Malinga the Swinga Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Just watched Kenny McCaskill shouting about nuclear weapons and how we in Scotland this and we in Scotland that, and the thought of this clown getting any power would be enought oensure a vote against the Yes campaign. Take away Salmond and Sturgeon and the rest of the MSP's and MP's look like they belong in a circus or playground, never mind an establishment like parliament. If they are the dominant party for Scotland, then it shows the rest of them up as hopeless. How did Labour manage to take a dominant position for years and then throw it away against this lot, but then again, who exactly are the Labour party in Scotland and would anyone recognise any of them if they came in and sat next to you at Tynecastle. Fraid to say that they are headed for a resounding No if they don't pull their socks up and actually campaign properly and positively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo66 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Spectacular party political broadcast by the SNP with "Lets stick together" as the backing tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Never said we'd default. But the markets do not like destabilisation. Scotland deciding to keep tge poubd tgen dropping it a year later will destabilise them. I want to know exactly how the negotiations will be done. I want to know if it'll be cross party ir SNP led or whatever. These details are needed. But based on what we know i dont think what i've said is far off based on SNP press releases. "If the Greeks cant get out of the Euro without causing panic in the markets the idea of leaving the pound-zone for the Scots Dollar (say) would cause an equal amount of market panic. " I've underlined it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 "If the Greeks cant get out of the Euro without causing panic in the markets the idea of leaving the pound-zone for the Scots Dollar (say) would cause an equal amount of market panic. " I've underlined it for you. By that I dont mean we will go bust. By that I mean choosing our currency will be of vital.importance. Any decision subsequently of leaving the UK ? Stetling or the Euro will show a lack of confidence in that currency and have market reprecussion. As it stands should we go independent I'd rather we adopted our own currency. If independence is to mean full control i'd rather we had full control of our own monetry policy rather than leaving it to a foreign economic competitor. Same applies with my views as to the UK and the euro. It strikes me that the recent events in Europe show you cannot have a common currency without a degree of fiscal and political integration. It is therefore strange to me that the vanguard of the indepence campaign's argument is to say we want to adopt a model akin to the eurozone. And whats to say the Bank of England will have to account for Scotland's economy as it does now when setting rates? The US central bank doesnt have to take account of Zimbabwe when setting interest rates and devaluing the dollar even though they use it. It just seems vague and made up on the back of a fag packet. I mean Salmond said a few months ago there'd need to be fiscal pacts with London to ensure optimalization of the ? whilst the same week Sturgeon and Swinney argued the opposite. I might be inclined tp back independence if it was truly radical and dynamic. But with this economic model, the constitution and the NATO question why bother? It's designed to make Scotland a mini-UK outside the real UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Just watched Kenny McCaskill shouting about nuclear weapons and how we in Scotland this and we in Scotland that, and the thought of this clown getting any power would be enought oensure a vote against the Yes campaign. Take away Salmond and Sturgeon and the rest of the MSP's and MP's look like they belong in a circus or playground, never mind an establishment like parliament. If they are the dominant party for Scotland, then it shows the rest of them up as hopeless. How did Labour manage to take a dominant position for years and then throw it away against this lot, but then again, who exactly are the Labour party in Scotland and would anyone recognise any of them if they came in and sat next to you at Tynecastle. Fraid to say that they are headed for a resounding No if they don't pull their socks up and actually campaign properly and positively. Labour got too arrogant and had two bad campaigns in 2007 and 2011. For Labour 2016 could be good for them, if in 2014 the union wins the day, then it raises huge issues for the SNP and may help them. If the YES vote wins then they can kiss power away in Scotland for a decade at least. At Westminster they probably will end up in power at 2015 be it alone or in coalition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Vallance Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Just read Robbo's brothers poem in the Evening News regarding the referendum. No matter which side of the fence you're on its c*ap. He should spend more time writing prose about his brothers legenday feats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 "Nicola Sturgeon just announced in Parliament that the Scottish Government had NOT asked law officers for advice on Scotland's membership of the EU post-independence. Compare that with this video of the First Minister (watch from 10.40) where he claims that they had got advice. We now know why they spent thousands of pounds of our money taking this to court...Andrew Neil "Have you sought advice from your own Scottish law officers in this matter?" Salmond "We have yes" " I take no issue with those who want Independence - though I do not agree with it. It is a shame that the SNP are the vehicle