Maddy Mccann

[NANOJAMBO]

15 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

They made a serious mistake (one I bet loads of parents make without consequence) and were punished in the worst possible way. I really doubt it's unsafe to leave your kids with them for a period of time. 

They made a choice - they knew before they went out there that the place had no babysitting service and they knew there was  a very good reason why there was no babysitting service. But they used that to try and beat the company down on the price.  Some of the group took baby monitors , the Mccanns did not.  Those are not mistakes. Those are choices. 

[Cade]

4 hours ago, Swanny17 said:

More public funds being spent on this case. 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43550383

 

A slap in the face to every other family with a missing child.

http://missingpeople.org.uk/help-us-find.html

Edited March 27, 2018 by Cade

[Gorgiewave]

Those preferring Madeleine McCann be searched for privately, using private funds, will be the same people who think it's a scandal that food banks, a private initiative, exist, and replace the work of the state in that area.

 

Or, perhaps they'd rather nobody looked for her?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Gorgiewave

[Adam Murray]

Just a quick glance down that list in the link by Cade, it's astonishing as to how many of these people missing are apparently foreign.

 

Come to a new country to start a new life, then just disappear.

 

Terrible for all families who have a loved on who just disappears. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

They made a choice - they knew before they went out there that the place had no babysitting service and they knew there was  a very good reason why there was no babysitting service. But they used that to try and beat the company down on the price.  Some of the group took baby monitors , the Mccanns did not.  Those are not mistakes. Those are choices. 

 

Mistake- an act or judgement that is misguided or wrong

I don't know what distinction you feel you're making, but those choices were undoubtedly mistakes.

 

[Der Kaiser]

 

With the modern advancements in crime investigation (DNA, profiling etc) what are people possibly thinking will have been overlooked or missed?

 

The poor wee lass is dead. It really is time to cease funding this.

 

 

[Swanny17]

50 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

Those preferring Madeleine McCann be searched for privately, using private funds, will be the same people who think it's a scandal that food banks, a private initiative, exist, and replace the work of the state in that area.

 

Or, perhaps they'd rather nobody looked for her?

 

What a strange post. My own feelings are that the amount of public money being spent on looking for Madeleine is not matched for other missing persons who should be entitled to exactly the same resources.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

38 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Mistake- an act or judgement that is misguided or wrong

I don't know what distinction you feel you're making, but those choices were undoubtedly mistakes.

 

My point is quite simple and i thought I'd made it clear but I'll try again. They knew what they were getting into before they went there, they even tried to use it to their advantage to get some money off the holiday. They chose the resort because it was part of a chain they had used before and  because that chain provided something they needed/wanted/valued - a baby sitting service. Except they were told before they went there this service was not provided in Portugal because the place was not suitable due to its size/layout. So, knowing all that , they still decided not to take  a baby monitor (even though their friends did) and they allegedly left 3 kids under 4 years of age in the same apartment, every night.  Whatever I think of their actions , they have suffered a terrible loss. But i wouldn't put it down to a mistake. 

[Gorgiewave]

12 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

 

What a strange post. My own feelings are that the amount of public money being spent on looking for Madeleine is not matched for other missing persons who should be entitled to exactly the same resources.

 

So you're in favour of everybody getting Madeleine McCann levels of money?

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

They made a choice - they knew before they went out there that the place had no babysitting service and they knew there was  a very good reason why there was no babysitting service. But they used that to try and beat the company down on the price.  Some of the group took baby monitors , the Mccanns did not.  Those are not mistakes. Those are choices. 

My recollection from reports and inquiries at the time is that the resort offered a free baby sitting service. I don't understand your reference to the very good reason why there was none.

[NANOJAMBO]

17 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

With the modern advancements in crime investigation (DNA, profiling etc) what are people possibly thinking will have been overlooked or missed?

 

The poor wee lass is dead. It really is time to cease funding this.

 

 

The DNA evidence is compelling and would be sufficient to be admitted in a court of law here. Problem is the Portuguese require a higher burden of proof (if that's the right phrase) so they can't use it. A friend of a family member worked on the case and in his words, "she's dead". 

[XB52]

2 hours ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

They made a serious mistake (one I bet loads of parents make without consequence) and were punished in the worst possible way. I really doubt it's unsafe to leave your kids with them for a period of time. 

they made that mistake 3 nights running, leaving their very young children alone while refusing to pay for a child watching service. They should have been charged with, at the very least, child neglect if not abuse. I do not have one iota of sympathy for them. I do have huge sympathy for their 3 children though. 

