Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[BlueRiver]

I want a vote on the reunification of the Kingdom of Northumbria. 

 

Naebody asked me if I wanted to be parcelled in with they west Strathclydian welts. 

[AyrJambo]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

I want a vote on the reunification of the Kingdom of Northumbria. 

 

Naebody asked me if I wanted to be parcelled in with they west Strathclydian welts. 

😄

[AyrJambo]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I can feel a logo/catchphrase coming on.

PUMP FOR SCOTLAND.

 

Do not ask who your country can PUMP for you...

[BlueRiver]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

Do not ask who your country can PUMP for you...

 

😂 the speech JFK really wanted to give. 

[John Findlay]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

Do not ask who your country can PUMP for you...

Precisely.

[John Findlay]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

 

😂 the speech JFK really wanted to give. 

He would have, but was to busy with Marilyn Monroe at the time. Allegedly.

[H2]

6 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Strathclyde is not a nation

Scotland is and England is

And nation-states are the current mechanism whereby peoples of the world conduct their international business

Nations are just names for land areas. The principle is exactly the same. How do you reconcile the Spanish Issues, the splitting of Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, USSR, etc with your idealism?

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Not a great fan of the EU and its idea of democracy (I you don't give the right answer keep voting till you do). But I voted remain. And most of the bad things that have happened in the UK have not been down  to us leaving but been down to possibly the most incompetent shambolic  government in a century.

As for rejoining there is probably more chance of the EU breaking up by 2040.

 

I think a proper debate on whether rejoining the EU is good or not would be needed. Of course it seems there are obvious benefits from the single market, freedom of movement etc. But the EU limits you too. Independence supporters talk of freedom to borrow to invest. But the EU currently puts strict limits on this. 

[Jeffros Furios]

We need Scottish Elections  not another unelected tosser , prioritise infrastructure like a new Eye Hospital and less about trans and Gaza . 

[lost in space]

7 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Strathclyde is not a nation

Scotland is and England is

And nation-states are the current mechanism whereby peoples of the world conduct their international business

The UK is also a nation. We Scots were happy to be part of the EU, when we were a very small part of it. We Scots voted to stay in the EU and the UK - when we were always going to be a minority.  The people of Scotland want to be part of a larger state.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Cranston said:

Simply mere hurdles to overcome. If the polls are to be believed, with Labour making inroads here in Scotland, Sir Keir could have us back in the EU, post a fairly sizable referendum majority win, within a decade. 

The last thing any major political party wants in the UK is to make Europe an issue again. Signing up to single market conditions, like Norway, let alone rejoining, takes the immigration issue into the stratosphere again.

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, H2 said:

Nations are just names for land areas. The principle is exactly the same. How do you reconcile the Spanish Issues, the splitting of Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, USSR, etc with your idealism?

 

Nations are much more than just land areas although they are  generally georaphically defined

They also encompass the shared identity, culture, history, language, institutions and character of a people

Which is why they remain the building blocks of international relations

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 hours ago, AyrJambo said:

 

😄😄😄

 

Brilliant JJJ

Who's that on the skateboard?

 

 

Enjoy tonight!

 

 

****ing balloon

 

 

As I've pointed out many times on here the SNP are NOT nationalists - and there is the proof!

 

 

If Yousaf agrees to push the SNP1/Alba 2 strategy suggested by Alba last time, where SNP stand for constituency seats and Alba only stand for list seats that could be good for independence and for Alba - so he won't do it!!

 

It’s Elle somebody .  A green activist . Well I’ve got a very sare heid this morning . Was out till 3 am . Shanks as expected won player of the year and in a nice surprise Alan Forest won goal of the season . I had a nice tete a tete with top diamond geeezer Frankie Kent  !! 

[AyrJambo]

2 minutes ago, lost in space said:

The UK is also a nation. We Scots were happy to be part of the EU, when we were a very small part of it. We Scots voted to stay in the EU and the UK - when we were always going to be a minority.  The people of Scotland want to be part of a larger state.

 

No it's not

The UK is a unitary state consisting of several nations

Edited April 29 by AyrJambo

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

We need Scottish Elections  not another unelected tosser , prioritise infrastructure like a new Eye Hospital and less about trans and Gaza . 

we need economic growth above all else.

that means more income, so infrastructure can be invested in.

more money in pockets= improved mental wellbeing .

its the economy, stupid

[H2]

1 minute ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Nations are much more than just land areas although they are  generally georaphically defined

They also encompass the shared identity, culture, history, language, institutions and character of a people

Which is why they remain the building blocks of international relations

There are massive difference in cultures , identity , history, institutions and character of people  and language in many countries. The people in Strathclyde will tell you that they are very different form the people of Edinburgh, for example. The culture in the North of Scotland is very different from the Central belt. Where do you want to draw the lines.... oh I know, land areas!

