Dougie told me to lie

[Malinga the Swinga]

According to Gordom Smith, it wasn't a major lie, just a lie. The cover up is gathering pace, and The BBC, apart from Jim Traynor, is helping along with the whitewash. If you lie once, you will lie again. DM & HD must go.

[IMA MAROON]

Craven is the baddie here. He knew it was a penalty but would have kept quiet if DM had not went over to talk to him. He was happy to see celtic get the penalty.

[rossthejambo]

Craven is the baddie here. He knew it was a penalty but would have kept quiet if DM had not went over to talk to him. He was happy to see celtic get the penalty.

 

Nonsense. He was happy to take Dougie's word for it as he was closer to the incident and had a clear view of it, something he didn't.

 

There's nothing controversial about the linesman's decision to take his position for a penalty, no matter how you word it he did nothing wrong.

[IMA MAROON]

Craven wanted celtic to get a penalty. He must be celtic minded. We should know.

[Spellczech]

It's not like they lied to cover up a deliberatly wrong decision though. I don't know why McDonald had to lie about anything in the first place, he got the decision right!

Yeah but if he felt the need to lie about a correct decision to make it more palatable to his supervisor, what would he do about a wrong decision?

 

We saw the approach Brines took in that respect by just denying the need to revisit his red card decision against Zaliukas...The original bad call was incompetence but the refusal to admit to it was corruption - pure and simple.

 

McDonald MUST resign. It is irrelevant why he lied or even how important his "white lie" was - the fact remains his credibility in EVERY debateable decision he now makes is questionable.

 

Dallas is also on a sticky wicket. If Craven is right about his bullying style and cover up allegations then he must go too. However, I suspect this would require another official or ex-official to speak up too...

[rossthejambo]

Craven wanted celtic to get a penalty. He must be celtic minded. We should know.

 

Right you are

[IMA MAROON]

Right you are

 

Craven is a mhank. That is absolutely guarenteed.

[johnjl]

Cannae be bothered reading through all this but the bottom line is dougie has now admitted to telling a fib.

 

No way would he have admitted this if the linesman hadn't kicked it off.

 

I doubt whether even the most blind believer of refs and the sfa would think this is the first porky told by a ref in cahoots with his linesman. So they can't be trusted , I believe it calls into doubt the integrity of all refs in Scotland and some sort of independent enquiry should be called.

 

I demand my pound of flesh.

[Deevers]

I'd put nothing past Dallas - i heard a story from a really good source recently about him. Lets just say that he is pushing his son (who currently referees junior matches) very hard and his trying his utmost to see that he is promoted onto the Grade 1 list next season- by hook or by crook!!! After what I've heard I'd put nothing past him.

[ASSASSIN]

weve all knew for years that the sfa are corrupt to the core

and all this coming out is superb and to think vlad has been slated for speaking the truth over the years....not so mad now is he

[RoussetsShorts]

anybody involved in this is corrupt to the core

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztXYNmFen6s

[rossthejambo]

anybody involved in this is corrupt to the core

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztXYNmFen6s

 

Aaargh why did you post this .

 

Blood's almost at boiling point after re-viewing that farce.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

weve all knew for years that the sfa are corrupt to the core

and all this coming out is superb and to think vlad has been slated for speaking the truth over the years....not so mad now is he

 

 

It'd be funny if we hadn't been fined through the fecking nose for it.

 

And let's not forget that the CORRECT decision was reached in this situation. Christ knows what's been happening with some of the INCORRECT decisions...

[DETTY29]

Hope this works,

 

Article posted on Scotsman website on early hours of Wed 20 October and Dallas backs up the story that Craven called MacDonald over.

 

http://sport.scotsman.com/celticfc/Hugh-Dallas-backs-referee-over.6589944.jp

 

 

Craven's article yesterday indicates MacDonald told Dallas the correct events on the Sunday evening of the game.

 

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/10/31/dougie-mcdonald-told-me-to-lie-about-celtic-penalty-u-turn-to-neil-lennon-says-quit-linesman-steven-craven-86908-22677852/

 

Interesting.

