steve444 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Thanks for sharing Steve. Very insightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 They still averaged over 30,000, double what we pull through the gate (and yes, I know our capacity makes that impossible). The interesting thing, assuming Motherwell complete the job, is how willing they are to back a team playing second tier football again. I think it depends on what happens over the summer, get an interesting manager in who builds an exciting team (which can easily done on their budget) and have the fans get the sense that they are building properly, then I think you will keep the vast majority of them on board. Certainly the Rangers fans I know are very reasonable in what they want to see Rangers do and want Rangers to rebuild the football structure front top to bottom and are not expecting money to be thrown around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton Peck Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Have Coca Cola been usurped by Sports Direct in official branding at Ibrox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Rangers are close to having what we had this time last season- a fresh start. They'll have budget freed up when guys like Black, Templeton, Daly etc and their ridiculous wages go, and they'll be able to replace them with a cheaper, better team. I know they don't have a Levein or a Neilson but they'll be much more healthy next season, both on and off the park. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Rangers are close to having what we had this time last season- a fresh start. They'll have budget freed up when guys like Black, Templeton, Daly etc and their ridiculous wages go, and they'll be able to replace them with a cheaper, better team. I know they don't have a Levein or a Neilson but they'll be much more healthy next season, both on and off the park. IMO. I agree and football wise another season in championship under McColl might not be a bad thing as they will be better prepared when they do go up. The ever present fly in the ointment is the boardroom though. God knows what the next twist there will be reckon they are all praying Ashley will just walk away. Good luck with that strategy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Rangers are close to having what we had this time last season- a fresh start. They'll have budget freed up when guys like Black, Templeton, Daly etc and their ridiculous wages go, and they'll be able to replace them with a cheaper, better team. I know they don't have a Levein or a Neilson but they'll be much more healthy next season, both on and off the park. IMO. Agree to an extent but its the onerous contracts that are also an issue. I think the wage to turnover wasnt actually that bad, its just they are shelling money here, there and everywhere. Edited May 31, 2015 by Jamboelite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busby1985 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Rangers are close to having what we had this time last season- a fresh start. They'll have budget freed up when guys like Black, Templeton, Daly etc and their ridiculous wages go, and they'll be able to replace them with a cheaper, better team. I know they don't have a Levein or a Neilson but they'll be much more healthy next season, both on and off the park. IMO. I honestly can't see that happening. I can see the players you mentioned being let go etc but IMO there is 0 chance of "a fresh start". Rangers, their fans, board, players and the media remind me of that old Simpson advert on channel four. The one with the doughnut on the electricity wires and homer trying to reach it, every time he touches it he is electrocuted but the urge to get it is to much and he is just continuously zapped. That, in a nut shell, for me, will be the continuing Rangers story till they, either, succeed or die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Agree to an extent but its the onerous contracts that are also an issue. I think the wage to turnover wasnt actually that bad, its just they are shelling money here, there and everywhere. I think last years accounts showed that if they hadn't paid a single penny in wages to players they would still have made a loss. I could be wrong but that sums it all up if correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeno Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 There are decent rangers fans who know what they need and what should be done to get their team back on track. Then there are the legions and legions of idiots who need the "warchests" and to be "back where they belong" so they can feel good about their wretched existence. Tough balancing act ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yes...glory hunters. Their crowds have been terrible this season. If they are not winning (and this season it was us who was doing all the winning) they don't attend. yes but although it can't be counted because of your point about results there did seem to be a significant boycott that hurt Ashley's plans and did in part help King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Rangers are close to having what we had this time last season- a fresh start. They'll have budget freed up when guys like Black, Templeton, Daly etc and their ridiculous wages go, and they'll be able to replace them with a cheaper, better team. I know they don't have a Levein or a Neilson but they'll be much more healthy next season, both on and off the park. IMO. Might be in a slightly better position than they are now but ' fresh start ' eh nah , if king cant do zip about the onerous contracts and offshore payments no danger he or anyone else will plough money into that basket case of a club . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Young Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I agree and football wise another season in championship under McColl might not be a bad thing as they will be better prepared when they do go up. The ever present fly in the ointment is the boardroom though. God knows what the next twist there will be reckon they are all praying Ashley will just walk away. Good luck with that strategy! I agree with you on this and i suspect that the lying king wants to be the king of the castle but does not or can not pony up he keeps going on about the 20 million he lost and the first thing he did when in power was to try to get McCoist to give up his wages this is not what someone with so called off the radar wealth would do it is more the actions off a Walter Mitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Might be in a slightly better position than they are now but ' fresh start ' eh nah , if king cant do zip about the onerous contracts and offshore payments no danger he or anyone else will plough money into that basket case of a club . That's a big If! I totally get you of course, but I think that there'll be a mechanism for whoever to put whatever money is needed in to get rid of at least some of these contracts over the summer. If they get that done, the cash situation gets much better and the playing squad can be improved hugely, especially if they start actually hiring decent footballing management, scouts, coaches etc and generally start acting like a football club. It's a big job but I think it's already bottomed and on the way to getting better for them whether they win or lose today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmul Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Rangers are close to having what we had this time last season- a fresh start. They'll have budget freed up when guys like Black, Templeton, Daly etc and their ridiculous wages go, and they'll be able to replace them with a cheaper, better team. I know they don't have a Levein or a Neilson but they'll be much more healthy next season, both on and off the park. IMO. Unfortunately, there are several reasons why they are not in position for a fresh start: 1) Cash burn each month(and not just on wages) they are spending more than they earn each month by approx 500k-1m. This would appear to be going to the spivs. 2) They need to rebuild the football side completely from the ground up, not just new first team players, that takes a lot of cash. As we have seen, the glib and ahmeless liar is tighter than a gnats chuff, so where is the money coming from? 3) Need a new first team squad and management team for next season, again, where's the money coming from? 4) The orcs are not known for their patience, they want a war chest, marquee signings and trophies now or they will walk away. The time for a fresh start was 3 years ago, that ship has sailed long ago. Financially they are fecked unless someone is willing to pump in 50m or so and basically kiss it goodbye as they will never get it back. That isn't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmul Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 That's a big If! I totally get you of course, but I think that there'll be a mechanism for whoever to put whatever money is needed in to get rid of at least some of these contracts over the summer. If they get that done, the cash situation gets much better and the playing squad can be improved hugely, especially if they start actually hiring decent footballing management, scouts, coaches etc and generally start acting like a football club. It's a big job but I think it's already bottomed and on the way to getting better for them whether they win or lose today The problem is, that to buy out contracts takes a lot of cash, 10's of millions, and you never get that money back, none of the current board will simply hand over cash, it isn't going to happen. They have been stitched up completely by green etc. You can only renegotiate/cancel contracts id both parties are willing, why would the recipients of the money from these contracts want to renegotiate/cancel them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkishcap Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 As usual this is a tip top read even if a lot is just speculation, I usually leave the page feeling jolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Dee Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Does anybody know how much debt they're actually in now? I know that Dave is going to hand them ?30M any minute, but just wondered if the figures were known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmul Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Does anybody know how much debt they're actually in now? I know that Dave is going to hand them ?30M any minute, but just wondered if the figures were known. It depends on which debt you are talking about as there are 2 companies - RIFC(the holding company and the company in which there are shares) and TRFC(the football club which is a wholly owned subsidiary of RIFC). TRFC owe RIFC approx 15-20m, There are also loans to TRFC/RIFC totalling approx 9/10m, from ashley/sd 5m, the 3 stooges 3m ish and the glib and shameless liar approx 1.5m, difficult to get exact figures as they have delisted from aim so not so many announcements. But in total there is approx 25m of debt between the 2 companies. The debt owed to RIFC by TRFC is mostly from the share issue back in december 2012. Also their retail income comes from Rangers Retail which is another separate company(with it's own shares) which is jointly owned by RIFC and Sports Direct however, as part of the 5m loan in january, sports direct own 75% of it now until the loan is paid back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I wonder just how significant the debt between the various parts of the Rangers totality is. Is it not more important to consider what the balance is between income and expenditure? (And maybe somebody on here will be able to work that out.