The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

People still clinging on to some faint hope that Sevco are going into admin.

 

Sheesh!

I think many people hope TRFC go into admin, and would love to see them disappear altogether. I doubt, though, that many are 'clinging' to that 'admin' hope as that suggests their own future wellbeing depends on the event happening; TRFC supporters and sympathisers, on the other hand, must be 'clinging' to the hope that all the doomsayers aren't just exaggerating, but are totally wide of the mark.

 

I think there can be little doubt that, without the intervention of Ashley and SD, TRFC would have gone to the wall mid-season, the fact Ashley was able to grab such onerous security must prove that. There is now a board in place that only got there on promises of huge investment, ?30m being one of the lower figures mentioned. No investment has yet appeared, despite the clear urgency for that money. Loans alone only add to the problem.

 

TRFC might well escape administration, by the skin of their teeth, but only if, either, the King consortium invest heavily (not loans), very soon, or, they hold up their hands and hand the lot back to Ashley who then runs it on a sustainable basis, regardless of what the supporters might think, do or threaten.

 

I personally think they will survive without an administration. There has been so many moments when their comeuppance seemed certain, yet, miraculously, they've, with the help of people in power, managed to squirm out of, that I doubt they will ever get their just deserts.

 

The figures, however, and lack of urgency from King, would suggest that any 'clinging to hope' should be the position of those that would wish to see TRFC survive! I well remember how similar comments about RFC's 'enemies' being over optimistic about Rangers' demise were made a few years ago, and we all know how that turned out!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I think many people hope TRFC go into admin, and would love to see them disappear altogether. I doubt, though, that many are 'clinging' to that 'admin' hope as that suggests their own future wellbeing depends on the event happening; TRFC supporters and sympathisers, on the other hand, must be 'clinging' to the hope that all the doomsayers aren't just exaggerating, but are totally wide of the mark.

 

I think there can be little doubt that, without the intervention of Ashley and SD, TRFC would have gone to the wall mid-season, the fact Ashley was able to grab such onerous security must prove that. There is now a board in place that only got there on promises of huge investment, ?30m being one of the lower figures mentioned. No investment has yet appeared, despite the clear urgency for that money. Loans alone only add to the problem.

 

TRFC might well escape administration, by the skin of their teeth, but only if, either, the King consortium invest heavily (not loans), very soon, or, they hold up their hands and hand the lot back to Ashley who then runs it on a sustainable basis, regardless of what the supporters might think, do or threaten.

 

I personally think they will survive without an administration. There has been so many moments when their comeuppance seemed certain, yet, miraculously, they've, with the help of people in power, managed to squirm out of, that I doubt they will ever get their just deserts.

 

The figures, however, and lack of urgency from King, would suggest that any 'clinging to hope' should be the position of those that would wish to see TRFC survive! I well remember how similar comments about RFC's 'enemies' being over optimistic about Rangers' demise were made a few years ago, and we all know how that turned out!

I used "clinging to hope" because of the posts referring to payday and other such nonsense, suggesting that they are living hand to mouth. In truth, the 3 Bears loan has bought them until the close season when they'll have to restructure things again.

[portobellojambo1]

Must admit I'm intrigued at Mike Ashley apparently appealing his ?7,500 fine.

 

It'll cost him more than that in legal fees. He doesn't come over as someone who bothers about what others think. It's an amount he could probably find down the back of his sofa.

 

So why bother with an appeal..?

 

Could he be up to something regarding Rangers ownership, that would need this decision and fine, set aside before he acts..?

 

 

I'd be inclined to say that he appears to be the sort of person who doesn't really care what others think about him Gasman, in terms of how he operates in general, he has his way of doing things.  But if and when he thinks someone has stepped on his toes I get the impression he will react. I also get the impression that he has so much money available to him that paying for legal expenses to prove a point is probably something that wouldn't bother him at all, his business dealings will recoup that in no time at all. Certainly the original fine, ?7,500, to him is bog all, you could imagine him rolling that amount up, setting it on fire and lighting a cigar from it without a care in the world.

 

In that context I don't think actually appealing will bother him for one second, but the purpose of the appeal is the part that, from the outside, is difficult to work out why and what is in it for him.