[Mr Loverman]

Hope this works,

 

Article posted on Scotsman website on early hours of Wed 20 October and Dallas backs up the story that Craven called MacDonald over.

 

http://sport.scotsman.com/celticfc/Hugh-Dallas-backs-referee-over.6589944.jp

 

 

Craven's article yesterday indicates MacDonald told Dallas the correct events on the Sunday evening of the game.

 

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/10/31/dougie-mcdonald-told-me-to-lie-about-celtic-penalty-u-turn-to-neil-lennon-says-quit-linesman-steven-craven-86908-22677852/

 

Interesting.

 

Additionally this was said in the Scotsman's article:

"Neil Lennon took the time to go to the referee's dressing-room about 40 minutes after the match was concluded," the former World Cup referee said. "They had a discussion and Neil accepted that the decision was correct. It was just unusual. He received a full explanation."

 

He received a full explanation which was a 'mistruth' - I have a hunch this is going to run and run.

[rossthejambo]

Hope this works,

 

Article posted on Scotsman website on early hours of Wed 20 October and Dallas backs up the story that Craven called MacDonald over.

 

http://sport.scotsma...over.6589944.jp

 

 

Craven's article yesterday indicates MacDonald told Dallas the correct events on the Sunday evening of the game.

 

 

http://www.dailyreco...86908-22677852/

 

Interesting.

 

He's also said today that he's never been part of a cover up and told the truth the whole time. Interesting.

[johnjl]

He's also said today that he's never been part of a cover up and told the truth the whole time. Interesting.

Further evidence of them closing ranks. Fantastic.

[EreWeG0..]

Some people want proof...Just a matter of time

[DETTY29]

He's also said today that he's never been part of a cover up and told the truth the whole time. Interesting.

I've just listened to MacHobo's interview for the first time and MacHobo confirms he told Dallas the truth on Sunday evening.

 

A guy on RR got it spot on tonight.

 

This is deception where deception is unacceptable.

 

After family, football is the most important in a large percentage of people not only in this country but throughout the world. Wee white lies from the people who are meant to be impartial in football is not acceptable. And the only way to ensure any confidence in the integrity of the game is removing people who have been proven not to be truthful.

 

I don't believe there is wholesale corruption in the game here. We are the same here as everywhere else and the advantages the bigger clubs get (take Man U, Spurs, Spurs players told to go away from the ref but Ferdinand is allowed to listen into the debate)

 

However, this is completely different and more serious. If MacDonald's events are true that Craven instigated the cover, as the senior official for going along with it he should be made to resign (and if Craven is correct that MacDonald instigated it, then sacked) and if Dallas knew the events on Sunday but was publicly providing false facts as the truth on Tuesday, dismissed without severance with immediate effect. And if the new Chief Executive isn't prepared to take these actions this week, pressure should be put on him to resign as well, and if it's Celtic that instigates it, we should be supporting them.

[Gambo]

deleted..........wrong thread.

 

 

[Johanes de Silentio]

What's all this about Santa being a lie?

[DETTY29]

What's all this about Santa being a lie?

I keep getting reported to the SSPCA for yanking the cats teeth out.

 

And for nothing. Apparently there isn't a tooth fairy either.

[Ben Dover]

 

I found this when stumbling onto reports of the Zal - Millar incident where Brines was the ref !

 

They appealed and were furious when Brines refused to overturn the decision,

an outcome which contributed to the Scottish Football Association announcing they would review their disciplinary procedures at the end of the season.

So was that JUST a wee white lie too

 

 

 

 

[Miller Jambo 60]

I found this when stumbling onto reports of the Zal - Millar incident where Brines was the ref !

 

They appealed and were furious when Brines refused to overturn the decision,

an outcome which contributed to the Scottish Football Association announcing they would review their disciplinary procedures at the end of the season.

So was that JUST a wee white lie too

 

 

 

 

 

Thing is bud the hobo mup has hit the fan, bring it on :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

We know we were cheated, my 1st game Hearts Gers stein falls in the box penalty 1967

 

[Ben Dover]

Don't know if this has been linked already

 

SFA report

 

 

Craven better do some quick talking or the blazers will bury him

[DETTY29]

Don't know if this has been linked already

 

SFA report

 

 

Craven better do some quick talking or the blazers will bury him

This is getting more comical.

