The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Shanks]

She should not have allowed herself to get into the position of spokeswoman on this subject. Someone who was on the board when this all happened should have had the balls to step forward. Doncaster himself for example.

 

Ann, sorry love, but the big boys have played you here and out manoeuvred you.

 

Apart from which you're now part of the problem and complicit in everything that organisation does both in the past and the future.

 

Correct. Its really disappointing but I can't say I'm surprised.

[John Findlay]

The thing is that five years on there is still nothing in the rules of the SPFL that specifically deals with liquidated clubs, other than the general insolvency events provisions.

 

There remains no mechanism for clubs to do a Sevco shuffle, other than "Board discretion"

If I am reading this correctly.

Alloa Athletic do a Rangers 1873. Then the SPFL board can say tough you are now in the North Lanarkshire district league and it's you own fault. Tough shit.

Sevco do the same as Rangers 1873. It will be how can we help you?

[Niemi]

It's quite extraordinary how little comment there has been in the papers (apart from the ridiculous Q&A in the DR), considering the size of the story here.

 

I really believe it's all about fear of retribution, and intimidation, coupled with a little bit freemasonry.

 

Doncaster and Regan may not want to be in this position but are too scared to do anything.

 

Wasn't there a rumour that one of them (I'm guessing Regan) had applied for a job in English cricket recently and had been kb'd ?

I think the lack of comment in the media is probably reflective of the size of the story... ie not actually big. Tax avoidance schemes are rife throughout the business world, including football. So a scheme was found not to work, big deal. I'm afraid it's only Scottish football fans who are making a big deal of this

[John Findlay]

I think the lack of comment in the media is probably reflective of the size of the story... ie not actually big. Tax avoidance schemes are rife throughout the business world, including football. So a scheme was found not to work, big deal. I'm afraid it's only Scottish football fans who are making a big deal of this

Long may we continue to do so.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

I think the lack of comment in the media is probably reflective of the size of the story... ie not actually big. Tax avoidance schemes are rife throughout the business world, including football. So a scheme was found not to work, big deal. I'm afraid it's only Scottish football fans who are making a big deal of this

Not actually big? $#!te post. It's only Scottish football fans making a big deal because it's in Scotland.

I wonder how Italian football fans would act if say this was Juventus cheating. Oh yeah that's right. I don't have to imagine how Italians would react to something along the same lines.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Matt Leslie's blog is highly critical of Ann Budge in her role as an SPFL Board member in this piece.  I agree with him.

 

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/where-did-it-go-wrong-ann

 

I said it earlier that it looks like she has been seduced by the (metaphorical) blazer. I also said at the time of her initial appointment that I would have preferred she just concentrated 1005 on HMFC as she'll "pissing in the wind" trying to change those corrupt *******s at Hampden. Really disappointed with her over this but only this as re our club she's doing a pretty bang up job as far as I'm concerned.

[brunoatemyhamster]

"DJ" yesterday :

 

Derek Johnstone: The SPFL have drawn a line under Rangers EBTs and now Scottish football must do the same

 

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/15437942.Derek_Johnstone__The_SPFL_have_drawn_a_line_under_Rangers_EBTs_and_now_Scottish_football_must_do_the_same/?

Any chance people could copy and paste these articles? Your only bumping their figures by clicking it. Same with the Daily Ranger and The Scum Scotland.

Edited July 28, 2017 by brunoatemyhamster

[jambovambo]

Any chance people could copy and paste these articles? Your only bumping their figures by clicking it. Same with the Daily Ranger and The Scum Scotland.

I thought we were supposed to provide the link ?

[Mikey1874]

got to say that's bang on the money for me.

The Spartans and Livingston examples are very valid. SPFL and SFA should explain the difference.

[Benny Factor]

"DJ" yesterday :

 

Derek Johnstone: The SPFL have drawn a line under Rangers EBTs and now Scottish football must do the same

 

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/15437942.Derek_Johnstone__The_SPFL_have_drawn_a_line_under_Rangers_EBTs_and_now_Scottish_football_must_do_the_same/?

DJ is too thick to realise that articles like this have the opposite effect.