Edited April 25, 2015 by portobellojambo1

[Unknown user]

I'd be inclined to say that he appears to be the sort of person who doesn't really care what others think about him Gasman, in terms of how he operates in general, he has his way of doing things. But if and when he thinks someone has stepped on his toes I get the impression he will react. I also get the impression that he has so much money available to him that paying for legal expenses to prove a point is probably something that wouldn't bother him at all, his business dealings will recoup that in no time at all. Certainly the original fine, ?7,500, to him is bog all, you could imagine him rolling that amount up, setting it on fire and lighting a cigar from it without a care in the world.

 

In that context I don't think actually appealing will bother him for one second, but the purpose of the appeal is the part that, from the outside, is difficult to work out why and what is in it for him.

If Ashley and/or SD don't have a legal department at their disposal I'm a freshwater fish.

I think we can safely discount any notion of legal expenses being a consideration

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

I used "clinging to hope" because of the posts referring to payday and other such nonsense, suggesting that they are living hand to mouth. In truth, the 3 Bears loan has bought them until the close season when they'll have to restructure things again.

When a business has to borrow money for current working capital, it is in trouble. When it has to borrow money to pay debts already run up, it is in deeper trouble. When it has to borrow money to pay wages, it is in very deep in trouble indeed.

 

By the time TRFC reach the point where they can get rid of their overpaid players (but still have their gardeners) they will still have to pay their final month's salary, plus anything else written into the players' contracts - so do they need another ?1.5m next month? More money will have already gone out regardless, and the income from the play-offs, their only income, will be reduced by ?500,000 if they make it to the Premiership, and if they don't...it'll, no doubt, cost them a lot more than ?500,000. 

 

TRFC will probably survive, but to think they are not in very deep trouble is just so very unrealistic, only the most ludicrously optimistic of bears would possibly believe it.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

When a business has to borrow money for current working capital, it is in trouble. When it has to borrow money to pay debts already run up, it is in deeper trouble. When it has to borrow money to pay wages, it is in very deep in trouble indeed.

 

By the time TRFC reach the point where they can get rid of their overpaid players (but still have their gardeners) they will still have to pay their final month's salary, plus anything else written into the players' contracts - so do they need another ?1.5m next month? More money will have already gone out regardless, and the income from the play-offs, their only income, will be reduced by ?500,000 if they make it to the Premiership, and if they don't...it'll, no doubt, cost them a lot more than ?500,000.

 

TRFC will probably survive, but to think they are not in very deep trouble is just so very unrealistic, only the most ludicrously optimistic of bears would possibly believe it.

The problem is with that though is that people only seem to have two views of a club playing out of Ibrox. The most recent is one which was pissing money up against a wall in a belief that's what a team playing out of Ibrox does, just like its previous incarnation which had an unlimited credit line. In truth, I foresee a return to a team like that of when I was a young kid when Rangers didn't win titles, won the odd cup, were inferior to Celtic and the New Firm and gloryhunters showed no interest. That would satisfy me. Edited April 25, 2015 by Geoff Kilpatrick

[millano77]

Sevco need to pay this months wages on the 26th which is Sunday Super Salary and Clipboard Kenny are undertaking major gardening jobs and need to be paid as does Blackie.

Ally and Kenny got paid off when king came in. They r no longer due any money unfortunately

[Jambof3tornado]

Ally and Kenny got paid off when king came in. They r no longer due any money unfortunately

I dont remember seeing that mentioned. Are you sure?

[millano77]

I dont remember seeing that mentioned. Are you sure?

Yeah it was the first thing that King done. Both of them practically walked for nothing due to the new regime to help them out

[redjambo]

Yeah it was the first thing that King done. Both of them practically walked for nothing due to the new regime to help them out

 

This is news to me too. Kenny McDowall left the club in March but as far as I know Ally McCoist is still on gardening leave. Do you have any news sources that say he left the club?

[Dutchmul]

Ally and Kenny got paid off when king came in. They r no longer due any money unfortunately

 

 

Yeah it was the first thing that King done. Both of them practically walked for nothing due to the new regime to help them out

 

Do you have a source for that? i've never seen anything quoted anywhere about both of them going off the payroll and if they where, i'd imagine the board would be crowing about it.

 

As far as I know, both are currently working their notice periods and getting paid each month as per their contracts.

[The Gasman]

Yeah it was the first thing that King done. Both of them practically walked for nothing due to the new regime to help them out

Must admit, I missed this as well....

[millano77]

This is news to me too. Kenny McDowall left the club in March but as far as I know Ally McCoist is still on gardening leave. Do you have any news sources that say he left the club?

