Naive and Blindly Loyal

[rudi]

would you not think that VR just maybe wants a better return on the amount he has invested, yes there is a long list of things he has got massively wrong as well as getting some things right (sometimes later than expected).

The funny thing is we all debate our views on here without having the full or even close to full facts from all sides

And how does he do that,hm,win the league,get into the champions league,I thought after last night you would have now realised that it will take millions to compete with the OF,therefore increasing our debt "again" for a chance at winning the league.

[Victorian]

and another thing...

 

there is a theme going on throughout multiple thread which claims that kickback is wholly unrepresentative of the larger hearts support. yes indeed it is, but not in the way the claim makers think. the only thing which makes it not representative is the fact that it comprises of a very small percentage of the hearts support.

 

when these claims are made, the claim is that the opinions of people on here greatly differ to those you find away from kickback. to credibly make such a claim, you would have to have carried out a fairly extensive poll of the support to gain an understanding of the opinions of 'the average hearts fan'. simply quoting from a small group of mates in no way whatsoever demonstrates a representative view of a non-kickback group.

 

in other words... you're making it up out of thin air.

[Craigieboy]

You'll get pelters on here for only posting once, but I agree with you 100%. I don't think this Forum at all typical of the general view of Hearts fans, althugh I couldn't prove that.

 

I am nearer 60 than 50, and most of my contemporaries - the guys who attended regularly through the really bad times- were already totally disillusioned with Romanov . Some like me will keep going to Tynie, but scores that I know of don't any more.

 

Really? That many?

 

So we have a few people (literally, a few) who will see absolutely no wrong with VR & whatever decisions he makes, we have SCORES of guys who are turning their back on the club.

[He Who Cannot Be Named]

Kickback is becoming a bit of a roast-a-thon with constant threads like this.

[johnjl]

I don't even know where to start. To say Romanov has achieved nothing at the club is just nonsense. Since his arrival we have won a cup and our average league placing has been better than any club out with the old firm.

 

He has made huge mistakes as well. Everybody with one or two exceptions is either totally for or totally against Romanov. It's as if what ever side folk pick they completely ignore and refuse to accept the good or the bad things that Romanov has done.

 

That's why a vlad debate is a complete and utter waste of time.

[wright1989]

I don't have a season ticket to renew. Living 3500 miles away it's a bit tough to get back for the games!

 

If that makes me less of a fan, despite the fact I had a season ticket for ten years, then so be it.

 

But if I did still have one, yes, I'd seriously consider giving it up. Giving Vlad my money hardly expresses my discontent does it?

 

No. But it makes your opinion of JJ's sacking irrelevent.

[jambopompey]

And how does he do that,hm,win the league,get into the champions league,I thought after last night you would have now realised that it will take millions to compete with the OF,therefore increasing our debt "again" for a chance at winning the league.

as was pointed out last night, with our budget we should beat everyone below us no problem meaning we should have at least 90 points a season by using the we have a budget almost double that of the team below us but less than the old firm

[prisoner]

I think everyone's agreed the timing is a bit odd? Is that enough to prove to you that there's some sinister, underhand reason is it? Really?

 

Oh, and two "great" results? Behave. "Good" results, yes.

 

You're right... now why on earth would i think that VR's actions would have an underhand reasoning behind them...? Hmmm

 

Again, you're right... drawing against the current champions in their backyard and then drawing away in Europe, scoring a vital away goal in the process, weren't great results... they were ok though i suppose.

[Paolo]

It was a surprise but it wasn't a surprise.

 

It came out of the blue, there wasn't any real displeasure from fans at games really about the current run we are on, I actually believe that is down to WHO the manager was rather than the job he was doing.

 

When you look at it from the board's point of view, they are wanting results, the results were not good enough for a team wanting to challenge for a league title and cups. I wouldn't be surprised if we had the worst form in Scotland over the past 15 game

 

 

I personally wouldn't have sacked Jefferies when Romanov did. It was very sudden and we had started the season reasonably well. I'm not pleased with the timing of the decision but it is one that may turn out to be better for the long run, we'll just need to wait and see.