 

All they do is make fans of other clubs even more determined to see Rangers suffer.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

I said it earlier that it looks like she has been seduced by the (metaphorical) blazer. I also said at the time of her initial appointment that I would have preferred she just concentrated 1005 on HMFC as she'll "pissing in the wind" trying to change those corrupt *******s at Hampden. Really disappointed with her over this but only this as re our club she's doing a pretty bang up job as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yup, she has just become Stewart Milne in heels.

[Hagar the Horrible]

DJ:

 

As I have said, we all need to move on. That won?t be easy for some Rangers fans either but they will always focus on their club first and foremost.

 

It is impossible for us to move on because your club cheated on a scale never before seen in any sport at any level, and it was swept under the carpet!

 

Rangers have done more for the lower leagues of Scottish football than any other club has in the history of our game as the supporters have travelled up and down the country in their thousands.

The clubs have benefitted, the towns have benefitted, the local businesses have benefitted and they have helped every team from League Two to the Championship.

 

Shame the people of Manchester then?????

[Hagar the Horrible]

the Lord Nimmo Smith commission was held and Rangers were fined ?250,000.

 

Still unpaid though???? did it ever??? anybody?

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Matt Leslie's blog is highly critical of Ann Budge in her role as an SPFL Board member in this piece. I agree with him.

 

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/where-did-it-go-wrong-ann

He is spot on. She won't see another penny of my money - I'm done with corrupt Scottish Football Edited July 28, 2017 by Toxteth O'Grady

[Footballfirst]

the Lord Nimmo Smith commission was held and Rangers were fined ?250,000.

 

Still unpaid though???? did it ever??? anybody?

It was paid at the end of the 2015/16 season when ?286k of the prize money for winning the championship was withheld by the SPFL.

 

The following information is from Rangers 2016 Accounts.

 

 

 

4. NON-RECURRING ITEMS

In 2012, the SPL raised proceedings against The Rangers Football Club plc (Oldco) in relation to the use of EBTs and following a hearing in February 2013 a fine of ?250,000 and costs of ?150,000 were levied against Oldco. As part of the agreement to allow Rangers to participate in Scottish Football, there was a clause inserted where it was agreed that Rangers would become liable and responsible for the imposition of any sanctions by the SPL for any breach of SPL Rules and or articles by Oldco/Rangers FC (i.e. the ?250,000 fine). The Club believed that the SPFL had, through documents and actions, waived all and any right it may have had to insist upon payment under the clause, thereby holding the Club harmless in relation to the sanctions. This was disputed by the SPFL.

 

Within the current SPFL rules there is a provision (known as the offset rule) whereby if any amounts are due to the SPFL, the Board of the SPFL are entitled to withhold amounts due to the Club up to the value of the amount outstanding. The Board of the SPFL determined that it would impose the offset rule to recover the ?250,000 fine from the Club.

 

As a result of this decision, the Club invoked Article 99 of the SFA Articles seeking a determination by an Arbitral Tribunal appointed by the SFA that the sum was not due to the SPFL. The tribunal was held in October 2015 and found in favour of the SPFL and as such the Club was liable to pay the fine plus associated costs. The Club duly paid the SPFL and the total paid during the year amounted to ?286,000 and has been disclosed as a non-recurring cost in the financial statements.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Footballfirst

[Taffin]

Matt Leslie's blog is highly critical of Ann Budge in her role as an SPFL Board member in this piece. I agree with him.

 

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/where-did-it-go-wrong-ann

Agreed. Oddly though that article is very scathing of Romanov despite him clamouring for a reaction similar to the one he likely would have given. The 'conspiracies' Romanov spoke of have proven to be nothing of the sort; instead he was spot on in recognising the corruption in our game.

 

It takes one to know one; Romanov had many faults but calling out our game for what it is was not one of them

[Riccarton3]

Agreed. Oddly though that article is very scathing of Romanov despite him clamouring for a reaction similar to the one he likely would have given. The 'conspiracies' Romanov spoke of have proven to be nothing of the sort; instead he was spot on in recognising the corruption in our game.

