Martin_T Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Remind us how many threads you have made about Lithuanian players Martin? So predictable Charlie Tactic A - Turn thread into a Robbie debate - Fails so resort to... Tactic B - Throwing around accusations of xenephobia like confetti Very, very pathetic..... ...and I would say that as a percentage of the total posts I have made, relatively few have been about criticising Lithuanian players. In fact I am one of the few on here who has regularly defended Mikoluinas and believe that with the right coaching, Zaliukas could be a good centre half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 See Martin that is the crux of the argument - in your opinion he isn't as bad - in my opinion he is and what's worse is his continued presence in our team over a number of season has retarded the way we play because his use of the ball is simply not good enough. Fullback's get so much ball in space in modern football that they have to be able to use it effectively to help create & start attacks - not concedeing possession is fundamental and making intelligent passes is what is required - Neilson frequently fails on both these counts. Begs the question of why we go down the right so much more than the left then does it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 See Martin that is the crux of the argument - in your opinion he isn't as bad - in my opinion he is and what's worse is his continued presence in our team over a number of season has retarded the way we play because his use of the ball is simply not good enough. Fullback's get so much ball in space in modern football that they have to be able to use it effectively to help create & start attacks - not concedeing possession is fundamental and making intelligent passes is what is required - Neilson frequently fails on both these counts. Uh oh. Haven't we been here before somewhere, Charlie? I seem to recall the exact same arguments being made about Elvis in the months before he left. "He can't pass! He's not a ball playing defender!" But since he left, has our defence got either: a) better, or worse? Neilson has 'retarded our team play', has he? Who do we think we are: Real Madrid? Actually, what's retarded our team play more than anything else is the circus that went on off the field between Autumn 2005 and the end of last year, and joke training methods straight out of the middle ages. Have we given any of our players a real opportunity to improve under good coaches? Of course we haven't. But when in doubt, blame the players - especially the few who always give 100%. Robbie Nielson is a deeply limited player, of that there is little doubt. But simply through qualities of hard work and giving his all, he's managed to carve a career out for himself here - and that he's still being selected is because we have no-one better in his position. And is that his fault? Apart from Alan Maybury, we haven't had a decent right back at any stage over the past 15 years: and that's a chronic failure of the club, not RN. Below, a link to a piece in the Scotsman last week about the advanced fitness methods Rangers are now utilising. Do you honestly think Hearts are employing similar routines? Nope: we have mad Eddie and his wheelbarrow, what more could we possibly want? As the saying goes, you can only **** with the dick you have - and given we're on course for our worst league finish in at least 14 years, it might be an idea for us to focus on the basics by employing a proper manager and going back to behaving like a normal football club before demanding miracles from players like Nielson. http://sport.scotsman.com/rangersfc/Rangers-rely-on-conditioning-expert.3902786.jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Uh oh. Haven't we been here before somewhere, Charlie? I seem to recall the exact same arguments being made about Elvis in the months before he left. "He can't pass! He's not a ball playing defender!" But since he left, has our defence got either: a) better, or worse? Neilson has 'retarded our team play', has he? Who do we think we are: Real Madrid? Actually, what's retarded our team play more than anything else is the circus that went on off the field between Autumn 2005 and the end of last year, and joke training methods straight out of the middle ages. Have we given any of our players a real opportunity to improve under good coaches? Of course we haven't. But when in doubt, blame the players - especially the few who always give 100%. Robbie Nielson is a deeply limited player, of that there is little doubt. But simply through qualities of hard work and giving his all, he's managed to carve a career out for himself here - and that he's still being selected is because we have no-one better in his position. And is that his fault? Apart from Alan Maybury, we haven't had a decent right back at any stage over the past 15 years: and that's a chronic failure of the club, not RN. Below, a link to a piece in the Scotsman last week about the advanced fitness methods Rangers are now utilising. Do you honestly think Hearts are employing similar routines? Nope: we have mad Eddie and his wheelbarrow, what more could we possibly want? As the saying goes, you can only **** with the dick you have - and given we're on course for our worst