Dallas Green Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Mods close this thread. It's boring now. As bad as .net Embarrassing. Etc. Great stuff. This. I mean, look at all the guff and lies being spread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Can somebody explain these last couple posts to me? They've no real creditors other than themselves so they'd wind the football club/company up, transfer ownership of the assets to the parent compant RIFC(?) and then I guess sell the shell of the football club to someone that wants to take it on? Edited February 17, 2014 by Allez Rossoneri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think I am getting a bit moist bodyform for youuuuuuu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 So in your opinion FF what if any will be the impact on Rangers case for reinstatement if CF's material is proven ? Highly unlikely that they would be re-instated. As I said in an earlier post, RFC were already on the precipice before Whyte opened the door for the Spivs. The court case will only be concerned with the takeover and maybe up to the pre-administration period so none of CF's disclosures re post administration events will be discussed in open court. However, today's decision should leave the door open for the hacks to start making it uncomfortable for CO, SR and ND. Whether or not they choose to do so is a different question as their are too many "rangers minded" people in the SMSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Even if the takeover was fraudulent how would that make a case for "Rangers" reinstatement to the SP(F)L? Cuz it wid and thats aw that maiters. Thay ara peepel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Mods close this thread. It's boring now. As bad as .net Embarrassing. Etc. Great stuff. It's a conspiracy lolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I would treat the Charlotte2Weeks tweets with a large dose of scepticism until there is some corroboration. My gut feel is that it is a fake account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Here's a short report on today's court proceedings from James Doleman http://www.thedrum.c...o-rangers-trial 'Charlotte Fakes' material ruled admissible in ?28m Oldco Rangers trial Secret recordings released by the anonymous @CharlotteFakes Twitter account can be given in evidence in a ?28m legal action brought by the liquidators of Oldco Rangers against Craig Whyte?s former lawyers, a judge ruled today. The suit against Collyer Bristow centres on claims that the legal firm, which acted for former Rangers owner Craig Whyte, is partially responsible for the subsequent administration and liquidation of the company and is alleged to have been involved in conspiracy, negligence and breach of trust. Collyer Bristow denies the accusations and suggests all it did was assist its client in a normal "leveraged takeover". The "Charlotte" material in question consists of voice recordings involving Whyte and others involved in the takeover. Cyril Kinsky QC, for Collyer Bristow, told the pre-trial hearing at the Royal Courts of Justice that much of the media had decided that the material "may have been unlawfully obtained" and that in a "post-Leveson world the press are not as fulsome as they were in the past." However the QC showed the court postings from football blogs and other "chatter on the web" discussing the recordings and argued that this consisted of publication and therefore confidentiality was lost. Responding for the claimants, Mark Phillips QC told the judge that police objections to using the material had been dropped on 13 February and that Craig Whyte himself had emailed stating he had no issue with the tapes being used in evidence. Phillips did argue that that tape transcripts should be partially redacted to remove any references to confidential legal advice given to Whyte as this was covered by privilege. The presiding judge, Mr Justice Newey, agreed that the material was relevant and admissible and ordered that an edited transcript of the recordings be made available to the court. In the wake of the judge's decision, questions were already being asked if it would lead to a change of attitude by the Scottish media to the "Charlotte" revelations which they have been so far reluctant to publish. Alex Thomson, chief correspondent for Channel 4 News, tweeted: "So - finally some of the Charlotte Fakes material may be legally published by the MSM." The full trial is due to begin in January 2015 with Cohen & Stephen (the liquidators of Rangers FC), Trustees of the Jerome Group plc Pension Fund and HMRC all expected to be represented in court. Edited February 17, 2014 by Footballfirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
