Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[H2]

4 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Haggis and blue face paint.

That's it debate settled I concede 

[H2]

3 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

 

Here's one I prepared earlier

I think you lost that one already!

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, H2 said:

Your identity... wow now we are getting complex. You can live where ever you want, have what ever identity you want. You can identify as a penguin and live in Mexico if you want to, you can change your National idenity by living in some places for a very short time, and claim to be whatever nationality you based on 10 generations ago. What does identity have to do with the it? It's all gone mad!

 

Try this

 

https://www.offtopicscotland.com/post/scotland-and-ethnosymbolism

[H2]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

Try this

 

https://www.offtopicscotland.com/post/scotland-and-ethnosymbolism

LOL some author writes something so it's your oracle. good luck!

[Pasquale for King]

A nation is a territory where all the people are led by the same government. The word “nation” can also refer to a group of people who share a history, traditions, culture and, often, language—even if the group does not have a country of its own.

So you could argue the UK isn’t a nation, four countries and nations joined economically, you wouldn’t call the EU a nation. 

1 minute ago, H2 said:

Your identity... wow now we are getting complex. You can live where ever you want, have what ever identity you want. You can identify as a penguin and live in Mexico if you want to, you can change your National idenity by living in some places for a very short time, and claim to be whatever nationality you based on 10 generations ago. What does identity have to do with the it? It's all gone mad!

Identity is up to the individual and we can’t all be lumped together just because of where we were born etc, incredibly complex, especially nowadays. 

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, H2 said:

I think you lost that one already!

 

Are you saying that a nation can only be defined as such if it is geographically located on a single, un-interrupted land mass?

[H2]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

A nation is a territory where all the people are led by the same government. The word “nation” can also refer to a group of people who share a history, traditions, culture and, often, language—even if the group does not have a country of its own.

So you could argue the UK isn’t a nation, four countries and nations joined economically, you wouldn’t call the EU a nation. 

Identity is up to the individual and we can’t all be lumped together just because of where we were born etc, incredibly complex, especially nowadays. 

Identity is up to the individual and we can’t all be lumped together just because of where we were born etc, incredibly complex, especially nowadays. 


I think we are on the same page!

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, H2 said:

LOL some author writes something so it's your oracle. good luck!

I don't have an oracle

It's an interesting article and pertinent to this discussion

[H2]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

Are you saying that a nation can only be defined as such if it is geographically located on a single, un-interrupted land mass?

It is the only factual undisputed definition, that differentiates it from all other Nations.

[AyrJambo]

Just now, H2 said:

It is the only factual undisputed definition, that differentiates it from all other Nations.

 

What about all the nations on the American continent? (Old school American continent if you're under about 50 think North and South America)

[Japan Jambo]

So Swinney is the man, is there a vote or is it a procession? 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, H2 said:

Identity is up to the individual and we can’t all be lumped together just because of where we were born etc, incredibly complex, especially nowadays. 


I think we are on the same page!

On identity, not on the UK being a nation. 

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

So Swinney is the man, is there a vote or is it a procession? 

 

Probably depends on whether Forbes stands

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

So Swinney is the man, is there a vote or is it a procession? 

 

Just needs approval by the Greens.

[JudyJudyJudy]

19 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

What about the bible though? 

😝

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

Probably depends on whether Forbes stands

Major error to have them have any form of influence in Govt 

[AyrJambo]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

😝

 

Who Annie talkin to in that?

[OTT]

9 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Maybe that's because there isn't any palatable evidence from their perspective? 

 

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know because that information hasn't been published. We have GERS which only takes account of Scotlands economy within the UK with major decisions being made for it, not by it. So isn't a full picture, or fair estimate. 

 

I don't think there is any question that Scotland could afford Independence, but its about what exactly the economy would look like. Is the trade off worth it? would we have a surplus? would our standard of living improve?

 

if there was evidence to the contrary I'm sure the Unionists would be hammering it home every day. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Who Annie talkin to in that?

Eddie Yates ? 

[AyrJambo]

21 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Yes, but they're merely symbolic. 

 

And where different legislation applies!

[Gizmo]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Swinney is now being touted as the "party unity" candidate. 

"Unity" not "Continuity" this time? Yesterday's man, IMO. 

[AyrJambo]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Eddie Yates ? 

Could be was too quick to make out

My mum watched Corrie avidly back then so I remember all those 60s and 70s characters

[OTT]

Just now, Gizmo said:

"Unity" not "Continuity" this time? Yesterday's man, IMO. 

 

I hate that term with a burning passion, but those pushing Swinney with a straight face are the same ones that told us Salmond is yesterdays man too. 

 

Can't both be true! 

[lou]

21 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

I was diehard Labour my whole life until the tragic death of John Smith when I switched to SNP (was never going to be a Blairite) but I genuinely believe now we will slowly see the decline of the SNP. They just do not have the depth of politician to take Scotland any further forward. Sad but true. If the best we can do is Swinney then we are up jobby creek without a paddle. 

Exactly how I feel at the moment, through my job, I have met some really good SNP MSP's and ministers but they are really lacking in someone who can lead the party and unite the country 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

Could be was too quick to make out

My mum watched Corrie avidly back then so I remember all those 60s and 70s characters

Yes couldn’t make it out . But Annie was a snooty prude 😂

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes couldn’t make it out . But Annie was a snooty prude 😂

That Billy though.....LOL

[John Findlay]

28 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I see popular Scottish nationalist and occasional tree hugger Patrick Harvie is back out wanting to work with the SNP with his progressive policy agenda.

 

Hopefully for the sake of our kids the SNP finally got the message that he should be nowhere near government.

Proof that they are all spivs on the make.

[pablo]

10 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

And where different legislation applies!

