The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Ivan Drago]

Celtic's U17 team beat Sevco U17 2.0 at Hampden to retain the Glasgow Cup earlier. What a shame both teams had to play it behind closed doors at our national stadium.

 

Cannot help but feel sorry for both sets of players having to do this because morons in their supports cannot act like decent human beings at a football match.

Are you sure it was behind closed doors? I know people who said their kids were going - that was youth players and school children though so maybe only they were given tickets.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/318698-scottish-fa-fit-and-proper-process-no-test-for-dave-king-to-pass/

 

Explained: Dave King and the Scottish FA's fit and proper process

The governing body's board "reserves its discretion" to make a final decision "after due consideration of all relevant facts which the board has in its possession and knowledge."

 

I wonder if they will use their "discrection"

[AndrewB]

Are you sure it was behind closed doors? I know people who said their kids were going - that was youth players and school children though so maybe only they were given tickets.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-2-rangers-0-hoops-5600621

 

"The match was played in front of a sparse crowd as only local schoolkids were admitted after trouble among fans at the last three finals."

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Yet another so called scribe calling for King to be deemed a F&PP! Michael Grant in today's Times says it would be difficult for the SFA to fly in the face of the recognition the Court of Session gave King and the fact that he is accepted as a company director in SA where he committed the crimes that led to him being described as a 'Glib and shameless liar'!

 

At one point in the article he says "King is no pariah and it would have been far more alarming if he had bee convicted of fraud (he was not)." You couldn't make this stuff up - wasn't he guilty of fraudulently evading tax?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAY_OhFRxgA

Fit and proper it is then.

[HawkeyeTheGnu2.0]

Yet another so called scribe calling for King to be deemed a F&PP! Michael Grant in today's Times says it would be difficult for the SFA to fly in the face of the recognition the Court of Session gave King and the fact that he is accepted as a company director in SA where he committed the crimes that led to him being described as a 'Glib and shameless liar'!

 

At one point in the article he says "King is no pariah and it would have been far more alarming if he had bee convicted of fraud (he was not)." You couldn't make this stuff up - wasn't he guilty of fraudulently evading tax?

As usual they miss the point.

 

The Court of Session hearing was to determine whether or not being a director of the Rangers that was liquidated would prevent him being a director of the new company. Events in SA were not material, only his behaviour as a director of a business that became insolvent, with reference to Company Law and the Insolvency Act. If the court determined that he was not liable for Rangers going bust, then it was entitled to allow his appointment.

 

The SFA FPP test is not the same thing. They will consider events other than the Rangers insolvency, and it would be reasonable to expect them to be interested in events in SA. As a guide, the leeds owner was stopped from sitting on the clubs board due to a conviction for tax evasion, and a second conviction may lead to that being extended. Now, I understand that not all offences are equal, and the passing of time may help, but you might think that this would make it more difficult to pass King.

 

The Scottish football authorities were quick to copy England when it came to naming the divisions in the new structure. In this case, however, I suspect they may assert their independence.

Edited April 29, 2015 by HawkeyeTheGnu2.0

[269miles]

The governing body's board "reserves its discretion" to make a final decision "after due consideration of all relevant facts which the board has in its possession and knowledge."

 

I wonder if they will use their "discrection"

As no one would expect the SFA/SPFL/whatever to make a decision BEFORE they had a "all relevant facts" what is this statement actually saying ?.Surely this is due process , not a matter of "discretion".

[reaths17]

As no one would expect the SFA/SPFL/whatever to make a decision BEFORE they had a "all relevant facts" what is this statement actually saying ?.Surely this is due process , not a matter of "discretion".

 

 

if the statement they release after approving king doesn't have the word "discretion" in it, my hats a goner. they've got no other excuse, thats why the word was deliberately usedin the rule, the big get out clause.

[Angus Young]

if the statement they release after approving king doesn't have the word "discretion" in it, my hats a goner. they've got no other excuse, thats why the word was deliberately usedin the rule, the big get out clause.

 

 

There is No way that King can be passed as fit and proper They must do the right thing and declare him UN fit for purpose.

[May one-six]

I have no idea why they are going through the pretence of due process - it's a stick on that both King and Murray will be passed as fit and proper.