 

 

I will definitely be supporting the new manager, I hope we improve our results and we get more verysmug moments this season.

 

A very good post. I can understand the decision but may not have made it myself. I do think, though, perhaps the timing is worse than the decision itself.

[IMA MAROON]

JJ should still be manager because he is a Hearts fan. Then Locke should have taken over from JJ because he is a Hearts fan.

[NewYorkJambo]

and another thing...

 

there is a theme going on throughout multiple thread which claims that kickback is wholly unrepresentative of the larger hearts support. yes indeed it is, but not in the way the claim makers think. the only thing which makes it not representative is the fact that it comprises of a very small percentage of the hearts support.

 

when these claims are made, the claim is that the opinions of people on here greatly differ to those you find away from kickback. to credibly make such a claim, you would have to have carried out a fairly extensive poll of the support to gain an understanding of the opinions of 'the average hearts fan'. simply quoting from a small group of mates in no way whatsoever demonstrates a representative view of a non-kickback group.

 

in other words... you're making it up out of thin air.

 

You're right that statements like that hold no scientifc value and would not stand up in a court of law

 

All I know is that of the seven or eight people I have spoken to on this issue none of them back Romanov. While I disagree very strongly with the pro-Romanov brigade, not strongly enough to bother doing a full survey (which would be derided even if I did!)

 

It stands to reason that most older guys don't use forums as much as younger people. That's just the demographics of the internet. I can quite believe that some of the pro-Vlad posts are from older fans. Many of the posts though read like they come from kids.

 

Anyway, I give up! Wasted enough time today on here. I've enjoyed some constructive conversations and interesting debate with quite a few posters. But mainly it's just sarcastic responses, name calling etc. Funnily enough, mainly from the pro-Vlad camp.

[prisoner]

I don't even know where to start. To say Romanov has achieved nothing at the club is just nonsense. Since his arrival we have won a cup and our average league placing has been better than any club out with the old firm.

 

When you put it like that, winning a cup and having a better average league placing makes our debt level totally worth it.

 

Go VR.

[Teddy]

Blimey, what a terrible run it is you're referring to... a run of results comprising a draw at away at Ibrox, a draw away in Europe and a defeat at home DU?

 

Don't tell me people on here actually think the previous management team getting the boot is anything to do with results. Oh dear.

 

If JJ and BB weren't sacked because of 1 win in 14 games... enlighten us all on why they actually were?

[Paolo]

JJ should still be manager because he is a Hearts fan. Then Locke should have taken over from JJ because he is a Hearts fan.

 

There have been many good arguments to keep JJ but this is not one of them. In fact it is one of the worst.

[jambopompey]

I don't even know where to start. To say Romanov has achieved nothing at the club is just nonsense. Since his arrival we have won a cup and our average league placing has been better than any club out with the old firm.

 

He has made huge mistakes as well. Everybody with one or two exceptions is either totally for or totally against Romanov. It's as if what ever side folk pick they completely ignore and refuse to accept the good or the bad things that Romanov has done.

 

That's why a vlad debate is a complete and utter waste of time.

i would say most are down the middle, some things Vlad does folk will agree, other things folk disagree.

I read some news reports stating Hearts fans where all up in arms about the sackings, thats news to me, most hearts folk i know are neither up nor down with the news, most have taken the poor run of results has meant JJ had to go, maybe not this early, some felt he should have had more time to work it uot, but maybe Vlad wants someone who will attack teams

[Victorian]

There have been many good arguments to keep JJ but this is not one of them. In fact it is one of the worst.

 

i hear ronnie corbett has expressed an interest.

[prisoner]

If JJ and BB weren't sacked because of 1 win in 14 games... enlighten us all on why they actually were?

 

I would have thought it was simple.