It was reported on the bbc and the evening times. Also reported to aim as they were still registered with them when this happened

[Jambof3tornado]

I'm calling shite on this paid off stuff. No danger it wouldnt have been all over the media as a king positive guy type story!

[Dutchmul]

It was reported on the bbc and the evening times. Also reported to aim as they were still registered with them when this happened

 

I've done some searches but can't find anything confirming what you say. Can you post links please.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

It was reported on the bbc and the evening times. Also reported to aim as they were still registered with them when this happened

 

Links?

 

Like everybody else I seem to have missed this news as well.

[millano77]

I've done some searches but can't find anything confirming what you say. Can you post links please.

I am currently searching for them. My dad sent me them as he is a Rangers fan. The aim one I did see posted on Twitter so currently searching bk on my history to see if I retweeted it

[redjambo]

It was reported on the bbc and the evening times. Also reported to aim as they were still registered with them when this happened

 

This BBC article http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32139467 on 31 March 2015 mentions that both Ally McCoist and Kenny McDowall are still on the Rangers' payroll. I had actually thought that Kenny had severed his ties entirely but perhaps I was mistaken.

[Jambof3tornado]

I am currently searching for them. My dad sent me them as he is a Rangers fan. The aim one I did see posted on Twitter so currently searching bk on my history to see if I retweeted it

I had a quick hunt and found nowt.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I am currently searching for them. My dad sent me them as he is a Rangers fan. The aim one I did see posted on Twitter so currently searching bk on my history to see if I retweeted it

 

There was a lot of talk from Rangers fans saying McCoist should walk away for the benefit of the club if King took over, but I don't think he actually did.

[millano77]

There was a lot of talk from Rangers fans saying McCoist should walk away for the benefit of the club if King took over, but I don't think he actually did.

I must admit I can't find it myself. I may be mistaken and got it wrong. Sorry if that is the case

[redjambo]

I must admit I can't find it myself. I may be mistaken and got it wrong. Sorry if that is the case

 

No need to apologise if that is the case. You might turn out to be right. There's so much conflicting information and inconsistent surrounding Rangers, it's difficult to know what's true and false.

 

Take McDowall for example. Rangers announced here - http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/8784-mcdowall-leaves-rangers - that he had left the club. It isn't stated, but assumed, that he had come to some sort of pay-off deal for the wages he was due. However the BBC article I posted a few minutes ago says that he is still on the payroll. If he's still on the payroll then he hasn't left the club, so which is true?

[millano77]

No need to apologise if that is the case. You might turn out to be right. There's so much conflicting information and inconsistent surrounding Rangers, it's difficult to know what's true and false.

 

Take McDowall for example. Rangers announced here - http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/8784-mcdowall-leaves-rangers - that he had left the club. It isn't stated, but assumed, that he had come to some sort of pay-off deal for the wages he was due. However the BBC article I posted a few minutes ago says that he is still on the payroll. If he's still on the payroll then he hasn't left the club, so which is true?

Think anything that comes out of ibrox these days is to try and please the fans wether it's true or not

[Hagar the Horrible]

Glibco keep kicking the can down the road, but it is getting harder to kick that can as far as every time they kick it somebody kicks then in the cherries, they will use Season ticket money to pay-off Mike, then use their own money to offer loans with attachments, and being no longer able to trade properly apart via some 17yo bedroom, they can pretty much carve up this carcass even further. They are in a quagmire with mikes boot holding their heads under and letting them up for air every now and again, while the 3 stoogies are trying to make a rope from over priced Rangurs Taps sold via Sports direct.

 

They wont go into Admin 2.0 but promotion might prove humiliating next season if they are unable to compete with the bottom six, it might be safer and more beneficial of they stayed down?

 

Also I still think King will be bricking it If he passes the FPP test, because McCall has his Dossier, and the Glibco fans will want money spent for instant success especially IF they go up?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I must admit I can't find it myself. I may be mistaken and got it wrong. Sorry if that is the case

 

No worries mate.

There is usually so much spin that comes out of Ibrox it's sometimes hard to tell what's fact and what's fiction.

 

This is why threads like this are so important so that the facts and the fiction can be seperated and talked about.

[Jambof3tornado]

Misinformation seems a prevailing theme throughout the sevco rise to the top (almost).

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

The problem is with that though is that people only seem to have two views of a club playing out of Ibrox. The most recent is one which was pissing money up against a wall in a belief that's what a team playing out of Ibrox does, just like its previous incarnation which had an unlimited credit line. In truth, I foresee a return to a team like that of when I was a young kid when Rangers didn't win titles, won the odd cup, were inferior to Celtic and the New Firm and gloryhunters showed no interest. That would satisfy me.

