steve444 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adayinmay Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The writing is on the wall here. This default resulting in 7 day notice of NI is a result of TRIFC paying wages but not the tax. Wait until PAYE is demanded! That is still to come. This is exactly what Craig Whyte did. And look what happened. As pointed out earlier ... If they can't pay Hector then imagine what else hasn't been paid! The initial payment of ?425k from brentford had 250k held back by SPFL. Ashley has played his card and is sitting back. If they struggle on and finally go into admin (which they will) because of Inland Rev payments then Hector calls the shots in admin. If they go into admin before Inland Rev forces them to then they still have some slight control in admin and MA may not lose everything. That is the best scenario for them. I can't see them lasting the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The writing is on the wall here. This default resulting in 7 day notice of NI is a result of TRIFC paying wages but not the tax. Wait until PAYE is demanded! That is still to come. This is exactly what Craig Whyte did. And look what happened. As pointed out earlier ... If they can't pay Hector then imagine what else hasn't been paid! The initial payment of ?425k from brentford had 250k held back by SPFL. Ashley has played his card and is sitting back. If they struggle on and finally go into admin (which they will) because of Inland Rev payments then Hector calls the shots in admin. If they go into admin before Inland Rev forces them to then they still have some slight control in admin and MA may not lose everything. That is the best scenario for them. I can't see them lasting the week. Hector might have forced an admin event, but MASH will call all the shots as the biggest creditor? I think the Easedales have jumped ship in supporting MASH or to at least see themselves in a stronger position? the 3 berz would be better repaying the loan to MASH and take ownership of the loan, then they control an admin event while hector gets done over again? MASH still hold all the best cards at this time. Rangers however do need to be investigated for FFP rule breaches, as if STV have declared, the SFA/SPFL have not been informed of late payment, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Grant Russell ?@STVGrant 1m1 minute ago STV understands the SPFL has sought clarity from Rangers over possible rule breach over claims of an overdue tax bill http://bit.ly/1BpW5j4 "listen we need clarity" "we thought you might call. We're all set" "ok thanks. Have a good day" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Wonder how much money Somers was looking for when sending begging bowl emails out at 4am? And for what purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo66 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 They are now staring a 30 point deduction in the face - 5 points if they are guilty of defaulting on the tax payment, and 25 if they go into administration. They might be better off going into administration before the SPFL deals with the tax issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamos Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Like this you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The writing is on the wall here. This default resulting in 7 day notice of NI is a result of TRIFC paying wages but not the tax. Wait until PAYE is demanded! That is still to come. This is exactly what Craig Whyte did. And look what happened. As pointed out earlier ... If they can't pay Hector then imagine what else hasn't been paid! The initial payment of ?425k from brentford had 250k held back by SPFL. Ashley has played his card and is sitting back. If they struggle on and finally go into admin (which they will) because of Inland Rev payments then Hector calls the shots in admin. If they go into admin before Inland Rev forces them to then they still have some slight control in admin and MA may not lose everything. That is the best scenario for them. I can't see them lasting the week. Surely all they would need is another loan and they will be fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Grant Russell ?@STVGrant 1m1 minute ago STV understands the SPFL has sought clarity from Rangers over possible rule breach over claims of an overdue tax bill http://bit.ly/1BpW5j4 "listen we need clarity" "we thought you might call. We're all set" "ok thanks. Have a good day" wouldn't be at all surprised if this is how the conversation goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Bears den on lockdown ? Getting media server error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Pleasing news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Aren't N.I and PAYE for wages paid up to 30th Nov due at HMRC on Wed 7th Jan ?. I've lived abroad for some years now so I couldn't say to be honest. My point was that demand letters are never sent out when everything's up to date - 100% some sort of missed payment has prompted this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Roddy Forsyth using "frantically trying to avoid an unbeliavable second insolvency event in 3 years' If Roddy is worried.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Surely all they would need is another loan and they will be fine? Who will the loan be from, how will they pay it back and what will be given in security? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If this US basketball owner is serious about buying Rangers why not wait until another admin ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Surely though if they are about to goto the wall then the people who have just spent a rather large sum of money on buying shares would give them a loan on the basis that keeping them afloat until the boardroom is sorted is better than losing out on all the money they have just pumped in to getting the shares. You cant tell me they have bought shares and didnt know that the club was in that bad a position or if they did I would be amazed. It does show that MA wasnt interested in bailing them out and if they went into Admin he was content with getting his cash back. Edited January 5, 2015 by Jamboelite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This sarver story is just a squirrel to take everyones eyes off the tax story isn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Its heating up chaps. MA has clearly done his Dragons Den "im out" routine. I'm not so sure he's out. He seems far to canny to have upped his shareholding a few months ago simply to walk away now. He's got security on his ?3m and it seems in his best (only) interests to safeguard the retail contracts which are the real money spinner for him. Perhaps it's all chicken feed to him and he can't believe just how imbecilic his fellow spivs are; perhaps he will just say "feck it!" and wander off into the sunset. However, I'd expect at least one final play to avoid admin and the ensuing tearing up of those contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Wonder how much money Somers was looking for when sending begging bowl emails out at 4am? And for what purpose? But, but, but......before he did that , that American bloke had already offered to buy the whole shebang and Somers told him to do one. Right ? Edited January 5, 2015 by 269miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djg001 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Roddy Forsyth using "frantically trying to avoid an unbeliavable second insolvency event in 3 years' If Roddy is worried.... First insolvency event!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Is this the same thing as what livingston received a 5 point deduction for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adayinmay Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This sarver story is just a squirrel to take everyones eyes off the tax story isn't it ? Yes. It's also (IMO) a ploy to hike the share price. I reckon MA is behind this apparent interest so it forces the 3bears and Kingbto have to pay over the odds for shares. The share price is now 30% higher than what they paid for last week. It may scare them off enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaka Demus & pliers Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Keith Jackson saying that the SPFL are satisfied that the rule has not been broken. Edited January 5, 2015 by Chaka Demus & pliers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straightfromtheheart Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 User Actions Following keith jackson?@tedermeatballs SPFL satisfied Rangers are NOT guilty of breach of rule E20 on defaulting on NI payments. Curiouser and curiouser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 User Actions Following keith jackson?@tedermeatballs SPFL satisfied Rangers are NOT guilty of breach of rule E20 on defaulting on NI payments. Curiouser and curiouser. So that's it then? They got away with it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 So, without being too sceptical, would this HMRC wind-up order be a coincedence so soon after Doncaster's ramblings the other day? I read Doncaster's message as a clear warning if they go down a certain route, then they would certainly face a 25 point deduction rather than 15 as he views them as the same club, which to be fair, is quite correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8skacel8 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) What is the punishment for failing to declare it ? Embargo and fine ? (which seems ridiculous if money is your issue) or can they get a points deduction ? I know Livi did but there issue appears to be slightly different or maybe not. Give us 5 more points of a lead please SPFL and we can have this done by end of Feb They also have further issues to answer at the end of Jan as well, short term they are absolutely hanging on. Edit clearly it doesnt matter as its been swept under the carpet. Edited January 5, 2015 by Jamboelite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 45] He is even saying himself their that the whole thing is bullshit from the sfa/spfl User Actions Followingkeith jackson?@tedermeatballs SPFL satisfied Rangers are NOT guilty of breach of rule E20 on defaulting on NI payments. Curiouser and curiouser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 What would that sack know. I assume someone in the SPFL has told him its fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 User Actions Following keith jackson?@tedermeatballs SPFL satisfied Rangers are NOT guilty of breach of rule E20 on defaulting on NI payments. Curiouser and curiouser. But they are also up to date on VAT too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambos1983 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Surely though if they are about to goto the wall then the people who have just spent a rather large sum of money on buying shares would give them a loan on the basis that keeping them afloat until the boardroom is sorted is better than losing out on all the money they have just pumped in to getting the shares. You cant tell me they have bought shares and didnt know that the club was in that bad a position or if they did I would be amazed. It does show that MA wasnt interested in bailing them out and if they went into Admin he was content with getting his cash back. Exactly. No way they'll want admin after spending that sort of cash. They may well get a points deduction if they havent declared a late payment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Keith Jackson saying that the SPFL are satisfied that the rule has not been broken. The key is probably that they have to be over 28 days behind. If this is just December's payment then that aren't? Suppose it depends what day on December I was due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The key is probably that they have to be over 28 days behind. If this is just December's payment then that aren't? Suppose it depends what day on December I was due. I'd be surprised if a wind up order could be threatned unless a club was at least 28 days overdue payment on tax due, but I dont know what such payment terms are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghoehle Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 There's no way they will go into admin again any time soon. There's too much interest and too many big money guys with a lot of money in to the club. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5698 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 PAYE and NIC payments for the month of November would be due by 19th December if paying by post and 22nd December if paying online/dd out of the bank. I would suggest they have missed the 22nd December payment and been sent this letter. Unfortunately they are not outwith the 28 days late payment according to the rules of the SPFL. The question begs though did they let them know within the two day rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 PAYE and NIC payments for the month of November would be due by 19th December if paying by post and 22nd December if paying online/dd out of the bank. I would suggest they have missed the 22nd December payment and been sent this letter. Unfortunately they are not outwith the 28 days late payment according to the rules of the SPFL. The question begs though did they let them know within the two day rule.THe rules state that if you are late, then you must inform the football authorities within 2 days, by getting a 7 day letter, then they must have been well past that date? yet somehow the SPFL don't think they are guilty? Livi and Hibs should be all over this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 By the way, if SPFL is reliant on self reporting for non-payment of players wages, Sevco will never fess up to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straightfromtheheart Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) if HMRC's 7 day notice is deemed as giving them 7 days time to pay would it fall under rule e21? E21 Rules E20.1 to E20.4 (inclusive) shall not, for so long as the Club concerned complies with its obligations in terms of the relevant Time to Pay Agreement, apply to any arrears of Tax Liabilities (?Arrears?) which are or become included as part of a Time to Pay Agreement. However, any failure by a Club to comply with its obligations in terms of a Time to Pay Agreement shall be a Default Event in terms of Rule E20.5. Edited January 5, 2015 by Straightfromtheheart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 By the way, if SPFL is reliant on self reporting for non-payment of players wages, Sevco will never fess up to that.Rangers have stated that it was not used to pay late NIC/PAYE so somebody inside the club is lying, because the source came from inside ?1brox, to make the Driscolls look like good guys by paying the tax bill? If the SPFL take them at their word, then hell mend them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 THe rules state that if you are late, then you must inform the football authorities within 2 days, by getting a 7 day letter, then they must have been well past that date? yet somehow the SPFL don't think they are guilty? Livi and Hibs should be all over this? From the STV article... PFL rules require clubs to declare if they are more than 28 days behind on paying tax, within two days of a default occurring. So, if they are not 28 days late then the 2 day rule does not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5698 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 What I was getting at is they should have informed the SPFL by 24th December at the latest as they will have known the payment from their bank account had not been authourised, so presumably Doncaster must have known by 24th December that this payment had not been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 What I was getting at is they should have informed the SPFL by 24th December at the latest as they will have known the payment from their bank account had not been authourised, so presumably Doncaster must have known by 24th December that this payment had not been made. But they didn't have to inform them. They were only a few days late - they only have to inform them once they are 28 days late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 And yet, miraculously Jackson's managed to ascertain that the SPFL are ok about it, when not one single other news outlet has backed up this claim. Excuse me that I find that hard to give credence to. " Sorry BBC, we only give exclusives to Keith I'm afraid." Nah. Not having it, especially from him. Rangers are late. STV : http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/305416-spfl-seek-answers-from-rangers-over-claims-of-late-payment-of-tax/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john5698 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 But they didn't have to inform them. They were only a few days late - they only have to inform them once they are 28 days late. So the two day rule is after being twenty eight days late not two days after they knew they were late with the payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 As in reply to Farin: Oh, well. Can't win 'em all. Yeah sorry missed hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Nice of the Spfl to clear this up so quickly. http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/rangers/305416-spfl-seek-answers-from-rangers-over-claims-of-late-payment-of-tax/ Thats probably a denial thats been sitting on someones hard drive for 2 or 3 years waiting to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 This sarver story is just a squirrel to take everyones eyes off the tax story isn't it ? I was wondering whether it wasn't just a complete smokescreen, which they can use as justification for for carrying on trading whilst insolvent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Why would some American with no apparent connections want to buy The Rangers as it stands? I think Detty mentioned it earlier, but ex Rangers and Aberdeen full back David Robertson is a boys club coach in Phoenix and may have coached Sarver's laddies. http://www.serenosoccer.com/coaches/davidrobertson/index_E.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Good to see that Dundee Utd are ready to pay their bills on time. Tyrone Smith ?@TyroneSTV ? 2m2 minutes agoStephen Thompson says Rangers will get the money they?re due for Charlie Telfer on time, after getting a reminder from the Ibrox club today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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