[AyrJambo]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

It’s Elle somebody .  A green activist . Well I’ve got a very sare heid this morning . Was out till 3 am . Shanks as expected won player of the year and in a nice surprise Alan Forest won goal of the season . I had a nice tete a tete with top diamond geeezer Frankie Kent  !! 

 

Ahh yeah Elle Gomersall

Sounds like a good night at POTY

 

Just settle doon with some popcorn at midday

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Ahh yeah Elle Gomersall

Sounds like a good night at POTY

 

Just settle doon with some popcorn at midday

Yes was a good night . Oh I’ve got popcorn at the ready 

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, H2 said:

There are massive difference in cultures , identity , history, institutions and character of people  and language in many countries. The people in Strathclyde will tell you that they are very different form the people of Edinburgh, for example. The culture in the North of Scotland is very different from the Central belt. Where do you want to draw the lines.... oh I know, land areas!

 

Not  denying there are cultural differences within nations but there are also shared national characteristics which transcend those regional differences

People in Strathclyde and people in the North of Scotland (to use the regional examples you gave) all share a Scottish national identity

[Australis]

Outside Bute house just now. 😁😀😃🇬🇧

Edited April 29 by Australis

[manaliveits105]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes was a good night . Oh I’ve got popcorn at the ready 

White ?

[Cranston]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The last thing any major political party wants in the UK is to make Europe an issue again. Signing up to single market conditions, like Norway, let alone rejoining, takes the immigration issue into the stratosphere again.

Of course not. It won't be the first item on the agenda. Sir Keir has already suggested building better relations with the EU, to begin with, bilateral issues of mutual agreeance, for example. However, the longer term objective, will be to re join. It will happen though, very likely within a decade. 

 

Lots of key national issues to focus on, however, I'm sure that Sir Keir will have supra international objectives in mind, for the greater good, that will impact upon Scotland. 

 

It looks likely that the Snp will lose considerable support from its base, to Labour, given the shambles, that has developed, and I'm merely pointing out, the benefits that Sir Keir could deliver, for Scotland. 

 

Short term and long term. 

 

We need change, quickly, and it looks as if Labour will be given the responsibility to deliver it. 

[AyrJambo]

4 minutes ago, Australis said:

Outside Bute house just now. 😁😀😃🇬🇧

😄😄😄

[Cade]

Humza was a used car salesman with no ideas.

Forbes is a religious nutter with backwards social views.

Swinney is a dimwit.

Nobody else is even worth considering.

What a feckin shambles.

Complacency has crept in over the long years of being in government and now the well has run dry, despite the continuing public support for the party.

It's plain as day that Labour, Tories or LibDems are not credible either, tied as they are to their Westminster overlords and incapable of making Scotland-specific policies of their own.

 

Not a promising picture. Scottish politics needs to give itself a shake. The traditional parties need to uncouple from their London masters and actually concentrate on Scotland. The SNP needs to realise that it's becoming like Labour was, taking the Scottish voting population for granted and resulting in eventual punishment from the populous. 
Where's all the talent?
Where are the big thinkers?
Where are the statespeople?

 

Edited April 29 by Cade

[AyrJambo]

Just now, Cade said:

Humza was a used car salesman with no ideas.

Forbes is a religious nutter with backwards social views.

Swinney is a dimwit.

Nobody else is even worth considering.

What a feckin shambles.

Complacency has crept in over the long years of being in government and now the well has run dry, despite the continuing public support for the party.

It's plain as day that Labour, Tories or LibDems are not credible either, tied as they are to their Westminster overlords and incapable of making Scotland-specific policies of their own.

 

Not a promising picture. Scottish politics needs to give itself a shake. The traditional parties need to uncouple from their London masters and actually concentrate on Scotland. The SNP needs to realise that it's becoming like Labour was, taking the Scottish voting population for granted and resulting in eventual punishment from the populous. 
Where's all the talent?
Where are the big thinkers?
Where are the statespeople?

 

 

In Alba, ISP, Salvo, Commonweal

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

White ?

Course 

[lost in space]

20 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

No it's not

The UK is a unitary state consisting of several nations

Semantics.  OK, UK is a country then.

[Lord Montpelier]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Humza was a used car salesman with no ideas.

Forbes is a religious nutter with backwards social views.

Swinney is a dimwit.

Nobody else is even worth considering.

What a feckin shambles.

Complacency has crept in over the long years of being in government and now the well has run dry, despite the continuing public support for the party.

It's plain as day that Labour, Tories or LibDems are not credible either, tied as they are to their Westminster overlords and incapable of making Scotland-specific policies of their own.

 

Not a promising picture. Scottish politics needs to give itself a shake. The traditional parties need to uncouple from their London masters and actually concentrate on Scotland. The SNP needs to realise that it's becoming like Labour was, taking the Scottish voting population for granted and resulting in eventual punishment from the populous. 
Where's all the talent?
Where are the big thinkers?
Where are the statespeople?

 

Your last questions

 

Simple answer 

 

All the smart people go work in private business. More cash / less hassle. Leaving the dimwits for political parties. 