 

Last season JJ questioned/opposed VR over player selection, close season JJ questioned/opposed VR over player contracts and then JJ questioned/opposed VR over the CT situation.

 

VR doesn't like people to have an opinion that differs from his and he always responds in the same manner... by acting like a childish brat.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Clearly I was talking about the way the club has conducted itself in general since Vlad has taken over. But you knew that, you just chose to ignore it.

 

Maybe it's just me though (awaits sarcastic response) who thinks Rix, Malofeev, Korobochka, Pyjama man, anti media and "mafia" rants, the dross we sign from Lithuania, picking the team, increasing the debt, sacking George Burley ETC ETC ETC is embarassing.

 

 

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second here.

 

Here's a wee poser for you: if Rix, Malofeev or Korobochka had gone 11 games without a win and had only won 1 in 14, would you...

 

1) say their sacking was justified;

 

2) say it was a disgrace and an embarrassment that they were hired in the first place;

 

3) say that their sacking was a disgrace;

 

4) say something else (please state)?

 

Be honest now, and be sure to explain your answer.

 

 

I think everyone's agreed the timing is a bit odd? Is that enough to prove to you that there's some sinister, underhand reason is it? Really?

 

Oh, and two "great" results? Behave. "Good" results, yes.

 

Yep. Let's not dress up a draw at Ibrox and a draw against some utter pish in Europe as wonderful results. Good performances, good results, but exaggerating them to be any more than that is weakening the arguments.

 

 

I don't have a season ticket to renew. Living 3500 miles away it's a bit tough to get back for the games!

 

If that makes me less of a fan, despite the fact I had a season ticket for ten years, then so be it.

 

But if I did still have one, yes, I'd seriously consider giving it up. Giving Vlad my money hardly expresses my discontent does it?

 

 

In which case, you can't really judge in the same way as someone who has been to all the games and made up their own minds on what they've seen from JJ.

 

I'm playing devil's advocate again here because I didn't want JJ sacked, no way, but I've seen the one dimensional tactics, slow subs and changes to turn a game and seen our lack of spark since we effectively secured third last season. Therefore, I can understand where people who are not too down about this are coming from, although I disagree with them. Outside of "he's sacked a Hearts legend", you can't possibly have the same body of evidence to base your opinion on, can you?

[johnjl]

When you put it like that, winning a cup and having a better average league placing makes our debt level totally worth it.

 

Go VR.

 

Good one. Our debt level after the debt forgiveness and debt for equity schemes will be roughly the same as when vlad took over. 5 years down the line, through the collapse of setanta and a major recession that sounds fine to me.

 

After your shitty attempt at sarcasm please reply to this post.

[Pete Seeger]

JJ should still be manager because he is a Hearts fan. Then Locke should have taken over from JJ because he is a Hearts fan.

 

IMA in sounding like a sellick fan shocker

[Paolo]

i hear ronnie corbett has expressed an interest.

With David McLetchie and Steven Hendry on the coaching staff.

[rudi]

as was pointed out last night, with our budget we should beat everyone below us no problem meaning we should have at least 90 points a season by using the we have a budget almost double that of the team below us but less than the old firm

And the OF have 5 times our budget but are pushed to get 90 points at the end of the season(last season being the exception rather than the rule),get a grip man,we cannot compete with the OF when it comes to buying player simple as that,we cannot compete with the OF when it comes to keeping player either,they,whether you like it or not are in a different league to us when it comes to spending,as we are in a different league to say Dunfermline.

[johnjl]

I would have thought it was simple.

 

Last season JJ questioned/opposed VR over player selection, close season JJ questioned/opposed VR over player contracts and then JJ questioned/opposed VR over the CT situation.

 

VR doesn't like people to have an opinion that differs from his and he always responds in the same manner... by acting like a childish brat.

 

The guy asked you to enlighten us what you did was guess, which is fine but you don't know so you can't say that the 1 in 14 wasn't the reason he was sacked.