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmul Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I wonder just how significant the debt between the various parts of the Rangers totality is. Is it not more important to consider what the balance is between income and expenditure? (And maybe somebody on here will be able to work that out.) Over the last 3 years they have been running at a monthly loss of between 1.1m and 500k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldstone Wonder Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 You ok Huns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 At least they will have saved a couple of million by not going up this season. ?500K won't be going to Ashley re the loan signings. Probably ?200K promotion bonus for McCall? Maybe the same again for McCoist? Promotion bonuses for the first team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It depends on which debt you are talking about as there are 2 companies - RIFC(the holding company and the company in which there are shares) and TRFC(the football club which is a wholly owned subsidiary of RIFC). TRFC owe RIFC approx 15-20m, There are also loans to TRFC/RIFC totalling approx 9/10m, from ashley/sd 5m, the 3 stooges 3m ish and the glib and shameless liar approx 1.5m, difficult to get exact figures as they have delisted from aim so not so many announcements. But in total there is approx 25m of debt between the 2 companies. The debt owed to RIFC by TRFC is mostly from the share issue back in december 2012. Also their retail income comes from Rangers Retail which is another separate company(with it's own shares) which is jointly owned by RIFC and Sports Direct however, as part of the 5m loan in january, sports direct own 75% of it now until the loan is paid back. Can you or someone explain to us "business innocents" how the TRFC\RIFC bit works. I understand that The Rangers are owned by RIFC - and that RIFC have most of the debt but - what is the advantage of having 2 companies? Does The Rangers pay interest to RIFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 At least they will have saved a couple of million by not going up this season. ?500K won't be going to Ashley re the loan signings. Probably ?200K promotion bonus for McCall? Maybe the same again for McCoist? Promotion bonuses for the first team? at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Believer Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 At least they will have saved a couple of million by not going up this season. ?500K won't be going to Ashley re the loan signings. Probably ?200K promotion bonus for McCall? Maybe the same again for McCoist? Promotion bonuses for the first team? How much do you think it has cost them though? I get the feeling that King was hoping to know they were in the SPL before he committed cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The problem is, that to buy out contracts takes a lot of cash, 10's of millions, and you never get that money back, none of the current board will simply hand over cash, it isn't going to happen. They have been stitched up completely by green etc. You can only renegotiate/cancel contracts id both parties are willing, why would the recipients of the money from these contracts want to renegotiate/cancel them? It is a problem, in fact it's loads of problems. But they're the problems that have to get dealt with, difficult and pricey though they may be. The very fact that one conttact was recently revealed to be a 7 year rolling contract tells us it's there to set a buy out figure- no one realistically expects it to either last forever or for 7 years' notice to be served, so someone's looking to be paid off at some point in time. (That's how I would do it too if i was clever enough to think of it!) It'll hurt like hell whether they deal with these people in the short term or the long term but my money's on King eyc wanting it out of the way soon so they can get on with things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It is a problem, in fact it's loads of problems. But they're the problems that have to get dealt with, difficult and pricey though they may be. The very fact that one conttact was recently revealed to be a 7 year rolling contract tells us it's there to set a buy out figure- no one realistically expects it to either last forever or for 7 years' notice to be served, so someone's looking to be paid off at some point in time. (That's how I would do it too if i was clever enough to think of it!) It'll hurt like hell whether they deal with these people in the short term or the long term but my money's on King eyc wanting it out of the way soon so they can get on with things Don't think King will be thinking about rolling contracts just now, not with his head down the toilet bowl ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Don't think King will be thinking about rolling contracts just now, not with his head down the toilet bowl ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airdriejambo3 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) what am i doing at Tynecastle when there is stunners like top left and at both sides of the guy with glasses at the bottom kicking about at Ibrox , oh and Moshni's bro in the middle. wooty wooo Edited May 31, 2015 by airdriejambo3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 what am i doing at Tynecastle when there is stunners like top left and at both sides of the guy with glasses at the bottom kicking about at Ibrox , oh and Moshni's bro in the middle. wooty wooo That's not Mohsni's bro, that's a post op Terry Hurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmul Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Can you or someone explain to us "business innocents" how the TRFC\RIFC bit works. I understand that The Rangers are owned by RIFC - and that RIFC have most of the debt but - what is the advantage of having 2 companies? Does The Rangers pay interest to RIFC? I've wondered all along why it was set up like this, it's very common in normal business to do this, but it's odd for football clubs, but is more common than it used to be. My own take on it is that at some point, TRFC will be sold to real rangurz men or the fans and RIFC take the property(ibrokes, murray mints park) in full settlement of the debt between the 2 companies. Effectively, RIFC is a property company(it owns the car park and edminston house) which also owns a football team TRFC(which owns ibrokes and murray mints park). The orcs bought shares in RIFC thinking they own shares in TRFC, they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchmul Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It is a problem, in fact it's loads of problems. But they're the problems that have to get dealt with, difficult and pricey though they may be. The very fact that one conttact was recently revealed to be a 7 year rolling contract tells us it's there to set a buy out figure- no one realistically expects it to either last forever or for 7 years' notice to be served, so someone's looking to be paid off at some point in time. (That's how I would do it too if i was clever enough to think of it!) It'll hurt like hell whether they deal with these people in the short term or the long term