periodictabledancer Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 57 minutes ago, pablo said: Holy shit. That's abhorrent. It isn't but it's an entirely predictable response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 42 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: I know Bloody cheek they have with all them professional skills and experience and working too. Contribuiting . Probably paying more taxes than some others too. I thought the nationalists were all for inward migration and the economic and cultural benefits that can bring But maybe I was wrong and it's a more selective philosophy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: I thought the nationalists were all for inward migration and the economic and cultural benefits that can bring But maybe I was wrong and it's a more selective philosophy Only want migrants who will tow the stasi line . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 8 hours ago, Libertarian said: For the first time in my life I will probably abstain although I would vote Alba, Scottish Independence Party or Scottish Libertarian Party if they stand in my constituency. I certainly can't vote for any unionist party and the SNP have betrayed the trust placed in them by the Scottish electorate and are now part of the problem. I suppose that’s your democratic right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, AyrJambo said: Did you read the numbers? 0.9% would have little effect on English culture and institutions 13% to 15% is a different ball game Me thinks one is paranoid and doth protest to much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, AyrJambo said: I have no issue with you, your family, anyone from England or indeed anywhere else who chooses to come here to live/work/rest/ or otherwise lead their life I have in the past chosen to live and work abroad and I would react the way you have if someone had called me a "settler" or "occupier" so apologies for any offence but I was not referring to any individual people It's not about individuals it's about the inherent imbalance built in to a union between two countries where one has a population over 10 times the size of the other Population of the UK and its constituent countries, mid-2021 UK 67,026,000 England 56,536,000 Wales 3,105,000 Northern Ireland 1,905,000 Scotland 5,480,000 If 10% of the Scottish population moved to England they would make up around 0.9% of the population in England - very easily assimilated If 10% of the English population moved to Scotland they would make up around a whopping 103% of the populattion in Scotland - not so easily assimilated The 2011 census shows that the largest group of migrants living in Scotland was around 500,000 people born in England and Wales and based on recent trends will probably exceed 750,000 by now - that is well over 10% of the population Additionally these migrants tend to be professionals - doctors, academics, civil servants and teachers - so policy-shapers and opinion formers For example in 2018 33% of all teachers across Scotland were from England I'm not arguing that only Scots should be allowed to live and work in Scotland or that only Scots should be able to teach in Scotland but the levels of migration into Scotland from one other country, England, are a form of de facto colonisation This is why I detest nationalism. Can you imagine the brain drain if we achieved Independence? If we could find a market for bitterness we’d be fine in fairness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said: We should be applauding these "migrants" crossing the border into Scotland with their professional skills and experience imo. Well done them Really? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said: So what? we are the United Kingdom . We can live and move anywhere in this union. What a very parachochial xeonphobic SNP attitude. Who said anything about the SNP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranston Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said: So what? we are the United Kingdom . We can live and move anywhere in this union. What a very parachochial xeonphobic SNP attitude. Oohh you are awful but i like you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranston Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 8 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: This is why I detest nationalism. Can you imagine the brain drain if we achieved Independence? If we could find a market for bitterness we’d be fine in fairness. That's why Salmond and Sturgeon didn't achieve independence. Their massive ego's and anti UK policies were disastrous. They could and should have delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, Cranston said: Oohh you are awful but i like you Well that’s nice . I like you too 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 6 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: This is why I detest nationalism. Can you imagine the brain drain if we achieved Independence? If we could find a market for bitterness we’d be fine in fairness. The world runs on nationalism Nation states are the default entities by which peoples interact and legitimised by the United...err...Nations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 3 hours ago, AyrJambo said: I have no issue with you, your family, anyone from England or indeed anywhere else who chooses to come here to live/work/rest/ or otherwise lead their life I have in the past chosen to live and work abroad and I would react the way you have if someone had called me a "settler" or "occupier" so apologies for any offence but I was not referring to any individual people It's not about individuals it's about the inherent imbalance built in to a union between two countries where one has a population over 10 times the size of the other Population of the UK and its constituent countries, mid-2021 UK 67,026,000 England 56,536,000 Wales 3,105,000 Northern Ireland 1,905,000 Scotland 5,480,000 If 10% of the Scottish population moved to England they would make up around 0.9% of the population in England - very easily assimilated If 10% of the English population moved to Scotland they would make up around a whopping 103% of the populattion in Scotland - not so easily assimilated The 2011 census shows that the largest group of migrants living in Scotland was around 500,000 people born in England and Wales and based on recent trends will probably exceed 750,000 by now - that is well over 10% of the population Additionally these migrants tend to be professionals - doctors, academics, civil servants and teachers - so policy-shapers and opinion formers For example in 2018 33% of all teachers across Scotland