They have been pissing money (other people's) up a wall for a very long time, ever since Murray arrived, in fact. The medium term problem is that they are ingrained with the idea that the pissing should continue and that they shouldn't be accountable, and so don't worry where it comes from or who eventually pays for it. They are now deep in debt, they are, at the moment, a loss making company, so that debt will only get deeper. Any company, regardless of the business they are in, will eventually go burst if they continue to run up debt. Even if they slow down the loss making they will still deteriorate if they do not have genuine investment, and loans are definitely not investment, especially when used solely for working capital. At the moment, TRFC are living on hope, hope that, as yet, un-met promises are kept. The one hope that seems genuine, is the one the Real Rangers Men, and the majority of supporters, want rid of - Mike Ashley! They want rid of him because all he promises them (though he hasn't actually promised them anything) is survival, not glory!  

 

TRFC's and it's supporters' big problem is that they aren't clinging onto hope of survival, they are clinging onto the unrealisable visions of glory, and not only in Scotland! What's worse - they demand it now!

 

They will probably survive, but they will never be prepared to cut their cloth accordingly. They will get uglier.

[Dutchmul]

I must admit I can't find it myself. I may be mistaken and got it wrong. Sorry if that is the case

 

Don't worry about it, lots of conflicting/confusing stories coming out of sevco. It's easy to confuse things, particularly when you have 2 members of staff working their notice periods but articles quote things like "has left the club".

[redjambo]

Once again another ?1:5m loan is needed to make this months payroll. That's ?8m in debt ( x2 ?1:5m loans from directors & ?5m from Ashley) & they'll owe Newcastle ?500k for the loan players & there's the gate revenue cash from the playoffs they'll have to pay up too.

 

Sevcos only big revenue stream will be S.tickets but this debt will eat into it too. Living hand to mouth & needing loans to survive is the reality of their situation just now.

 

Everything hinges around getting through the play-offs. If they win promotion then further funding should be forthcoming from those investors eyeing an upturn in fortunes, increased income, and the potential of European football. Rangers have to keep the lights on until the play-offs and will put themselves into further debt to do so. If they make it up to the Premiership, they should be able to address the financial situation. If they don't then they're cream-crackered with all that debt and admin would be a fair bet. In my opinion.

[Tommy Brown]

Once again another ?1:5m loan is needed to make this months payroll. That's ?8m in debt ( x2 ?1:5m loans from directors & ?5m from Ashley) & they'll owe Newcastle ?500k for the loan players & there's the gate revenue cash from the playoffs they'll have to pay up too.

Sevcos only big revenue stream will be S.tickets but this debt will eat into it too. Living hand to mouth & needing loans to survive is the reality of their situation just now.

There is no point in saying about play off money having to be paid.

There will be an income from the play offs, just not as much as a normal league game.

[redjambo]

You do realise they lose 50% of gate receipts in the play off matches ?.

 

I think they do, hence why they wrote "There will be an income from the play offs, just not as much as a normal league game."

 

The point they were making was that the cost of handing over the 50% to the SPFL was listed in the original poster's list of outgoings as if it were a net outgoing whereas it isn't, it will be met by the play-off income.

[Angus Young]

When are they due to pay this months onerous wage payment run ? it is strange that no one has said anything about who loaned/ponyed up the money to meet this months pay.

[Dutchmul]

There is no point in saying about play off money having to be paid.

There will be an income from the play offs, just not as much as a normal league game.

 

 

You do realise they lose 50% of gate receipts in the play off matches ?.

 

I think what salecc is saying that although they have to hand over some of the cash, they will still make "some" money off the playoffs, iirc season tickets are not usable in the playoffs which is part of the spfl regs for those games and that will increase the money they make.

 

If they finish second, they get 348k, but if they get promoted then have to pay NUFC 500k, as always as soon as money comes into sevco, it goes out again. 

[Dutchmul]

When are they due to pay this months onerous wage payment run ? it is strange that no one has said anything about who loaned/ponyed up the money to meet this months pay.

 

Payroll is thursday this week, lots of speculation that another 1.5m wonga loan from the 3 stooges is required this week, see the last paragraph.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/11562357/Rangers-news-Mike-Ashley-takes-on-SFA-over-7500-fine-for-dual-ownership.html

Edited April 25, 2015 by Dutchmul

[Dutchmul]

Payroll is thursday this week, lots of speculation that another 1.5m wonga loan from the 3 stooges is required this week, see the last paragraph.