 

So now by the Monday, MacDonald, Craven, the assistant ref, the match observer and the Chief Executive of the SFA knew the truth, but Dallas was still given permission to lie to the public via the press on Tuesday.

 

Every single last one of them should be made to resign.

 

And any journalist not picking up on this and supporting the SFA should hang their head in shame.

[Tommy Brown]

Hope this works,

 

Article posted on Scotsman website on early hours of Wed 20 October and Dallas backs up the story that Craven called MacDonald over.

 

http://sport.scotsman.com/celticfc/Hugh-Dallas-backs-referee-over.6589944.jp

 

 

Craven's article yesterday indicates MacDonald told Dallas the correct events on the Sunday evening of the game.

 

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/10/31/dougie-mcdonald-told-me-to-lie-about-celtic-penalty-u-turn-to-neil-lennon-says-quit-linesman-steven-craven-86908-22677852/

 

Interesting.

from your Scotsman link

Dallas said: "I think the main thing is that the final decision that was taken was correct. And the referee is well within his rights to change his mind as long as he has not restarted play.

 

"Dougie, after having given the decision, then received information from the assistant referee that the goalkeeper had played the ball.

 

"There is a really good replay of the incident from the offside-line camera, which clearly shows the ball changing direction - and that was something that Dougie did not enjoy at the time. So the decision was overturned and it's not the first time that has happened this season. It's already happened down at Kilmarnock, where the assistant referee and fourth official overturned a penalty decision."

 

Unless it has been edited since you posted, at no point does Dallas say Craven called the ref over. He only says after receiving information from the Assistant referee that McHobo changed his decision.

I see nothing in the quotes that damage Dallas' credibility.

[Charlie-Brown]

craven is now the official patsy and being made the fall guy for all of this, the sfa dallas and regan close ranks and basically saying craven is not telling the truth and discrediting him, the whitewash begins.

[rossthejambo]

from your Scotsman link

Dallas said: "I think the main thing is that the final decision that was taken was correct. And the referee is well within his rights to change his mind as long as he has not restarted play.

 

"Dougie, after having given the decision, then received information from the assistant referee that the goalkeeper had played the ball.

 

"There is a really good replay of the incident from the offside-line camera, which clearly shows the ball changing direction - and that was something that Dougie did not enjoy at the time. So the decision was overturned and it's not the first time that has happened this season. It's already happened down at Kilmarnock, where the assistant referee and fourth official overturned a penalty decision."

 

Unless it has been edited since you posted, at no point does Dallas say Craven called the ref over. He only says after receiving information from the Assistant referee that McHobo changed his decision.

I see nothing in the quotes that damage Dallas' credibility.

 

That's not what's being said now though. Dallas is saying that he told the truth which would be that Dougie, of his own free will, overturned the decision.

 

Dallas doesn't say this in that article.

 

It's good to see though that the other assistant is wading in "to corroborate" McDonald and Dallas's stories.

[redm]

Not surprised in the slighest to see the waters muddying by the minute. Craven is going to be hung out to dry for this one and it'll end up so confusingly convoluted that people will lose the will to live and stop trying to figure out what's going on.

 

Thing is, there shouldn't be any sort of confusion over anything like this. It should be open, transparent and straightforward. Muddying the waters will only emphasis the fact that it just isn't any of these things...

[Victorian]

it's of no real surprise to see that there is no will within the corridors of power to be completely open about these events. there's no will to learn from the whole debacle and effect meaningful change for the betterment of scottish football. it's the same old game of survival for the parasitical characters who feed off the game when they should in actual fact be peripheral players.

 

the game of football is about the football players. it's about the fans as well. it's not there for the benefit of dishonest referees and dishonest refereeing supervisors. those characters are there to serve the sport and they should be dispensed with in short order when they're found out to be the liars and cheats that they are.

