Maddy Mccann

[fabienleclerq]

Also even if you did find it acceptable to leave them alone, Maddie asked them on the day why they didn't come the night before when they were crying. No parent I know would leave a child another night if they were asked that by a three year old kid

[doctor jambo]

30 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

And where is the body?  Every blade of grass has been turned over in search for her.  By eye witness accounts they had a window of around 3 minutes to go to the room, pick up Maddie and hide her.  Did Maddie just spontaneously combust?

You presume of course it happened that night after they went out.....

it could have happened prior to them going out.

No one actually said they saw Maddie that night .

The check was not that thorough "heard one of the twins turn in their sleep so left" was I think what their pal said of his check.

Their time frames were also inconsistant

[i8hibsh]

2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Problem is there is absolutely zero evidence of any abduction either- like none.

An abduction in a closed room, overlooked by other apartments, in a busy resort, with easier victims on hand, in peak season.

You'd have thought at least 2 people involved, a car,a boat, a drive to the harbour, then onwards from there.

Period of surveillance, knowing routines, risk of discovery,

just doesn't stack up for me

 

 

 

There is something fishy imo, but the fish smell is not with Kate and Jerry.  I just refuse to believe decent people like that could kill their child and cover it up.  Far too much reasonable doubt.  If they were guilty then I have no doubt they would be incarcerated by now.  There are little facts in this case but there is absolutely zero pointing to the guilt of the McCann’s.  I actually don’t particularly like the McCann’s, I am sick of the site of them tbh but accusing parents of killing their child is something I do not take very lightly.

[i8hibsh]

I guess I better stop posting on this thread as the usual suspects will come on and accuse me of being a child murdering sympathiser because I am not throwing the book at the parents.

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

 

There is something fishy imo, but the fish smell is not with Kate and Jerry.  I just refuse to believe decent people like that could kill their child and cover it up.  Far too much reasonable doubt.  If they were guilty then I have no doubt they would be incarcerated by now.  There are little facts in this case but there is absolutely zero pointing to the guilt of the McCann’s.  I actually don’t particularly like the McCann’s, I am sick of the site of them tbh but accusing parents of killing their child is something I do not take very lightly.

You cannot assume they are decent people TBH.

Their parental recklessness implies otherwise.

Sure they had good jobs, but that's all.

 

There is an underlying current that follows the OD chain of thought.

THe recent drama involving Jenna Coleman where they OD'd the baby in Aus and hid it struck me as loosely based on this story

[i8hibsh]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

You cannot assume they are decent people TBH.

Their parental recklessness implies otherwise.

Sure they had good jobs, but that's all.

 

There is an underlying current that follows the OD chain of thought.

THe recent drama involving Jenna Coleman where they OD'd the baby in Aus and hid it struck me as loosely based on this story

 

 

But I can’t just assume they are not decent people. 

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

I guess I better stop posting on this thread as the usual suspects will come on and accuse me of being a child murdering sympathiser because I am not throwing the book at the parents.

Not at all,

however nobody so far has come up with a credible alternative with even the faintest scrap of evidence.

Every time the Brit police produced anything it pointed straight at the Mccanns, as opposed to stranger abduction.

cadaver dogs, blood dogs, forensics, the palm print on the INSIDE of the window, snuggle cat triggering the dogs, kates clothes triggering the dog, the hire car

evidence of an abduction? not a thing

[i8hibsh]

7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Not at all,

however nobody so far has come up with a credible alternative with even the faintest scrap of evidence.

Every time the Brit police produced anything it pointed straight at the Mccanns, as opposed to stranger abduction.

cadaver dogs, blood dogs, forensics, the palm print on the INSIDE of the window, snuggle cat triggering the dogs, kates clothes triggering the dog, the hire car

evidence of an abduction? not a thing

 

 

For 12 years the police will have been trying to collar the McCanns and hell knows the world is wanting to see it but would you consider giving the benefit of your doubt to the fact that the McCann’s have still not been convicted of anything . The evidence is clearly not there. 

[Maroon Sailor]

The whole case has been a farce ..... and still is. 

 

That poor guy giving a TV interview became a suspect purely on the basis of Huntley being interviewed on SKY about the Soham girls.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

For 12 years the police will have been trying to collar the McCanns and hell knows the world is wanting to see it but would you consider giving the benefit of your doubt to the fact that the McCann’s have still not been convicted of anything . The evidence is clearly not there. 

I don't believe they have been trying to collar them.

The full force of the McCann PR machine has gone after anyone who has tried.