269miles Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Speaking to a Rangers fan at the weekend and he seems to think the CF stuff inclusion would be good for Rangers, it'll prove a fraudulent take over and the club will make a case against the SFA for reinstatement into the SPL. My complete lack of knowledge left me open to this debate as ridiculous as it seemed - whats the scoop from the experts ?? How do you reinstate a bankrupt , soon to be liquidated, company ? As someone else has posted, it's not the takeover that may be fraudulent but the manner of the funding of it . I think. Anyways, looks like exciting times in the court case. SMSM can't ignore this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 "chatter on the web...confidentiality lost" Love it. Maybe not a legal precedent but a small victory for fan scrutiny and freedom of speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian Primrose Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Speaking to a Rangers fan at the weekend and he seems to think the CF stuff inclusion would be good for Rangers, it'll prove a fraudulent take over and the club will make a case against the SFA for reinstatement into the SPL. My complete lack of knowledge left me open to this debate as ridiculous as it seemed - whats the scoop from the experts ?? be happy for Rangers to get reinstated to the top flight. would give us a better chance of promotion next season and by the time we do get back up, the league would have a sponsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 The full trial is due to begin in January 2015 with Cohen & Stephen (the liquidators of Rangers FC), Trustees of the Jerome Group plc Pension Fund and HMRC all expected to be represented in court. My pop corn will be off by 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottish_chicP Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 be happy for Rangers to get reinstated to the top flight. would give us a better chance of promotion next season and by the time we do get back up, the league would have a sponsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Cuz it wid and thats aw that maiters. Thay ara peepel. Maybe we can get our 15 points reinstated if our admin was related to fraudulent activity by Vlad? No, thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Sevco to into Members Voluntary LiquidationBy end of the month. Have already seen the doc that by scots company law has to be posted in the Edinburgh Gazette. Will leave them Debt free and with Ibrox etc placed out of reach in the holding company. Explains why all those rules were changed last week and only paper to semi report it was the telegraph. Not sure I follow this rumour.... they don't have any debt, do they? Just rapidly dwindling cash reserves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Full info here.. http://m.thedrum.com...o-rangers-trial Hmfc the team for me ... comments section laughable with orcs defending themselves and claiming the crime was against THEM hahahahaha... oh and our old friend from here right at the top of it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 [/background][/size][/font][/color] Not sure I follow this rumour.... they don't have any debt, do they? Just rapidly dwindling cash reserves... Insolvency is driven more by cash flow than debt. There is numerous examples of relatively debt free businesses going bust due to running low of ready cash to meet their ongoing obligations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 comments section laughable with orcs defending themselves and claiming the crime was against THEM hahahahaha... oh and our old friend from here right at the top of it all for the love of god bryceyboy is still defending that stance! Where do these people find the energy to keep going over the same ground over and over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 for the love of god bryceyboy is still defending that stance! Where do these people find the energy to keep going over the same ground over and over and over again. . Looking forward to the s**t hitting the fan for them. The smug arrogance of most of the Huns I know really knows no bounds. MOst of them have been particularly unkind in their comments about us and the position we've found ourselves in. They deserve to suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 How quickly could a club get out of administration? If Rangers went into admin in the coming weeks could they easily be out before the first game of next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) How quickly could a club get out of administration? If Rangers went into admin in the coming weeks could they easily be out before the first game of next season? As long as the true ownership of the fixed assets was known - if however there was any sort of litigation due involving them, that of course would put it back until that was settled. Edited February 17, 2014 by Deevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 How quickly could a club get out of administration? If Rangers went into admin in the coming weeks could they easily be out before the first game of next season? To be honest - that's my worry. A quick turnaround could see them do well. Then again - 25 point deduction and a massive cull of players could result in them not being promoted. I want them to survive till the season ends and the punishment can be applied for season 14/15. It'll be 25points because they insisted they were not a new club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 To be honest - that's my worry. A quick turnaround could see them do well. Then again - 25 point deduction and a massive cull of players could result in them not being promoted. I want them to survive till the season ends and the punishment can be applied for season 14/15. It'll be 25points because they insisted they were not a new club. I think even with a -25 point reduction and release quite a few players they will still get promoted as there is little serious challenge to them. -25 points, cull in decent players, transfer embargo and Ally McCoist in charge makes it much harder for them next season to get promoted, and makes it much easier for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.S. Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Rangers will come out of this laughing Theyll be promoted and carry on debt free having slipped through all the loop holes made for them by the sfa and by the other clubs in the spfl who continue to think not having them in the top flight is armagedon. Look at how both ourselves and dunfermline have taken our punishments as per the rules and contrast it to what has and will happen to them. A fan revolt is all that can stop this mass cheating. It wont happen though as the media will continue their pro rangers propaganda and the rest of us will accept our place at the bottom of the pile. Read onfieldsofgreen.com Tell me your blood doesnt boil after reading it. I could rant on and on about this but it really is futile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorski Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Rangers will come out of this laughing Theyll be promoted and carry on debt free having slipped through all the loop holes made for them by the sfa and by the other clubs in the spfl who continue to think not having them in the top flight is armagedon. Look at how both ourselves and dunfermline have taken our punishments as per the rules and contrast it to what has and will happen to them. A fan revolt is all that can stop this mass cheating. It wont happen though as the media will continue their pro rangers propaganda and the rest of us will accept our place at the bottom of the pile. Read onfieldsofgreen.com Tell me your blood doesnt boil after reading it. I could rant on and on about this but it really is futile Thanks for the link. I had never been on the site before. Already read two articles, "The End of Rangers" and "Manchester: A View FromThe Ground". Doesn't make my blood boil though. I found both articles to be really interesting and informative. Thanks again. Not a lot of Hearts content that I can see though. Claims to be about Scottish football but appears to have a Celtic slant to it. On the whole though, really interesting so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorski Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Need to revise my last post slightly. Now reading "Sticking It To Us". Blood level getting warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Need to revise my last post slightly. Now reading "Sticking It To Us". Blood level getting warm. I know I'll regret this, but... can you give us a hint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorski Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I know I'll regret this, but... can you give us a hint? Nothing that is not already being said on here. Go on to the site and read the article "Sticking It To Us". I'm halfway through it. It's basically making the case really well that with the new SFA rules about admin, it effectively allows Rangers to continue to spend money they don't have in order to secure titles. The author is also expanding upon that point of view by talking about all the other ways in which the non Rangers punter is being shafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorski Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Afore-mentioned article ends on a good point which is relevant to us. "Next season two teams will meet in the Scottish Championship, battling it out for a place in our top-flight. One of them will have been relegated because of a fifteen point deduction. The other will have been promoted in spite of a 25 point "penalty"." And how did they manage to accumulate enough points that a 25 point penalty didn't matter? By spending money that they didn't have of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Nothing that is not already being said on here. Go on to the site and read the article "Sticking It To Us". I'm halfway through it. It's basically making the case really well that with the new SFA rules about admin, it effectively allows Rangers to continue to spend money they don't have in order to secure titles. The author is also expanding upon that point of view by talking about all the other ways in which the non Rangers punter is being shafted. Thanks. I'll maybe have a wee squint at it later. I was a bit put off by the "Celtic slant" bit to be honest. My biggest gripe about the Rangers situation has been the Celtic attitude, that they have been wronged more than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Afore-mentioned article ends on a good point which is relevant to us. "Next season two teams will meet in the Scottish Championship, battling it out for a place in our top-flight. One of them will have been relegated because of a fifteen point deduction. The other will have been promoted in spite of a 25 point "penalty"." And how did they manage to accumulate enough points that a 25 point penalty didn't matter? By spending money that they didn't have of course. Every football suportar in Scotland should read that article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks. I'll maybe have a wee squint at it later. I was a bit put off by the "Celtic slant" bit to be honest. My biggest gripe about the Rangers situation has been the Celtic attitude, that they have been wronged more than anyone else. It came across like Hibs.net the website, a Celtic site where around half of the articles are about Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorski Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 