were from England I'm not arguing that only Scots should be allowed to live and work in Scotland or that only Scots should be able to teach in Scotland but the levels of migration into Scotland from one other country, England, are a form of de facto colonisation So who are the colonists then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 39 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: This is why I detest nationalism. Can you imagine the brain drain if we achieved Independence? If we could find a market for bitterness we’d be fine in fairness. You are aware that the British state is failing apart with record amounts of debt, increasing poverty and deprivation. Social mobility is declining along with life expectancy in many working class areas. The British establishment are literally killing people by maintaining the status quo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 30 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: The world runs on nationalism Nation states are the default entities by which peoples interact and legitimised by the United...err...Nations There is a massive difference between self interest and nationalism. Oh and the United Nations was actually formed on the back of a world war caused by rather exuberant nationalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cranston said: The Snp unfortunately, took the wrong course of policy towards the UK. Instead of making Scotland a success story, and demonstrating what could be, they did the complete opposite. Their main policy seems to have been deliberate failure, and blame the UK government for all their ills. Salmond and Sturgeon should have very easily completed the dream outcome, but look at them both now. Their reputations in tatters, their party facing terminal decline. A shambles. Agree pretty much with most of this. However the SNP under Salmond provided reasonably competent government. Remember that Salmond was found unanoumsly not guilty and that the accusers (some of whom are being investigated for perjury) were all close to Sturgeon. Edited March 22 by Libertarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 58 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Only want migrants who will tow the stasi line . Pretty clear they don't want the English migrants. The bitterness, jealousy and hatred of the English is evidently alive and well in Ayr. Thank goodness their childish attitude is destined to fail, albeit not before they've caused untold damage to Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranston Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Libertarian said: Agree pretty much with most of this. However the SNP under Salmond provided reasonably competent government. Remember that Salmond was found unanoumsly not guilty and that the accusers (some of whom are being investigated for perjury) were all close to Sturgeon. The court of public opinion matters also, I'm afraid, and he lost a lot of trust and support after that. You're probably right about the reasonably competent, but the charge sheet did for him. Leering, leching, pinning down women, sticking unwanted tongue in throat etc. He may have been found not guilty but the mud stuck. No, what the snp needs is a fresh untainted, middle ground, super speaker type. Not going to happen overnight though unfortunately. They are on the downward I'm afraid to say. Labour will hoover up those who swapped sides for Salmond and Sturgeon all those years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Pretty clear they don't want the English migrants. The bitterness, jealousy and hatred of the English is evidently alive and well in Ayr. Thank goodness their childish attitude is destined to fail, albeit not before they've caused untold damage to Scotland. It's nothing to do with hatred of anyone, English or otherwise People in England are just as much victims of the way the UK is run and has been run for centuries for the benefit of the British Establishment Scotland has a way out of the cluster**** that is the UK and that is to normalise as a once more independent sovereign state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Libertarian said: You are aware that the British state is failing apart with record amounts of debt, increasing poverty and deprivation. Social mobility is declining along with life expectancy in many working class areas. The British establishment are literally killing people by maintaining the status quo The record amount of debt is a concern but in global terms the UK is hardly stand alone with this problem. Unless we invent a time machine and take a different path with North sea oil we unfortunately need to get on with it. How do you suggest we turn things around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 59 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: Really? Why? You've probably applauded Frankie Kent this season ? A man who has crossed the border with his professional skills and experience ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: It's nothing to do with hatred of anyone, English or otherwise People in England are just as much victims of the way the UK is run and has been run for centuries for the benefit of the British Establishment Scotland has a way out of the cluster**** that is the UK and that is to normalise as a once more independent sovereign state You don't like English people. It's obvious. We get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 7 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: It's nothing to do with hatred of anyone, English or otherwise People in England are just as much victims of the way the UK is run and has been run for centuries for the benefit of the British Establishment Scotland has a way out of the cluster**** that is the UK and that is to normalise as a once more independent sovereign state People need to take way more personal responsibility. It's very easy to keep blaming the establishment and not taking a long hard look at yourself for finding yourself in a position of financial instability. Education is there to better yourself and unlike in the land of the colonisers it's free here. Could you please answer which currency an Independent Scotland would use? What trading relations would you like with England the great colonisers? Edited March 22 by Des Lynam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said: You don't like English people. It's obvious. We get it. Absolute nonsense! English people are NOT the English state That is the establishment from the corrupt, money-grabbing and (in Scotland) illegitimate Royals, through the un-elected peers including the Scots ones whose ancestors were bribed to take