[Lord Montpelier]

4 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

In Alba, ISP, Salvo, Commonweal

Lol, who on earth are Commonweal

[AyrJambo]

4 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Semantics.  OK, UK is a country then.

 

No it's a state consisting of several countries - unless you are arguing that Wales and Scotland are not countries?

[Mikey1874]

Live feed

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-68918348

[AyrJambo]

5 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Lol, who on earth are Commonweal

 

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=commonweal+scotland

[hughesie27]

Good speech. 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

getting my bingo card ready;

 

Its Westminsters' fault

Too white

Fair

progressive

pwowd vewwy pwoud

Independence

Brexit

EU

Gender

Hate crimes

Women

Them Toareeez, if it wasn't for them pesky Toareez

Nicola

Greens

Alex Salmond

Being Muslim

Wind farms

The People

Self determination

Mammy wherz ma mammy

 

 

"My values" it is

[Mikey1874]

Multiculturalism now has succeeded.

 

"All white" out since the 10,000 hate crime complaints 

[henryheart]

18 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

No it's not

The UK is a unitary state consisting of several nations

 

18 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Not  denying there are cultural differences within nations but there are also shared national characteristics which transcend those regional differences

People in Strathclyde and people in the North of Scotland (to use the regional examples you gave) all share a Scottish national identity

 

The UK is a nation in the same way that the USA is. I don't have a Scottish identity. As a city dweller I have much more in common with people in other cities within the UK than I do with people who live in geographically remoter rural areas such as the highlands of Scotland or Cornwall, for example. People in New York City will have more inn common with people in Chicago than they will with those in Virginia for example. 

 

What you suggest is that a person living a hundred yards north of the imaginary boundary between Scotland and England has a Scottish identity and those living just south of the boundary have an English identity. That is just fantasy.

 

I don't have a Scottish identity. As a city dweller I have much more in common with people in other cities within the UK than I do with people who live in geographically remoter rural areas such as the highlands of Scotland or Cornwall, for example. 

 

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Good speech. 

 

Yeah.

 

Admitted he got it badly wrong in how he ditched the Greens.

[ToadKiller Dog]

4 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Good speech. 

Yeah to be fair ,admitting an error rare for politicians .

he is saying a lot of (finally) what independence supporters would want to hear .

Edited April 29 by ToadKiller Dog

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah.

 

Admitted he got it badly wrong in how he ditched the Greens.

That's the one thing he got right. Watching the freakish scottish green tears and tantrums last week was a joy

[hughesie27]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah.

 

Admitted he got it badly wrong in how he ditched the Greens.

Tbf I think it was the right call.

 

It wasn't the right call by the SNP electing him in the first place though.

[Mikey1874]

Vote of no confidence still on then.

[Hagar the Horrible]

7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Good speech. 

It was, the best job he has done, but the Audio and Imagies were out of sync, just Like his term in office

[OTT]

Just now, Lord Montpelier said:

That's the one thing he got right. Watching the freakish scottish green tears and tantrums last week was a joy

 

The level of hate towards Salmond within the SNP is quite something. 

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, lost in space said:

The Scots all knew that the bulk of UK voters were in England. We (Scots) knew that our small number was not likely to change the UK view in all/any big decision.

THIS SHOULD NOT COME AS A SURPRISE TO ANYONE.

We chose to stay as part of the UK - knowing that we, as Scots, would not always get what we wanted.

So why the false anger and outrage???

Its called democracy - you are not always going to get what you want - get over it.

 

From the Better Together campaign.

I wouldn't blame some voters for feeling conned, including some who voted for Brexit and got a very different Brexit than was sold to them. 

You can argue it's the "will of the people" if you want, but the economic damage from a poorly managed exit still exists. 

[Lone Striker]

A bit strange that he rejected Ash Regan's demands (which were fairly mild and non-controversial) - which suggests he felt under pressure generally as FM, and just decided enough was enough.

[Mikey1874]

Yousef out was predicted. Less clear what happens next. Kate Forbes might have preferred slightly better circumstances. 

[Gizmo]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah.

 

Admitted he got it badly wrong in how he ditched the Greens.

He possesses all the political nous of a potato, what on earth did he think would happen when he ditched the makeweights in a coalition? 

Once again, and I know I shouldn't be, I'm gobsmacked at the lack of political talent in this country. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

19 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

No it's a state consisting of several countries - unless you are arguing that Wales and Scotland are not countries?

 

Wales is a Principality. 

[lost in space]

19 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

No it's a state consisting of several countries - unless you are arguing that Wales and Scotland are not countries?

Semantics again. UK is a country as is Scotland etc

The wording doesnt matter - the people of Scotland have democratically decided to be part of the UK, knowing that they would have to abide by decisions made by the whole of the UK.

[Lone Striker]

7 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

The level of hate towards Salmond within the SNP is quite something. 

Seems that way.  Maybe some of the Nats on here can explain the reasons for it ?