league finish in at least 14 years, it might be an idea for us to focus on the basics by employing a proper manager and going back to behaving like a normal football club before demanding miracles from players like Nielson. http://sport.scotsman.com/rangersfc/Rangers-rely-on-conditioning-expert.3902786.jp Oof! Take that!! Cracking post there mate, totally hit the spot on a number of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 So predictable Charlie Tactic A - Turn thread into a Robbie debate - Fails so resort to... Tactic B - Throwing around accusations of xenephobia like confetti Very, very pathetic..... ...and I would say that as a percentage of the total posts I have made, relatively few have been about criticising Lithuanian players. In fact I am one of the few on here who has regularly defended Mikoluinas and believe that with the right coaching, Zaliukas could be a good centre half. Nobody accused you of xenophobia Martin - if you think i did then please show me where? You have however started a number of threads about 'xyz' lithuanian player or the kaunas players in general - that is just an observation & a fact not an accusation - you made the point my comments on Neilson were repetitive & boring - well the same could be said for your threads like these...... Anyway who has done more either contributed or damaged Hearts results and bank balance - this season? 8 Kaunas players (Velicka Ksanavicius Kurskis Zaliukas Ivaskevicius Kancelskis Beniusis & Pilibaitis) who's combined basic weekly wages were less than ?10K per week in total..... OR Neil McCann, Michel Pospisil, Juho Makela, Mauricio Pinilla, Mirsad Beslija, Anthony Basso, Ibrahim Tall, Jose Goncalves & Christian Nade - what is their combined weekly wage bill? even a conservative estimate of ?5K each player is ?45K per week!!! (But it's probably even more than that) How many games have they played? how many goals have they scored? what have they contributed? They too take up reserve spaces that prevent young players progressing but where are the threads slating these guys who are costing the club between ?35K-?50K per week over and above what the Kaunas players earn. Velicka has provided better value for money & contributed more this season himself than the entire 2nd group I listed combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Our defensive record last season before / after Pressley left was broadly equivalent - there certainly wasn't any major decline. Since Craig Gordon left there has been a notable increase in the number of goals conceded in total this season, which suggests that defensively Gordon was a far greater loss than Elvis who is / was finished in my opinion and has hardly played since. Anybody who doesn't think Robbie Neilson (& Jose Goncalves) don't have a major negative impact on the way we play going forward either doesn't understand or doesn't want to see it - it's not about being Real Madrid - it's about basic competency like keeping possession and making basic passes that help those in-front of him not hospital passes or over-hit passes......when Johnny Brown plays in Hearts first team then you will understand just how limited Neilson really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Nobody accused you of xenophobia Martin - if you think i did then please show me where?You have however started a number of threads about 'xyz' lithuanian player or the kaunas players in general - that is just an observation & a fact not an accusation - you made the point my comments on Neilson were repetitive & boring - well the same could be said for your threads like these...... Anyway who has done more either contributed or damaged Hearts results and bank balance - this season? 8 Kaunas players (Velicka Ksanavicius Kurskis Zaliukas Ivaskevicius Kancelskis Beniusis & Pilibaitis) who's combined basic weekly wages were less than ?10K per week in total..... OR Neil McCann, Michel Pospisil, Juho Makela, Mauricio Pinilla, Mirsad Beslija, Anthony Basso, Ibrahim Tall, Jose Goncalves & Christian Nade - what is their combined weekly wage bill? even a conservative estimate of ?5K each player is ?45K per week!!! (But it's probably even more than that) How many games have they played? how many goals have they scored? what have they contributed? They too take up reserve spaces that prevent young players progressing but where are the threads slating these guys who are costing the club between ?35K-?50K per week over and above what the Kaunas players earn. Velicka has provided better value for money & contributed more this season himself than the entire 2nd group I listed combined. Provide links to these alleged threads please... Charlie, pish players are pish players, regardless of what they cost. We could get better players from the Scottish lower leagues for similar cost as Levein is proving at United with the likes of Swanson and Gomis (and in the past Webster and Macfarlane) than the dross Romanov has provided us 'on loan from Kaunas'....and there has been as many threads on the likes of Makela, Beslija and McCann as there has been on the Kaunas Krap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Anyway who has done more either contributed or damaged Hearts results and bank balance - this season? 