More than a decade and > £10 million spent on doing what the Mccanns wanted .

Numerous litigations against people who implied their involvement.

Have the British police investigated the couple themselves?

All the Portuguese police got were "no comment, now we're leaving your country"

[The Doc]

http://thegaspersstatement.blogspot.com/2009/10/statement-of-dr-katherine-zacharias.html?m=1

 

For context...Been talking about the Netflix series on a WhatsApp group chat and someone linked the above. First time I’ve read it. Thought I’d share.

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by The Doc

[Jambo-Jimbo]

23 minutes ago, The Doc said:

http://thegaspersstatement.blogspot.com/2009/10/statement-of-dr-katherine-zacharias.html?m=1

 

For context...Been talking about the Netflix series on a WhatsApp group chat and someone linked the above. First time I’ve read it. Thought I’d share.

 

 

Oh dear!  If what is claimed in that statement is true, it makes you wonder if this is how decent people talk.

 

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Oh dear!  If what is claimed in that statement is true, it makes you wonder if this is how decent people talk.

 

Somebody does that anywhere near my kids and that would be the last time we saw them.

also - bathing each others kids?

eh, naw

[Jambo-Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Somebody does that anywhere near my kids and that would be the last time we saw them.

also - bathing each others kids?

eh, naw

 

Like I said, if what is being claimed is the truth, is this the behaviour of so called 'decent people'?

I know what I think.

 

 

 

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Like I said, if what is being claimed is the truth, is this the behaviour of so called 'decent people'?

I know what I think.

 

 

 

Because they're bad, they're bad shamow.

When the whole world comes to answer my call, I will tell you once again.

Who's bad?

[Swanny17]

2 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

Also even if you did find it acceptable to leave them alone, Maddie asked them on the day why they didn't come the night before when they were crying. No parent I know would leave a child another night if they were asked that by a three year old kid

 

In fairness, Kate McCann did say they made a “mental note” when Madeleine asked them that. Yes, that’s right, a mental note. ???

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

Somebody does that anywhere near my kids and that would be the last time we saw them.

also - bathing each others kids?

eh, naw

 

He wouldn't be anywhere near my kid after speaking like that, tbh he wouldn't be anywhere near me either. Bathing friends  kids isn't particularly weird imo, at that age you chuck them in the bath together.

[haveyouheard 22]

Wonder why the Parents never participated in the Documentary 

[Carl Fredrickson]

21 minutes ago, haveyouheard 22 said:

Wonder why the Parents never participated in the Documentary 

 

I think they were damned if they did and damned if they didnt. 

 

Take part and some would say they were using their PR machine again. Dont and folk say they have something to hide. 

 

I personally would have preferred them to have been involved but can understand why they would refuse. 

[haveyouheard 22]

30 minutes ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

I think they were damned if they did and damned if they didnt. 

 

Take part and some would say they were using their PR machine again. Dont and folk say they have something to hide. 

 

I personally would have preferred them to have been involved but can understand why they would refuse. 

Pretty much the same here

 

Though what a platform for the parents it would have been and I dont get the Police investigation is  still on going so we cant talk

 

I think the McCanns are put off by awkward questions who  also like to be in control and to this day I dont see any change from them 

[Greenbank2]

I have previously watched “the true story of Madeleine McCann - buried by the mainstream media” on youtube. Not as slick, but more expansive in its analysis of the evidence. In particular the abduction narrative. For me, it comes down to the following questions;

- why no evidence of abduction? Indeed there is evidence that the window could not have been used as an entry/exit point. 

- why did the twins sleep throughout?

- why did Kate assume immediately that Madeleine had been abducted?

- why the deep inconsistencies re. Who did what within the Tapas group?

- are the blood dog and cadaver dog search results without reasonable doubt?

now there may be good explainatioins to all of these, but until these fundamental (and you would have thought easily dealt with) questions are answered, there is sufficient suspicion of the McCanns to question their involvement. 

[JT1959]

The Gaspar statement was made to Leicestershire Police some 2 weeks after Maddie "disappeared". The information was not passed to the investigating Portuguese team until months and months later. The Gaspar and Martin Smith statements have always raised questions for me.

[haveyouheard 22]

15 minutes ago, JT1959 said:

The Gaspar statement was made to Leicestershire Police some 2 weeks after Maddie "disappeared". The information was not passed to the investigating Portuguese team until months and months later. The Gaspar and Martin Smith statements have always raised questions for me.