us in to this "union" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 6 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: The record amount of debt is a concern but in global terms the UK is hardly stand alone with this problem. Unless we invent a time machine and take a different path with North sea oil we unfortunately need to get on with it. How do you suggest we turn things around? I really don't see how the interests of Scotland are served by allowing our wealth to be siphoned off to the South East of England. I'm pretty sure that Scotland is more than capable of making decisions for the benefit and prosperity of its citizens, rather than allowing a bunch of spivs from the city of London to treat Scotland as a cash cow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 6 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: Absolute nonsense! English people are NOT the English state That is the establishment from the corrupt, money-grabbing and (in Scotland) illegitimate Royals, through the un-elected peers including the Scots ones whose ancestors were bribed to take us in to this "union" You've applauded Frankie Kent though, yeah ? An English man plying his trade in Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: Absolute nonsense! English people are NOT the English state That is the establishment from the corrupt, money-grabbing and (in Scotland) illegitimate Royals, through the un-elected peers including the Scots ones whose ancestors were bribed to take us in to this "union" Illegitimate royals? The current lot descends from James vi, act of settlement and all that. I've no time for them, or any monarch, but least of things to be put out about. Scotland's version of Protestantism would not tolerate a catholic monarch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 14 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: People need to take way more personal responsibility. It's very easy to keep blaming the establishment and not taking a long hard look at yourself for finding yourself in a position of financial instability. Education is there to better yourself and unlike in the land of the colonisers it's free here. Could you please answer which currency an Independent Scotland would use? What trading relations would you like with England the great colonisers? A Scottish currency I'm no currency expert but something along.... An independent Scotland would be able to set up its own currency in the years following independence. Alternatively, depending on the timescale related to the path to independence taken, it may be able to set it up in advance of independence. It may be advantageous to maintain stability by continuing to use sterling for a while as financial institutions such as the Scottish Central Bank are developed. At the time when it is most advantageous to transition to an independent currency, Scotland will do so. That could be day one – or it could be a longer period such as a few months or even a year. It should not, however, be a long term or even medium term strategy, as the advantages of being a sovereign currency issuer will quickly overtake the stability advantages and mitigate future volatility. Cordial as with the trading relations of most neighbouring countries Think I'm right in saying that Scotland is the only part of the UK with a trade surplus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 7 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: You've applauded Frankie Kent though, yeah ? An English man plying his trade in Scotland. Yes but as I've said it's not about individuals And Frankie's professionalism is fitba' hardly equivalent to civil servants, academics and teachers shaping policy and opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 16 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: Absolute nonsense! English people are NOT the English state That is the establishment from the corrupt, money-grabbing and (in Scotland) illegitimate Royals, through the un-elected peers including the Scots ones whose ancestors were bribed to take us in to this "union" Get over it. Union is hundreds of years old and it's the excuse of the pathetic and weak to blame this act for individuals lifestyles in today's society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Boris said: Illegitimate royals? The current lot descends from James vi, act of settlement and all that. I've no time for them, or any monarch, but least of things to be put out about. Scotland's version of Protestantism would not tolerate a catholic monarch. Illegitimate as in having no legitimacy in Scotland since they have not undergone a Scottish coronation, not since Queen Anne in 1706 or 07 That would involve them publicly acknowledging that they are not sovereign here as they are in England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Get over it. Union is hundreds of years old and it's the excuse of the pathetic and weak to blame this act for individuals lifestyles in today's society. So if something is old it cannot be changed? And presumably the older it is the more impossible it becomes? OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 (edited) 4 hours ago, AyrJambo said: I have no issue with you, your family, anyone from England or indeed anywhere else who chooses to come here to live/work/rest/ or otherwise lead their life I have in the past chosen to live and work abroad and I would react the way you have if someone had called me a "settler" or "occupier" so apologies for any offence but I was not referring to any individual people It's not about individuals it's about the inherent imbalance built in to a union between two countries where one has a population over 10 times the size of the other Population of the UK and its constituent countries, mid-2021 UK 67,026,000 England 56,536,000 Wales 3,105,000 Northern Ireland 1,905,000 Scotland 5,480,000 If 10% of the Scottish population moved to England they would make up around 0.9% of the population in England - very easily assimilated If 10% of the English population moved to Scotland they would make up around a whopping 103% of the populattion in Scotland - not so easily assimilated The 2011 census shows that the largest group of migrants living in Scotland was around 500,000 people born in England and Wales and based on recent trends will probably exceed 750,000 by now - that is well over 10% of the population Additionally these migrants tend to be professionals - doctors, academics, civil servants and teachers - so policy-shapers and opinion formers For example in 2018 33% of all teachers across Scotland were from England I'm not arguing that only Scots should be allowed to live and work in Scotland