8 Kaunas players (Velicka Ksanavicius Kurskis Zaliukas Ivaskevicius Kancelskis Beniusis & Pilibaitis) who's combined basic weekly wages were less than ?10K per week in total..... OR Neil McCann, Michel Pospisil, Juho Makela, Mauricio Pinilla, Mirsad Beslija, Anthony Basso, Ibrahim Tall, Jose Goncalves & Christian Nade - what is their combined weekly wage bill? even a conservative estimate of ?5K each player is ?45K per week!!! (But it's probably even more than that) How many games have they played? how many goals have they scored? what have they contributed? They too take up reserve spaces that prevent young players progressing but where are the threads slating these guys who are costing the club between ?35K-?50K per week over and above what the Kaunas players earn. Velicka has provided better value for money & contributed more this season himself than the entire 2nd group I listed combined. I don't think you'll find many of the posters who have been discussing the deficiencies of Ksanavicius - what this thread was actually about - in disagreement with you about the insanity of having a gigantic squad with high-earning players sitting on their backsides every week. In fact, most of these posters have been going on about this for some considerable time now, unlike certain recent converts to austerity. Strange to see this sudden concern for our debt levels from certain quarters, but it's not before time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I don't think you'll find many of the posters who have been discussing the deficiencies of Ksanavicius - what this thread was actually about - in disagreement with you about the insanity of having a gigantic squad with high-earning players sitting on their backsides every week. In fact, most of these posters have been going on about this for some considerable time now, unlike certain recent converts to austerity. Strange to see this sudden concern for our debt levels from certain quarters, but it's not before time. I guess that only if the club can't afford the lunatic appearance/bonus/goal money agreed previously then it makes sense that the expensive players are being kept out by their cheaper inferior team mates ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I guess that only if the club can't afford the lunatic appearance/bonus/goal money agreed previously then it makes sense that the expensive players are being kept out by their cheaper inferior team mates ... You're right - I should have expressed that better. What I should have said is that there are therefore several stages to the insanity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Apart from Kingston, Nade & Pinilla (who I assume the club believes they can profit from on their eventual sale) virtually ALL of the high earning players I listed above including Gordon, Pressley, Webster, Fyssas, Brellier, Hartley, Skacel, Jankauskas, Bednar were given contracts or improved contracts during 2005-06 season when even Foulkes was still talking about stadium reconstruction plans a) 25K capacity & plan 40K capacity and moving to Murrayfield for the beginning of season 2006-07 (ie last season). However there was no - and still isn't any quick stadium resolution nor did we qualify for the Champions League group stages - the Kaunas (A Lyga) players all arrived subsequent to our defeat by Athens and as far as I can see the financial brakes have been put on in every transfer window since summer 2006 to constrain & reduce the wage bill as well as net gains from player trading (mostly selling or releasing higher earners) and Kaunas players & our own youth players have generally been selected ahead of higher earners to minimise the total weekly wage bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Below, a link to a piece in the Scotsman last week about the advanced fitness methods Rangers are now utilising. Do you honestly think Hearts are employing similar routines? Nope: we have mad Eddie and his wheelbarrow, what more could we possibly want? http://sport.scotsman.com/rangersfc/Rangers-rely-on-conditioning-expert.3902786.jp This guy is Hearts sports scientist Shaun and has been working at Hearts since November 2006 http://www.heartsfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Squad/CoachingSquadDetail/0,,10289~960135,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Apart from Kingston, Nade & Pinilla (who I assume the club believes they can profit from on their eventual sale) virtually ALL of the high earning players I listed above including Gordon, Pressley, Webster, Fyssas, Brellier, Hartley, Skacel, Jankauskas, Bednar were given contracts or improved contracts during 2005-06 season when even Foulkes was still talking about stadium reconstruction plans a) 25K capacity & plan 40K capacity and moving to Murrayfield for the beginning of season 2006-07 (ie last season). However there was no - and still isn't any quick stadium resolution nor did we qualify for the Champions League group stages - the Kaunas (A Lyga) players all arrived subsequent to our defeat by Athens and as far as I can see the financial brakes have been put on in every transfer window since summer 2006 to constrain & reduce the wage bill as well as net gains from player trading (mostly selling or releasing higher earners) and Kaunas players & our own youth players have generally been selected