pro or anti independence perspectives where questions can be used which encourage more YES or NO answers I have just posted those polls which strictly stick to the same question which was put in the 2014 referendum. That is as about objective as you can get, IMHO. Isn't the National the very first line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 minutes ago, unknownuser said: Isn't the National the very first line? Yes, but the line is different from the graphic posted at the top of the page which asked a question more nuanced to get a higher YES vote. Same poll but the figures for Yes/ No in the one I cited are for the same question as in the referendum therefore a better guide to how public opinion is shifting, as you can make direct comparisons. That doesn't mean they are all totally correct of course, there are margins of error and also selection methods for those being asked. More in Common is pro-union for example, and the Survation polls regularly favour No - probably due to their sampling methodologies. Norstat is probably the most encouraging if you are pro-independence as the Sunday Times is not pro SNP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I'd love Independence IF, it made us more like Poland, rather than San Francisco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques de Gatineau Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, scott herbertson said: The current factual position on polling These are the polls using the same question as in the referendum, which have been published since the general election In terms of explaining what's going on, my conjecture would be that the drift back to pro-independence is a combination of the fading in significance of the Sturgeon scandals with time, the impact of Labour scandals (freebies) and policies post election (winter fuel) and the natural demographic effect of older, more likely to be Unionist cohort dying off and younger people (more likely to be pro independence) reaching 18 Of course, the chances of there being another referendum are probably as slim as ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknownuser Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, Cruyff said: I'd love Independence IF, it made us more like Poland, rather than San Francisco. I'd love independence if it meant Scotland had a say in who forms our national government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 18 minutes ago, unknownuser said: I'd love independence if it meant Scotland had a say in who forms our national government. Another year the same old tag line 🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 51 minutes ago, unknownuser said: I'd love independence if it meant Scotland had a say in who forms our national government. You ae surely not trying to say "we get what England vote for" are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques de Gatineau Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, lost in space said: You ae surely not trying to say "we get what England vote for" are you? We get just a few fewer than London which, given the relative populations and GDP, is probably about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, unknownuser said: I'd love independence if it meant Scotland had a say in who forms our national government. Would you prefer a model that looked more like Poland or San Francisco ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknownuser Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Gerry1874 said: Another year the same old tag line 🤣🤣 Well yeah, obviously unionists don't like it, it's the giant fly in their ointment. Scotland gets what England votes for - it's your uncomfortable truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 11 minutes ago, unknownuser said: Well yeah, obviously unionists don't like it, it's the giant fly in their ointment. Scotland gets what England votes for - it's your uncomfortable truth. Have you worked out the economic advantages of independence since I asked last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknownuser Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Gerry1874 said: Have you worked out the economic advantages of independence since I asked last year? And you the economic advantages of dependence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry1874 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 11 hours ago, unknownuser said: And you the economic advantages of dependence? I'm not the one advocating change. But it seems you still haven't thought of any. You want independence but you don't know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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