[XB52]

22 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

 

What a strange post. My own feelings are that the amount of public money being spent on looking for Madeleine is not matched for other missing persons who should be entitled to exactly the same resources.

 

he's just pushing his right-wing agenda, like he does on every thread. Would be nowhere near this thread if the parents were working class. Mind you, there is absolutely no way that funds would still be being found to search for anyone if that had been the case.

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

My recollection from reports and inquiries at the time is that the resort offered a free baby sitting service. I don't understand your reference to the very good reason why there was none.

Ok, let me clarify as i haven't made myself clear here. There was a free baby sitting service - BUT you had to take your kids there and collect them by a set time (10.30 IIRC). On top of that , there was a paid for service (by the hour) where nannies could come to the accommodation. What said parties were expecting was a service where people walked around the resort listening at the door (Butlins did this - in the 1960s - i remember it well). They were clear in using the resort for this very reason and had had the same experience in a previous holiday with this company.  But it wasn't provided in Portugal because the resort is huge - inferring the "listeners" couldn't easily get around the place ( I don't recall the precise explanation given) . The Mccanns  themselves complained about  the same  distance issues, apparently it was too much effort for them to even walk to the restaurant for breakfast in the morning. 

[AlimOzturk]

When I go on holiday with my Kid he is never away from my wife or my side. Even when there is a kids club or similar I am still watching hin and the people who are running it like a Hawk. 

 

I just can't fathom how doctors, extremely well educated people could even be so stupid to actually leave their kids in a country with already high abductions alone. 

 

It beggars belief and that is the first thing that always comes to mind when I think about this case. I just do not think that such well educated people could be so careless and stupid and hence my suspicion. And why just take the one child? 

Edited March 27, 2018 by AlimOzturk

[Swanny17]

19 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

So you're in favour of everybody getting Madeleine McCann levels of money?

 

If this case is entitled to that level of public funds, then shouldn't everyone in the same situation be entitled to the same resources? Wouldn't you expect the same if you were in this situation?

 

Of course if that were to happen, then the country would be bankrupt, so perhaps we should stop throwing money at this lost cause.  It's quite clear that because of the McCann's class in society, more money is being thrown at this than any working class family could ever expect, and that is wrong.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Swanny17 said:

 

If this case is entitled to that level of public funds, then shouldn't everyone in the same situation be entitled to the same resources? Wouldn't you expect the same if you were in this situation?

 

Of course if that were to happen, then the country would be bankrupt, so perhaps we should stop throwing money at this lost cause.  It's quite clear that because of the McCann's class in society, more money is being thrown at this than any working class family could ever expect, and that is wrong.

Have you heard them speak - these are not establishment figures. They had connections and still do* - a "journo" at the Sun is a personal friend of one of them and was the first to break the news  this week that we're still flushing money down the toilet in continuing the "review". 

* I don't believe the conspiracy/cover up theories, only that they knew who to get to and how to do it. 

[Gorgiewave]

14 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

 

If this case is entitled to that level of public funds, then shouldn't everyone in the same situation be entitled to the same resources? Wouldn't you expect the same if you were in this situation?

 

Of course if that were to happen, then the country would be bankrupt, so perhaps we should stop throwing money at this lost cause.  It's quite clear that because of the McCann's class in society, more money is being thrown at this than any working class family could ever expect, and that is wrong.

 

No, the country would not be bankrupt.

 

I expect to see Swanny17 aff kickback campaigning for increased funding for missing children searches on the TV gieing laldy, doing JKB proud.

[Francis Albert]

57 minutes ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

With the modern advancements in crime investigation (DNA, profiling etc) what are people possibly thinking will have been overlooked or missed?

 

The poor wee lass is dead. It really is time to cease funding this.

 

 

There is an alternative if more remote possibility. That she has been adopted by a family that knows about the responsibilities of having young children.

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

When I go on holiday with my Kid he is never away from my wife or my side. Even when there is a kids club or similar I am still watching hin and the people who are running it like a Hawk. 

 

I just can't fathom how doctors, extremely well educated people could even be so stupid to actually leave their kids in a country with already high abductions alone. 

 

It beggars belief and that is the first thing that always comes to mind when I think about this case. I just do not think that such well educated people could be so careless and stupid and hence my suspicion. And why just take the one child? 