for them - they are fast becoming the biggest liability for the prospect of Independence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 "Nicola Sturgeon just announced in Parliament that the Scottish Government had NOT asked law officers for advice on Scotland's membership of the EU post-independence. Compare that with this video of the First Minister (watch from 10.40) where he claims that they had got advice. We now know why they spent thousands of pounds of our money taking this to court...Andrew Neil "Have you sought advice from your own Scottish law officers in this matter?" Salmond "We have yes" " I take no issue with those who want Independence - though I do not agree with it. It is a shame that the SNP are the vehicle for them - they are fast becoming the biggest liability for the prospect of Independence I had not seen that interview before. Salmond clearly states that they had sought advice - and now as the BBC report below shows they say they have not. So it was outright lying. I hope that Salmond is targeted on this by the media. Unforgiveable lying by him. http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-government-admits-no-legal-advice-yet-taken-on-eu-membership-1-2594121 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Mans a serial liar ,just cant help telling porkies . No wonder hes spent thousands of our money going to court to prevent the release of information they are now saying they didnt get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited October 23, 2012 by systemx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Oh dear What an absolute farce that they dragged this out in court for so long. Simple question which required a simple answer What a waste of time and money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 The fans havent appeared here yet.must be waiting for the official line to spin.Was it just coincidence that two MSPs happened to resign from the SNP today,but will of course continue to vote with the government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 The fans havent appeared here yet.must be waiting for the official line to spin.Was it just coincidence that two MSPs happened to resign from the SNP today,but will of course continue to vote with the government? I would have thought so given it was over the NATO vote at the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Mans a serial liar ,just cant help telling porkies . No wonder hes spent thousands of our money going to court to prevent the release of information they are now saying they didnt get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He just can't help himself, yet again his ego has got in the way of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Mans a serial liar ,just cant help telling porkies . No wonder hes spent thousands of our money going to court to prevent the release of information they are now saying they didnt get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A politician telling porkies who would have thought that could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Given that one of them (Jean Urquhart) was elected as an SNP list MSP...should she resign and let an SNP member take her place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 A Yes vote in the referendum isn't a vote for the SNP. It isn't a vote about which political party will run the country. It's a vote on whether us Scots and folk who live in Scotland run our own country or whether we choose to be run by our larger neighbour and have their policies imposed on us. It is my opinion that the SNP have done what they have always said they would do. They have given us a referendum to make the choice ourselves. They will obviously try to influence the outcome towards us voting Yes because that is their belief. After the referendum and the result is that Scotland become independent then we will have the choice to vote for any political persuasion that we want. Should the SNP have to make the choices about Scotlands future after a referendum or should the people of Scotland make these choices? Just because I want an independent Scotland, it shouldn't mean that we lose our democratic right to change and choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 A Yes vote in the referendum isn't a vote for the SNP. It isn't a vote about which political party will run the country. It's a vote on whether us Scots and folk who live in Scotland run our own country or whether we choose to be run by our larger neighbour and have their policies imposed on us. It is my opinion that the SNP have done what they have always said they would do. They have given us a referendum to make the choice ourselves. They will obviously try to influence the outcome towards us voting Yes because that is their belief. After the referendum and the result is that Scotland become independent then we will have the choice to vote for any political persuasion that we want. Should the SNP have to make the choices about Scotlands future after a referendum or should the people of Scotland make these choices? Just because I want an independent Scotland, it shouldn't mean that we lose our democratic right to change and choice. There is a lot of truth in what you say. However, if people are to make an informed choice about which way to vote they need to be told the truth about certain things. Certain things we can control, being an automatic member of the EU we cannot control. Salmond has lied here. He has lied to try and make the 'nothing much will change' argument. Whatever your views on independence, this man is our FM and he has lied outright to us. He has then spent our money trying to hide the fact. This stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Given that one of them (Jean Urquhart) was elected as an