 

Yes, of course. Mostly through the powers granted by Westminster. See Manchester, London and elsewhere. 

[doctor jambo]

29 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think their best politicians are down at Westminster, whether they actually want to settle up and come back is another matter. 

And pay Scottish income tax ?

don’t think so

[AyrJambo]

Just now, pablo said:

 

Yes, of course. Mostly through the powers granted by Westminster. See Manchester, London and elsewhere. 

So not symbolic then

[pablo]

14 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know because that information hasn't been published. We have GERS which only takes account of Scotlands economy within the UK with major decisions being made for it, not by it. So isn't a full picture, or fair estimate. 

 

I don't think there is any question that Scotland could afford Independence, but its about what exactly the economy would look like. Is the trade off worth it? would we have a surplus? would our standard of living improve?

 

if there was evidence to the contrary I'm sure the Unionists would be hammering it home every day. 

 

I agree completely. Well up to the point of Unionists hammering it home repeatedly. They don't actually have to as it's not them proposing such massive change and upheaval. 

[doctor jambo]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Proof that they are all spivs on the make.

Swinney wins, greens back in , more gender guff on the horizon …..

we need change.

not a rebranding 

[pablo]

1 minute ago, AyrJambo said:

So not symbolic then

 

Symbolic is the sense of them being ancient borders. But no different to any border on the island between different legislative regions. Tyne and Wear, Berkshire...wherever. 

[manaliveits105]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

I agree completely. Well up to the point of Unionists hammering it home repeatedly. They don't actually have to as it's not them proposing such massive change and upheaval. 

Exactly not hard to understand really 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

Swinney wins, greens back in , more gender guff on the horizon …..

we need change.

not a rebranding 

Sadly this is what will happen and make no mistake those nutters will be out for revenge . Expect gender nonsense on steroids 

Just now, Jim_Duncan said:

The guy who Sturgeon sent out during Covid every time she wanted to extend the jockdowns. 
 

He was a good guy in the past, but basically functioned as Sturgeon’s bitch during that whole sorry episode. 

Never forget 

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, Jim_Duncan said:

The guy who Sturgeon sent out during Covid every time she wanted to extend the jockdowns. 
 

He was a good guy in the past, but basically functioned as Sturgeon’s bitch during that whole sorry episode. 

Basically had zero self respect delivering all of sturgeons bad news and carrying her bags. 

 

If its to be him, an election is needed

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Jim_Duncan said:

 

I remember even the journos on BBC Scotland struggling to hold back the laughter when he said he was shoving cotton buds up his nose every time he left the house. 

FFS we were all duped ! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Basically had zero self respect delivering all of sturgeons bad news and carrying her bags. 

 

If its to be him, an election is needed

Yes he’s old news . It’s pathetic . He’s got so much baggage . 

[Pasquale for King]

John Swinney ffs 😱🤪🤦🏽

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

tbf, thats a throwback to the English Royal wars of the middle ages, perpetuated by Royal titles & historic nonsense.   If Scotland had been ever been designated as a Principality, we'd probably have voted for independence by now out of a sense of anger

 

Would that have been before or after we went cap in hand to the English post New Caledonia failure? 

[Lord Montpelier]

Shona Robison anyone ?

 

She is after all deputy First Minister. 

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Shona Robison anyone ?

 

She is after all deputy First Minister. 

No offence, but she has less intelligence, than the fella that's just handed his notice in.

Edited April 29 by John Findlay

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Shona Robison anyone ?

 

She is after all deputy First Minister. 

Another hopeless case ! 

[Lord Montpelier]

Just now, John Findlay said:

No offense, but she has less intelligence, than the fella that's just handed his notice in.

She could unite the Scottish Nationalist movement. Lead us to the land of milk and honey. She's certainly got the look about her of someone who enjoys standing on motorway bridges waving flags. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

She could unite the Scottish Nationalist movement. Lead us to the land of milk and honey. She's certainly got the look about her of someone who enjoys standing on motorway bridges waving flags. 

She’s another women hater 

[kingantti1874]

The reality is the SNP are a gang, who are only in power due to their stance on the constitution.  A gang of people who lack the basic level of intelligence required to govern, have taken Scotland backwards in every conceivable way yet have somehow convinced 40% of the population to vote for them on the basis of their destructive lies..

 

it transcends policy now, at least Labour or the conservatives or the Lib Dem’s will  focus on the day job and get on with running the country.

 

when the inevitable election happens, get them out.  Anyone who still votes for these utter morons needs to wake the **** up

 

get these ****ing idiots out. The worst thing to happen to Scotland in 40 years, they have done more damage than thatcher ever did.

 

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, lou said:

Wrong choice I think 

 

He's the "treading water" choice, I think.  If the SNP wants to move on and reset itself, it shouldn't be looking to the past for a leader.

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

He's the "treading water" choice, I think.  If the SNP wants to move on and reset itself, it shouldn't be looking to the past for a leader.

its the equivalent of bringing terry butcher in to save you from relegation

[ToadKiller Dog]

To soon for Flynn to take the step up I imagine his plan has always been after 2026 election .

He will lead the SNP at some point .

 

Could be Forbes v Swinney if there is a competition at all  (forbes still thinking about it )

I can see why they would go for Swinney he's a pretty neutral bland guy ,won't gain much but won't lose much ,they might just see him as short term to get through the GE .

I think that's a mistake, but they don't really have much time for say a Flynn v Forbes battle royal . 

 

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Libertarian said:

I think that there is every chance that the SNP could be down to single figures in terms of MP's after the next British election 

 

I wouldn't rule that out either, though for it to happen Labour would have to open up a 10-point lead over the SNP in the popular vote.  Not impossible, but tricky.