You should meet some Dr's

Many of them are self interested narcissistic twats 

[theshed]

On the subject of getting more funding I can’t work out how it’s possible after this long and not a hope in hell of any break through in this case that they acquire more money 

 

Not the same kind of thing but there’s the army guy (Corrie) 

that went missing and had his case handed over to the cold case team this week after a year or so yet they still chuck money at the Mccanns 

 

 

[Elmore]

3 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

My point is quite simple and i thought I'd made it clear but I'll try again. They knew what they were getting into before they went there, they even tried to use it to their advantage to get some money off the holiday. They chose the resort because it was part of a chain they had used before and  because that chain provided something they needed/wanted/valued - a baby sitting service. Except they were told before they went there this service was not provided in Portugal because the place was not suitable due to its size/layout. So, knowing all that , they still decided not to take  a baby monitor (even though their friends did) and they allegedly left 3 kids under 4 years of age in the same apartment, every night.  Whatever I think of their actions , they have suffered a terrible loss. But i wouldn't put it down to a mistake. 

The night she went missing wasn't the first one that their kids had been left alone?  If that's true it isn't a mistake it's stupidity. 

[Elmore]

47 minutes ago, theshed said:

On the subject of getting more funding I can’t work out how it’s possible after this long and not a hope in hell of any break through in this case that they acquire more money 

 

Not the same kind of thing but there’s the army guy (Corrie) 

that went missing and had his case handed over to the cold case team this week after a year or so yet they still chuck money at the Mccanns 

 

 

I saw the Corrie guy's family on TV this morning about this.  Hearing about the McCann family getting more money is going to feel like a slap in the face.  

[Tommy Brown]

When I saw the thread title, I wanted to see good news.

Sadly in this case, good news would also include finding her remains.

 

More money. Fail to see the point.

It's very difficult not to believe the parent's are responsible for this.

But for them to dispose of her body so well in a foreign place, I cannot run with it.

[John Findlay]

26 minutes ago, Elmore said:

I saw the Corrie guy's family on TV this morning about this.  Hearing about the McCann family getting more money is going to feel like a slap in the face.  

To a point. Corrie is an adult who was serving in the RAF. Regarded a responsible adult. Maddie McCann was/still is a child. In saying that no other public funds should be spent looking for her.

[shaun.lawson]

13 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

More money. Fail to see the point.

 

As the link mentions, a critical line of inquiry is still being followed by the British and Portuguese police. It would be rather odd to just arbitrarily cut off funds for that line of inquiry.

 

In the meantime, should, perish the thought, any of my friends who have children ever endure the horrors of what the McCanns have, I must be sure to remind them not to publicise their case or make continued appeals. Because:

 

1. This would be to prioritise their disappeared loved ones over others, which is clearly shameful. They should shut up and know their place.

 

2. My friends are educated and - this bit's truly disgusting - middle class. The lowest of the low, in other words, for which they should rot in hell forever.

 

         

[rudi must stay]

7 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

This case is colder than Kate McCann's personality. 

 

Unless something significant happens then why waste any more money. 

 

 

The Dad is even worse. Couple of humourless, upright Brits, and there's plenty around. I don't think they're hiding anything. The BBC did a great documentary a few months ago, a couple of shifty characters interviewed

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Elmore said:

The night she went missing wasn't the first one that their kids had been left alone?  If that's true it isn't a mistake it's stupidity. 

Some debate about that. Every night of the holiday there was one adult missing from the group for one reason or another - except for the night of the abduction IIRC. A problem for the Mccanns is that for the abduction to have taken place (for which there is  still no evidence after 10 years) they had to have left the kids alone - and AFAIK they never said the kids were left alone on that night only.  So, kids left alone every night BUT they had a checking regime* that meant getting up from the table every 20 mins to walk back to the apartment to check. Their defence was  , their frequency of checking was more frequent  than what they'd seen on their holiday the previous year (very canny of them) where there was a listening service. 

 

Except they never had a regime because  parents didn't check on children other than their own - apart from the night of the "abduction". 

 

They wanted to be hung for neglect , so to speak, as that created the window for an abduction - but they could also fight the neglect accusations (which they did) on the basis that the holiday company 's listening service (for the previous year)  wasn't as frequent as that put in place by the Mccanns themselves. Problem with that theory was they kept changing their story and the police never believed a word of it. 

 

Of course a lot of this didn't become public knowledge until the Portuguese police  released the investigation files which laid bare the lies being fed to the UK public and media and the contradictions/changes  in their statements.

[Elmore]

35 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

As the link mentions, a critical line of inquiry is still being followed by the British and Portuguese police. It would be rather odd to just arbitrarily cut off funds for that line of inquiry.

 

In the meantime, should, perish the thought, any of my friends who have children ever endure the horrors of what the McCanns have, I must be sure to remind them not to publicise their case or make continued appeals. Because:

 

1. This would be to prioritise their disappeared loved ones over others, which is clearly shameful. They should shut up and know their place.

