niblick1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Arf! Listening to Clyde 1, the patter is they'll be fine once the SEESUN TIKIT MUNNEY comes in. Spivs gonna spiv. They'll be fleeced time and time again. You think that is pleasing? It is Scottish football ( you and I ) that they are fleecing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 You think that is pleasing? It is Scottish football ( you and I ) that they are fleecing. Since Orcs don't give two shiney shites about Scottish football, hell mend them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 How long will the ST money last? How many Orcs will dare buy one if the only money coming in is a measly ?1.5m in the form of a loan also will they be able to cut the ?1m loss per month if the players are not playing ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Since Orcs don't give two shiney shites about Scottish football, hell mend them. And you don't think that they can, are, and will f+++ over Scottish football just because they can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salvo69 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 What is a spiv? I am also interested to know what the players do for the rest of the season if admin 2 happens? Would they do walking away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 What is a spiv? I am also interested to know what the players do for the rest of the season if admin 2 happens? Would they do walking away I always think of Pvt. Walker from Dads Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 What is a spiv? I am also interested to know what the players do for the rest of the season if admin 2 happens? Would they do walking away from dictionary.com spiv (sp?v) n 1. Brit a person who makes a living by underhand dealings or swindling; black marketeer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 What is a spiv? I am also interested to know what the players do for the rest of the season if admin 2 happens? Would they do walking away That question should be directed at the ones that run the SFA, However, a spiv in this context is someone that is in it to screw over Scottish football for their own greed with the help of the SFA. Your second question can only be answered when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 And you don't think that they can, are, and will f+++ over Scottish football just because they can? The people dicking with football in Scotland are the football authorities by applying different sets of rules. The Orcs feeling wronged is a symptom of that, not the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Arf! Listening to Clyde 1, the patter is they'll be fine once the SEESUN TIKIT MUNNEY comes in. Spivs gonna spiv. They'll be fleeced time and time again. This could be part of the plan, leak the news that they are getting ?1.5m loan, make it sound like its a sensible thing which will safeguard the future of Rangers (instead of question marks about how sustainable this is) so fans feel positive, buy season tickets and the money comes in, but they are still leaking money badly, are they going to get rid of many in the summer? Is there anyone out of contract in the summer? The fans will demand new signings so they can the board withstand the pressure for similar signings, rather than cheap unglamorous signings which is what they need. I think they will struggle. I think what will happen is they will keep admin from the door into the middle of next season then collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Got to admit, this is not as fun as it used to be. Whyte seems full of it and that's a fair sum of money they've just landed. For a while now I haven't seen much to suggest they won't be just fine in the long run. Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Got to admit, this is not as fun as it used to be. Whyte seems full of it and that's a fair sum of money they've just landed. For a while now I haven't seen much to suggest they won't be just fine in the long run. Shame. A fair sum of money? To most clubs perhaps but it will only last a couple of months at their burn rate. What is a spiv? I am also interested to know what the players do for the rest of the season if admin 2 happens? Would they do walking away An admin event wouldn't allow them to walk away. It would require a second liquidation which would sever the ties with the players (unless they are wanted by and happy to join newco2 of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) The people dicking with football in Scotland are the football authorities by applying different sets of rules. The Orcs feeling wronged is a symptom of that, not the cause. They are one and the same, along with the MSM. That is apparent. What is not, to some, is that the ones that are at the top of Scottish football will throw themselves on their own sward and walk away.with the payoff from you know who. Spivtastick? Edited February 20, 2014 by niblick1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Got to admit, this is not as fun as it used to be. Whyte seems full of it and that's a fair sum of money they've just landed. For a while now I haven't seen much to suggest they won't be just fine in the long run. Shame. Ticketus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 A fair sum of money? To most clubs perhaps but it will only last a couple of months at their burn rate. An admin event wouldn't allow them to walk away. It would