 

If they do take another 1.5m loan, that will be 8m in loans in six months, that will be all their season ticket money eaten up to repay those loans before they even sign another player(although I think it highly unlikely they will pay ashley his loan back at this time).

[Tommy Brown]

You do realise they lose 50% of gate receipts in the play off matches ?.

It is still an income though.

[Angus Young]

It is still an income though.

 

 

Yip they gain 50% of the pot instead of 100%

[foghorn5]

You do realise they lose 50% of gate receipts in the play off matches ?.

TV and advertising will not be shared though? As a one off, this will bring in a fair amount.

[Tommy Brown]

Yip they gain 50% of the pot instead of 100%

Not sure how policing, stewarding, gate staff, etc are accounted for in the play offs tho?

If Rangers manage 2 or even 3 games at Ibrox, their costs will be a lot more than than the others.

Surely the 50% will be nett costs, no?

[redjambo]

Not sure how policing, stewarding, gate staff, etc are accounted for in the play offs tho?

If Rangers manage 2 or even 3 games at Ibrox, their costs will be a lot more than than the others.

Surely the 50% will be nett costs, no?

 

SPFL Regulation 26 states: "A levy of 50% of the monies (gross excluding VAT) received or receivable by the Home Club for all Play-Off Matches played in the Premiership/Championship Play-Off Competition from all admission charges paid and payable to and for the relevant Play-Off Match shall be paid by the Home Club to the Company within seven days of the date on which each Play-Off Match is played."

[redjambo]

Think of the cost of putting on a game at ?broke & the crowd size needed to break even. Subtract 50% of the gate receipts & you could have a situation where sevco actually make a loss due to the high costs involved & losing 50% of the income from it.

 

That's a fair point.

[The Gasman]

SPFL Regulation 26 states: "A levy of 50% of the monies (gross excluding VAT) received or receivable by the Home Club for all Play-Off Matches played in the Premiership/Championship Play-Off Competition from all admission charges paid and payable to and for the relevant Play-Off Match shall be paid by the Home Club to the Company within seven days of the date on which each Play-Off Match is played."

Offft..!

 

The Clubs (possibly including our own?) that voted for this to be 50% of gross income, not net income, deserve to lose money..!

[Randle P McMurphy]

The problem is with that though is that people only seem to have two views of a club playing out of Ibrox. The most recent is one which was pissing money up against a wall in a belief that's what a team playing out of Ibrox does, just like its previous incarnation which had an unlimited credit line. In truth, I foresee a return to a team like that of when I was a young kid when Rangers didn't win titles, won the odd cup, were inferior to Celtic and the New Firm and gloryhunters showed no interest. That would satisfy me.

That would do me, substituting Hearts for either or both of the new firm

[Paolo]

Yes. As they lose 50% of that cash generated their "break even" figures on crowd size effectively have to double to take this loss into account also. Not withstanding TV revenue of course as that figure isn't known at this present time.

 

Hearts hibs & Motherwell wanted it cut to 25%. They were outvoted though.

They all voted differently a year or two year ago. Edited April 25, 2015 by Claudia

[Seymour M Hersh]

It is still an income though.

 

And taxable.

[redjambo]

Offft..!

 

The Clubs (possibly including our own?) that voted for this to be 50% of gross income, not net income, deserve to lose money..!

 

The fact that Petrie is cited as being instrumental in pushing through the regulation does make you wonder whether he would have the nous to be Campbell Ogilvie's replacement,

[The Gasman]

The fact that Petrie is cited as being instrumental in pushing through the regulation does make you wonder whether he would have the nous to be Campbell Ogilvie's replacement,

That level of incompetence and hypocrisy suggests to me that Petrie's well qualified to be President of the SFA....

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Do the The Rangers need to honestly announce crowds at play-off games? They've been lying all season with inflated numbers at home games.

What's to stop them doing the opposite with play-off games. They do have a bit of a history with financial integrity.

[Paolo]

Do the The Rangers need to honestly announce crowds at play-off games? They've been lying all season with inflated numbers at home games.

What's to stop them doing the opposite with play-off games. They do have a bit of a history with financial integrity.

I think Hibs have, too. The difference is, even their inflated crowds are shite.

[davieholt]

And taxable.

 

Only if they make a profit. Can't see that happening any time soon...