 

2. My friends are educated and - this bit's truly disgusting - middle class. The lowest of the low, in other words, for which they should rot in hell forever.

 

         

Your last paragraph isn't fair. It's the reaction there would've been if it had been a lower class family who had (it seems on continuos nights) left there kids.  No one is denying that they are going through hell.  It's the media double standards that didnt help.  You never heard anything about neglect.  This would've been pounced on if they were working or lower class.  

[Swanny17]

1 hour ago, Elmore said:

The night she went missing wasn't the first one that their kids had been left alone?  If that's true it isn't a mistake it's stupidity. 

 

During the Crimewatch special, Kate McCann admitted they had been left alone on previous nights and on one occasion Madeleine had got very upset after waking up alone. Kate and Gerry McCanns response to that was to “take a mental note”. No, not “let’s not leave them alone again” but a “mental note”. Absolute scumbags.

[rudi must stay]

1 hour ago, Elmore said:

The night she went missing wasn't the first one that their kids had been left alone?  If that's true it isn't a mistake it's stupidity. 

 

Why not stay in as well. When they talk about their kids, they seem totally detached and have a lack of any warmth towards them, poor parents IMO

[Elmore]

1 minute ago, Swanny17 said:

 

During the Crimewatch special, Kate McCann admitted they had been left alone on previous nights and on one occasion Madeleine had got very upset after waking up alone. Kate and Gerry McCanns response to that was to “take a mental note”. No, not “let’s not leave them alone again” but a “mental note”. Absolute scumbags.

They would've got a lot more public sympathy if they took some responsibility. Everybody makes mistakes. It's the guilty of nothing angle that doesn't help. That and the double standards if it had happened to a working class family on a caravan holiday  

[shaun.lawson]

6 minutes ago, Elmore said:

Your last paragraph isn't fair. It's the reaction there would've been if it had been a lower class family who had (it seems on continuos nights) left there kids.  No one is denying that they are going through hell.  It's the media double standards that didnt help.  You never heard anything about neglect.  This would've been pounced on if they were working or lower class.  

 

Strawman. No evidence for this whatsoever. I'd suggest the reason Maddie's case has had so much coverage is little or nothing to do with class, much more that Kate and Gerry are effective at publicising their daughter's case.

[peter_hmfc]

1 minute ago, Elmore said:

They would've got a lot more public sympathy if they took some responsibility. Everybody makes mistakes. It's the guilty of nothing angle that doesn't help. That and the double standards if it had happened to a working class family on a caravan holiday  

 

There's "Everybody makes mistakes", and then there's "Leaving your children home alone in a foreign country while you piss off for a piss up".

[Elmore]

6 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

There's "Everybody makes mistakes", and then there's "Leaving your children home alone in a foreign country while you piss off for a piss up".

I was being kind to them. That wasn't a mistake, it was pure neglect that they have got away with.  If they had hired someone to look after the kids and that person had decided to leave the kids for a while, the McCanns would've been screaming for criminal charges

[felix]

13 minutes ago, Elmore said:

Your last paragraph isn't fair. It's the reaction there would've been if it had been a lower class family who had (it seems on continuos nights) left there kids.  No one is denying that they are going through hell.  It's the media double standards that didnt help.  You never heard anything about neglect.  This would've been pounced on if they were working or lower class.  

You do know a private prosecution was taken out against the McCann's , shortly after she disappeared - on grounds of neglect under the Childrens and Young Persons Act  -  widely reported at the time ?

[Elmore]

10 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Strawman. No evidence for this whatsoever. I'd suggest the reason Maddie's case has had so much coverage is little or nothing to do with class, much more that Kate and Gerry are effective at publicising their daughter's case.

No one can blame them for being extremely effective at keeping this in the public domain. It's the ignoring their own failings in this that have people thinking it's double standards.  A skint family at a caravan park would've been hung, drawn and quartered.  

[peter_hmfc]

5 minutes ago, Elmore said:

I was being kind to them. That wasn't a mistake, it was pure neglect that they have got away with.  If they had hired someone to look after the kids and that person had decided to leave the kids for a while, the McCanns would've been screaming for criminal charges

 

[Elmore]

4 minutes ago, felix said:

You do know a private prosecution was taken out against the McCann's , shortly after she disappeared - on grounds of neglect under the Childrens and Young Persons Act  -  widely reported at the time ?

I hadn't heard about that. What was the reasons it wasn't successful?