SNP list MSP...should she resign and let an SNP member take her place? They should both resign. I would imagine a great deal of votes were for the party and not the person. The constituents should be allowed to decide whether they wish to retain SNP MSPs or others. Both could still stand as independents if wished. Smacks to me of spitting out the dummy, a debate was had, votes were cast and one side came out on top. Now they both resign from the party just because they didn't win? Principles my arse, they owed it to the people who voted them in and they let them down badly imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 A Yes vote in the referendum isn't a vote for the SNP. It isn't a vote about which political party will run the country. It's a vote on whether us Scots and folk who live in Scotland run our own country or whether we choose to be run by our larger neighbour and have their policies imposed on us. It is my opinion that the SNP have done what they have always said they would do. They have given us a referendum to make the choice ourselves. They will obviously try to influence the outcome towards us voting Yes because that is their belief. After the referendum and the result is that Scotland become independent then we will have the choice to vote for any political persuasion that we want. Should the SNP have to make the choices about Scotlands future after a referendum or should the people of Scotland make these choices? Just because I want an independent Scotland, it shouldn't mean that we lose our democratic right to change and choice. It would be helpful if someone would show me any statement from the SNP saying in the event of a YES vote there would be an election.Just asking ta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 It would be helpful if someone would show me any statement from the SNP saying in the event of a YES vote there would be an election.Just asking ta Not after a yes vote but after independence unless yo uthink the SNP plans are for a dictatorship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 There is a lot of truth in what you say. However, if people are to make an informed choice about which way to vote they need to be told the truth about certain things. Certain things we can control, being an automatic member of the EU we cannot control. Salmond has lied here. He has lied to try and make the 'nothing much will change' argument. Whatever your views on independence, this man is our FM and he has lied outright to us. He has then spent our money trying to hide the fact. This stinks. Give me a Westminster Prime Minister in the last 30 years who hasn't lied? Can you tell me why we chased Bin Laden all of these years? Don't say it was because he aided terrorism but answer me why he aided terrorism and what was his beef? In fact, can you tell me what the last thing good your government has done for you? As for having an informed choice? Who exactly has run this country for the past 300 years and what information have they given us to make an informed choice? Why bother about being part of the EU when it's clearly British Government policy to distance itself from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Not after a yes vote but after independence unless yo uthink the SNP plans are for a dictatorship. It's what I'm planning. I've already made a list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 It's what I'm planning. I've already made a list. Don't tell him your name Pike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 It would be helpful if someone would show me any statement from the SNP saying in the event of a YES vote there would be an election.Just asking ta What would you do if you didn't have the choice? Would you fight for it or would you just accept it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Watching Nichola on Newsnicht.She doesnt even believe the pish and doublespeak that is pouring from her own mouth,does she? BTW just noticed Eck was sweating like a rapist while giving his statement earlier. Edited October 23, 2012 by systemx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Watching Nichola on Newsnicht.She doesnt even believe the pish and doublespeak that is pouring from her own mouth,does she? BTW just noticed Eck was sweating like a rapist while giving his statement earlier. It was very 'Westminster' I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blairdin Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) It was very 'Westminster' I'm afraid. I think Eck might be in a spot of bother here... Edited October 23, 2012 by blairdin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Watching Nichola on Newsnicht.She doesnt even believe the pish and doublespeak that is pouring from her own mouth,does she? BTW just noticed Eck was sweating like a rapist while giving his statement earlier. This is the beginning of the end, spending public money - to prevent the publication of information which didn't exist, at best a a cover up of gross incompetence... As I've said many times, the man is full of shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 It was very 'Westminster' I'm afraid. 