[reaths17]

There is No way that King can be passed as fit and proper They must do the right thing and declare him UN fit for purpose.

 

"discretion" will see him passed with flying colours by the most incompitent ersoles ever to be put in charge of a  bigger game than tiddlywinks

[AndrewB]

Prediction time - board will ask for more time to consider it.  That seems to be the usual.  (Allows time for rands to be swapped for used sterling at the airport and a bin liner to be found for them to be stuffed in).

[Wilson]

I hope King does pass the "test". He will oversee, and be unable to turn round a continuing omnishambles.

 

He has yet to meet any of his pre-purchase promises.

 

He is indeed another charlatan in a long tradition of charlatans at that football club, or clubs.

[AndrewB]

I hope King does pass the "test". He will oversee, and be unable to turn round a continuing omnishambles.

 

He has yet to meet any of his pre-purchase promises.

 

He is indeed another charlatan in a long tradition of charlatans at that football club, or clubs.

It's win-win, Wilson.  I don't mind which way it goes, really.  Will be hilarious either way up!

[269miles]

if the statement they release after approving king doesn't have the word "discretion" in it, my hats a goner. they've got no other excuse, thats why the word was deliberately usedin the rule, the big get out clause.

I get it now, cheers. What they are really saying is they can decide to over ride any clear evidence of King not being fit at their discretion.

[DesertDawg]

Either way, they're not happy bears..........

 

"Has there been any announcement we have entered either exchanges appeals process ?

If they had ever wanted in and been blocked, thats the first line of action.

However if you dont want in..........

Seems to me not being listed, therefore not being accountable, suits them. They would also have to supply proof of funding for the year ahead. Funny how everything they do comes to an abrupt halt when that is asked for.

Normally, I suppose, the fans money could be counted on, but thanks to kings activism, the exchange will not rely on that, leaving kingco to guarantee it. No chance.

Just in the door and lying their face off to fans again.

No listing

No oversight

No Transparency

No funding

No honesty.

Imagine what kingco and their fans would be shouting if the old board did that.

Amazing what shite has become acceptable these days."

[Angus Young]

I hope King does pass the "test". He will oversee, and be unable to turn round a continuing omnishambles.

 

He has yet to meet any of his pre-purchase promises.

 

He is indeed another charlatan in a long tradition of charlatans at that football club, or clubs.

 

He has yet to pony up any money.

[foghorn5]

Wages day? Better get those loan forms out!

[colinmaroon]

It really is cringingly embarrassing just how naive / stupid those that wrote these rules have been....

 

....it doesn't reflect well on the individual Club's either, as they have voted them all through with little, or no, challenge.

 

That's why we've still got Doncaster!

 

An idiot employed by idiots, with a few exceptions.

[The Gasman]

That's why we've still got Doncaster!

 

An idiot employed by idiots, with a few exceptions.

I think Hearts were (emphasis on the past tense!) just as guilty of this as other Clubs were/are.

[Stuart G]

Paul Murray declared a fit and proper person according to STV twitter

[Alva-Jambo]

Paul Murray hasn't 47 convictions for tax evasion. 

 

But when it comes to King, I suspect two things :

  1,  the King tax misdemeanours were not UK tax misdemeanours.

2:  King paid up, , ie a huge fine, which probably, neutralises the " criminality" of it. 

 

These are not my view, but I would bet it will be the SFA's reasoning. 

[Deevers]

Had a feeling that Murray would get the green light. He left the previous board having fallen out with Whyte.

[Diadora Van Basten]

Had a feeling that Murray would get the green light. He left the previous board having fallen out with Whyte.

Exactly no reason why Murray should not be a FPP King on the other hand ......

[Strachsuit]

Will this be the SFA get-out, allow Murray but block King? If King gets through then the game's a bogey but let's see.

[Poseidon]

Anyone know if they've gone through the discussions with King as well (i.e. so to expect an announcement imminently) or whether we've got 3 days of discussion before we find out about King?

[flecktimus]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=3&newsID=14691

[Diadora Van Basten]

Anyone know if they've gone through the discussions with King as well (i.e. so to expect an announcement imminently) or whether we've got 3 days of discussion before we find out about King?