[prisoner]

Good one. Our debt level after the debt forgiveness and debt for equity schemes will be roughly the same as when vlad took over. 5 years down the line, through the collapse of setanta and a major recession that sounds fine to me.

 

After your shitty attempt at sarcasm please reply to this post.

 

Certainly.

 

But first i'll need some figures to give a fully detailed reply.

 

Can you confirm: -

- The debt level at the time of VR's takeover

- The debt level at the time of each debt forgiveness scheme and each Debt for equity scheme

- What the debt is now

- What the money went on to bring it to the position that required debt forgiveness/debt for equity

 

Cheers

[kingantti1874]

There's always people on here saying they're not going anymore, or they know scores of people who are not going... Bla bla yet hearts average attendances under Romanov are higher than they were under Chris robinson by a large margin, higher than when levein was in charge and higher than they were during Jims first spell...

 

I can only conclude most people who say this are talking shite, those people have drifted for other. Reasons or they have been replaced with new fans.

 

Facts are facts people - hearts attendances under Romanov higher than they have been for probably 15-20 years

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

You're right... now why on earth would i think that VR's actions would have an underhand reasoning behind them...? Hmmm

 

Because you read the Sun and allow them to form your opinions for you?

[prisoner]

The guy asked you to enlighten us what you did was guess, which is fine but you don't know so you can't say that the 1 in 14 wasn't the reason he was sacked.

 

Oh FFS.

 

Of course its an opinion. Does every post really need an 'IMO' after it on here.

[dobmisterdobster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

[prisoner]

Because you read the Sun and allow them to form your opinions for you?

 

Yeah, that's it.

 

Well done.

[johnjl]

Certainly.

 

But first i'll need some figures to give a fully detailed reply.

 

Can you confirm: -

- The debt level at the time of VR's takeover

- The debt level at the time of each debt forgiveness scheme and each Debt for equity scheme

- What the debt is now

- What the money went on to bring it to the position that required debt forgiveness/debt for equity

 

Cheers

 

Who do you think I am your fecking secretary? Look it up yourself. Christ!

[Happy Hearts]

A good post, but the majority of people on here lack the sense to see that we continue to be shafted. Any other group of supporters would have done something about it, not us.

[johnjl]

Yeah, that's it.

 

Well done.

 

At least you have the good grace to admit it.

[Chad Sexington]

A good post, but the majority of people on here lack the sense to see that we continue to be shafted. Any other group of supporters would have done something about it, not us.

 

What have you done, Happy?

[Buffalo Bill]

What was the first post about...in a nutshell?

[prisoner]

At least you have the good grace to admit it.

 

:goodone:

 

 

:witty smilie:

 

:hilarious smilie:

[I.J]

A good post, but the majority of people on here lack the sense to see that we continue to be shafted. Any other group of supporters would have done something about it, not us.

 

There seems to be a few disillusioned chaps on here with your mindset.

 

Perhaps you could PM each other, get together and plan something, which could then be co-ordinated with the Federation.

 

But you won't, will you?

 

Just like them, you'll sit and bitch about apathy without lifting a finger yourself., whilst blaming everyone else.

 

Or, as is more likely, you know you're in a mammoth minority, and know that any protest action would be attended by about 10 folk, all with varying levels of mental ability/illness.

 

Yep, I think I've just nailed that.

[Victorian]

What was the first post about...in a nutshell?

 

basically he can't fathom why vlad hasn't yet been sent home in a coffin.

[Vlad-Stupid]

There seems to be a few disillusioned chaps on here with your mindset.

 

Perhaps you could PM each other, get together and plan something, which could then be co-ordinated with the Federation.

 

But you won't, will you?

 

Just like them, you'll sit and bitch about apathy without lifting a finger yourself., whilst blaming everyone else.

 

Or, as is more likely, you know you're in a mammoth minority, and know that any protest action would be attended by about 10 folk, all with varying levels of mental ability/illness.