If you dont mind JT could you post a link or elaborate,, thanks 

[JT1959]

Regards the Gaspar statement I fail to understand why the Leicestershire Police would withhold information from the investigation team. The Martin Smith Statement is readily available within the published PJ Files. 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

7 minutes ago, haveyouheard 22 said:

If you dont mind JT could you post a link or elaborate,, thanks 

 

The link is further up this page.

[haveyouheard 22]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The link is further up this page.

Oops sorry , ill have look , thanks 

[AlphonseCapone]

6 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Or perhaps the professional gang of human traffickers who do this for a living sedated the children so they wouldn’t wake up? 

 

The whole group would have to had been in on the conspiracy, they’d have to have hid her body for weeks while it decomposed and then get rid off it all the while Police & media are crawling all over the place following their every move. 

 

I don’t think so. 

 

Yeah, they are a wee bit strange, yes they were negligent in their duty of care but if they had accidentally killed their child I think they would have tried to revive her and phoned an ambulance. 

 

The Portuguese police leaking lies to their own media which led to the vilification of the McCanns has proven to be a lot of shit. 

 

This is was the same force that beat a confession out of a woman to get her to confess to the murder of her daughter despite there being absolutely no dna evidence to suggest she had been killed. 

 

Good Post. 

 

5 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Not at all,

however nobody so far has come up with a credible alternative with even the faintest scrap of evidence.

Every time the Brit police produced anything it pointed straight at the Mccanns, as opposed to stranger abduction.

cadaver dogs, blood dogs, forensics, the palm print on the INSIDE of the window, snuggle cat triggering the dogs, kates clothes triggering the dog, the hire car

evidence of an abduction? not a thing

 

Sorry doc but your evidence list is poor at best;

 

5 items on your list centre on the dogs, which even their handler states only gives an indication of where to look and requires corroborating evidence of which there isn't any.

 

You've said the word forensics but that's a meaningless word on it's own, what do you mean? There's certainly no definitive forensics either way. 

 

Palm print on the inside. The issue with this is that there is no time stamp on a print. Could you prove in a court of law she didn't leave that print while opening a window on a previous day? 

 

Hire car? Again what do you mean? I assume the dogs being triggered. But can any one really say they believe the McCann's hid a body for 25 days before they hired this car? Where? How? Amongst the spotlight? 

 

I'm not saying they are innocent but there's not enough evidence to come close to convicting them in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt. There's a bizarre lack of evidence for any theory really. 

 

To me, we've 3 alternative explanations;

 

1. The parents are involved and hid her body for 25 days and removed it in this car rental. To me this is the most absurd. Where do you hide the body for this time period? And how do you move it with the media flare? It's especially suspicious the Portuguese fancied this theory when the lead investigator was involved in a previous case where a similar lie about hiding the body in a fridge was concocted. I'd rule this out completely.

 

2. The parents were involved and removed the body that night at some point. Who knows? The evidence doesn't say it did or didn't happen really though I think it's unlikely they hid a body so well in a foreign country that it's still never been recovered. Especially given the extensive searches carried out. The body needs to have been buried well or dumped in the middle of the sea. Neither are feasible for me. How are they not spotted? Where do they get the obvious tools required? 

 

3. She was abducted by a random weirdo or a co-ordinated group. Again, startling lack of physical evidence. Only circumstancial in the sense of apparent witnesses seeing some dodgy guys kicking about and going to doors. There are the reported break ins involving a man and British children which came from several independent families. This scenario is ridiculously brazent and fairly lucky to have got away so clean. Maybe that would point more towards planned. A sedated child would help, no reason the sedation aspect can't be true in this scenario too, still explains the twins not waking. 

 

For me, at this moment, as much as I find the McCann's weird and negligent in their duties as parents, in the absence of any real physical evidence, option 3 is the simplest imo. 

 

[indianajones]

They shouldve been charged with neglect regardless.

 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

 

 

2. The parents were involved and removed the body that night at some point. Who knows? The evidence doesn't say it did or didn't happen really though I think it's unlikely they hid a body so well in a foreign country that it's still never been recovered. Especially given the extensive searches carried out. The body needs to have been buried well or dumped in the middle of the sea. Neither are feasible for me. How are they not spotted? Where do they get the obvious tools required? 

 

 

 

The local priest gave the McCann's the keys to the church, thus allowing them to pray at anytime of the day or night whenever they wished to do so, which they did, in private in the dead of night and away from the glare of the media.

Coincidentally there also happened to be construction work being carried out at the church at the time when the McCann's were there.

I do not know what sort of searches were carried out by the Portugese police or if indeed they were allowed to by the church, sacred ground and all that.