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, Elmore said:

No one can blame them for being extremely effective at keeping this in the public domain. It's the ignoring their own failings in this that have people thinking it's double standards.  A skint family at a caravan park would've been hung, drawn and quartered.  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/06/nick-cave-to-kate-mccann-time-judged-parents-less

[felix]

Just now, Elmore said:

I hadn't heard about that. What was the reasons it wasn't successful?

It failed at the first hurdle, on  grounds that  UK courts have no jurisdiction over what happened.

Even if you look at UK law and negligence ; if the courts could have ruled,  they weren't guilty..

 

 

[AlimOzturk]

4 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/06/nick-cave-to-kate-mccann-time-judged-parents-less

 

Are you related to the McCanns or something? Whilst you your argument that they probably didn't have anything to do with is most probably correct your staunch defence of them is stranger than Kate's reference to Maddie's mutilated geniltalia. Couple of weirdos they are. 

 

Feel sorry for Maddie and her Siblings more than anyone. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by AlimOzturk

[shaun.lawson]

5 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Are you related to the McCanns or something? Whilst you your argument that they probably didn't have anything to do with is sound tour staunch defence of them is stranger than Kate's reference to Maddie's mutilated geniltalia. Couple of weirdos. 

 

Any parents whose child is abducted and, in all likelihood, murdered, have already been through quite enough - and already have a life sentence. I have no interest in continuing to rake them over the coals, and wonder why on Earth others do.

 

The answer to that question is, more than likely, contained in the article I linked to... and is essentially why online groupthink exists. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[AlimOzturk]

2 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Any parents whose child is abducted and, in all likelihood, murdered, has already been through quite enough - and already have a life sentence. I have no interest in continuing to rake them over the coals, and wonder why on Earth others do.

 

The answer to that question is, more than likely, contained in the article I linked to... and is essentially why online groupthink exists. 

 

Aii...they are hurting badly right enough. Making absolute fortunes from their daughters death. Who hires a publicist and expert spin doctor right after learning of their daughters disappearance?  Countless TV,  newspaper and radio interviews, Documentaries and books. Their attitude and demeanor in the close aftermath didn't seem like grieving parents. Gerry McCann was out seeing playing tennis soon after ffs. They refused to cooperate with the Portuguese investigation. 

 

You bash on defending these people but the fault lies with them. Whether they did the deed or not and their attitude since has been nothing short of discraceful. 

[Elmore]

12 minutes ago, felix said:

It failed at the first hurdle, on  grounds that  UK courts have no jurisdiction over what happened.

Even if you look at UK law and negligence ; if the courts could have ruled,  they weren't guilty..

 

 

Thanks. 

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Aii...they are hurting badly right enough. Making absolute fortunes from their daughters death. Who hires a publicist and expert spin doctor right after learning of their daughters disappearance?  Countless TV,  newspaper and radio interviews, Documentaries and books. Their attitude and demeanor in the close aftermath didn't seem like grieving parents. Gerry McCann was out seeing playing tennis soon after ffs. They refused to cooperate with the Portuguese investigation. 

 

You bash on defending these people but the fault lies with them. Whether they did the deed or not and their attitude since has been nothing short of discraceful. 

 

Dreadful post. It's like McCann bingo. Those who point a finger at someone else - especially as incessantly as so many do on here in this case - have four fingers pointing back at themselves.

 

Or, to put it another way:

 

 

 

 

 

[Norm]

I think the biggest shock in opening this thread isn't that more money has been spent. 

 

It's the fact that Lawson is back! 

 

Welcome home, Shaun! 

[felix]

2 minutes ago, Elmore said:

Thanks. 

..no worries;

look forward to when the " working class" or "skint family from a caravan park" argument comes to an end.

If we're all not  equal in the eyes of the law , it's time to pack up.

[jambo1961]

18 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Aii...they are hurting badly right enough. Making absolute fortunes from their daughters death. Who hires a publicist and expert spin doctor right after learning of their daughters disappearance?  Countless TV,  newspaper and radio interviews, Documentaries and books. Their attitude and demeanor in the close aftermath didn't seem like grieving parents. Gerry McCann was out seeing playing tennis soon after ffs. They refused to cooperate with the Portuguese investigation. 

 

You bash on defending these people but the fault lies with them. Whether they did the deed or not and their attitude since has been nothing short of discraceful. 

Perfectly summed up IMO

 

[Elmore]

It does come across as inverted snobbery. You can understand why people feel like that. Though, is that the McCanns fault or the press?  In some peoples eyes they got an easy time on the neglect part.  If not neglect, leaving the kids alone for more than one night is extremely irresponsible.  I personally feel it's nothing but neglect.