 

Yep, I think I've just nailed that.

[kingantti1874]

A good post, but the majority of people on here lack the sense to see that we continue to be shafted. Any other group of supporters would have done something about it, not us.

 

Shafted in what way ? Lack of funds - no, general performance of the team? Nope that's not it...

 

I generally PMSL at vlads media / mafia rants, they are funny as **** generally and the content whilst delibevered in a contentious manner are generally not far from the truth / is there any difference between vlad referring to the SFA as the mafia whilst we commonly refer to them as the gfa? Can anyone honestly say they don't think they look out for the interests of the old firm? Really...

 

If rather vlad than those slimy west coast *******s any day of the week...

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

So, has Mr Romanov made it crystal clear on Twitter yet that it was BB who was the Stukachi ??

[chuckberryno1]

Are we any further forward in footballing terms over the past 6 seasons,yes or no?

 

Has our stadium improve drastically in the past 6 seasons,yes or no?

 

Has our debt decreased in the past 6 seasons,yes or no?

 

Are we a far better appreciated club now than we were 6 season back,yes or no?

 

Has vlad brought any shame to Hearts in the last 6 season,yes or no?

 

 

Our debt has increased

 

10 managers in 6 years

 

Managers that are convicted peadophiles.

 

Managers that cannot speak English

 

Interfering with team matters

 

Completly influencing us with sub standard Lithunian players.

 

Lunatic ravings.

 

Alienating Hearts supporters and club legends

 

Brining the club into disrepute.

 

Defending a player on the sex register.

 

Players getting paid late

 

Not paying transfer fees on time

 

Going forward, any player or manager who wants to join Hearts must have a major malfunction. Anyone with a bit common sense and self respect would not touch us with a bargepole.

 

We have become a joke club

[I.J]

Managers that are convicted peadophiles.

 

Managers that cannot speak English

 

It's "paedophiles".

[chuckberryno1]

I don't even know where to start. To say Romanov has achieved nothing at the club is just nonsense. Since his arrival we have won a cup and our average league placing has been better than any club out with the old firm.

 

He has made huge mistakes as well. Everybody with one or two exceptions is either totally for or totally against Romanov. It's as if what ever side folk pick they completely ignore and refuse to accept the good or the bad things that Romanov has done.

 

That's why a vlad debate is a complete and utter waste of time.

 

 

Other teams have also won a cup, Hibs, Utd spring to mind

 

We should be competing for 3rd, our revenue outstrips most other clubs ( almost double the ave gate of everyone, apart from Hubz).

 

 

We have done nothing under Romanov that Hearts should not be doing, aaprt from going through 10 managers in 6 years, and employing/ backing sex offenders amongst others in my list above.

[chuckberryno1]

It's "paedophiles".

 

well done, your spelling appears to be better than mine.

[I.J]

well done, your spelling appears to be better than mine.

 

It is.

 

Now, onto business. You've stated that we have employed managers who are convicted "peadophiles".

 

Who were/are these chaps?

[Francis Albert]

Never thought I would actually post much on this site if anything at all, however the naivety and blind loyalty displayed by some who have commented on the events of the past day is quite incredible.

 

Even after all that has happened since the current owner took over at Tynecastle, and there has been much that has been so incredibly damaging and held the club back from realising the very real potential that existed when Romanov took over, it is quite amazing to see at first hand how deluded some continue to be. There are some who are clearly badge wearing and fully paid up members of the Romanov party and swallow every line put out by the current board. It is true that we are all entitled to our own opinion, that is what makes us different after all. Without going over the ins and outs of Romanovs ownership of the club as I'm sure they will have been debated many times over, there can be no doubt that the club has not made the progression it could have nor met the expectations many had when he bought the club and the main reason for this is the man himself.