Portugese police seemed to think that there was something odd about their night time visits, tho.

[pablo]

 

After watching that, I don't believe that they had anything to do with their kid's disappearance.

 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

9 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The local priest gave the McCann's the keys to the church, thus allowing them to pray at anytime of the day or night whenever they wished to do so, which they did, in private in the dead of night and away from the glare of the media.

Coincidentally there also happened to be construction work being carried out at the church at the time when the McCann's were there.

I do not know what sort of searches were carried out by the Portugese police or if indeed they were allowed to by the church, sacred ground and all that.

Portugese police seemed to think that there was something odd about their night time visits, tho.

 

At what point though? And where was the body in between this time? How do you get the body to the church from the apartment?

 

I'm not saying it's not a possibility but there's a lot of questions if that happened. I also believe the Portuguese police had them under surveillance though depends at what stage. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

13 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

At what point though? And where was the body in between this time? How do you get the body to the church from the apartment?

 

I'm not saying it's not a possibility but there's a lot of questions if that happened. I also believe the Portuguese police had them under surveillance though depends at what stage. 

 

IIRC from the news report from the time, it was within the first couple of days, maybe even a matter of hours, that they got the keys to the church.

And again IIRC they were observed driving to the church in the dead of night on at least one occasion before they handed the car back, remember the dogs detected the presence of a dead body in the boot of the hire car.

 

I know none of this proves anything, except perhaps warranting more questions, which as far as I know haven't been answered.

 

[rudi must stay]

1 hour ago, Greenbank2 said:

I have previously watched “the true story of Madeleine McCann - buried by the mainstream media” on youtube. Not as slick, but more expansive in its analysis of the evidence. In particular the abduction narrative. For me, it comes down to the following questions;

- why no evidence of abduction? Indeed there is evidence that the window could not have been used as an entry/exit point. Portuguese evidence from that police inspector who has talked alot of sensationalist guff blaming the McCanns

- why did the twins sleep throughout? sleeping pills, so they could enjoy their night (both doctors, they'd know what to give them) IMO

- why did Kate assume immediately that Madeleine had been abducted? because she was gone, Portugal is famous for abductions. Plus it is far more likely than 'she walked off', she had no reason to

- why the deep inconsistencies re. Who did what within the Tapas group? perhaps because they were all hammered

- are the blood dog and cadaver dog search results without reasonable doubt? again I think pretty much everything done by Portuguese TV has been done to go after the McCanns.

now there may be good explainatioins to all of these, but until these fundamental (and you would have thought easily dealt with) questions are answered, there is sufficient suspicion of the McCanns to question their involvement. 

 

[Carl Fredrickson]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

IIRC from the news report from the time, it was within the first couple of days, maybe even a matter of hours, that they got the keys to the church.

And again IIRC they were observed driving to the church in the dead of night on at least one occasion before they handed the car back, remember the dogs detected the presence of a dead body in the boot of the hire car.

 

I know none of this proves anything, except perhaps warranting more questions, which as far as I know haven't been answered.

 

 

IIRC the hire car that the dog identified as having trace "evidence" was only hired 25 days after Madeline disappeared. 

[AlphonseCapone]

6 hours ago, The Doc said:

http://thegaspersstatement.blogspot.com/2009/10/statement-of-dr-katherine-zacharias.html?m=1

 

For context...Been talking about the Netflix series on a WhatsApp group chat and someone linked the above. First time I’ve read it. Thought I’d share.

 

 

Just read this. Not sure what the purpose of things like this are. Basically a woman saw a man do a sexually provocative gesture, and felt it was aimed at a child, assumed he was a bit of a nonce after that. Her husband saw the gesture and didn't necessarily think it was aimed at Maddie. They later realised this family friend was on holiday with them when she went missing. So what? 

 

Basically, he done a provocative gesture on a holiday once that one person thinks was in reference to a child so ergo he might have killed and got rid of the body on this holiday? 

 

I can't stand this sort of unsubstantiated shite. Even the comments in that link. 

[AlphonseCapone]

18 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

IIRC from the news report from the time, it was within the first couple of days, maybe even a matter of hours, that they got the keys to the church.

And again IIRC they were observed driving to the church in the dead of night on at least one occasion before they handed the car back, remember the dogs detected the presence of a dead body in the boot of the hire car.

 

I know none of this proves anything, except perhaps warranting more questions, which as far as I know haven't been answered.

 

 

That car was hired 25 days after the disappearance though Jimbo, where do you hide a body in that time? 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

That car was hired 25 days after the disappearance though Jimbo, where do you hide a body in that time? 