Big news on this thread has usually been announced on a Friday at about four o clock so it's possible it will be today.

[Angus Young]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1961&newsCategoryID=3&newsID=14 

 

 

No one was bothered about Pot Less Paul he is a nobody but the Lying King is not and should not be passed as a Fit And Proper Person.

[Riccarton3]

To allow King in sets a precedent which could ultimately be detrimental to other member clubs (as the level of criminality deemed acceptable is set) so to pass King the SFA will.not be acting in the best interest of all member clubs or Scottish football in general.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Riccarton3

[FWJ]

Big news on this thread has usually been announced on a Friday at about four o clock so it's possible it will be today.

Especially since it's a holiday weekend.

[Stuart Lyon]

I demand to be shown Murray's personal statement - where is the transparency on this for the fans. If it has persuaded the beaks then it should be shared with the fans of the member clubs.

[Angus Young]

I demand to be shown Murray's personal statement - where is the transparency on this for the fans. If it has persuaded the beaks then it should be shared with the fans of the member clubs.

 

 

Dont worry i am sure that Phil Mac ( funny name ) will be along soon with a copy and some story or other about their impending Doom

[Deevers]

The decision in this case will show if the SFA has any moral compass. If they allow King to become a director at Sevco the game here is really finished.

[redjambo]

 

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/319116-rangers-chairman-paul-murray-approved-as-fit-and-proper-by-scottish-fa/

 

Again? How many times do they need to do this?!

[Tasavallan]

Paul Murray is/was never the issue. The SFA will be judged on how the handle King's assertions that he is fit & proper.

[vegas-voss]

Why the **** can they not just say who is fit and proper at the same time.It's like let's keep the drama going.

[269miles]

Paul Murray is/was never the issue. The SFA will be judged on how the handle King's assertions that he is fit & proper.

This. He was and is a nobody. It's all about King - he has the SA criminal convictions hanging over him.

[Angus Young]

This. He was and is a nobody. It's all about King - he has the SA criminal convictions hanging over him.

 

 

As well as being a Glib and Shameless Liar ( he does not sound like a fit and proper person to me ) A Shameless Lying Tax Fraudster.

[redjambo]

This. He was and is a nobody. It's all about King - he has the SA criminal convictions hanging over him.

 

And, importantly, he has all the dosh (theoretically, anyway).

[redjambo]

I'd imagine their just being ultra cautious after C.Whyte's joke self assessment form debacle tbh. Murrays case is pretty straight forward, but Kings is a different matter as he actually has a criminal record for tax evasion in S.A, they prob just want to cover their arses in case there's something he hasn't declared to them through his legal team tbh..

 

Passing King will force his hand Re: Funds & Warchests etc, Ra peepul want action & off the radar investment or they'll have his head on a stick. But King 1st  needs to float sevco to get access to other peoples money to make this happen imo.

 

Sorry, my post was just a joke. The news had already been reported well up the thread and a poster reposted, yet again, the news item about the SFA's clearance of Murray in huge bold script.

 

Agree with what you say though! It will be pretty difficult to get Sevco listed again however in the short term, and that's when the dosh is needed.

[FarmerTweedy]

Staff costs ?7.1m, turnover ?13.1m. That's 54.2% wages to turnover, FIFA recommends up to 60% so they don't have a problem there. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32139467

 

What they do have a problem with is that there is clearly money elsewhere disappearing into black holes. So until we know the scale of the disappearing cash then there is no way to work out just how close to the brink they really are!

 

That's only 6 months' figures. Staff costs for the full year will, I suspect, be roughly double the half year figures, whereas I believe the full year's turnover will be substantially short of double the half year figures. 

 

You and Geoff both have points to an extent.  The numbers of players out of contract in the summer will, as Geoff says, give them flexibility to significantly reduce the staff costs, and therefore losses, without negatively impacting on the quality of the squad and results (in fact, they could save money and still improve).  They'll still be losing money overall though, as there are lots of other things costing them big money. They need a substantial increase in revenue as well as cost-cutting in order to get to breakeven. Probably somewhere in the region of 10,000 extra paying customers per game would do it, but I'm not sure where they'll get them from!

[FarmerTweedy]

Was the ?1.5m loan not expected to be enough to get them through last month and this..?