'Fair minded people' will surely understand black is white won't they? As for the tripe about the referendum process being required before legal advice could be taken on whether Scotland would remain a member of the EU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Watching Nichola on Newsnicht.She doesnt even believe the pish and doublespeak that is pouring from her own mouth,does she? BTW just noticed Eck was sweating like a rapist while giving his statement earlier. "sweating like a rapist." How differently do rapists sweat from other people? Has there been a study and I'd check the robustness of that study too. Shite comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nm55j/Newsnight_Scotland_23_10_2012/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) Give me a Westminster Prime Minister in the last 30 years who hasn't lied? Can you tell me why we chased Bin Laden all of these years? Don't say it was because he aided terrorism but answer me why he aided terrorism and what was his beef? In fact, can you tell me what the last thing good your government has done for you? As for having an informed choice? Who exactly has run this country for the past 300 years and what information have they given us to make an informed choice? Why bother about being part of the EU when it's clearly British Government policy to distance itself from this. Well, we went after bin laden as he was a very bad man and a bit random that you seem to sympathise with his 'beef' - I for one was delighted when he caught one between the eyes.. Aside from that, what I care about is the independence referendum as it will have a very tangible impact on my life and my family life - the facts need to be understood before such a fundamental change can be taken, the facts need to be presented as they are not as the NATS imagine them to be... The man is so desperate for independence its clear he will say and do anything, there is no prospect of an educated debate with alex at the helm - He should go... Edited October 24, 2012 by kingantti1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Well, we went after bin laden as he was a very bad man and a bit random that you seem to sympathise with his 'beef' - I for one was delighted when he caught one between the eyes.. Aside from that, what I care about is the independence referendum as it will have a very tangible impact on my life and my family life - the facts need to be understood before such a fundamental change can be taken, the facts need to be presented as they are not as the NATS imagine them to be... The man is so desperate for independence its clear he will say and do anything, there is no prospect of an educated debate with alex at the helm - He should go... Whereas our top Unionist politician is David Cameron and it's clear he will say and do anything. He should go.. There are facts that need presented but what facts are they? Are the facts that you need answers to simply things that should be voted on after the referendum (if the yes vote wins) so its more democratic? Are you unclear about the Scottish economy and how independence will benefit you financially? If so could you please inform me what the future UK economy will behold and how it will impact on me financially in say 6 years from now? You know, I don't think there is a politician out there than can give you these answers and like I have said, the referendum is not a political debate. So what turned Bin Laden into a bad man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) Whereas our top Unionist politician is David Cameron and it's clear he will say and do anything. He should go.. There are facts that need presented but what facts are they? Are the facts that you need answers to simply things that should be voted on after the referendum (if the yes vote wins) so its more democratic? Are you unclear about the Scottish economy and how independence will benefit you financially? If so could you please inform me what the future UK economy will behold and how it will impact on me financially in say 6 years from now? You know, I don't think there is a politician out there than can give you these answers and like I have said, the referendum is not a political debate. So what turned Bin Laden into a bad man? Well, whether we will remain part of the EU and retain sterling or be forced to apply for EU membership and thus fall into the eurozone?, will Scotland remain part of NATO ?(although it seems that pipe dream has evaporated as predicted an trident will remain on the Clyde ), what are our economic plans for the immediate years after independence - will we have an oil buffer for time to grow the economy - that one should be easy to answer yet ha never actually been answered.... There are some very very big ticket items which need to be answered before the referendum - if they are not presented we are being asked to vote for the unknown - in my circle of friends those sitting on the fence are definitely leaning towards a definitive NO and they got a good push yesterday in that direction.. In my opinion, take Alex Salmond out of the equation and this referendum would never have gotten off the ground, he is an undeniably charismatic politician able to relate to large swathes of the Scottish population who feel disillusioned mainly because of a world economic slump which an independent Scotland could never have avoided despite suggestions to the contrary - That's fair enough, he's played his hand well but it will only go so far before real questions are asked wich require answers .. This will be his undoing - we saw the start of it yesterday ... Ask yourself this honestly - without Salmond so you believe the referendum would stand even the slightest chance of success? I genuinely don't which tells its own story.. Lets leave the other stuff for another thread Edited October 24, 2012 by kingantti1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I actually agree with KingAntti, in as much as this will hopefully open up the referendum campaign and the questions that people want answers to are answered. Both sides now need to state their reasoning and their positions on a whole host of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Well, whether we will remain part of the EU and retain sterling or be forced to apply for EU membership and thus fall into the eurozone?, will Scotland remain part of NATO ?