It came across like Hibs.net the website, a Celtic site where around half of the articles are about Rangers. I'd say that it is a slightly more articulate site than that. Although obviously that hardly constitutes a glowing endorsement. The writers do at least attempt to consider the subject of Scottish football as a whole. Their respect for Scottish football and their concern for it appears to be genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 It came across like Hibs.net the website, a Celtic site where around half of the articles are about Rangers. Don't think I'd enjoy reading that very much, to be honest. I may despise Rangers but I feel no kinship with those other leaches because of that. Indistinguishable from one another as far as I'm concerned. Cheers for the heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I'd say that it is a slightly more articulate site than that. Although obviously that hardly constitutes a glowing endorsement. The writers do at least attempt to consider the subject of Scottish football as a whole. Their respect for Scottish football and their concern for it appears to be genuine. Celtic fans are rarely looking at whats best for the Scottish football. They view the whole of Scottish football in them and Rangers, the messages you see in support of FoH are always carrying a dig at Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I notice on that forum that our favourite pet Orc Hun Bear arsehole Bryce9A is still giving it the big 'un, blaming all and sundry for their woes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Green Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I notice on that forum that our favourite pet Orc Hun Bear arsehole Bryce9A is still giving it the big 'un, blaming all and sundry for their woes. Top class roaster that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 In general I've found the "Celtic slanted" blogs much easier reading that those of the "Rangers minded" blogs when discussing Rangers and related matters. Certainly, James Forrest, Andy Muirhead, Paul Brennan and the late Paul McConville have made much more articulate and accurate contributions to the Rangers debate than the WATP writings of Chris Graham and Bill McMurdo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortyJambo Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Afore-mentioned article ends on a good point which is relevant to us. "Next season two teams will meet in the Scottish Championship, battling it out for a place in our top-flight. One of them will have been relegated because of a fifteen point deduction and a signing ban. The other will have been promoted in spite of a 25 point "penalty" and a signing ban postponed until after they'd signed whoever they wanted." And how did they manage to accumulate enough points that a 25 point penalty didn't matter? By spending money that they didn't have of course. Fixed that for them. The signing ban has arguably had more impact on our current position than the points deduction. I don't disagree with the deduction or ban, the punishments are there for a reason. It's galling however that another team has been able to circumvent the rules to their own benefit, and would have circumvented them even more (staying in the SPL) with the help of the authorities if it hadn't been for the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk and Chance Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 In general I've found the "Celtic slanted" blogs much easier reading that those of the "Rangers minded" blogs when discussing Rangers and related matters. Certainly, James Forrest, Andy Muirhead, Paul Brennan and the late Paul McConville have made much more articulate and accurate contributions to the Rangers debate than the WATP writings of Chris Graham and Bill McMurdo. I've found your contributions and postings more insightful and useful than anything else I've seen tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 We were punished for not paying our wages on time, quite rightly, and we did everything to get wages back under control, we were still punished. Rangers have the second highest playing staff wage bill in the country, but the biggest management wage bill, and what they pay directors is just off the scale. Running out of cash is plan A, A total Brewsters millions job, If they get to a point where they cant pay wages then the punishment we have should just be the start, You will be doing them a favour by applying these rules which will put off another set of spivs coming in, if they are forced to have a wage cap, reduced squad size and under 21's only. I am not talking about admin punishment but financial doping punishment. The second they cant pay wage staff then surely the last two leagues have been won unfairly, how can we allow them promotion when its been bought with money they just did not have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 ....If they get to a point where they cant pay wages then the punishment we have should just be the start.... I agree with the bulk of your post HtH, but you need to remember that the first time we failed to pay wages, the only "punishment" we received was a censure - we only really got done for being repeat offenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I've found your contributions and postings more insightful and useful than anything else I've seen tbh Agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I agree with the