 

Though they're still losing tens of thousands a day, and will (I think) be once again running on fumes....

 

I could be wrong but I thought I read a while ago that they're already flogging season tickets for next season. If so, that would be bringing in a fair bit of cash to keep the lights on for the next two or three months.

[FarmerTweedy]

Big difference this time is that sevco will have at least 2 home games in the play offs and probably 3, hubz only had one.

 

Sevco cannae afford to not charge their season ticket holders, they are skint.

 

Unless they lose their first tie, in which case they'll only have one.

[FarmerTweedy]

I like the way their web site is heralding that BT Sport will show all 6 play off games - presuming Sevco are in all 6?

http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/9155-premiership-play-off-dates-confirmed

 

BT Sport are showing all 6 games, regardless of whether Sevco are in them. The article on the Sevco website is simply the SPFL press release.

[DETTY29]

Will be an interesting statement from the SFA re King if he is FPP.

 

The one on Murray focus on what he did / didn't do in the lead up to insolvency. He can basically say he always thought MG could cover any liabilities. Remember Alistair Johnston wanted Lloyd's to transfer Rangers ?30m debt to MG.

 

Not withstanding his tax convictions, King can argue the same re MG and while he is saying he challenged Whyte, the previous SFA tribunal slated the other directors including King. I wonder if the SFA statement will mention it's own tribunal.

 

Andrew Dickson is also a strange one. He should be approved FFP subject to Rangers never losing the BTC.

 

That is of course the SFA is happy for the Head of Football Operations Department which deliberately didn't disclose all documents having a formal board posution Another duped one no doubt.

Edited May 2, 2015 by DETTY29

[Angus Young]

Will be an interesting statement from the SFA re King if he is FPP.

 

The one on Murray focus on what he did / didn't do in the lead up to insolvency. He can basically say he always thought MG could cover any liabilities. Remember Alistair Johnston wanted Lloyd's to transfer Rangers ?30m debt to MG.

 

Not withstanding his tax convictions, King can argue the same re MG and while he is saying he challenged Whyte, the previous SFA tribunal slated the other directors including King. I wonder if the SFA statement will mention it's own tribunal.

 

Andrew Dickson is also a strange one. He should be approved FFP subject to Rangers never losing the BTC.

 

That is of course the SFA is happy for the Head of Football Operations Department which deliberately didn't disclose all documents having a formal board posution Another duped one no doubt.

 

 

King will use this refusal to be a FPP as the perfect excuse to walk away without ponying up a penny.

[jamboy1982]

I wonder if any of the players, for example mcculloch, has it written in his contract that if they get promoted they get an automatic contract renewal.

[Seymour M Hersh]

To allow King in sets a precedent which could ultimately be detrimental to other member clubs (as the level of criminality deemed acceptable is set) so to pass King the SFA will.not be acting in the best interest of all member clubs or Scottish football in general.

 

Ah but other clubs will fail when it comes to trying to get dodgy people through the FPP test (and rightly so ) so job's a good'un. As for acting in the best interest off Scottish Football, I'm still waiting to see out happen once. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

King will use this refusal to be a FPP as the perfect excuse to walk away without ponying up a penny.

 

The longer time has went on by since his 'takeover' the more I'm starting to think he doesn't want to get passed as it will force him to part with HIS own money.

[Dutchmul]

I could be wrong but I thought I read a while ago that they're already flogging season tickets for next season. If so, that would be bringing in a fair bit of cash to keep the lights on for the next two or three months.

 

Nope, they do not have season tickets on sale yet for next season, presumably waiting to find out if they are back in the top division so they can hike the prices up. If as has been reported the 3 stooges poneyed up another 1.5m unsecured loan to make the wages this week, then they currently owe 8m in loans for the last 6 months, that's their season ticket money gone before they spend it on anything else.

 

The longer time has went on by since his 'takeover' the more I'm starting to think he doesn't want to get passed as it will force him to part with HIS own money.

 

He could "invest" in sevco any time he wants, he doesn't need to be on the board to do that, he even said that himself before the egm, the fact that he hasn't put in a penny since his "victory" suggests to me that he won't put in his own money as he now realises it will disappear into the spivs pockets.