(although it seems that pipe dream has evaporated as predicted an trident will remain on the Clyde ), what are our economic plans for the immediate years after independence - will we have an oil buffer for time to grow the economy - that one should be easy to answer yet ha never actually been answered.... Most of these questions should be answered through the ballot paper rather than imposed on us. As a new country, we shouldn't just follow the old path but allow the population to make the choices. Should our economic plans immediately after the referendum change drastically? No it's a little bit at a time or we could fall flat on our face. There are some very very big ticket items which need to be answered before the referendum - if they are not presented we are being asked to vote for the unknown - in my circle of friends those sitting on the fence are definitely leaning towards a definitive NO and they got a good push yesterday in that direction.. People should make informed choices and their choice should reflect what they feel comfortable with. People in general don't like change and trying to convince people to change is quite difficult. There is more and more information becoming available and a little research brings results. Changing the constitution of the UK has never been something I was bothered about until I started reading about it. Far to many folk wait until folk give their slant on things and then make choices. Far too many folk are looking to politicians to make the choice for them and that includes both sides. I can't recall ever having great political leanings towards the SNP but I do believe Scotland will serve its people better by making important decisions that reflect on our needs within the country rather than having Westminster imposing it's decisions that reflect on the needs of the folk who live in its immediate vicinity. That is the biggest reason for me voting for independence. No real politics or big economic questions to be answered. In my opinion, take Alex Salmond out of the equation and this referendum would never have gotten off the ground, he is an undeniably charismatic politician able to relate to large swathes of the Scottish population who feel disillusioned mainly because of a world economic slump which an independent Scotland could never have avoided despite suggestions to the contrary - That's fair enough, he's played his hand well but it will only go so far before real questions are asked wich require answers .. This will be his undoing - we saw the start of it yesterday ... I don't understand how you come to this conclusion if the SNP gained power in 2007 and yet the economic downturn never really kicked in until 2008. Like I said previously, I don't grasp the real questions issue. Salmond was to turn into a complete lunatic, it wouldn't change my opinion regarding independence and I don't expect him to be in power for long after the referendum. Ask yourself this honestly - without Salmond so you believe the referendum would stand even the slightest chance of success? I genuinely don't which tells its own story.. I don't think the Yes vote will win the referendum but this doesn't cloud my opinion. Lets leave the other stuff for another thread The bin laden question was purely to explain how much information our politicians like us to have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 There is a bit of irony in this EU membership part of the independence debate. The unionists are currently arguing that we will have to apply for new member status, but if the yes vote is successful those same politicians will be arguing for Scotland to be accepted as a member under the current UK conditions as it would impact what is left of the UK more than the New Scotland if we were forced to accept Schengen for example. I think the "application" for membership will be irrelevant though, in the sense that other European countries have much more to lose, particularly Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Off topic but I have been told from a reliable source that when Salmond was at school he was called Greensleeves (I will leave you to work out why). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 To those claiming that the Yes campaign = only SNP supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 To those claiming that the Yes campaign = only SNP supporters. I do not think that there are many who think that. It is undeniably SNP dominated & led but I understand there are also Lib Dems for Indy and the odd Tory too. Patrick Harvie basically pulled out of it because the SNP dominance in terms of direction. As, I think, did Margo Macdonald. Its also got the Socialist Party & Tommy Sheridan there in the background too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 To those claiming that the Yes campaign = only SNP supporters. If Labour dont come up with a credible way forward for devolution, the McLeish's and Chisolm's might be inclined to quietly side with them. Regardless these folk are a minority, welcome one as it shows plurality in our parties, but unless a Labour big hitter of Holyrood's past comes along then i doubt they'll affect the party too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboInSouthsea Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) To those claiming that the Yes campaign = only SNP supporters. Exactly, independence is about self government and not about individual party politics...that would be decided afterwards if a YES vote came in to play by the usual voting technique. TBF it's pointless at the moment to worry about whether an independent Scotland would keep the pound or euro, stay in NATO or allow gay marriages, it would ultimately come down to who, if anybody, had a majority/mandate to do so if after a YES vote then they were voted in. The 'YES' parts of this response aren't meant to