bulk of your post HtH, but you need to remember that the first time we failed to pay wages, the only "punishment" we received was a censure - we only really got done for being repeat offenders. The difference is we had funding stopped from Lithuania, and went self sufficient, we were openly and clearly demonstrating that we were getting spending under control. It only failed because our owners went bust and took a large bulk of season ticket money with them. Yes we had cash flow problems big style, but things were heading in the right direction. Rangers however are spending ?1m per calendar month more than they are bringing in, they have no credit facilities bills will start pilling up, even Wonga wont touch them, it wont be about cash flow just no cash what so ever to fund their lavish lifestyle, Carnoustie for a midweek game, when the league is already won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) In general I've found the "Celtic slanted" blogs much easier reading that those of the "Rangers minded" blogs when discussing Rangers and related matters. Certainly, James Forrest, Andy Muirhead, Paul Brennan and the late Paul McConville have made much more articulate and accurate contributions to the Rangers debate than the WATP writings of Chris Graham and Bill McMurdo. Exactly - The Rangers fans would have done well to have taken heed of Celtic 'minded ones'. McConville especially because he took a legal mind to both that of both Scots Law and the football authorities articles and rules. I'd imagine if you had to ask your bulk standard Orc about him and well, I think you could guess. Indeed he was the most high profile person from the Celtic minded to folk to say that Rangers wouldn't have honours stripped. And back to the Rangers minded bloggers - Maybe one day the Rangers fans will realise their masses are by far their own worst enemy. One thing about both sides though has to be the cretenous posts that follow the original blogs in pretty much equal measure. I was always surprised McConville didn't moderate / ban more folk but he did seem to go down the free speech route. Maybe it was just to show how moronic these folk are. Edited February 18, 2014 by DETTY29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Rangers Tax Case was a groundbreaking blog. Its successor, The Scottish Football Monitor should just rename itself The Sevco Football Monitor. With the exception of Charlotte Fakes, it has been awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) The difference is we had funding stopped from Lithuania, and went self sufficient, we were openly and clearly demonstrating that we were getting spending under control. It only failed because our owners went bust and took a large bulk of season ticket money with them. Yes we had cash flow problems big style, but things were heading in the right direction. Rangers however are spending ?1m per calendar month more than they are bringing in, they have no credit facilities bills will start pilling up, even Wonga wont touch them, it wont be about cash flow just no cash what so ever to fund their lavish lifestyle, Carnoustie for a midweek game, when the league is already won Is there any evidence that money was syphoned off to Lithuania / Russia / Switzerland / Cayman Islands or wherever? I do agree the bit about going bust as UBIG/UKIO could no longer fund our losses but I still believe we were miles off a break even point. We could have made break even at best if there was no capital or interest repayments on the c?25m due to UKIO/UBIG which had started to take effect near the end of the regime against the earlier capitalisation and writte off(s). . Edited February 18, 2014 by DETTY29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Is there any evidence that money was syphoned off to Lithuania / Russia / Switzerland / Cayman Islands or wherever? I do agree the bit about going bust as UBIG/UKIO could no longer fund our losses but I still believe we were miles off a break even point. We could have made break even at best if there was no capital or interest repayments on the c?25m due to UKIO/UBIG which had started to take effect near the end of the regime against the earlier capitalisation and writte off(s). . Absolutely this. No money was siphoned off, we were that much of a basket case that we were still a fair way from break even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Absolutely this. No money was siphoned off, we were that much of a basket case that we were still a fair way from break even thats as may be, but we were clearly and demonstrably TRYING to muddle through and get spending under control. Not an easy thing to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Is there any evidence that money was syphoned off to Lithuania / Russia / Switzerland / Cayman Islands or wherever? I do agree the bit about going bust as UBIG/UKIO could no longer fund our losses but I still believe we were miles off a break even point. We could have made break even at best if there was no capital or interest repayments on the c?25m due to UKIO/UBIG which had started to take effect near the end of the regime against the earlier capitalisation and writte off(s). That is certainly my understanding. The early season ticket money was spent as soon as it came in to avoid an insolvency event. It delayed the inevitable, but it never left the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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