or that only Scots should be able to teach in Scotland but the levels of migration into Scotland from one other country, England, are a form of de facto colonisation Holy ****! If that was written about foreigners coming to England, you'd be challenging Nigel Farage for his position🤣🤣🤣 Edited March 22 by Dawnrazor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: So if something is old it cannot be changed? And presumably the older it is the more impossible it becomes? OK Plenty of opportunity to make something of yourself in Scotland. If you can't take advantage of what is on offer, look in a mirror and you'll see who to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 15 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Get over it. Union is hundreds of years old and it's the excuse of the pathetic and weak to blame this act for individuals lifestyles in today's society. Not as old as Scotland as an independent nation prior to the union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 17 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: A Scottish currency I'm no currency expert but something along.... An independent Scotland would be able to set up its own currency in the years following independence. Alternatively, depending on the timescale related to the path to independence taken, it may be able to set it up in advance of independence. It may be advantageous to maintain stability by continuing to use sterling for a while as financial institutions such as the Scottish Central Bank are developed. At the time when it is most advantageous to transition to an independent currency, Scotland will do so. That could be day one – or it could be a longer period such as a few months or even a year. It should not, however, be a long term or even medium term strategy, as the advantages of being a sovereign currency issuer will quickly overtake the stability advantages and mitigate future volatility. Cordial as with the trading relations of most neighbouring countries Think I'm right in saying that Scotland is the only part of the UK with a trade surplus An independent currency with a Scottish central bank within a year??? I thought you would want to re join the euro after gaining independence from the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Plenty of opportunity to make something of yourself in Scotland. If you can't take advantage of what is on offer, look in a mirror and you'll see who to blame. You can personalise this all you want You know nothing about me or my personal circumstances I'll stick to the arguments rather than resorting to snide insinuations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, Boris said: Not as old as Scotland as an independent nation prior to the union. So Scotland are a kind of "Sevco"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 15 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: Illegitimate as in having no legitimacy in Scotland since they have not undergone a Scottish coronation, not since Queen Anne in 1706 or 07 That would involve them publicly acknowledging that they are not sovereign here as they are in England Well, if pomp and ceremony is your bag. But, arguably, since the act of union, they're crowned as monarch of UK, albeit using the traditional English method. I believe Elizabeth ii had a private coronation of sorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: So Scotland are a kind of "Sevco"? More of a conglomerate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: An independent currency with a Scottish central bank within a year??? I thought you would want to re join the euro after gaining independence from the UK? Look at Estonia Independent in 1991 Currency by 1992 Why do you think that? I haven't mentioned either the European union or the euro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, Boris said: More of a conglomerate? Isn't everywhere though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, Boris said: Well, if pomp and ceremony is your bag. But, arguably, since the act of union, they're crowned as monarch of UK, albeit using the traditional English method. I believe Elizabeth ii had a private coronation of sorts. Not true There is no UK "crown" Only an English crown and a Scottish crown and they are two very different beasts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, Jim_Duncan said: FTFY These bloody English colonisers Boot the lot of them out Is basically what the man from Ayr wants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 10 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: An independent currency with a Scottish central bank within a year??? I thought you would want to re join the euro after gaining independence from the UK? Why not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 15 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Plenty of opportunity to make something of yourself in Scotland. If you can't take advantage of what is on offer, look in a mirror and you'll see who to blame. Feck me. You're like a bitter old right wing dial-a-trope bot. Without doubt the most miserable **** on here by a country mile. And there's some stiff competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 8 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: Look at Estonia Independent in 1991 Currency by 1992 Why do you think that? I haven't mentioned either the European union or the euro We would have to adopt the Euro as currency. I don't know how the Independence movement sells that to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 9 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: I bet that got a round of applause from both the other guys at your last 'meeting'. Held I suspect on a bridge over the m74 with the usual assortment of flags, banners, face paints and war crys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 8 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: My grandad was from Somerset. He lived in Edinburgh for work. I'll most likely be on one of the trains when Reichsführer Ayr Jambo starts plotting a solution to this whole issue. Wan Folk. Wan State. Wan Ker. Bet I'd be before you in the train queue lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said: We would have to adopt the Euro as currency. I don't know how the Independence movement sells that to the public. Not a problem. Clearly you don't agree. But I'm struggling to see why - if a country votes for EU membership - there's a problem adopting the Euro. Independence does not logically lead to EU membership/ the Euro. One is not the consequence of the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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