suggest any particular opinion by myself or be seen as a form of advertising. Edited October 25, 2012 by JamboInSouthsea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Exactly, independence is about self government and not about individual party politics...that would be decided afterwards if a YES vote came in to play by the usual voting technique. TBF it's pointless at the moment to worry about whether an independent Scotland would keep the pound or euro, stay in NATO or allow gay marriages, it would ultimately come down to who, if anybody, had a majority/mandate to do so if after a YES vote then they were voted in. The 'YES' parts of this response aren't meant to suggest any particular opinion by myself or be seen as a form of advertising. The aim is to sew up the constitution before a new Government is formed ... with regard to NATO, the EU, sterling etc. And as we have seen this week, the First Minister is willing to lie about aspects of this effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Exactly, independence is about self government and not about individual party politics...that would be decided afterwards if a YES vote came in to play by the usual voting technique. TBF it's pointless at the moment to worry about whether an independent Scotland would keep the pound or euro, stay in NATO or allow gay marriages, it would ultimately come down to who, if anybody, had a majority/mandate to do so if after a YES vote then they were voted in. The 'YES' parts of this response aren't meant to suggest any particular opinion by myself or be seen as a form of advertising. Your wrong, these are issues that won't be decided by the public and it matters massively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Your wrong, these are issues that won't be decided by the public and it matters massively Can you tell me why these things matter to the folk who are going to vote "No" anyway? I haven't met a "Yes" voter yet who seem to thing they matter at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Can you tell me why these things matter to the folk who are going to vote "No" anyway? I haven't met a "Yes" voter yet who seem to thing they matter at this stage. scary - I would suspect if it becomes apparent that we will lose EU membership, an will continue to be actively involved in military activity some yes voters will flip and most on the fence definitely will. You want the population o this country to take a choice, let them take a choice on the facts then we will see what the people really want and hopefully allow this county to move forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Can you tell me why these things matter to the folk who are going to vote "No" anyway? I haven't met a "Yes" voter yet who seem to thing they matter at this stage. step aboard the train, leave your luggage on the platform , it will be in the last carraige when you arrive at your destination. follow a politician blindly, yer havin a girafe, surely. this is going to be even worse than the last time we had a vote on it. gotta be the worst run campaign ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I think these are all things that no voters need reassurance of before they might change to a yes vote. I've still only seen or heard the Pro Union camp put up road blocks, i really want them to explain to me why the union is better, not just list all the potential obstacles to Independence. Many of these have been faced by countries in the past and overcome. I wonder what any recent votes in other countries have really been about?? The economy? Self Determination? Oppression? etc Think I'll do some reading........... Many of the creations of new states have been either post-Colonial or post-Communism. No vote required for most to justify independence from either of those situations. I would suggest that the onus is on the pro-independence group to offer an improvement to the status quo rather than the opposite position. Especially as the pro-independence movement is behind in the polls and the 'independence' being offered will have monetary policy run by London or Brussels, fiscal policy trammelled by Brown's debt/European fiscal rules, trade and other similar policy run by Brussels, foreign policy for the most part run by Washington etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 step aboard the train, leave your luggage on the platform , it will be in the last carraige when you arrive at your destination. follow a politician blindly, yer havin a girafe, surely. this is going to be even worse than the last time we had a vote on it. gotta be the worst run campaign ever. It's not a political thing mate. It's a referendum on whether we govern ourselves or have someone else do it for us. Follow a politician blindly?? You are correct. We currently follow politicians blindly and we don't vote them into power. Scotland has about a tenth of the population of England so our vote at Westminster really has little baring on who governs us. Just my opinion, but it appears that the no voters are looking to justify their no vote. I'm willing to be proven wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Interestingly it as actually very rare for successful independence referendums. The most likely way to become independent is to be a former colony. This just shows more than anything the yes campaign should be about convincing people that they want to live in an Independent Scotland, fighting for itself on the World Stage, not about the economy or the EU or these side issues. If the people don't care about being Scottish more than British then the No camp win no matter what else they try and tell us a post union Scotland will be like. Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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