 

the image os scottish football wasn't exactly brilliant before this latest farce. to willfully shy away from doing anything worthwhile and constructive about it will simply be the latest installment in a catalogue of failures by the powers that be.

 

scottish football is dying a death. the people who claim to be running it for the betterment of the game for everyone concerned are actually the ones who are bringing about it's downfall.

[Ben Dover]

We need Craven to come out fighting now or, perversely, Dallas and McHobo may somehow come out of this smelling of roses rather than **** like they deserve.

That will also mean that any chance of any Glasnost will be gone for the foreseable future !

[Drylaw Hearts]

craven is now the official patsy and being made the fall guy for all of this, the sfa dallas and regan close ranks and basically saying craven is not telling the truth and discrediting him, the whitewash begins.

 

Is Craven telling the truth though ?

 

He's lied at least once already and he was prepared to stand-by and watch Utd concede a pen which he has admitted he didn't think should have been awarded.

[redm]

We need Craven to come out fighting now or, perversely, Dallas and McHobo may somehow come out of this smelling of roses rather than **** like they deserve.

That will also mean that any chance of any Glasnost will be gone for the foreseable future !

 

Craven needs someone else to decide that enough is enough and now is the right time to come clean on other issues. If it's true that many of the less senior officials are unhappy then they need to come out in support now and air their grievances. I can't see it happening in the end but I bet there are a good few sitting thinking about it right now....

 

The SFA really disgust me more than I can possibly say. God knows why I'm surprised at their abysmal handling of this one, it's not like they ever manage to get anything right...

[Charlie-Brown]

Is Craven telling the truth though ?

 

He's lied at least once already and he was prepared to stand-by and watch Utd concede a pen which he has admitted he didn't think should have been awarded.

 

Craven gave his newspaper interview for no fee, in it he explains why he didn't attempt to over-rule McDonalds decision because 1) he though McDonald was better positioned and 2) in a previous match at pittodrie McDonald had over-ruled him on penalty decision and subsequently been proven correct to deny the penalty award so craven judged him to be better placed in this instance and was reluctant to question his decision ...... Craven was the one who exposed the lying - if he hadn't do you think that McDonald or Dallas or Regan would have if their hand wasn't forced by Craven's help in exposing the attempted cover up and lies.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Craven needs someone else to decide that enough is enough and now is the right time to come clean on other issues. If it's true that many of the less senior officials are unhappy then they need to come out in support now and air their grievances. I can't see it happening in the end but I bet there are a good few sitting thinking about it right now....

 

The SFA really disgust me more than I can possibly say. God knows why I'm surprised at their abysmal handling of this one, it's not like they ever manage to get anything right...

 

 

This.

[Lovecraft]

I just hope Craven recorded his chat with Hugh.

 

Or someone manages to get hold of the call from the side of the SFA, which will have been recorded.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Craven gave his newspaper interview for no fee, in it he explains why he didn't attempt to over-rule McDonalds decision because 1) he though McDonald was better positioned and 2) in a previous match at pittodrie McDonald had over-ruled him on penalty decision and subsequently been proven correct to deny the penalty award so craven judged him to be better placed in this instance and was reluctant to question his decision ...... Craven was the one who exposed the lying - if he hadn't do you think that McDonald or Dallas or Regan would have if their hand wasn't forced by Craven's help in exposing the attempted cover up and lies.

 

According to DM he informed Craven he was going to tell Dallas what happened - why didn't Craven do this ?

 

Tbh CB - they are all as bad as each other and they all need to go.

 

The member clubs of the SFA need to demand a meeting and give a vote of no confidence to the Refereeing committee and as the OF have done nothing but moan over the past 12 months about Refs they will have to go along with all the clubs who aren't happy with the situation which means for the first tim in a very long time all the clubs will be pulling in the same direction.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Craven needs someone else to decide that enough is enough and now is the right time to come clean on other issues. If it's true that many of the less senior officials are unhappy then they need to come out in support now and air their grievances. I can't see it happening in the end but I bet there are a good few sitting thinking about it right now....

 

 

There will no doubt be the odd incident which has been swept under the carpet.