 

It takes one to know one; Romanov had many faults but calling out our game for what it is was not one of them

Also, all I see in Budge's initial quotes is - the game needs to improve. Does this qualify as white knight territory? Just a blogger finding an easy target. Probably easier than targeting Celtic for their curiously passive input. Edited July 28, 2017 by Riccarton3

[Francis Albert]

Agreed. Oddly though that article is very scathing of Romanov despite him clamouring for a reaction similar to the one he likely would have given. The 'conspiracies' Romanov spoke of have proven to be nothing of the sort; instead he was spot on in recognising the corruption in our game.

It takes one to know one; Romanov had many faults but calling out our game for what it is was not one of them

agreed. Vlad may have spoken extravagantly and often incomprehensibly but in essence he got the scottish game spot on in a way no scottish owner or chairman has done or been brave or reckless enough to say so.

[Taffin]

Also, all I see in Budge's initial quotes is - the game needs to improve. Does this qualify as white knight territory? Just a blogger finding an easy target. Probably easier than targeting Celtic for their curiously passive input.

I don't think so. She placed herself up on that pedestal when she arrived and having got into position to follow it through with actions has instead opted to do nothing. She's fair game in this instance to tale flak.

[Deevers]

I don't think so. She placed herself up on that pedestal when she arrived and having got into position to follow it through with actions has instead opted to do nothing. She's fair game in this instance to tale flak.

 

Be interesting to see what her repost is to this. i just get the feeling that she has been taken for a mug by allowing herself to be set up as spokesperson for this.

[Riccarton3]

I don't think so. She placed herself up on that pedestal when she arrived and having got into position to follow it through with actions has instead opted to do nothing. She's fair game in this instance to tale flak.

Did she say she was going to do anything or was it more hope and aspiration? You don't have to be a huge cynic to realise then and now that change in Scottish football is not straightforward. Unless you explore the context, as Leslie fails to do, you can't get a fair assessment of Budge's apparent failure.

[DETTY29]

Inside SPFL just tweetef some daft 'Celtic family' individual crowd funding towards a judicial review.

 

For this to work, folk need to keep their powder dry and organise it properly with the correct level of cooperation across many groups / clubs and a key figure head.

 

Won't be easy mind.

 

Put your head above the parapet and your in for a rough towards awful time of it.

Edited July 28, 2017 by DETTY29

[Taffin]

Did she say she was going to do anything or was it more hope and aspiration? You don't have to be a huge cynic to realise then and now that change in Scottish football is not straightforward. Unless you explore the context, as Leslie fails to do, you can't get a fair assessment of Budge's apparent failure.

Her actions of joining the board and putting herself into a position of influence and then doing the opposite of what she said means even if she had only hoped change could happen she has now played a part in ensuring it wont.

[Riccarton3]

Her actions of joining the board and putting herself into a position of influence and then doing the opposite of what she said means even if she had only hoped change could happen she has now played a part in ensuring it wont.

She would need backing. What she has said in the past is there is a culture of self interest. How do you erase that?

[Taffin]

She would need backing. What she has said in the past is there is a culture of self interest. How do you erase that?

She would need backing, yes. Just because it is hard or you'll fail doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

 

A good starting place to erase self-interest is to not partake in it.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Saw this this morning in Salem MA. Some past Rangers players may need real EBT's soon.

[Mikey1874]

Be interesting to see what her repost is to this. i just get the feeling that she has been taken for a mug by allowing herself to be set up as spokesperson for this.

It is just possible the independent review they want could be the means to real change

 

But that's not clear yet

Edited July 28, 2017 by Mikey1874

[CJGJ]

There is going to be no change to the past yet some are still dreaming there will be.

 

There will be no stripping of titles, there will be no more fines imposed on Rangers/Sevco or whatever name people want to use, so just accept it...vent your spleen when Mr Doncaster asks for your comments but it will not impact on what

has happened.

 

We know mistakes were made and some people have seemingly got off scot-free...Stewart Milne anyone

 

Any review will be about rules in the future and only implemented when the authorities pass those changes.

 

Taking out your anger on our owner is just sad and an example of people who are so caught up in this situation they act like sheep and are ending up following fans groups from other clubs such as the Green Brigade.

Taking the moral high ground is fine for others it seems but there are few posting on this subject who can claim that

ground yet think our owner should do so without thought to any consequences.