require a second liquidation which would sever the ties with the players (unless they are wanted by and happy to join newco2 of course) The money only needs to last until they sell next years season tickets, they will reduce outlay on the team so player wages are about 25% of turnover, the variety of owners will fleece them for the rest but they won't vanish... No chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The money only needs to last until they sell next years season tickets, they will reduce outlay on the team so player wages are about 25% of turnover, the variety of owners will fleece them for the rest but they won't vanish... No chance How are they going to get the wage bill down that much? Are most of the squad out of contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 How are they going to get the wage bill down that much? Are most of the squad out of contract? It's only 30% of turnover now.. The rest of the money has disappeared into the spivs pockets... They just milked the cow a little too much this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.S. Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Id hazard a guess that theres been a meeting between wallace and the spfl board where the board agreed to help by sneaking in the new "liquidation doesnt matter" clause. Why else was such a rule brought in under the radar. Its a major change to the rules that goes against all the financial fair play stuff thats supposedly the new mantra around european football. And scotland wants independence. We cant even run a fair football league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil D. Corners Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 How are they going to get the wage bill down that much? Are most of the squad out of contract? That's what I'm thinking. What are they going to do and when are they going to start doing it. The current actions of the board defi logic. (Not sure if I buy the whole controlled Admin stuff.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 It's only 30% of turnover now.. The rest of the money has disappeared into the spivs pockets... They just milked the cow a little too much this year. How much of the other costs can easily be reduced immediately though? I'm not convinced anyone outwith Rangers knows the answer to that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I And scotland wants independence. We cant even run a fair football league. What? Maybe if we were, we would have the chance to do just that. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) That's what I'm thinking. What are they going to do and when are they going to start doing it. The current actions of the board defi logic. (Not sure if I buy the whole controlled Admin stuff.) Just had a look at transfermarkt.co.uk to get an idea on Rangers contracts. Nearly all contracts dont seem to end this summer: Lee Wallace - 2017 Cammy Bell - 2017 Sebastion Faure - 2015 Lee McCulloch - 2015 Bilel Moshni - 2015 Steven Smith - 2015 Ricky Foster - 2015 Ian Black - 2015 Arnold Peralta - 2017 David Templeton - 2016 Nicky Law - 2016 Dean Shiels - 2016 Andy Little - 2015 Jon Daly - 2015 Nicky Clark - 2016 There appears only to be five players who are out of contract at the end of the season: Steve Simonson, Cribari, Alan Smith (20 year old goalkeeper,) Kyle Hutton and Kamil Wiktorski (20 year old.) Not easy to make drastic reductions, they got to hope people will buy Rangers players. Edited February 20, 2014 by jamboinglasgow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 It's only 30% of turnover now.. The rest of the money has disappeared into the spivs pockets... They just milked the cow a little too much this year. Thought that 30% was just the players' wages. Aren't the total wages at the club are a much greater percentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Just had a look at transfermarkt.co.uk to get an idea on Rangers contracts. Nearly all contracts dont seem to end this summer: Lee Wallace - 2017 Cammy Bell - 2017 Sebastion Faure - 2015 Lee McCulloch - 2015 Bilel Moshni - 2015 Steven Smith - 2015 Ricky Foster - 2015 Ian Black - 2015 Arnold Peralta - 2017 David Templeton - 2016 Nicky Law - 2016 Dean Shiels - 2016 Andy Little - 2015 Jon Daly - 2015 Nicky Clark - 2016 There appears only to be five players who are out of contract at the end of the season: Steve Simonson, Cribari, Alan Smith (20 year old goalkeeper,) Kyle Hutton and Kamil Wiktorski (20 year old.) Not easy to make drastic reductions, they got to hope people will buy Rangers players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 How much of the other costs can easily be reduced immediately though? I'm not convinced anyone outwith Rangers knows the answer to that question. The other costs like 500k for everyone to celebrate promotion to div 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The other costs like 500k for everyone to celebrate promotion to div 2 Any small club winning their first trophy is entitled to celebrate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The money only needs to last until they sell next years season tickets, they will reduce outlay on the team so player wages are about 25% of turnover, the variety of owners will fleece them for the rest but they won't vanish... No chance I imagine that the 1.5 million will eventually be re-payed from next season's ticket income. It just saves them them the embarrassment of going to the