 

But over the years there have been hundreds of former SFA officials who could have made a fortune by going public with the murky secrets that we all hope/think that are hiding behind the doors of the SFA.

 

It's begs the question - why has nobody ever came forward, told their story and made the remainder of their lives that little bit more comfortable ?

 

Out of all the men who give up their Saturdays to run around being shouted at by a bunch of nutters, surely one of them must have felt enough guilt to reveal all and put a stop to the corruption ?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Anyone who can't see a cover-up in progress here is absolutely blind.

 

 

[redm]

According to DM he informed Craven he was going to tell Dallas what happened - why didn't Craven do this ?

 

Tbh CB - they are all as bad as each other and they all need to go.

 

The member clubs of the SFA need to demand a meeting and give a vote of no confidence to the Refereeing committee and as the OF have done nothing but moan over the past 12 months about Refs they will have to go along with all the clubs who aren't happy with the situation which means for the first tim in a very long time all the clubs will be pulling in the same direction.

 

They probably are all as bad as each other. The most worrying thing to come out of this is the perceived acceptance of this sort of behaviour and the way in which it seems to have become normal practice for the officials. I don't doubt that Craven will have had his own (perhaps more selfish) reasons for chucking in the towel and going public but regardless of what these reasons are, the outcome was public scrutiny of some description and that far outweighs the relevance of his personal motivations imo. Therefore, for me, Craven is the good guy...regardless of what happens....

 

Do they really think that anyone will be remotely fooled by their attempts to paint Craven as the lone bad guy in this scenario? Honestly....

[Drylaw Hearts]

They probably are all as bad as each other. The most worrying thing to come out of this is the perceived acceptance of this sort of behaviour and the way in which it seems to have become normal practice for the officials. I don't doubt that Craven will have had his own (perhaps more selfish) reasons for chucking in the towel and going public but regardless of what these reasons are, the outcome was public scrutiny of some description and that far outweighs the relevance of his personal motivations imo. Therefore, for me, Craven is the good guy...regardless of what happens....

 

Do they really think that anyone will be remotely fooled by their attempts to paint Craven as the lone bad guy in this scenario? Honestly....

 

They would have to be the best judge of characters in the world to only be able to employ dodgy sorts.

 

Also...

 

I'm glad they're now dragging this out and slinging mud at each other as the longer it goes on the less likely those involved will be able to stick around.

 

 

Re : Craven

 

I think he's anything but the good guy - he's as bad as the other 2 as he was quite willing to stand back and watch while Celtic were about to handed an unfair opportunity to win the game.

[hawaii]

Harry Redknapp in today's Guardian talking about the Man Utd "goal" and officials in England

 

"I never questioned the integrity [of officials]," Redknapp said. "What I said is that when they get in their room, and I've said it before, that they would always make sure that they sing from the same hymn sheet. Anyone that thinks that doesn't happen, they shouldn't be in football or involved in the game.

 

"I've been in it long enough. They always come up with the same. The linesman isn't going to say: 'I told him it was handball and he should have disallowed it.' They'll all come up with the same ? there'll be an answer. Even though Mr Clattenburg, in private, has said to somebody that I know, for a fact, that he made a mess, really. When the reports go in, all the assistants back up Mark Clattenburg. They all work together.

 

"They all get together and make a decision, it's a fact. If it's a fact which people don't like, what can I do about that? It's a fact. They'll make sure they're saying the same thing. They must have discussed it and decided to go with the referee."

 

So if Harry is saying that is what happens in England then why do we STILL have people in Scotland who think the game is whiter than white??

[Cal_]

anybody involved in this is corrupt to the core

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztXYNmFen6s

 

Hold at 52s

 

Ref goes for his pocket as soon as he sees miko

[Drylaw Hearts]

Hold at 52s

 

Ref goes for his pocket as soon as he sees miko

 

Probably to book him.

 

It was the barge into Davies that got him the Red Card.

[redm]

They would have to be the best judge of characters in the world to only be able to employ dodgy sorts.

 

Also...

 

I'm glad they're now dragging this out and slinging mud at each other as the longer it goes on the less likely those involved will be able to stick around.