 

The club missed a real opportunity to genuinely challenge Rangers and Celtic over the long term from the moment Burley, Anderton et al were removed and that very early promise, real potential and impetus was lost and will not be there again under Romanov. The old line about winning the Scottish Cup that year actually makes more comment on what could have been rather than it being some source of justification for the questionable business practices and values the club seems to operate under. For me, the club will never achieve more than this under Romanov and I sure he is well aware of this. The idea that was being put forward by many yesterday that the latest changes were ambitious and will move Hearts foward in some way and that it is still Romanonvs intention to be credible challengers season in season out is just naive in the extreme.

 

How far has the club progressed since Romanov took over despite the vast amount of money the club appears to have spent during that time? Not all that far it could be argued if at all and some still believe he is the messiah? What's'changed since Romanov moved into Tynecastle? Not much it could be argued again. The club still has a significant level of debt despite some major income generated by transfer fees received over the last 2/3 years, is still playing in the same stadium and facing the very real prospect of having to move away from its home, has achieved no more than say the previous board in terms of success on the park, and no I'm not a Robinson/Deans man, and has little chance of changing the duopoly that is Scottish football.

 

If any manager Romanov employed performed like he has, they wouldn't last a week. And no I'm not a Hibs fan, nutter, arse etc as you seem to be if not following the party line. There are also some out there who should have a word with themselves the way they quickly rounded on Jeffries just to support Romanov yesterday. As the title says, if you believe that stats like 1 in 14 wins, and the amount of times this was trotted out yesterday was quite remarkable, was the only reason Jeffries was sacked then that's intended for you. At least Jeffries had the decency and dignity to refuse the "directors" offer and see it for what is was.

 

 

That's what JJ said was the reason for his departure. Are you calling him a liar?

[chuckberryno1]

It is.

 

Now, onto business. You've stated that we have employed managers who are convicted "peadophiles".

 

Who were/are these chaps?

 

 

 

Rix

[kingantti1874]

Our debt has increased ( not much in relative terms and we have 0 pressure to pay it back)

 

10 managers in 6 years ( how many have hibs had.?)

 

Managers that are convicted peadophiles. - I didn't like rix but he had served his dues

 

Managers that cannot speak English (yet on average we have been consistently the best of the res)

 

Interfering with team matters - see above

 

Completly influencing us with sub standard Lithunian players. - again see above, can't have been that bad

 

Lunatic ravings. - entertainment

 

Alienating Hearts supporters and club legends - crowds are in average higher

 

Brining the club into disrepute. - in who's opinion - the Gfa.?

 

Defending a player on the sex register. - agreed not on

 

Players getting paid late - so what? This happens at every institution in the world and it's not your cash

 

Not paying transfer fees on time - first time I've heard that, examples please

 

Going forward, any player or manager who wants to join Hearts must have a major malfunction. Anyone with a bit common sense and self respect would not touch us with a bargepole.

 

We have become a joke club

[I.J]

Rix

 

And the other(s)?

 

You've clearly stated that there has been more than one.

 

"Managers that are convicted peadophiles".

 

After that, have a stab at the "Managers that cannot speak English" were, although given your apparently own tenuous grip on the Queen's, I'm not sure how much credence that complaint can hold.

 

Thanks.

[Francis Albert]

Our debt has increased

 

10 managers in 6 years

 

Managers that are convicted peadophiles.

 

Managers that cannot speak English

 

Interfering with team matters

 

Completly influencing us with sub standard Lithunian players.

 

Lunatic ravings.

 

Alienating Hearts supporters and club legends

 

Brining the club into disrepute.

 

Defending a player on the sex register.

 

Players getting paid late

 

Not paying transfer fees on time

 

Going forward, any player or manager who wants to join Hearts must have a major malfunction. Anyone with a bit common sense and self respect would not touch us with a bargepole.

 

We have become a joke club

 

Exactly what was said before JJ was appointed. What was his major malfunction?

 

This stuff has been spouted for years but managers and players seem to be keen to join Hearts when they are lucky enough to get the opportunity.