 

Very true, yet Maddie's DNA was allegedly found in the boot, how can that be if she'd been missing for 20 odd days previously, unless of course there had been something of her's placed in the boot, which was then detected afterwards and then not fully explained as to why there was a time gap.

[Carl Fredrickson]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Very true, yet Maddie's DNA was allegedly found in the boot, how can that be if she'd been missing for 20 odd days previously, unless of course there had been something of her's placed in the boot, which was then detected afterwards and then not fully explained as to why there was a time gap.

 

I am not defending the McCanns BUT if I heard the explanation in the documentary right (happy to be corrected), the DNA test proved it was an 80% match with Madeline but as she shares DNA trates with her parents and siblings it couldnt be identified as being from Madeline. 

[AndyNic]

Have they ever taken a lie detector test?

 

Surely if you were being accused of murdering your own daughter (accidentally or otherwise) you'd offer to take a lie detector test and have it broadcast for the world to see to prove your innocence.

Edited March 18, 2019 by AndyNic

[Carl Fredrickson]

Just now, AndyNic said:

Have they ever taken a lie detector test?

 

Surely if you were being accused of murdering your own daughter (accidentally or otherwise) you'd offer to take a lie detector test and have it broadcast for the world to see to prove your innocence.

 

Not as far as I am aware. Are they reliable? Are they used in Portugal or the UK?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

I am not defending the McCanns BUT if I heard the explanation in the documentary right (happy to be corrected), the DNA test proved it was an 80% match with Madeline but as she shares DNA trates with her parents and siblings it couldnt be identified as being from Madeline. 

 

Not seen the documentary so can't comment on that, however the British police did say that the DNA was of low quality and they had concerns of how it had been collected.

[AndyNic]

2 minutes ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

Not as far as I am aware. Are they reliable? Are they used in Portugal or the UK?

 

Here's an article on it from the BBC

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45736631

[Carl Fredrickson]

4 minutes ago, AndyNic said:

 

Here's an article on it from the BBC

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-45736631

 

Cheers

[Cruyff Turn]

12 minutes ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

I am not defending the McCanns BUT if I heard the explanation in the documentary right (happy to be corrected), the DNA test proved it was an 80% match with Madeline but as she shares DNA trates with her parents and siblings it couldnt be identified as being from Madeline. 

Everyone on this board has a 99.9% DNA match to Madeline McCann, so 80% isn’t very good.

 

The Portuguese Police claimed the samples of blood in the car were a 100% match to MM and fluids were a minimum 80% to MM but would be a full match after further testing, which the Police then leaked to the media in Portugal and was then reported around the world as fact. This was actually a lie as each sample was inconsistent with MM. 

[hughesie27]

No convinced they done it like.

 

 

[bajthejambo]

I doubt that the parents had a hand in her abduction and/or death.

 

I do wonder what they were actually up to the night she went missing? From the accounts given at the time, it sounded as if they were hiding something? They changed their statements about how often they were checking and who was going where. The patio door being unlocked and one of the other men popping his head in the door but not actually looking for the children seems bizarre too. That would suggest to me that he wasn't there to look for the kids.

 

 

 

[Better call Saul]

Is it worth watching the whole 8 episode ? Some of the BBC documentarys were pretty detailed I can't see myself watching all about MM again. 

[AlphonseCapone]

2 hours ago, Ferris Bueller said:

Is it worth watching the whole 8 episode ? Some of the BBC documentarys were pretty detailed I can't see myself watching all about MM again. 

 

I'd say so, it goes into a lot of angles. Including some of the dodgy companies that came along promising to find her etc. A fair amount in it I didn't know. 

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, Ferris Bueller said:

Is it worth watching the whole 8 episode ? Some of the BBC documentarys were pretty detailed I can't see myself watching all about MM again. 

You will learn as much as far as the facts and theories are concerned by reading this thread. The documentary is also a bit manipulative with for example repeated footage of the "cadaver dogs" convincing you that this was evidence, only for the whole thing to be pretty much debunked later. But you will be able to make better judgment of some of the characters involved by seeing and hearing them.

Not so the McCanns, who remain an enigma. I am not sure I have heard either  say the words "I will never forgive myself". For 99% of parents in these circumstances I think this would be their overwhelming feeling which would follow them for the rest of their lives. Perhaps they appealed to their god and he performed that act for them.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Francis Albert

[hughesie27]

Brian Kennedy's son came across as a total opportunist of on a jolly at his Dad's expense playing detective for a few weeks.