 

 

Re : Craven

 

I think he's anything but the good guy - he's as bad as the other 2 as he was quite willing to stand back and watch while Celtic were about to handed an unfair opportunity to win the game.

 

You don't have to be dodgy to be complicit though, just quiet. Institutional or organisational behaviours are very difficult to change. My guess is that people who are employed as officials are probably very proud to be part of the football community - whether they're proud of how their particular division works or not - and would be very reluctant to give it up, no matter how bad things are. Keeping schtum and staying away from trouble probably makes their lives a little easier and allows them to continue doing a job they enjoy.

 

Like you say, we're all sitting watching and waiting for someone to do the deed and bust the whole thing wide open....can you imagine the repercussions of doing that? The enormous pressure and notoriety? It would be massive. Even those who think they have watertight tales to tell and evidence to back it up would be absolutely bricking it in case they were turned upon and the usual closing of ranks/outright lying thing happened. You'd need a couple of people to get together and be more organised and have more access to resources than the entire SFA - how impossible would that be?

[bean counter]

You don't have to be dodgy to be complicit though, just quiet. Institutional or organisational behaviours are very difficult to change. My guess is that people who are employed as officials are probably very proud to be part of the football community - whether they're proud of how their particular division works or not - and would be very reluctant to give it up, no matter how bad things are. Keeping schtum and staying away from trouble probably makes their lives a little easier and allows them to continue doing a job they enjoy.

 

Like you say, we're all sitting watching and waiting for someone to do the deed and bust the whole thing wide open....can you imagine the repercussions of doing that? The enormous pressure and notoriety? It would be massive. Even those who think they have watertight tales to tell and evidence to back it up would be absolutely bricking it in case they were turned upon and the usual closing of ranks/outright lying thing happened. You'd need a couple of people to get together and be more organised and have more access to resources than the entire SFA - how impossible would that be?

 

It would be very difficult for a ref\linesman to come out and say Mr X was always doing this or that, because one side of the Uglies would then accuse Mr X of favouring the other side with all the possible bad consequences that that could bring. Is there really anyone in the game that is so hacked off at the establishment that they would consciously put a colleague in that position?

[Cal_]

Probably to book him.

 

It was the barge into Davies that got him the Red Card.

 

Book him for what?

[redm]

It would be very difficult for a ref\linesman to come out and say Mr X was always doing this or that, because one side of the Uglies would then accuse Mr X of favouring the other side with all the possible bad consequences that that could bring. Is there really anyone in the game that is so hacked off at the establishment that they would consciously put a colleague in that position?

 

Exactly. It wouldn't be the organisation that they attacked, it would be individuals within it. They probably can't figure out a way to make it worthwhile.

[Drylaw Hearts]

You don't have to be dodgy to be complicit though, just quiet. Institutional or organisational behaviours are very difficult to change. My guess is that people who are employed as officials are probably very proud to be part of the football community - whether they're proud of how their particular division works or not - and would be very reluctant to give it up, no matter how bad things are. Keeping schtum and staying away from trouble probably makes their lives a little easier and allows them to continue doing a job they enjoy.

 

Like you say, we're all sitting watching and waiting for someone to do the deed and bust the whole thing wide open....can you imagine the repercussions of doing that? The enormous pressure and notoriety? It would be massive. Even those who think they have watertight tales to tell and evidence to back it up would be absolutely bricking it in case they were turned upon and the usual closing of ranks/outright lying thing happened. You'd need a couple of people to get together and be more organised and have more access to resources than the entire SFA - how impossible would that be?

 

All it takes is just one person out of the hundreds that have passed through the doors of the SFA to have gone to the media and blown the story but nobody ever has.

 

There have been people who have leaked government documents, MI6 secrets etc etc but we can't find a single person to drop the bombshell we're all waiting on.

 

Steven Craven has started the ball rolling by speaking out and he now has to decide whether or not he will counter the claims by Hugh Dallas.

 

If there is a bigger story to tell, Craven is perfectly placed to tell it so I suppose we'll find out soon enough.