ahead of higher earners to minimise the total weekly wage bill. So when Romanov had them all over for the Osasuna friendly in July 2006, it was just for the banter then? The plan has aways been to introduce these guys into the squad Charlie and you know it. That's why we have been trialling large groups of them since January 2005. Regardless of Romanov's Ridsdale-esque punt on Champions League income. It would be far more sensible to have 3 or 4 good players on 3 to 4,000 a week, selected by a competent manager, than 8 or 9 pish players on 1,000 a week, selected by a comittee of retards. In any event, regarding the higher earners who have not contributed, does this not again point to failure on Romanov's part in the area of player recruitment? Yet more mis-management by the man that you have used up virtually of all your credibility defending. Still waiting by the way for links to all those threads I created criticising Lithuanian players....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal_macca Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 This must be the calum elliot fan club cause he was worse than ksnaavicius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 So when Romanov had them all over for the Osasuna friendly in July 2006, it was just for the banter then? The plan has aways been to introduce these guys into the squad Charlie and you know it. That's why we have been trialling large groups of them since January 2005. Regardless of Romanov's Ridsdale-esque punt on Champions League income. It would be far more sensible to have 3 or 4 good players on 3 to 4,000 a week, selected by a competent manager, than 8 or 9 pish players on 1,000 a week, selected by a comittee of retards. In any event, regarding the higher earners who have not contributed, does this not again point to failure on Romanov's part in the area of player recruitment? Yet more mis-management by the man that you have used up virtually of all your credibility defending. Still waiting by the way for links to all those threads I created criticising Lithuanian players....... Whilst I agree with all that you say in the post I'd like to say that I laughed and burped when I read the bold bit, so the burp came out of my nose. Good work fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Isn't it awful how when player A is argued against player B, player A is deemed better because he tries? We have players that are so beyond footballers that truly awful players that try edge above them. Ksanavicius is not good enough Neilson is not good enough Frankly, they are merely the tip of the iceberg, we are rotten to the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do you know where hell is Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Isn't it awful how when player A is argued against player B, player A is deemed better because he tries? We have players that are so beyond footballers that truly awful players that try edge above them. Ksanavicius is not good enough Neilson is not good enough Frankly, they are merely the tip of the iceberg, we are rotten to the core. I have to agree with you there mate. To those who suggest that robbie is just an honest man doing a job and trying his best, i suggest you actually try and understand football. Since maybury left we have had countless jambos telling us that robbie is a decent player and the old chesnut "he tries". I have said it before but a dog puts maximum effort into chasing its tail, it doesnt mean it is worth something. The club is badly at fault for not getting in another right back so as to leave this joker no competition. He has cost us on so many occasions it is frightening, had it not been for jose this year putting in equally as bad performances we would have noticed it more. Like jose, neilson, has no positional sense and its often sucked in leaving us exsposed badly. Certain fans have no problem going ape at the first bad game a player has if he is a lith but when it is a scot we are somehow expected to back him. People will argue that it is not their fault if the club plays them and that would be true. What is thier fault however is how they conduct themselves on the pitch when played. It is not enough for robbie to run about like a headless chicken ,no, he should be expected to improve as a player and work on aspects of his game which have let him down since his first start. I dont think that robbie is the worst but he has more chances than most yet still serves up the same old dross. The team is playing dire just now and we are starting to see what players are made of. The sad fact is that it is showing we have a weak squad and we are unable to carry any passangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Certain fans have no problem going ape at the first bad game a player has if he is a lith... Since you were speaking of old chestnuts, this is certainly one that could do with being pur?ed, or whatever it is that happens to old chestnuts. In the case of the "footballer" under discussion in this thread, it's more a question of his presence in the team being justified constantly on the basis of one good game. (No, I do not think he had a good game against Celtic in the CIS.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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