supporters early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Another fire (sale) at The Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) It's only 30% of turnover now.. The rest of the money has disappeared into the spivs pockets... They just milked the cow a little too much this year. If you measure the ratio like every other club, then the figure from their last accounts was 94%. Of course they claimed it was only 43%, but that's because they only counted their first team wages and not the wage costs of the whole business. More spivology! Edited February 20, 2014 by Footballfirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I imagine that the 1.5 million will eventually be re-payed from next season's ticket income. It just saves them them the embarrassment of going to the supporters early. Paid back by future shares I'm sure I read somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Any small club winning their first trophy is entitled to celebrate Not if they cheated. Where is spamhead.net when they are neaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Another fire (sale) at The Rangers. Far salary self combusted at the news he's not getting 30 million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Id hazard a guess that theres been a meeting between wallace and the spfl board where the board agreed to help by sneaking in the new "liquidation doesnt matter" clause. Why else was such a rule brought in under the radar. Its a major change to the rules that goes against all the financial fair play stuff thats supposedly the new mantra around european football. And scotland wants independence. We cant even run a fair football league. There hasn't been any change in the rules. The proposed rule on how to treat a licence transfer (generally due to liquidation) was not implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Wish people would stop banging on about this ?30m as though it had been promised to him. He just said that's how much it would take to mount a title challenge when they're back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Wish people would stop banging on about this ?30m as though it had been promised to him. He just said that's how much it would take to mount a title challenge when they're back up. And the rest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 What? Maybe if we were, we would have the chance to do just that. . Here's an idea! Why don't they appoint a guardian for every team - or, even one for every player? Just think of the fun they would have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 It's only 30% of turnover now.. The rest of the money has disappeared into the spivs pockets... They just milked the cow a little too much this year. # Even better than that its only about 50% of ticket collections (ST and walk up sales) Management team ?1.5m and it the spivs that are fleecing the rest, however the upkeep of Ibrox and MP is about ?1m per month (salaries, repairs, housekeeping) Its costing them ?1m per month over and above income to keep going, , but the additional problem is they have not been spending on Ibrox and its getting run down, the repair bills are mounting Get rid of the Spivs and they get rid of all their worries, they need credit facilities, but under good governance they could have so easily have been a sound viable business. But running a football club is not part of the Spivs primary plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Sorry Hagar getting rid of the Spiv would of course help them and stopped them being fleeced but they are still not financially viable, the total salary costs and operating costs still exceed revenues as their cost base is simply far too high and its been that way for at least 2 decades. Rangers can only ever cover costs or make a profit in the champions league group stages every year they don't make the big pay day from the Champions League they make thumping losses. Fundamentally their club is unsustainable when it's been run on the Souness / Murray / Smith / McCoist model. Edited February 21, 2014 by Charlie-Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Sorry Hagar getting rid of the Spiv would of course help them and stopped them being fleeced but they are still not financially viable, the total salary costs and operating costs still exceed revenues as their cost base is simply far too high and its been that way for at least 2 decades. Rangers can only ever cover costs or make a profit in the champions league group stages every year they don't make the big pay day from the Champions League they make thumping losses. Fundamentally their club is unsustainable when it's been run on the Souness / Murray / Smith / McCoist model. That's the crux of the matter, when SDM first came in the budgeted their costs on winning nothing, and they had the additional income from the pools, but its got so out of control the orcs wont allow mediocrity on the pitch, then came the "for every ?5 timothy spends we will spend ?10". now they need to cut their cloth, getting rid of the Spivs is the first big step, the second step in to educate Ra Peepul that they are not a big club any more, unless they get there organically, because wasting ?30m to win the 3rd division is insane, what will they need to spend next year, just to be competitive with us? If they ran a model similar to the FoH, its different when the spending becomes their money and not some rich sugar daddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Im sure no one has forgotten, but the season we finished 2nd and rangers 3rd, exposed their reliance on champions league money.. It certainly made me sit up and notice how vulnerable their finance's were. If only Celtic could fail to make the group stages, this would see them reducing the number of dud foreigners they are bringing in to our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john brownlee Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 to forgot the cost of brown evelopes...... or has that stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Is it possible for sevco to raise anther share issue to raise another 20 million or are the Orcs starting to figure out the Spivs and enough is enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.T.K Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Is there a break down of what the 'Staff costs' are? In the accounts staff costs are ?17.943 Million, and that's the big thing that people are going on about. How is this split between playing and non playing staff. According to the accounts there 196 members of staff but only 50 were football players. Just a guess but were Mather, Green, Smith, Stockbridge, and other now gone director's on silly wages. Looking at the books Directors were paid ?1.5M with ?900k going to Green alone. I'm interested to see if there other high non mentioned earners like Imran Ahmed? I guess we will find out when next round of accounts come out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The arithmetic is simple, they lost ?14M total wages were ?18M and claimed first team squad wages ?8M so even if they could eliminate all other staff costs (which they can't) saving themselves at best ?10M they are still at least ?4M loss making elsewhere in the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar the Horrible Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Is there a break down of what the 'Staff costs' are? In the accounts staff costs are ?17.943 Million, and that's the big thing that people are going on about. How is this split between playing and non playing staff. According to the accounts there 196 members of staff but only 50 were football players. Just a guess but were Mather, Green, Smith, Stockbridge, and other now gone director's on silly wages. Looking at the books Directors were paid ?1.5M with ?900k going to Green alone. I'm interested to see if there other high non mentioned earners like Imran Ahmed? I guess we will find out when next round of accounts come out? I think the Spivs were also creaming bonuses of 100% of salary, for winning the 3rd division. But it should also be taken into account is that startup costs would have been astronomical as we as the Green consortium received 100% of their investment from the IPO, so Green and his spivs paid ?5.5m got ?11m back and still hold the controlling stake in the club, nice work if you can get it, But that's where the fans are mental, they raised over ?20m in the shares issue, but could have bought the whole club 4 times over that if they put in a bid themselves (mind you D&P were involved) For the sake of the game as a whole ok its fun watching them melt, but they to get their brown stuff together and get the spivs out of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beats Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 It is Albion Rovers Please tell me that's real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Id hazard a guess that theres been a meeting between wallace and the spfl board where the board agreed to help by sneaking in the new "liquidation doesnt matter" clause. Why else was such a rule brought in under the radar. Its a major change to the rules that goes against all the financial fair play stuff thats supposedly the new mantra around european football. And scotland wants independence. We cant even run a fair football league. To be fair, it's two organisations run by an Englishman and an Australian, conspiring on behalf of 'Irish' and 'British' teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Have I missed something or aren't they supposed to be playing Albion rovers in the cup ? Despite the mega wages The Hun are paying their staff they just cant attract the quality. Hmfc the team for me ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 How embarrassing ... someone should get the sack for that (oh that would save a bawbee or two ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munch Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I think the Spivs were also creaming bonuses of 100% of salary, for winning the 3rd division. But it should also be taken into account is that startup costs would have been astronomical as we as the Green consortium received 100% of their investment from the IPO, so Green and his spivs paid ?5.5m got ?11m back and still hold the controlling stake in the club, nice work if you can get it, But that's where the fans are mental, they raised over ?20m in the shares issue, but could have bought the whole club 4 times over that if they put in a bid themselves (mind you D&P were involved) For the sake of the game as a whole ok its fun watching them melt, but they to get their brown stuff together and get the spivs out of the game once the spivs are in the door they won't depart until all the money is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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