[Deevers]

It is just possible the independent review they want could be the means to real change

But that's not clear yet

That will depend on what it's terms of reference are. I just hope that this not just another stalling device, hoping that by announcing this the fire will have been dampened. I can well imagine that there are some inside the SPFL that won't want any change from the status quo.

[hectornicol]

It's quite extraordinary how little comment there has been in the papers (apart from the ridiculous Q&A in the DR), considering the size of the story here.

 

I really believe it's all about fear of retribution, and intimidation, coupled with a little bit freemasonry.

 

Doncaster and Regan may not want to be in this position but are too scared to do anything.

 

Wasn't there a rumour that one of them (I'm guessing Regan) had applied for a job in English cricket recently and had been kb'd ?

You obviously know nothing about freemasonry!

[Seymour M Hersh]

She would need backing. What she has said in the past is there is a culture of self interest. How do you erase that?

 

She wouldn't need back to resign from the board. It would be news worthy because the only woman on the board resigned due to the stitch up. To date she has not done so.

[Niemi]

Not actually big? $#!te post. It's only Scottish football fans making a big deal because it's in Scotland.

I wonder how Italian football fans would act if say this was Juventus cheating. Oh yeah that's right. I don't have to imagine how Italians would react to something along the same lines.

Juventus were involved in a criminal act so not comparable

[Billybuffjaw]

There is going to be no change to the past yet some are still dreaming there will be.

 

There will be no stripping of titles, there will be no more fines imposed on Rangers/Sevco or whatever name people want to use, so just accept it...vent your spleen when Mr Doncaster asks for your comments but it will not impact on what

has happened.

 

We know mistakes were made and some people have seemingly got off scot-free...Stewart Milne anyone

 

Any review will be about rules in the future and only implemented when the authorities pass those changes.

 

Taking out your anger on our owner is just sad and an example of people who are so caught up in this situation they act like sheep and are ending up following fans groups from other clubs such as the Green Brigade.

Taking the moral high ground is fine for others it seems but there are few posting on this subject who can claim that

ground yet think our owner should do so without thought to any consequences.

Great post  

[jambovambo]

You obviously know nothing about freemasonry!

You're right there !!

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Juventus were involved in a criminal act so not comparable

So its how you cheat that makes everything else related to cheating incomparable to what Newco did. Paying players you cant afford to help you compete is not that far from bribing people to make sure you have the right ref doing your games. Cheating is cheating surely.

[buzzbomb1958]

Why are people still calling them Rangers surely from now on that name should not be mentioned they should be called what they are DEID CHEATS or can somebody come with a new name which is better

[IveSeenTheLight]

There is going to be no change to the past yet some are still dreaming there will be.There will be no stripping of titles, there will be no more fines imposed on Rangers/Sevco or whatever name people want to use, so just accept it..

Then there is no integrity in Scottish football and the organisations are corrupt.

Any other sport or any other country and those who cheated and brought the sport into disrepute would be correctly stripped of their titles.

[newbie]

Taking the moral high ground is fine for others it seems but there are few posting on this subject who can claim that

ground yet think our owner should do so without thought to any consequences.

Do you mean Dave King or David Murray when you refer to our owner?

[buzzbomb1958]

 

Why don't you stick to the Deid Cheats forum we are sick of your inane ramblings,your new club cheated ,you have no titles ,no Scottish cups and no stars on your second hand jerseys' believe what you want but every other Scottish football fans know what youse are cheating scumbags and you won't be allowed to forget it,now piss off back to your scummy pals

Edited July 28, 2017 by buzzbomb1958

[BertieBollocks]

Great post  

naw it was a shit post that could have been penned by doncaster or reagan themselves , only meaningful to deadco sevco fans 

[BertieBollocks]

Do you mean Dave King or David Murray when you refer to our owner?

exactly ive followed cj.s post for quite sometime and he reminds me of the embarrasing hearts supporter mate watching sevco v celtic on telly veins bursting in the neck screaming for every sevco decision 

[Groatallar]

This was never going to result in titles being stripped. For me you have to seperate the tax evasion from the registration rules.

 

The tax issue was a complicated matter and at that time it was legal.

 

The registration issue is the one that matters (football wise) and either a blind eye was turned at the time of these contracts or there was a massive flaw in in checking procedures of registration documents that spanned a number of years. I suspect the latter.