but my money's on King eyc wanting it out of the way soon so they can get on with things The issue here is that the glib and shameless liar does not want to spend his own money in restructuring the club/company, and no one else can afford to, that's why no contract buy outs, that's why ashley's loan hasn't been repaid, that's why he keeps talking about another share issue. He is notoriously tight. If he wanted to he could have gotten it all sorted out by now but he hasn't, why is that? The 7 year contract is not that unusual, murray sold the tops to jjb sports years a go for I think 10 years. The bottom line is that sevco spend more than they earn and have been doing it for many many years. Listen to what king is saying, he is talking about competing with celtic within 3-5 years!!! thats going to cost an awful lot of money, over and above the loan repayments and the buying out contracts, their financials are in the toilet and they are still living in lah lah land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Admittedly it won't look better for them after this weekend dm! One thing though, jjb was for ten years, but a rolling contract is a much weightier millstone round the neck that needs sorting quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) How much do you think it has cost them though? I get the feeling that King was hoping to know they were in the SPL before he committed cash. Around ?7M-?10M ........ not from my own calculations, but from Dave King himself. Here is an extract from an interview he did with Rangers TV on 21st May. "I think I made a comment before that I think about ?30m, I think will be the gap that shareholders will have to put in, before we get there, in addition to the normal revenue streams coming into the club, before it becomes self sustainable. But if we were to miss a year, say in the Premier League, it could go up to 37/40. If things go really really well and we can change the commercial relationships it might go down to 25. Text from 3' 20" in Edited May 31, 2015 by Footballfirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve444 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Cant wait for Ashley to get his money back lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve444 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/31/a2eedacba7d3561243b996e823e18bc1.jpg https://twitter.com/DAVOTELLI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Stay classy SEVCO fans. Not surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Hopefully "Davo" is tracked down for that one. The Sevconians have been keen on hunting down anyone making inappropriate jokes about the Ibrox disaster - hopefully they don't have double standards on shaming this fud, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I like how this sickening tweet is appearing on multiple threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 At least they will have saved a couple of million by not going up this season. ?500K won't be going to Ashley re the loan signings. Probably ?200K promotion bonus for McCall? Maybe the same again for McCoist? Promotion bonuses for the first team? And they also have another chance to win the Petrofac Cup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavsy Van Gaverson Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I like how this sickening tweet is appearing on multiple threads. Possibly because not everyone reads every bloody thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Around ?7M-?10M ........ not from my own calculations, but from Dave King himself. Here is an extract from an interview he did with Rangers TV on 21st May. "I think I made a comment before that I think about ?30m, I think will be the gap that shareholders will have to put in, before we get there, in addition to the normal revenue streams coming into the club, before it becomes self sustainable. But if we were to miss a year, say in the Premier League, it could go up to 37/40. If things go really really well and we can change the commercial relationships it might go down to 25. Text from 3' 20" in I'm guessing after the rolling contract being discovered, the EGM having to be called, and today's result, that things are not going really really well.... Anyone any idea where they'll find the ?40,000,000 he reckons that he needs..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Possibly because not everyone reads every bloody thread.The nerve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavsy Van Gaverson Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The nerve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve444 Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Lets hope Ashley sticks the boot in with another surprise from up his sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus Young Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I'm guessing after the rolling contract being discovered, the EGM having to be called, and today's result, that things are not going really really well.... Anyone any idea where they'll find the ?40,000,000 he reckons that he needs..? 37 to 40 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Lets hope Ashley sticks the boot in with another surprise from up his sleeve.I was wondering if Vuckic's sudden anonymity in the playoff finals as soon as the owner of his home club asked for his money back might be that surprise? Would be very unprofessional but he did go from hero to zero... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboz Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Around ?7M-?10M ........ not from my own calculations, but from Dave King himself. Here is an extract from an interview he did with Rangers TV on 21st May. "I think I made a comment before that I think about ?30m, I think will be the gap that shareholders will have to put in, before we get there, in addition to the normal revenue streams coming into the club, before it becomes self sustainable. But if we were to miss a year, say in the Premier League, it could go up to 37/40. If things go really really well and we can change the commercial relationships it might go down to 25. Text from 3' 20" in How anyone can take anything he says at face value? Glib and shameless Edited May 31, 2015 by jamboz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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