 

To punish Rangers 2 for this raises a lot of awkward questions as to why this was not spotted at the time and Rangers could well argue that they felt all was in order as they had never been challenged regarding this. Of course one could also say that they willfully withheld the necessary information. 

 

To find Rangers guilty of cheating would in my opinion result in huge embarrassment to our football authorities due to incompetence at that time and therefore a sweep it under the carpet was always going to happen.

[Diadora Van Basten]

There is going to be no change to the past yet some are still dreaming there will be.

 

There will be no stripping of titles, there will be no more fines imposed on Rangers/Sevco or whatever name people want to use, so just accept it...vent your spleen when Mr Doncaster asks for your comments but it will not impact on what

has happened.

 

We know mistakes were made and some people have seemingly got off scot-free...Stewart Milne anyone

 

Any review will be about rules in the future and only implemented when the authorities pass those changes.

 

Taking out your anger on our owner is just sad and an example of people who are so caught up in this situation they act like sheep and are ending up following fans groups from other clubs such as the Green Brigade.

Taking the moral high ground is fine for others it seems but there are few posting on this subject who can claim that

ground yet think our owner should do so without thought to any consequences.

I think the fact that Ann and you are on the same side of the argument says it all.

 

Horses for courses we needed Romanov for this issue not Ann.

 

If Ann had been in charge when Regan wanted to put Sevco in the SPL they would be there.

[CJGJ]

Do you mean Dave King or David Murray when you refer to our owner?

 

You and others really need to think with an independent mind.

 

Some on here do not follow blindly the twitters and bloggers of shall we say a Celtic connection but sad to say some do and all they can come up with is you're against our point of view so you're not a Hearts fan.

They then try to tar you with being a fan of the club that they think you are defending despite the fact all you are doing is not being caught up in the rush to condemn everything brought up by those mystery bloggers who produce so much fake news, You understand after a while that daring to point out the imaginations of some are not the realities of the case will bring down their wrath upon you

 

I am of the firm belief that we are wasting time and energy about a subject on which a sentence has been rightly passed. Some are beginning to realise this but still cannot fully face that fact. The question as to whether that is right or wrong is a moot point.

 

The future should take into account the lessons to be learned from past experiences so I look forward to a new rule book regarding this topic but it will not change what has happened in the past few years and the waste of time and energy to try and do so just shows you how some can be so caught up in events they forget to take a step back and think.

 

If we could start again then who knows what decisions would have been reached re title stripping etc but that time has passed and no amount of shouting and stamping your feet will change that.

 

Still it's all about opinion.............................unless you dare to question.

Edited July 28, 2017 by CJGJ

[Diadora Van Basten]

You and others really need to think with an independent mind.

 

Some on here do not follow blindly the twitters and bloggers of shall we say a Celtic connection but sad to say some do and all they can come up with is you're against our point of view so you're not a Hearts fan.

They then try to tar you with being a fan of the club that they think you are defending despite the fact all you are doing is not being caught up in the rush to condemn everything brought up by those mystery bloggers who produce so much fake news, daring to point out the imaginations of some are not the realities of the case.

 

I am of the firm belief that we are wasting time and energy about a subject on which a sentence has been rightly passed. Some are beginning to realise this but still cannot fully face that fact. The question as to whether that is right or wrong is a moot point.

 

The future should take into account the lessons to be learned from past experiences so I look forward to a new rule book regarding this topic but it will not change what has happened in the past few years and the waste of time and energy to try and do so just shows you how some can be so caught up in events they forget to take a step back and think.

 

If we could start again then who knows what decisions would have been reached re title stripping etc but that time has passed and no amount of shouting and stamping your feet will change that.

 

Still it's all about opinion.............................unless you dare to question.

Disagree it has nothing to do with Celtic. It's about knowing right from wrong.

 

I would urge you to have a look at your payslip and the sections PAYE, Employee NI and Employer NI ( which is just money your employer can't pay you) and think what you could do with this money.

 

Altogether this amount would almost double your payslip and then realise that this is the reason that Rangers could afford to buy the players that they did.

 

I watched football in the 80s and it was competitive.

[Riccarton3]

You and others really need to think with an independent mind.

 

Some on here do not follow blindly the twitters and bloggers of shall we say a Celtic connection but sad to say some do and all they can come up with is you're against our point of view so you're not a Hearts fan.

They then try to tar you with being a fan of the club that they think you are defending despite the fact all you are doing is not being caught up in the rush to condemn everything brought up by those mystery bloggers who produce so much fake news, You understand after a while that daring to point out the imaginations of some are not the realities of the case will bring down their wrath upon you

 

I am of the firm belief that we are wasting time and energy about a subject on which a sentence has been rightly passed. Some are beginning to realise this but still cannot fully face that fact. The question as to whether that is right or wrong is a moot point.

 

The future should take into account the lessons to be learned from past experiences so I look forward to a new rule book regarding this topic but it will not change what has happened in the past few years and the waste of time and energy to try and do so just shows you how some can be so caught up in events they forget to take a step back and think.

 

If we could start again then who knows what decisions would have been reached re title stripping etc but that time has passed and no amount of shouting and stamping your feet will change that.

 

Still it's all about opinion.............................unless you dare to question.

They had tens of players improperly registered over a decade. That's all you need to know. I don't need independent thought. I can get this information anywhere. It's unambiguous and unchallenged.

 

Your only real input is to tell us, I think, the football authorities are unfit for purpose dressed up as some curious attack on football fans simply looking for each competing team to be treated the same.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Riccarton3

[Lovecraft]

You and others really need to think with an independent mind.

 

Some on here do not follow blindly the twitters and bloggers of shall we say a Celtic connection but sad to say some do and all they can come up with is you're against our point of view so you're not a Hearts fan.

They then try to tar you with being a fan of the club that they think you are defending despite the fact all you are doing is not being caught up in the rush to condemn everything brought up by those mystery bloggers who produce so much fake news, You understand after a while that daring to point out the imaginations of some are not the realities of the case will bring down their wrath upon you

 

I am of the firm belief that we are wasting time and energy about a subject on which a sentence has been rightly passed. Some are beginning to realise this but still cannot fully face that fact. The question as to whether that is right or wrong is a moot point.

 

The future should take into account the lessons to be learned from past experiences so I look forward to a new rule book regarding this topic but it will not change what has happened in the past few years and the waste of time and energy to try and do so just shows you how some can be so caught up in events they forget to take a step back and think.

 

If we could start again then who knows what decisions would have been reached re title stripping etc but that time has passed and no amount of shouting and stamping your feet will change that.

 

Still it's all about opinion.............................unless you dare to question.

The best thing to come out of the whole thing is, Rangers, or whatever you want to call them, are miles behind Celtic, and will never win anything for literally decades. 

 

#10inarow

[milky_26]

They had tens of players improperly registered over a decade. That's all you need to know. I don't need independent thought. I can get this information anywhere. It's unambiguous and unchallenged.

 

Your only real input is to tell us, I think, the football authorities are unfit for purpose dressed up as some curious attack on football fans simply looking for each competing team to be treated the same.

exactly, how many teams have been kicked out of the cups due to minor offences. i think it was a couple of years ago a player had not signed one page of his contract (out of something like ten pages) and when the sfa spotted this they kicked that team out of the cup because he was incorrectly registered

[Riccarton3]

exactly, how many teams have been kicked out of the cups due to minor offences. i think it was a couple of years ago a player had not signed one page of his contract (out of something like ten pages) and when the sfa spotted this they kicked that team out of the cup because he was incorrectly registered

These are not fantasies made up by some blogger. Admittedly, there will be blogs supporting retrospective action but that is different from just looking at real decisions and sanctions handed out then concluding that Rangers have been treated with kid gloves. It takes some level of blinkeredness not to see this, or acknowledge it on a fans' forum - surely a simple step for any rounded Hearts fan without an agenda.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Riccarton3

[Seymour M Hersh]

The best thing to come out of the whole thing is, Rangers, or whatever you want to call them, are miles behind Celtic, and will never win anything for literally decades. 

 

#10inarow

 

A story in the wife's paper made me laugh this morning. Some sellik knuckle dragger, while bevvied on holiday in Majorca thought he get a 10 in a row tattoo across his chest. The tattoo artist misheard him and tattooed Terry Munro!!!